Anabolic Pump -- A Review by bitterplacebo

bitterplacebo

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Well, like I stated, i would market it as a great product while leaving out the part about the non responders ...

For example:

45 people take product X, while 15 had no response, 30 had great responses, so Im swinging on those 30, not the 15. I am not telling a flat out lie when I say that 30 people had great results using product x, that is the flat out truth.

We have no idea what the drive was behind Ap having an ad such as the one mentioned in the mag. My guess would be to spark interest, maybe? But i am positive that the effects/results which the write up mentions is based on the very BEST responders of the product while leaving out the ones who had no response or very little. It's not fraudulent; they just didn't include certain information

I've had a few people who have tried some of my marketing tactics and products and have had great success selling the ideas behind them. Some have made a couple of hundred a month, some have pulled in $4,000 in a month, yet when I market any idea it goes out as "make 2,000 a month working 2 hrs a day" or something that catches the eye such as that, but only because I know people that have ACTUALLY done it.

True, it's rare, and I've only seen it happen, like, once or twice, but it has still happened. So it gets marketed as the "next big deal"
I think I understand what you're saying pretty well. And it comes down to people not thinking they're lying as long as they don't tell the whole story.

So you if you look at the official writeup for AP:
USPLabs Sports Supplements - Anabolic Pump

There's nothing about "non-responders." There's all the good stuff, though. Either highlighted, italicized, in bold, underlined, in all CAPS, or maybe some combination of these. One would have to investigate further and perhaps look around forums in order to get the full story.

Also, the bar charts are incredibly vague -- the y-axis aren't even labeled, the descriptions don't seem to always match up completely, yet striking differences are shown between AP and control, which looks like great supporting evidence.

Anyway, I take it that it's pretty much accepted now that the marketing is shady?

Mullet, I didn't completely take the time to try to understand what you were saying about the quantity of bad reviews correlating with backlash against the marketing style. But maybe it would be good to discuss.

Why isn't the marketing/writeup changed if there's such a backlash against it? Obviously, there's a disparity between what is said in the marketing and what we're told in person. Why not synchronize a little? You guys would probably be spending less time explaining "non-responders"/"intricacies"/"myriads of energy complexes"/etc over and over again if it just said right there in the writeup.
 
Mulletsoldier

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Mullet, I didn't completely take the time to try to understand what you were saying about the quantity of bad reviews correlating with backlash against the marketing style. But maybe it would be good to discuss.

Why isn't the marketing/writeup changed if there's such a backlash against it? Obviously, there's a disparity between what is said in the marketing and what we're told in person. Why not synchronize a little? You guys would probably be spending less time explaining "non-responders"/"intricacies"/"myriads of energy complexes"/etc over and over again if it just said right there in the writeup.
This debate surfaces over and over again, and it invariably stems from one factor: The person raising it does not own a business, has never owned a business, and possibly cannot reconcile their personal moral opinions with the purpose of marketing.

Our marketing does not deviate from normative consumer marketing in any way; you are simply given a direct forum to express your grievances with it here. Do you really think drinking Budweiser beer is going to make you sophisticated, suave, and the life of the party? Do you really feel driving a Mazda Mini-Van - pictured skidding across the sand in the desert - is going to make your hair stand on end? Do you really think any one toothpaste, toothbrush, or face cream is different from any other?

Despite answering "no" to all of the above, many of those companies offer a very solid product - the marketing, as in this case, serves its purpose: To drive consumers towards purchasing the product. In that respect, our marketing achieves its purpose well. Now, the fundamental question; do I want people to buy our product? Yes! Of course I do, for several reasons. Obviously, personal growth is a part of this equation, I would be lying if I said it was not. That being said, I also wish for people to purchase USP Labs products, because I firmly believe in their ability to assist users in reaching and surpassing their goals - whatever they may be.
 
Royd The Noyd

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Airborne doest really prevent colds....

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/04/news/companies/airborne_settlement/?postversion=2008030413

(the highlighted portion was of interest)

Airborne settles lawsuit for $23.3 million
The herbal supplement firm will settle class action lawsuit that alleges false advertising; money will be refunded to consumers, non-profit advocacy group says.

EMAIL | PRINT | DIGG | RSS
March 4 2008: 1:34 PM EST


NEW YORK (CNN) -- Airborne - the herbal supplement company that once claimed to help fight off colds - will pay $23.3 million to settle a class-action lawsuit brought against the company for false advertising, according to one of the groups that joined the suit.

The Center for Science in the Public Interest, a non-profit advocacy group, said the company will refund money to consumers who bought Airborne's product. It will pay for advertisements in major publications instructing consumers on how to get their money refunded.

"There's no credible evidence that what's in Airborne can prevent colds or protect you from a germy environment," said CSPI Senior nutritionist David Schardt. "Airborne is basically on overpriced, run-of-the-mill vitamin pill that's been cleverly, but deceptively, marketed."

According to the company's Web site, Airborne was created by second-grade teacher, Victoria Knight-McDowell, who "studied the benefits herbal therapies used in Eastern Medicine." The site says Airborne "boosts the immune system with seven herbal extracts and a proprietary blend of vitamins, electrolytes, amino acids and antioxidants."

A recorded message at the toll-free number of the class-action settlement administrator said that Airborne Health Inc. has admitted no wrongdoing. Airborne Inc., Airborne Health Inc. and Knight-McDowell Labs are among the defendants in the class action lawsuit, filed in the Central District of California in U.S. District Court.

"Defendants deny any wrongdoing or illegal conduct," the message says, "but have agreed to settle the litigation."

A hearing to consider final approval of the settlement is scheduled for June 16.

Airborne changed their advertising campaign when a plaintiff filed suit against the company in March 2006.

That came after an ABC News report disclosed that the company's clinical trials were not conducted by doctors or scientists, but instead carried out by two laypeople.

Advertisements stopped mentioning the study and cold-curing claims and instead touted claims that it helped boost the body's immune systems.

In late 2006 the CSPI joined the suit as co-counsel against Airborne and in 2007 the Federal Trade Commission and an assembly of state attorney generals began investigating the firm's cold-curing claims professed since its creation in 1999.

