Some Serious Advice Needed Please

[Ekse]

Hi,
I have been doing extensive research and thanks to all that share knowledge.
I wish to gain strength for endurance sports but not gain any mass.

Unfortunatley i will never do injectables. Im just too afraid

My research points me to an Equipoise, winstrol stack possibly with some Test (for endurance sports.)

I do have superdrol and prostanozol. I think i will stay away from superdrol as the side effects seem harsh (very important to me), and wish not to "shut-down." There is a new oral IGF-1 compound that is promising.

My question is:
what effective ORAL combination/stack would be required for the most gains in terms of power (strength) full explanation

Also, after many hours of research, i did not find a concise post cycle therapy for a standalone Prostan cycle.

Can Anaboloc Xtreme post cycle therapy be enough? porvided AX Perfect Cycle was taken during cycle? Are these AX products even effective enough for a post cycle therapy? (remeber, Prostan does not invoke complete "shut-down" like superdrol)
Is a IGF-1 standalone enough? Nolva, Clomid e.t.c seem very strong for a Prostan cycle

i dont want to do any fully fledged Test/Steroid cycles or anything hence my favour for Prostan, and possibly IFG-1 (no harsh side efects that we know of)
How about a Designer Supplement's ActivaTe™ and Prostanozol cycle?
How long can i run this? Is PowerFull better? How about hyperdrol? I heard hyperdrol is nothing but hype...
I know that most benefits of taking Prontan/winstrol are gained when taken with Test (binding receptor side effect properties of winstrol make for a very condusive enviroment for Test). Is there an oral alternative to EQ? Any Boldenone precursors out there? Equibolan clones? ( I heard Twin Labs was just a scam and that Equi-Bolan was useless anyway- i have been out of the loop for a while)

In conclusion:
1) I need the ultimate natural Test booster combination to maximise a Prostan cycle, (ActivaTe, Universal animal stack-M, PowerFull e.t.c,)
2) requirments for a safe Prostan cycle in combination with a test booster, and a consice and conclusive (after many discussions) PCT for such a cycle.
3) Boldenone alternative

I have seen a few other people interested in doing something very sililar to what i want to do (endurance athletes but dont want the harsh side effects of a full bodybuilder's steroid cycle)
I know that the hard core users are going to just say stick to supplements, but i want to be realistic, supps are great for club athelets, i am talking about training conditions that go beyond natural ability, but am trying as much as i can to avaoid a bodybuilder's acute cycle.

Thanks in advance for all your help
Ekse

 

[doom3q]

Hi,
I have been doing extensive research and thanks to all that share knowledge.

...

Also, after many hours of research, i did not find a concise post cycle therapy for a standalone Prostan cycle.

...

Thanks in advance for all your help
Ekse

You're going to need more than "many hours of research." Take a good 3 or 4 months to figure this stuff out. You're asking alot of stupid questions, you're not ready bro.

 

[Werewolf]

Look at posts 66 through 70 for use of low dose superdrol and IGF-1R3.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh-slin/47476-my-newest-research-eod-e3d-inj-6.html#post593030

I love the NHA cycle and should be good for endurance, but where is the AI in yours? You probably want to add Cissus.

You might want to think about low dose M-TRN.

 

[Rage (SoCal)]

Good post but every single question you asked can be answered by doing research, on this site alone. Keep reading around and become educated rather than being spoon fed, you'll carry out a lot more from it.

You asking about running Activate and Prostan for a great stack speaks for itself. Good luck. Come back to us when you have more specific questions. Also, if you didn't have so many damn questions I would help.

 

[Ekse]

thanks for the replies...
while most of the questions can be found by reading stuff in the threads, there are no awnsers for the particular combination for what i need.
In addition, i think what i am looking for requirs the latest creativity in designer suppliments a steroids, so perhaps doom3q is not ahead of the curve?

i am not looking for a generic stacking cycle, (which can be found through reading the forums) it is specific. So perhaps doom3q may not be able to help on that one. thanks for offering your advice though.
I feel i have not explained my needs far enough.

I do not wish for mass. > most discussions are almost always about gaining mass. - so how is this a stupid question?

i do not wish to shut-down > most stacks wll do this - so how is this a stupid question? It is infact a very challenging one -so again, doom3q, you may not have enough knowlegde to help me.

