Yohimbe and its Alkaloids Should be Banned: An Unpopular, Quick Think Piece

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  1. Lightbulb Yohimbe and its Alkaloids Should be Banned: An Unpopular, Quick Think Piece


    Let me start off this post with my personal thoughts. In a perfect world, what supplement companies place on a label is what is contained in the product, thus mitigating the need for any regulatory involvement. As seen below, this isnít 100%. Therefore, I believe it is in consumers best interests to ban yohimbe and its alkaloids in dietary supplements. I believe people should be able to consume what they want, but only if theyíre certain of what theyíre consuming. This is fundamentally necessary. I write this piece knowing my opinion wonít be popular. I hope you continue reading so the community can have a healthy debate on the topic.


    What is Yohimbe?
    Yohimbe is an evergreen tree native to Western and Central Africa. Yohimbine, which is commonly used in dietary supplements, is found within the bark. Yohimbe has a host of other alkaloids, however yohimbine is what is most commonly consumed.


    Dosages used?
    Dosage varies, but for fat burning, 0.2mg/kg bodyweight is common with yohimbine. This amount is reduced quite a bit if taken with synergists. A good read here: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...orner-4-a.html


    Benefits?
    Erectile Dysfunction: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9649257/

    Fat Loss: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17214405/


    Side effects?
    Anxiety, Cortisol, Blood Pressure, Heart Rate: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21710402

    [granted, this was done at 0.4mg/kg, but people have similar side effects at lower dosages as well]


    Whatís the big concern?
    What I want to discuss today isnít the concern of the side effects. These are easily found all over the internet. My concern is that we donít know how much weíre consuming. Below we can see that labeling inaccuracies run rampant, and it truly matters for an ingredient that is stimulatory, potentially anxiogenic, and dosed in the small milligrams range.

    Cohen et all analyzed 49 brands of supplements labelled as containing yohimbe or yohimbine. They shopped at seven major retailers. 11/49 listed a specific quantity of yohimbine, while the rest didnít specify the amount (assuming a prop blend). Of the 11 that listed an exact amount, actual content ranged from 23% to 147% of what the label claimed.

    ďThe quantity of the most active alkaloid, yohimbine, per recommended serving ranged from none detected to 12.1 mg. Thirty‐nine percent of the supplements (19/49) did not contain rauwolscine and corynanthine suggesting that the yohimbine was either from highly processed plant extract or synthetic in origin. Only 11 supplement brands (22%, 11/49) listed a specific quantity of yohimbine on the label. Most of these were inaccurately labelled (actual content ranged from 23% to 147% of the content on the label). Eighteen percent (9/49) of the supplements' labels did not provide any information about yohimbine's adverse effects. Of the 49 yohimbine supplement brands sold at seven major retail chains in the USA, only 4.1% (2/49) provided consumers with both accurate information about the quantity of yohimbine as well as information about yohimbine's known adverse effects.Ē
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/....1002/dta.1849

    Another time label claim issues came up:

    "The chromatographic fingerprint analysis was applied to the analysis of 18 yohimbe commercial dietary supplement samples. Quantitation of yohimbine, the traditional method for analysis of yohimbe barks, were also performed to evaluate the results of the fingerprint analysis. Wide variability was observed in fingerprints and yohimbine content among yohimbe dietary supplement samples. For most of the dietary supplements, the yohimbine content was not consistent with the label claims."
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...?dopt=Abstract

    Yohimbine supplements have been banned in other countries already. People react unpredictably, which is made worse by the fact that labels may be inaccurate.

    Thoughts?


  2. Nothing should be banned. Quit empowering the nanny-state.
    Do as I say, not as I do.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Old Witch View Post
    Nothing should be banned. Quit empowering the nanny-state.
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Witch View Post
    Personally, my must-haves are beetroot powder (nitrates), creatine, protein isolate (beef and whey), arginine, ALCAR, and L Carnitine.
    Your opinion isnít relevant in the supplement forum.
  4. Yohimbe and its Alkaloids Should be Banned: An Unpopular, Quick Think Piece


    Quote Originally Posted by aaronuconn View Post
    Your opinion isnít relevant in the supplement forum.
    Says the guy who quite obviously never tried any of that stuff you brought up to discredit me.

    You asked for thoughts. These are thoughts. You want to BAN YOHIMBE. if anything your opinion should never matter to anyone ever again.
    Do as I say, not as I do.
  5. Yohimbe and its Alkaloids Should be Banned: An Unpopular, Quick Think Piece


    For the record, beef protein contains the rest of the aminos necessary to build a complete human protein from the leftover aminos in whey isolate and vice versa. They are both necessary in my opinion to maximize complete protein synthesis.

    The beet juice I use, whatever is in it, works. Extremely well.
    Do as I say, not as I do.
    •   
       


  6. I donít even LIKE yohimbe, canít use it, and this is still the dumbest ****ing thing I have read all week.
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by aaronuconn View Post
    Your opinion isnít relevant in the supplement forum.
    Damn.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Old Witch View Post
    Says the guy who quite obviously never tried any of that stuff.

    You asked for thoughts. These are thoughts. You want to BAN YOHIMBE. if anything your opinion should never matter to anyone ever again.
    Iíve tried many varieties of Yohimbe alkaloids over the years.

    Thanks for your feedback.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by aaronuconn View Post
    Iíve tried many varieties of Yohimbe alkaloids over the years.