Customers interested in more information about how to recieve a refund should log onto www.airbornehealthsettlement.com.
What does this have to do with USP Labs? Nothing, just felt like posting it as an example of marketing crossing that imaginary line.
 
EasyEJL

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Our marketing does not deviate from normative consumer marketing in any way; you are simply given a direct forum to express your grievances with it here. Do you really think drinking Budweiser beer is going to make you sophisticated, suave, and the life of the party? Do you really feel driving a Mazda Mini-Van - pictured skidding across the sand in the desert - is going to make your hair stand on end? Do you really think any one toothpaste, toothbrush, or face cream is different from any other?
But those are all descriptive, subjective things, not numeric specific measurable things like

Significantly increase muscle mass without changing your diet - Most people gain at least 7.3 pounds of muscle in the first 14 days taking Anabolic-Pump™.
Dramatically reduce body fat while gaining layers of muscle - Previously impossible without Anabolic Steroids - Not anymore due to this incredible extract - Average fat loss in our test subjects is an amazing 5.2 lbs in first 14 days!
There is quite a difference. If Budweiser says their beer has X calories, or Mazda states X miles per gallon, then those are accurate realistic numbers, and they can be held legally liable if they are not

You yourself have stated (indirectly) that the claim "Most people gain at least 7.3 pounds of muscle in the first 14 days taking Anabolic-Pump™. " is physically impossible as there is no way for the body to create 7.3lbs of muscle in 14 days, I beleive the number you gave as maximal was .5lbs per week.
 
Mulletsoldier

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But those are all descriptive, subjective things, not numeric specific measurable things like

There is quite a difference. If Budweiser says their beer has X calories, or Mazda states X miles per gallon, then those are accurate realistic numbers, and they can be held legally liable if they are not
The premise is a fundamental marketing strategy - directly trigger a desired emotional response. Simply because one is quantitative and the other is qualitative, at least in my opinion, does not separate them as you are doing here. Any Sociology of the Media, Popular Culture, Marketing Strategy or Psychology of Advertising/Media course will reveal the ubiquitousness of this phenomena; as I said, venting occurs more here because this forum facilitates it.

You yourself have stated (indirectly) that the claim "Most people gain at least 7.3 pounds of muscle in the first 14 days taking Anabolic-Pump™. " is physically impossible as there is no way for the body to create 7.3lbs of muscle in 14 days, I beleive the number you gave as maximal was .5lbs per week.
True, but I am unsure why you are directing this concern to me, though? If you are trying to turn this into that Anonymous thread: Craft me into a pariah for our marketing, I am not interested. But, this is where you back me into a corner to disagree with a company principle, right? lol.
 
smn1

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SMN1, so what your saying is that since you started ap that you have lost about 3 lbs? You were at 153 when you began, now your at 150?

You've done a great job since january. I'll say that much for you. What were you using from January-June, just a solid diet?
I will try and sum this up.
First of the year I wanted to get in better shape, you know 41 looking a little out of shape at 190lbs.

With the solid diet I lost an average 8-10lbs a month until my body leveled out at 150lbs. I have maintained the 150lbs since June.

I have maintained the exact same diet for the last 8 months.

In May I joined this site and started reading post. Ordered some AP & Recreate in June.
What I noticed was that the combo of AP and recreate helped me leanout even more plus I started seeing more LBM, all without doing any Cardio and with the exact same diet.

So I weighted 150lbs before AP & recreate and I still weighted 150lbs after AP & recreate( no change in weight) but with more definition and a little more LMB, while doing zero cardio....

The last two pics I posted are both at the exact same weight of 150lbs.

Today I weight 153lbs and the +3 pounds increase is while I have added Prime for the last 2 weeks. This is how I feel the products have worked for me.
 
SFRANGER

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"You've done a great job since january. I'll say that much for you. What were you using from January-June, just a solid diet?"


That was freaking...hilarious.
 
EasyEJL

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True, but I am unsure why you are directing this concern to me, though? If you are trying to turn this into that Anonymous thread: Craft me into a pariah for our marketing, I am not interested. But, this is where you back me into a corner to disagree with a company principle, right? lol.
i suppose i am not entirely surprised to see you consider my request for your honesty to be "backing you into a corner". What is not physically possible is not physically possible. The claim might as well be "most users in our AP test group were able to fly and speak 17 languages in 14 days" as it would be just as impossible as adding 7.3 lbs of muscle in that time. If applied nutriceutical's marketing deparment made a claim that drive caused "most people to gain 7.3lbs of muscle and loose 5.6lbs of fat in the first 2 weeks" i wouldnt hesitate to let people know it is physically impossible if asked.

I don't dispute at all that all of USP's products have reasonably been shown to have some level of value in a significant % of users. I personally loved powerfull's original bulk + original formulation, the 1-c and later powerful are decent as well (not as good IMO). pslin has significant feeling effect as well, but i've never used it consistently enough to be able to say for sure what its either ergogenic or fat loss capabilities are. i am considering doing a 2 month solid consistent cycle of of just to see. Prime has potential, at least its claims of "4.29 lbs increase in body weight 6.37 lbs increase in lean body mass 2.08 lbs decrease in fat mass" in 30 days is physically possible, unlike AP's claims. And its specific to lean body mass rather than muscle. so much more reasonable. And focus dirt as well sound like a realistic and reasonable product.
 
EasyEJL

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I will try and sum this up.
First of the year I wanted to get in better shape, you know 41 looking a little out of shape at 190lbs.

With the solid diet I lost an average 8-10lbs a month until my body leveled out at 150lbs. I have maintained the 150lbs since June.

I have maintained the exact same diet for the last 8 months.

In May I joined this site and started reading post. Ordered some AP & Recreate in June.
What I noticed was that the combo of AP and recreate helped me leanout even more plus I started seeing more LBM, all without doing any Cardio and with the exact same diet.

So I weighted 150lbs before AP & recreate and I still weighted 150lbs after AP & recreate( no change in weight) but with more definition and a little more LMB, while doing zero cardio....

The last two pics I posted are both at the exact same weight of 150lbs.

Today I weight 153lbs and the +3 pounds increase is while I have added Prime for the last 2 weeks. This is how I feel the products have worked for me.
Ah ok, so in just at 150, a month after the start picture, you started AP + recreate, and that after picture is at 150 as well but in late aug/early september? and now since starting prime you are at 153?