Some stacks are in fact bad for endurance sports > so again, how is this a stupid question? - Finding such a combination seems difficult, hence my need for some advice.

Werewolf, thanks man. I have thought of M-TRN. Also doing hgh have crossed my mind. IFG-1 seems to to be good, as most of the pros a currently using this. I would still need a cycle however after that that would help in strength gains after the newly developed cells have been made....

I hope not to be detered by people like doom3q, i am looking for help from what seems to be a very helpfull and educated community in this stuff

 

[idunk42]

Ekse, shutdown is shutdown. Your pretty much putting synthetic hormones in your body which in turn shutsdown your bodies natural hormonal system (your natty test). Regardless of taking activate on cycle, probably wont do anything to help you. If you are taking a PH or AAS, you will be shutdown..............PERIOD.

 

[preston25]

Hey bro, we are in the same boat. And im going through the same thing. Now ive been cycling igf-1lr3 with great results. Its quite popular in the peleton in europe. Try that first and see how it works for you and then get started with your stack. I have had good results with albuterol as well. B-12 injections will give your hemoglobin a boost too.

 

[Irish Cannon]

for some reason it always bugs me when people wont inject.

bite the bullet. its safer and more effective.

 

[preston25]

here here. injectables can be pricey though!

 

[Jayhawkk]

It's not always about fear of needles but a fear of people finding the components. It's a lot easier to keep orals safe than injectables.

I guess you could then argue if you can't secure it then don't use it

 

[Mulletsoldier]

thanks for the replies...
while most of the questions can be found by reading stuff in the threads, there are no awnsers for the particular combination for what i need.
In addition, i think what i am looking for requirs the latest creativity in designer suppliments a steroids, so perhaps doom3q is not ahead of the curve?

You are correct, there probably is not a thread/post cluster on the particular situation you are in-- examining the particular combination of compounds you wish to use. However, the compounds in question, their derivitives, and the effects of both have been discussed ad naseum on this website. Knowledge is not spoon fed, it is up to you to garner as much information possible regarding all aspects of all compounds you wish to use, then as an intelligent human being discern what would fit your specific goals the best.

i am not looking for a generic stacking cycle, (which can be found through reading the forums) it is specific. So perhaps doom3q may not be able to help on that one. thanks for offering your advice though.
I feel i have not explained my needs far enough.

See above.

I do not wish for mass. > most discussions are almost always about gaining mass. - so how is this a stupid question?

I take it you are generalizing mass as the classic misconception of fat/water/glycogen/muscle, when there are many different types of mass, which is the reason why all steroid discussions refer to it. We could point you to compounds that would give you fantastic strength, and mass in the form of very lean, very dense, maintainable muscle--if I am not mistaken just what you are looking for.

i do not wish to shut-down > most stacks wll do this - so how is this a stupid question? It is infact a very challenging one -so again, doom3q, you may not have enough knowlegde to help me.

Steroids are exogenous hormones which are introduced into your body. Through the proccess of negative feedback Testosterone production is haulted in the Testes due to the presence of these hormones--i.e., shutdown. All steroids will do as such. When you find an oral steroid with fantastic strength gains, minimal sides, and no shut down make sure you let the medical community know.

Some stacks are in fact bad for endurance sports > so again, how is this a stupid question? - Finding such a combination seems difficult, hence my need for some advice.

Not a stupid question perse, more a query that displayed inadequate research. As I said above, the internet is filled with all the information one would need about any compound, it is up to you to discern what would best fit your goals. Boards like this one are here to give first hand experience, and guidance on the physiological evidence you present. Not to do the work for you.

I hope not to be detered by people like doom3q, i am looking for help from what seems to be a very helpfull and educated community in this stuff

Please do not be. This is a very educated and helpful community, however we will not spoonfeed anyone.

 

[mixedup]

Originally Posted by Ekse
i do not wish to shut-down > most stacks wll do this - so how is this a stupid question? It is infact a very challenging one -so again, doom3q, you may not have enough knowlegde to help me.

NO one has enough knowledge to help you with that one bro sorry not a flame but no matter what compound you are going to choose it is going to shut you down. that's just an effect of taking steroids and no way around it.