    Thanks for your feedback.
    Hey genius, I meant the stuff you tried to use to discredit my opinion. Man, are you sure you should be trying to wax intellectual? You canít even gain inference from a simple statement. I can only imagine what it must be like to know you personally.
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  10. As with anything consumers should do their research and decide if it's something they want or not. Shouldn't be banned at all.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by _Endure_ View Post
    As with anything consumers should do their research and decide if it's something they want or not. Shouldn't be banned at all.
    Definitely agreed on the research. I believe there are ample resources out there for people to make informed decisions.

    My primary concern is more with the labeling issue then with the side effects. You can do all the research you want, but if you think youíre taking 5mg of yohimbine, but really itís 10mg, it could be quite the different experience.

  12. Anything could be over/under dosed in anything. I think labeling inaccuracies are more prevalent than we think from anything to foods, supps, meds etc. We're not talking about a life threatening substance here if it's off by a couple mg's for a healthy individual. For someone with predetermined conditions it's not something they should be using in the first place.

  13. Obviously then the thought should not be to ban the substance but to hold companies accountable to their labels. The substance has zero to do with that.
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by _Endure_ View Post
    Anything could be over/under dosed in anything. I think labeling inaccuracies are more prevalent than we think from anything to foods, supps, meds etc. We're not talking about a life threatening substance here if it's off by a couple mg's for a healthy individual. For someone with predetermined conditions it's not something they should be using in the first place.
    I think supplement companies are allowed to be ďx%Ē off (canít find the source for this), but weíre talking upwards of 147% off in this scenario.

    Maybe not life threatening, but milligrams can be the difference between panic/anxiety attacks and not.

    And just to make sure Iím clear (Iím not assuming youíre misunderstanding, just restating), I do believe people should be able to take what they want, but they have the right to be aware of what theyíre taking and in what quantity.
  15. Yohimbe and its Alkaloids Should be Banned: An Unpopular, Quick Think Piece


    Quote Originally Posted by Old Witch View Post
    Obviously then the thought should not be to ban the substance but to hold companies accountable to their labels. The substance has zero to do with that.
    This brings it to another discussion point that is valid. The idea we donít need more regulations, just stricter enforcement on dietary supplements and inaccurate labels.

    I donít think anyone will argue that. Weíre just waiting to see it happen.

  16. OP has been a member here since Ď11 and thinks people would side with him on having sh1t banned? 🤣

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Rad83 View Post
    OP has been a member here since Ď11 and thinks people would side with him on having sh1t banned? 🤣
    Given the title of the thread, I donít think people will side with me. And thatís fine. Looking to have a discussion

  18. Sounds like a labeling issue. Ban proprietary blends more like?
    Original AM log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/264178-first-am-log.html

  19. Quote Originally Posted by sinewave3 View Post
    Sounds like a labeling issue. Ban proprietary blends more like?
    Although Iím against prop blends, this isnít entirely the issue either. 11 out of the 49 tested yohimbine products listed a specific quantity of yohimbine. Of the 11 that listed an exact amount, actual content ranged from 23% to 147% of what the label claimed.
  20. Yohimbe and its Alkaloids Should be Banned: An Unpopular, Quick Think Piece


    You want better labeling and quality control. That is applicable and relevant to literally any and every ingredient in supplements, period.

    Should standalone yohimbine HCL caps with COAs and lab testing be outlawed? If not, then you donít actually think it should be banned.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
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  21. Yohimbe and its Alkaloids Should be Banned: An Unpopular, Quick Think Piece


    Looks like all of the products which didnít meet label claims were using a standardized extract or bad labeling.

    The one with 23% of their label claim, was claiming 8mg yohimbe extract (bark) yohimbine 8%. So itís not surprising that it has only 1.2 mg of yohimbe. Itís only 8mg of bark, which in turn is only 8% yohimbine per label claims. Technically, they had MORE than their label claim, since 8% of 8mg (their claimed amount) is less than 1mg.
    Do as I say, not as I do.

  22. What is that yohimbe supplement containing 147%? I will buy that.
  23. Yohimbe and its Alkaloids Should be Banned: An Unpopular, Quick Think Piece


    Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    You want better labeling and quality control. That is applicable and relevant to literally any and every ingredient in supplements, period.

    Should standalone yohimbine HCL caps with COAs and lab testing be outlawed? If not, then you donít actually think it should be banned.
    What do you propose for better labeling and quality control?

  24. sounds like a labeling/quality control issue to me

    I don't personally use yohimbe, makes me feel like crap until my body gets used to it but the wait for that isn't worth it in my opinion, it's up to us to be educated consumers though...I see it on a label and I don't buy that product, it's as simple as that, I do the same with beta alanine for the most part too
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    sounds like a labeling/quality control issue to me

    I don't personally use yohimbe, makes me feel like crap until my body gets used to it but the wait for that isn't worth it in my opinion, it's up to us to be educated consumers though...I see it on a label and I don't buy that product, it's as simple as that, I do the same with beta alanine for the most part too
    No disagreement that consumers should be educated on what they consume. With the resources available today (examine, google, etc), you can get educated fairly quickly.

    My concern is that you [potentially] can spend all the time you want researching and getting yourself properly educated, only to find youíre taking way more than you thought. For some, it could be enough to incite anxiety and/or panic
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