I'm still a little confused on your diet. The exact same diet that took you from 190-150 has maintained you at 150 over the last 3 months? No change in caloric intake? was there a change in cardio or something?
 
Mulletsoldier

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i suppose i am not entirely surprised to see you consider my request for your honesty to be "backing you into a corner". What is not physically possible is not physically possible. The claim might as well be "most users in our AP test group were able to fly and speak 17 languages in 14 days" as it would be just as impossible as adding 7.3 lbs of muscle in that time. If applied nutriceutical's marketing deparment made a claim that drive caused "most people to gain 7.3lbs of muscle and loose 5.6lbs of fat in the first 2 weeks" i wouldnt hesitate to let people know it is physically impossible if asked.
And I am most definitely not surprised to see you here, in this thread, generally antagonizing and being subversively derisive. I realize due to our prior discussions, you have developed somewhat of a Napoleon Complex, and often try to direct it at me. That being said, it is not physiologically possible. That better?

I don't dispute at all that all of USP's products have reasonably been shown to have some level of value in a significant % of users. I personally loved powerfull's original bulk + original formulation, the 1-c and later powerful are decent as well (not as good IMO). pslin has significant feeling effect as well, but i've never used it consistently enough to be able to say for sure what its either ergogenic or fat loss capabilities are. i am considering doing a 2 month solid consistent cycle of of just to see. Prime has potential, at least its claims of "4.29 lbs increase in body weight 6.37 lbs increase in lean body mass 2.08 lbs decrease in fat mass" in 30 days is physically possible, unlike AP's claims. And its specific to lean body mass rather than muscle. so much more reasonable. And focus dirt as well sound like a realistic and reasonable product.
Okay.
 
smn1

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Ah ok, so in just at 150, a month after the start picture, you started AP + recreate, and that after picture is at 150 as well but in late aug/early september? and now since starting prime you are at 153?

I'm still a little confused on your diet. The exact same diet that took you from 190-150 has maintained you at 150 over the last 3 months? No change in caloric intake? was there a change in cardio or something?
That is correct on the time line.... I have maintained the exact same diet since Jan until today( one day I eat about 2500 cal, next day about 2800 cal, next day 2500 and so on, it keeps my body guessing ) . I have leveled out at 150lbs. I no longer eat any breads, pasta, rice, potatoes, etc....I get most of my carbs from oatmeal, veggies and whole grain cereal and a little bit of fruit. I workout 7 days a week, abs every 2days and I do zero cardio. I just do all my lifting in the 15 rep range. I eat 3 solid food meals a day plus about 4-5 shakes a day, eating every 2-3 hrs all the way until I go to bed...
 
EasyEJL

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hmm maybe its time for me to give up on low carb then, and give moderate carbs a shot as part of the cut. i've only gone moderate carbs when I was on bulk phases, or cheat/carbup days. That has been my story for the past 2 years almost.
 
Steveoph

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hmm maybe its time for me to give up on low carb then, and give moderate carbs a shot as part of the cut. i've only gone moderate carbs when I was on bulk phases, or cheat/carbup days. That has been my story for the past 2 years almost.
Carbs timed properly are great IMO. I would stress HIIT cardio to help you cut down Easy, and having a solid omelet about 2-1.5 hrs pre-bed keeps me full all night long, and helps. I find eating immediately pre-bed always finds it way onto my gut.
 
smn1

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hmm maybe its time for me to give up on low carb then, and give moderate carbs a shot as part of the cut. i've only gone moderate carbs when I was on bulk phases, or cheat/carbup days. That has been my story for the past 2 years almost.
And dont forget to take your Anabolic pump...I take mine only 2 times aday, 15min-30min before 75-100g of carbs, anything less than 70g of carbs I dont use the AP....
 
Mulletsoldier

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Therefor you would agree that AP does not work as claimed?

"most people to gain 7.3lbs of muscle and loose 5.6lbs of fat in the first 2 weeks"
I would say it is unlikely it will meet that particular claim; that being said, the physiology which that claim is purported to work through is most definitely factual. I have displayed as such numerous, numerous times.

Further, may I ask an open question? Why is it you guys (herein referring to general posters on the board) assume I create our marketing? Have you considered, for a moment, I do not create our marketing? As I stated, these types of questions are directed to me in a lose-lose manner, which is not fair. I deal with the PHYSIOLOGY of our products; that is both my occupation and primary concern.
 
bitterplacebo

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This debate surfaces over and over again, and it invariably stems from one factor: The person raising it does not own a business, has never owned a business, and possibly cannot reconcile their personal moral opinions with the purpose of marketing.

Our marketing does not deviate from normative consumer marketing in any way; you are simply given a direct forum to express your grievances with it here. Do you really think drinking Budweiser beer is going to make you sophisticated, suave, and the life of the party? Do you really feel driving a Mazda Mini-Van - pictured skidding across the sand in the desert - is going to make your hair stand on end? Do you really think any one toothpaste, toothbrush, or face cream is different from any other?

Despite answering "no" to all of the above, many of those companies offer a very solid product - the marketing, as in this case, serves its purpose: To drive consumers towards purchasing the product. In that respect, our marketing achieves its purpose well. Now, the fundamental question; do I want people to buy our product? Yes! Of course I do, for several reasons. Obviously, personal growth is a part of this equation, I would be lying if I said it was not. That being said, I also wish for people to purchase USP Labs products, because I firmly believe in their ability to assist users in reaching and surpassing their goals - whatever they may be.
Your argument is: it's alright to do it because everyone else does it.
Is that right?

Or probably the way it would be put in terms of being a business is: it's *necessary* to do it because everyone else does it.
maybe?

What's fine about the types of marketing examples you gave is that it was left up to the consumer to make some assumptions about what was not overtly stated by the company.

You can't have a company issue an advertisement that clearly makes a claim, then wait for consumers to raise a question in order for a company representative to tell them "the ad wasn't completely true."

This seems to be precisely the case for at least the one example Easy just gave. If we point out the places where there is a discrepancy between advertisements and what we're told on a forum, would you be able to help us get it changed?

Hope you understand this isn't about venting, it's just trying to make things better.
 

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That is correct on the time line.... I have maintained the exact same diet since Jan until today( one day I eat about 2500 cal, next day about 2800 cal, next day 2500 and so on, it keeps my body guessing ) . I have leveled out at 150lbs. I no longer eat any breads, pasta, rice, potatoes, etc....I get most of my carbs from oatmeal, veggies and whole grain cereal and a little bit of fruit. I workout 7 days a week, abs every 2days and I do zero cardio. I just do all my lifting in the 15 rep range. I eat 3 solid food meals a day plus about 4-5 shakes a day, eating every 2-3 hrs all the way until I go to bed...
Sorry man, I was striking an attempt at being comical when I asked what have you used since January; it was the fact that there was a bit of confusion, for me and a few others, on the initial post about weight gain and loss.

So, essentially, you have maintained the 150 while maintaining the calories, and have added 3lbs since introducing your system to PRIME.

I think were some people got derailed was the point to where you ate xxx cals and dropped 40lbs, but were able to maintain a lower weight with said cals, and steady, consistently.

I guess people are thinking that you would have had to change up your diet to maintain at 150 vs dropping at 190. This "tweaking" of diet would change the chances of whether ap was beneficial or not.

Im a bit clearer on the issue now.


Posted by Royd
What does this have to do with USP Labs? Nothing, just felt like posting it as an example of marketing crossing that imaginary line.
That's funny, but all they had to do was change about 10 words and they would have been fine. Plus, why would someone sue them if they offered money back? All one must do is request for their money back if said product is not effective, especially when they stated a money back guarantee.

Posted by bitterplacebo
I think I understand what you're saying pretty well. And it comes down to people not thinking they're lying as long as they don't tell the whole story.
Yeah, I can not say it is the CORRECT way of doing business, but it is not at all illegal. For comical relief, was it not D!ckTracy? Just the facts and none of the story?
 
Royd The Noyd

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I would say it is unlikely it will meet that particular claim; that being said, the physiology which that claim is purported to work through is most definitely factual. I have displayed as such numerous, numerous times.
Yes I would agree.

Further, may I ask an open question? Why is it you guys (herein referring to general posters on the board) assume I create our marketing? Have you considered, for a moment, I do not create our marketing? As I stated, these types of questions are directed to me in a lose-lose manner, which is not fair. I deal with the PHYSIOLOGY of our products; that is both my occupation and primary concern.
I dont think anyone assumes that you do? However you do represent the company. And from what I know those who create the marketing materials do not post here and are not here for our questions. So we direct them towards you...or to anyone in general.
 
bitterplacebo

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I would say it is unlikely it will meet that particular claim; that being said, the physiology which that claim is purported to work through is most definitely factual. I have displayed as such numerous, numerous times.

Further, may I ask an open question? Why is it you guys (herein referring to general posters on the board) assume I create our marketing? Have you considered, for a moment, I do not create our marketing? As I stated, these types of questions are directed to me in a lose-lose manner, which is not fair. I deal with the PHYSIOLOGY of our products; that is both my occupation and primary concern.
I was assuming you'd be able to try and help us reach the people who are in charge of marketing.
 
Dr Packenwood

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You could leave the marketing as "Most users gain 7.3lbs in 14 days" and include a gunny sack full of 3/8" ball bearings so users could ingest a hand full at feedings.:think:
 
Mulletsoldier

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Your argument is: it's alright to do it because everyone else does it.
Is that right?

Or probably the way it would be put in terms of being a business is: it's *necessary* to do it because everyone else does it.
maybe?
I would not make the first case, as I am not morphing this into a normative value/moral argument; you are. I recognize the necessity of marketing in each and every single consumer-based industry on the planet: Our company would not thrive without it.

If you would, however, I would appreciate your elucidation of all the very most profitable supplement companies who do not market.

...Hope you understand this isn't about venting, it's just trying to make things better...
Please understand I am trying to the utmost of my capabilities to remain calm and professional, but allow me to repeat this one further time: I do not directly construct our marketing; you are necessarily directing your concerns to the wrong avenue.

I often find the pack mentality on these forums fascinating: "He is a USP Labs employee, he must be directly and overtly involved in every single process, and by virtue of that assumption, we should unload on him!". Unfortunately, being a large business, USP Labs has many employees, and while my scope of influence is relatively large, I do not directly control this particular department.
 
Frank Reynolds

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.

Further, may I ask an open question? Why is it you guys (herein referring to general posters on the board) assume I create our marketing? Have you considered, for a moment, I do not create our marketing? As I stated, these types of questions are directed to me in a lose-lose manner, which is not fair. I deal with the PHYSIOLOGY of our products; that is both my occupation and primary concern.
I don't think you write it at all, but you still represent it. It is being "guilty by association" It is something you stand for, and are a representative of.

As for the marketing you can clearly see the difference between this style of marketing, and that of large corporations(budweiser, bmw,GM, etc) This type of marketing is very similar to INFOMERCIAL marketing. You are selling people on a hope, and dream, that they finally found that product that is going to change their life.. Exactly like these "get out of debt" "learn to sell real estate" infomercials.

At the end of the day, in most people, it is a false hope, and false dream.

Just my take-
 
EasyEJL

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I dont think any of us believe at all that you are involved in the marketing, to some extent I guess we are looking for a bit more material to show that you and the physiological evidence you present is more believable than the rest of the public face your company puts on. If we are to count on you for answers, we need to feel confident that those answers aren't given in the same context as the ads - ie a ficticious pitch. if i'm going to go on a 2 month cycle of pslin and prime as part of a future PCT and spend the $200 on USP products and ask you questions during it, i'd like to know that your goal isn't just to support the sale of product and that i'll get honest realistic feedback. Not just for me to be berated for "using it wrong" or get told to "buy a 3rd or 4th bottle to see full effect".
 
Mulletsoldier

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I was assuming you'd be able to try and help us reach the people who are in charge of marketing.
Do you believe the ownership at USP Labs is inept to the concerns of the consumer? Quite the opposite, in fact. I assure you, they are quite cognizant of the opinions around our marketing; however, as I have said, marketing has one, primary purpose: To drive sales - in this respect, the ownership obviously has a purposeful and successful business plan. Do you feel they would change the tactics which have taken them from an internet-only, board-supported brand, to a nationally distributed brand in both GNC and Vitamin Shoppe? Honestly?

As I have said, I am glad this plan is fruitful, as I am more than 100% confident in the physiology of our products!
 
Mulletsoldier

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I dont think any of us believe at all that you are involved in the marketing, to some extent I guess we are looking for a bit more material to show that you and the physiological evidence you present is more believable than the rest of the public face your company puts on. If we are to count on you for answers, we need to feel confident that those answers aren't given in the same context as the ads - ie a ficticious pitch. if i'm going to go on a 2 month cycle of pslin and prime as part of a future PCT and spend the $200 on USP products and ask you questions during it, i'd like to know that your goal isn't just to support the sale of product and that i'll get honest realistic feedback. Not just for me to be berated for "using it wrong" or get told to "buy a 3rd or 4th bottle to see full effect".
If you would, please search through my posts and find the erroneous information I have spread about the physiology of our products. In fact, please find my posts that cannot be verified by the body of publicly available research on our ingredients.

My knowledge of our product's MOA is utterly distinct from our marketing. However, I have littered this board and others with how AP, and all of our other products work. You are welcome to display my deceit in that respect.
 

hardknock

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Do you believe the ownership at USP Labs is inept to the concerns of the consumer? Quite the opposite, in fact. I assure you, they are quite cognizant of the opinions around our marketing; however, as I have said, marketing has one, primary purpose: To drive sales - in this respect, the ownership obviously has a purposeful and successful business plan. Do you feel they would change the tactics which have taken them from an internet-only, board-supported brand, to a nationally distributed brand in both GNC and Vitamin Shoppe? Honestly?

As I have said, I am glad this plan is fruitful, as I am more than 100% confident in the physiology of our products!
I actually do agree with all of the previous mentioned as I do a nice amount of marketing with internet marketing, as Ive stated.

Also, I do believe that people direct these questions towards you because, usually, more times than not, you are the first representative of the company to pop into the threads and respond to a poster who is claiming either A+ or D-.
 
Mulletsoldier

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I don't think you write it at all, but you still represent it. It is being "guilty by association" It is something you stand for, and are a representative of.

As for the marketing you can clearly see the difference between this style of marketing, and that of large corporations(budweiser, bmw,GM, etc) This type of marketing is very similar to INFOMERCIAL marketing. You are selling people on a hope, and dream, that they finally found that product that is going to change their life.. Exactly like these "get out of debt" "learn to sell real estate" infomercials.

At the end of the day, in most people, it is a false hope, and false dream.

Just my take-
And if one is an employee of McDonald's, they necessarily represent the promotion of obesity, coronary heart disease, the elimination of fair competition, and dictating agricultural supply and demand chain? By your description of association, I would assume so.
 

hardknock

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I don't think you write it at all, but you still represent it. It is being "guilty by association" It is something you stand for, and are a representative of.

As for the marketing you can clearly see the difference between this style of marketing, and that of large corporations(budweiser, bmw,GM, etc) This type of marketing is very similar to INFOMERCIAL marketing. You are selling people on a hope, and dream, that they finally found that product that is going to change their life.. Exactly like these "get out of debt" "learn to sell real estate" infomercials.

At the end of the day, in most people, it is a false hope, and false dream.

Just my take-
I can only say that my right hand man has done it successfully for about one year (made a nice routine income), then after that it all basically became stagnant.
Yet, he still pulls in a decent amount of money from his real estate properties; does he make millions, nope, but he does make a salary comparable to his full time job.
Does it work? For most, NOPE, but for him, yes.
 
Frank Reynolds

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Does it work? For most, NOPE, but for him, yes.
Exactly my point..

And if one is an employee of McDonald's, they necessarily represent the promotion of obesity, coronary heart disease, the elimination of fair competition, and dictating agricultural supply and demand chain? By your description of association, I would assume so.
You are DIRECTLY associated with the people making said marketing.. You defend them, and fight their battles. When they make these absurd claims, it is YOU that has to deal with all this backlash.

I'd wager if walked into any Mcdonalds in the US, and told whoever is behind the counter that i thought their food was fattening, and complete ****, they would more then not, laughingly agree. Why? Because they don't care.
 
Mulletsoldier

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Exactly my point..


You are DIRECTLY associated with the people making said marketing.. You defend them, and fight their battles. When they make these absurd claims, it is YOU that has to deal with all this backlash.

I'd wager if walked into any Mcdonalds in the US, and told whoever is behind the counter that i thought their food was fattening, and complete ****, they would more then not, laughingly agree. Why? Because they don't care.
Now you are muddying the waters. If you told me our products were complete ****, I would tie you up in data so fast your head would spin - but you are not, you are saying you disagree with the marketing. There is a difference.
 
bitterplacebo

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I would not make the first case, as I am not morphing this into a normative value/moral argument; you are. I recognize the necessity of marketing in each and every single consumer-based industry on the planet: Our company would not thrive without it.

If you would, however, I would appreciate your elucidation of all the very most profitable supplement companies who do not market.
I'm not sure about the *very most* profitable companies, but surely there's profitable supplement companies that profit without big advertisements.

I'm guessing here about two of companies I've consistently bought from in the past 2 years:
NOW foods
Nature's Way Vitamins

Please understand I am trying to the utmost of my capabilities to remain calm and professional, but allow me to repeat this one further time: I do not directly construct our marketing; you are necessarily directing your concerns to the wrong avenue.

I often find the pack mentality on these forums fascinating: "He is a USP Labs employee, he must be directly and overtly involved in every single process, and by virtue of that assumption, we should unload on him!". Unfortunately, being a large business, USP Labs has many employees, and while my scope of influence is relatively large, I do not directly control this particular department.
This is clearly not what I asked or suggested of you. Please don't exaggerate. We're just trying to find out if you can help at all with directing us through the right channels.
If you can't, that's fine, I won't mention it again.
 
Rugger

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Now you are muddying the waters. If you told me our products were complete ****, I would tie you up in data so fast your head would spin - but you are not, you are saying you disagree with the marketing. There is a difference.
Can't you just let it end and walk away?
 
Mulletsoldier

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Preemptively, before tempers flare and this discussion degenerates into irrational derogatory remarks, I will say this:

I will direct your concerns to our Marketing Department - and if it appeases the parties concerned herein - I will make suggestions to consolidate the datum pieces, with the advertising pieces. I will in no way guarantee any sort of change, as our ownership runs an exponentially growing company, successful by virtue of these same marketing techniques.
 
bitterplacebo

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Do you believe the ownership at USP Labs is inept to the concerns of the consumer? Quite the opposite, in fact. I assure you, they are quite cognizant of the opinions around our marketing; however, as I have said, marketing has one, primary purpose: To drive sales - in this respect, the ownership obviously has a purposeful and successful business plan. Do you feel they would change the tactics which have taken them from an internet-only, board-supported brand, to a nationally distributed brand in both GNC and Vitamin Shoppe? Honestly?
...
Thanks for your reassurance of the inevitable downward spiral of humanity.

kidding, yo
 
Mulletsoldier

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Can't you just let it end and walk away?
I appreciate your concern, but I am attempting to bring the discussion to a rational and logical conclusion; one which appeases all parties involved. If I were to have exited this thread unannounced - believe me - I would have been accused of denying the issue and so forth.
 
Frank Reynolds

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Now you are muddying the waters. If you told me our products were complete ****, I would tie you up in data so fast your head would spin - but you are not, you are saying you disagree with the marketing. There is a difference.
The point is, you would defend them.

I was just pointing out why everyone is coming to you for answers. It is because you are in direct association, with the people behind this. I know a bunch of us *****ing and moaning on here, isn't going to change anything however. As shady, and ridiculous as your marketing seems, it works, and that is all that matters to USP.
 

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Yes I would agree.



I dont think anyone assumes that you do? However you do represent the company. And from what I know those who create the marketing materials do not post here and are not here for our questions. So we direct them towards you...or to anyone in general.
.. It's kind of weird that Mullet is now basically asking us to stop this bashing towards him, AP and USPlabs, because, well, we, as consumers, crossed the line.. :head: We found a product that's yielded less and less results, and we bring it up with a rep to clarify/verify these OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS!

Initially, Mullet had no problem responding to the threads and discussing the matter, but COME ON PEOPLE, Read from page 1 all the way through page 4, and don't come here an tell me USPlabs are still on the Royal Throne. It's obvious Mullet has seen the AP-grave being dug at the moment, and hence he began wondering 'why do you guys think I AM in control of MARKETING? [implying, 'stop talking to ME, I can't/won't do $hit!] I am very happy about this thread happening, because now I see how other consumers such as myself view this little hoax.

I was banned a while back for discussing AP in a thread (turned sour w/a mod), and this is when I tried to clarify; 'look, if the god damn product says it'll put on 14.2 lbs of muscle, WHILE losing 5+ lbs of FAT - holy $$hiiiiiiiiiiiit - IN TWO WEEEKS !!!! and I have not felt/seen any pumps, visible body changes, no strength gains, no weight gain, no ANYTHING after 2.5 weeks of using it, don't come here an tell me these claims are legit ! OF COURSE, looking at those 'results' and 'reviews', we, as consumers, expect at least traces of these results. I mean, $thi, USPlabs, even MUSCLETECH's Cell Tech meets the weight gains/strength gains they advertise in the ads .. :woohoo:

Mullet, it's become clear to everyone reading this thread, and you agreed to, that the claims on the AP write-up/ads/marketing scheme0 are ridiculously elevated. It literally SOUNDS too good to be true (why go the juice-route, if you have a bottle of AP that can put 15 lbs on your frame in TWO WEEKS!), and it's turned out that in 9/10 instances, AP DOES NOT MEET THE EXPECTATIONS!

USPlabs, I've got an empty bottle left at my place. I can print out my NutraPlanet receipt, and send ya a copy. Let me try out a new bottle of AP and do them at Mullet's carb-dosing/timing/scheduling. $hit, have four of us doubters on here try a USPlabs direct AP bottle. If anyone can PROVIDE an empty/open AP bottle and can show for that it WAS purchased, is there a way to meet the 'get your 100% FULL MONEY back' guarantee?
 
Mulletsoldier

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As shady, and ridiculous as your marketing seems, it works, and that is all that matters to USP.
True. I was and am simply saying, that all that matters to me is that the products work. They do, and I am happy.
 
Mulletsoldier

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.. It's kind of weird that Mullet is now basically asking us to stop this bashing towards him, AP and USPlabs, because, well, we, as consumers, crossed the line.. :head: We found a product that's yielded less and less results, and we bring it up with a rep to clarify/verify these OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS!

Initially, Mullet had no problem responding to the threads and discussing the matter, but COME ON PEOPLE, Read from page 1 all the way through page 4, and don't come here an tell me USPlabs are still on the Royal Throne. It's obvious Mullet has seen the AP-grave being dug at the moment, and hence he began wondering 'why do you guys think I AM in control of MARKETING? [implying, 'stop talking to ME, I can't/won't do $hit!] I am very happy about this thread happening, because now I see how other consumers such as myself view this little hoax.

I was banned a while back for discussing AP in a thread (turned sour w/a mod), and this is when I tried to clarify; 'look, if the god damn product says it'll put on 14.2 lbs of muscle, WHILE losing 5+ lbs of FAT - holy $$hiiiiiiiiiiiit - IN TWO WEEEKS !!!! and I have not felt/seen any pumps, visible body changes, no strength gains, no weight gain, no ANYTHING after 2.5 weeks of using it, don't come here an tell me these claims are legit ! OF COURSE, looking at those 'results' and 'reviews', we, as consumers, expect at least traces of these results. I mean, $thi, USPlabs, even MUSCLETECH's Cell Tech meets the weight gains/strength gains they advertise in the ads .. :woohoo:

Mullet, it's become clear to everyone reading this thread, and you agreed to, that the claims on the AP write-up/ads/marketing scheme0 are ridiculously elevated. It literally SOUNDS too good to be true (why go the juice-route, if you have a bottle of AP that can put 15 lbs on your frame in TWO WEEKS!), and it's turned out that in 9/10 instances, AP DOES NOT MEET THE EXPECTATIONS!

USPlabs, I've got an empty bottle left at my place. I can print out my NutraPlanet receipt, and send ya a copy. Let me try out a new bottle of AP and do them at Mullet's carb-dosing/timing/scheduling. $hit, have four of us doubters on here try a USPlabs direct AP bottle. If anyone can PROVIDE an empty/open AP bottle and can show for that it WAS purchased, is there a way to meet the 'get your 100% FULL MONEY back' guarantee?
In your opinion, what did this poorly worded and juvenile post add to this discussion? One which everybody else appeared to be fine with? I think nothing.

Where did I say to quit venting your frustrations about USP Labs? I simply have told you that I do not directly control the advertising; I then said I will direct your concerns to those who are.

In terms of the AP-grave, that is beyond naive. AP is our biggest seller at both GNC and Vitamin Shoppes, and executives at those respective companies are incredibly surprised at the rate at which this new product is selling. Doubters and non-responders are inevitable (I have stated that too). The comments of a handful of users does not an ending make.
 

vikinginc

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Now you are muddying the waters. If you told me our products were complete ****, I would tie you up in data so fast your head would spin - but you are not, you are saying you disagree with the marketing. There is a difference.
See, that's what you keep doing .. you pop in to new logs/bashings of AP, and you unfold/unleash a charade of mumbo-jumobo jargon, TO, as you mentioned, tie you up in data so fast your head would spin. Yeah, man, you've confused me time and time again. For a while, USPlabs actually had me believe I didn't know how to eat right. HAHAHAH, priceless .. :bruce3:
 
Mulletsoldier

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See, that's what you keep doing .. you pop in to new logs/bashings of AP, and you unfold/unleash a charade of mumbo-jumobo jargon, TO, as you mentioned, tie you up in data so fast your head would spin. Yeah, man, you've confused me time and time again. For a while, USPlabs actually had me believe I didn't know how to eat right. HAHAHAH, priceless .. :bruce3:
Okay.
 
Mulletsoldier

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See, that's what you keep doing .. you pop in to new logs/bashings of AP, and you unfold/unleash a charade of mumbo-jumobo jargon, TO, as you mentioned, tie you up in data so fast your head would spin. Yeah, man, you've confused me time and time again. For a while, USPlabs actually had me believe I didn't know how to eat right. HAHAHAH, priceless .. :bruce3:
Here, viking. This is AP's MOA. Now is your chance to prove my deceit:

Method of Action:
The current literature reflects a dual action of Anabolic Pump: A GU (glucose uptake) effect, displaying a specificity for myocytes, as well as potent anti-lipogenic action, thereby reducing the biosynthesis, differentiation, proliferation, and accumulation of lipids in various forms. The data reflects that each ingredient is achieving these effects by somewhat exclusive pathways; though the exact pathway through which Corosolic Acid and Tannins complete these actions are somewhat unknown. Let us begin with Lagerstroemia, relative to Corosolic Acid and Tannins found within it.
Corosolic Acid:
has demonstrated extremely potent glucose-uptake activity in both human trials [3] as well as rat trials [1, 2, 4, 5, 6]. CA’s MGU (muscle glucose uptake) appears to be regulated by the induction of insulin-reactive cascades, though the exact cascades are currently unclear. It is postulated, that in a manner corollary to Berberine, CA is directly altering response to downstream messengers; thereby altering the catabolic:anabolic response pathway. Further, CA prevents lipid metabolism by directly regulating PPAR-Gamma2 and therefore lipid mRNA expression [1]. PPAR-Gamma2 is part of a nuclear receptor family that has diverse physiological action in the body; however, it is paramount in this respect, as PPAR-y2 directly regulates the distribution of adipose in the humab body – specifically, controlling regulation of adipose storage.
Tannic Acid:
This second compound in Lagerstroemia has shown very potent anti-diabetic activity by way of stimulating glucose uptake in muscle cells and by inhibiting key genes related to fat accumulation [7]. Current data reflects this constituent of LS exerts transcriptional control over PPAR-y2 as well; it achieves this by inhibiting the binding of PPAR-y2 to target enzymes (such as CPT-1). As each product within Anabolic Pump, Tannic Acid directly stimulates GLUT4 translocation itself, without directly inducing Insulin’s release [8]. By which exact mechanism is unknown.
Berberine:
The final compound in question is Phellodendron; or more specifically, Berberine. Berberine is the most interesting of all three compounds, due to its direct regulation of the master regulatory switch of energy transaction within the body: AMPk. AMPk regulates the manner in which the human body synthesizes, and expends energy. It directs the body’s response of extracellular energy mechanisms, in order to meet intracellular demand for energy. AMPk regulates the biosynthesis of plasma triglycerides, FAs, and cholesterol, as well as regulating their proliferation via exerting transcriptional control over PPAR-a and PPAR-y [9. 10] in adipose and striated muscle. It not only inhibits lipid synthesis, and induces lipolysis, thereby decreases triglycerol stores (adipose), but modulates the rate-limiting step to B-Oxidation of FAs: CPT-1. It achieves this by inhibiting malonly-cOa, via malonyl-cOa-decarboxlyase, and ACC, and thereby directly increases levels of CPT-1; the target enzyme of the PPAR-Family, responsible for mitochondrial admission of FAs, and their subsequent oxidation. Further, Berberine mediated AMPk expression induces insulin-independent GLUT4 regulation [9]. The whole body improvement in Insulin Sensitivity derived from Berberine is thought to be a result of mitochondrial respiration inhibition; thereby increasing demand for ATP, subsequent AMPk phosphorylation, and the induction of glycolysis and glycogen replenishment [14]. While Anabolic Pump is often solely conceptualized as a glucose disposal agent, its direct control over lipogenic and energy expenditure mechanisms ensures tissue recomposing via preferential energy use – that is, it genetically alters the manner in which your body diverts energy to adipose and striated muscle; decreasing the former, while increasing the latter.
It should also be noted that clinical, long-term trials [11, 12] using the aforementioned ingredients have not noted any adverse biological effects. Microbiological assays [13] have also revealed no damaging effects to mammalian cell function. Further, it should be noted that the vast majority of the clinical research presented in this report converges on a major, health-related note: Both LS and Berberine possess potent anit-lipogenic activity, and thereby mitigate LDL cholesterol, and plasma triglyceride formation and function – key contributors to coronary disease. It should also be noted that both ingredients mitigate abnormal blood pressure levels.
Literature:

[1] Banaba Leaf Research Update
Effects of dietary mulberry, Korean red ginseng, and banaba on glucose homeostasis in relation to PPAR-alpha, PPAR-gamma, and LPL mRNA expressions.
Life Sci. 2005 Nov 12;77(26):3344-54. Department of Food and Nutrition, College of Human Ecology, Sookmyung Women's University, Seoul, Korea.


[2] Effects of malted barley extract and banaba extract on blood glucose levels in genetically diabetic mice.
J Med Food. 2004 Winter;7(4):487-90

[3] Antidiabetic activity of a standardized extract (Glucosol) from Lagerstroemia speciosa leaves - banaba - in Type II diabetics. A dose-dependence study.
J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Jul;87(1):115-7. Judy WV, et al.

[4] An extract of Lagerstroemia speciosa L. has insulin-like glucose uptake-stimulatory and adipocyte differentiation-inhibitory activities in 3T3-L1 cells.
J Nutr. 2001 Sep;131(9):2242-7

[5] Antiobesity activity of extracts from Lagerstroemia speciosa L. leaves on female KK-Ay mice.
J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 1999 Dec;45(6):791-5.

[6] Hypoglycemic effect of extracts from Lagerstroemia speciosa L. banaba leaves in genetically diabetic KK-AY mice.
Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 1996 Feb;60(2):204-8.

[7] Tannic acid in banaba herb
Tannic acid stimulates glucose transport and inhibits adipocyte differentiation in 3T3-L1 cells.
J Nutr. 2005 Feb;135(2):165-71. 
Liu X, Kim et al.

[8] Antidiabetes and Anti-obesity Activity of Lagerstroemia speciosa Guy Klein,1 et al.

[9] Berberine, a natural plant product, activates AMP-activated protein kinase with beneficial metabolic effects in diabetic and insulin-resistant states. Department of Biological Sciences, Seoul National University, San 56-1, Sillim-Dong .

[10] Berberine-stimulated glucose uptake in L6 myotubes involves both AMPK and p38 MAPK Zhe Cheng et.

[11] Effect of a proprietary Magnolia and Phellodendron extract on stress levels in healthy women: a pilot, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial.Nutr J. 2008: (7): 11. Douglas S Kalman et al.

[12] Phellodendron and Citrus extracts benefit cardiovascular health in osteoarthritis patients: a double-blind, placebo-controlled pilot study.Nutr J. 2008: (7):16. Laboratory of Nutrition and Nutritional Biochemsitry, Department of Biochemistry, University of Yaounde, Cameroon. Oben et al.

[13] Genotoxicity Study of Water Extract of Anemarrhena asphodeloides
and Phellodendron amurense in Bacterial and Mammalian Cell Systems.
Young-Shin Chung et al.

[14] Berberine and Its More Biologically Available Derivative, Dihydroberberine, Inhibit Mitochondrial Respiratory Complex I: A Mechanism for the Action of Berberine to Activate AMP-Activated Protein Kinase and Improve Insulin Action. Diabetes and Obesity Research Program, Garvan Institute of Medical Research, Darlinghurst, Australia. Nigel Turner et al.
 

hardknock

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Exactly my point..
Yes, I understand what your saying.

Also, they can not say "buy my product, it only works for 2 out of 1,000 people"

Im sure we all understand the logic behind that reasoning; we need not go into further detail as to why as I seem to be sensing tension for some mentioned representatives for certain brands.

Let's just all agree that some marketing tactics are not clear cut and some claims do not deliver to the majority, what was promised, as well as to the minority of users.
 
TexasLifter89

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True. I was and am simply saying, that all that matters to me is that the products work. They do, and I am happy.
so you are happy hte product works. I understand your not involved in the marketing aspect, but dont you think its fair to the consumer to provide a realistic claim? I want your thoughts...not some detailed highly sophisticated answer. Just your honest thoughts....dont you believe its unfair to the consumer to recieve false hopes delivered by your(USP) product
 
Mulletsoldier

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See, that's what you keep doing .. you pop in to new logs/bashings of AP, and you unfold/unleash a charade of mumbo-jumobo jargon, TO, as you mentioned, tie you up in data so fast your head would spin. Yeah, man, you've confused me time and time again. For a while, USPlabs actually had me believe I didn't know how to eat right. HAHAHAH, priceless .. :bruce3:
After OP's feedback:

Very detailed feedback! Added the necessary context in bold, as you seem to be doing some extrapolating!
He then playfully wanted to debate the definition of Holy Grail, and a discussion ensued from there. Could you point out where the Mumbo-Jumbo began?
 
bitterplacebo

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This user is offline for a little while.
It's Sunday and I want to play some video games.
Don't get my thread deleted while I'm away.
 
TexasLifter89

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This user is offline for a little while.
It's Sunday and I want to play some video games.
Don't get my thread deleted while I'm away.
i dont think its near being deleted. this is honestly one of the best discussion threads i have seen in awhile. on all aspects.
 
Mulletsoldier

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so you are happy hte product works. I understand your not involved in the marketing aspect, but dont you think its fair to the consumer to provide a realistic claim? I want your thoughts...not some detailed highly sophisticated answer. Just your honest thoughts....dont you believe its unfair to the consumer to recieve false hopes delivered by your(USP) product
Do you feel it is my role to hold your hand through the marketing process? Honestly, this is becoming somewhat redundant.

This is your question: Do you have moral qualms with your company's marketing?

My answer: No.
 

vikinginc

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After OP's feedback:



He then playfully wanted to debate the definition of Holy Grail, and a discussion ensued from there. Could you point out where the Mumbo-Jumbo began?
Hope you're not trying to imply I was teh Holy Grail critic. I didn't bother chiming in with my $.02 there, because there's just nothign worth saying. [Except AP should not be allowed to nickname itself the Holy Grail.]

Mullet, you've known on all the board .. you seem to be the #1 rep for the company, always backing $hit up with lots of chemistry/biology. I do believe that you could have a significant effect on the marketing department, if you indeed DID report back these major issues ..

And I'm guessing it's a NO-GO for the Anabolic Pump Full Money Return with your guys ? .. we must purchase it directly FROM you guys ?
 

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