 

[PVSkyHigh]

Originally Posted by Ekse
i do not wish to shut-down > most stacks wll do this - so how is this a stupid question? It is infact a very challenging one -so again, doom3q, you may not have enough knowlegde to help me.

NO one has enough knowledge to help you with that one bro sorry not a flame but no matter what compound you are going to choose it is going to shut you down. that's just an effect of taking steroids and no way around it.

Definately. Test boosters are used to raise your natural test. Moreover, you need to be producing testosterone to be able to increase its production in your body. Taking a steroid is going to stop your body from producing its own testosterone. Case in point, 0testosterone + test booster = 0.

 

[doom3q]

thanks for the replies...


Werewolf, thanks man. I have thought of M-TRN. Also doing hgh have crossed my mind. IFG-1 seems to to be good, as most of the pros a currently using this. I would still need a cycle however after that that would help in strength gains after the newly developed cells have been made....

I hope not to be detered by people like doom3q, i am looking for help from what seems to be a very helpfull and educated community in this stuff

Since it's saturday I will take the time to go over your points. My original post wasn't an insult, just advise that you're not ready and should take some more time studying up. You can ask questions along the way, and I'll gladly answer them, but you asked about 50 simple q's.

"Unfortunatley i will never do injectables. Im just too afraid
My research points me to an Equipoise, winstrol stack possibly with some Test (for endurance sports.)"

Test and Eq are injectable.

"Is a IGF-1 standalone enough?"

IGF is injectable, aswell as HGH. Any oral peptide will NOT work.

"How about a Designer Supplement's ActivaTe™ and Prostanozol cycle?"

Activate is used off cycle to free up bound test and help with post cycle therapy.

"Is there an oral alternative to EQ?"

I'm sure you are well aware of dianabol which is methylated EQ. It is however horrible for endurance as it lowers RBC count and adds about 20lbs of water.

"Any Boldenone precursors out there?"

No.

"How long can i run this? Is PowerFull better? How about hyperdrol?"

Prostan, powerFull, and hyperdrol are all weak and would yield little results at best.

"I need the ultimate natural Test booster combination to maximise a Prostan cycle"

Save the test boosters for post cycle therapy as prostan is suppressive.

"requirments for a safe Prostan cycle in combination with a test booster, and a consice and conclusive (after many discussions) post cycle therapy for such a cycle."

Prostanozol is a very safe compound. No ancillaries are needed. The post cycle therapy for a zol cycle has been answered many times. Nolva 40/20/20 would work very well.

I could go on but you get my point.

And to answer your original question:

"what effective ORAL combination/stack would be required for the most gains [for endurance]"

A safe oral cycle would be:
wk 1-8: var 40mg ED
*simple, safe, and works

Or if you're looking for something more extreme:
wk 1-4: TRN 4mg ED
wk 1-6: Winny 50mg ED
*not good for joints


Good luck bro, I really hope you take my original advice for your own safety.

 

[Ekse]

hey doom3q,
yes, thanks man. Your reply has helped me a lot. This has really pointed me in some good directions.
I did do a search for endurance athletes, and a lot of points to EQ, as it is GOOD for RBC. Thas why i was thinking of a Prostan and EQ stack, I will double check, perhaps i misread the benefits on RBC.

I am aware that 9/10 compounds will envoke shutdown, but Prostan will do so at a much much much lower extent from what i have read. How ever, for Prostan to be really utelised, there is a need for a secondary combound that is very androgenic (but then again, this is geared specifically for bodybuilders, so this benefit of Prostan may not benefit me, see, this is not easy to figure out trust me). This is where my dilema comes in, as i do not wish to use Test due to the size gains and water retention e.t.c ( I will be training legs in the gym A LOT, and any powerful androgen i take such as superdrol will result in an increase in mass without a doubt)

I suppose i could run a Prostan standalone it seems, although i would have thought a Test Booster with a Prostan standalone would be better than no test booster, as test boosters are meant to increase your natural Test by some large numbers.

Preston25, i have been following your progress and questions, i am just behind you.

By the way, IGF-1 does not shut-down natural test, so i dont know why i am eing flamed as if i dont know that Test will shut you down?

Doom3q, yes i have read the warnings of oral IGF-1 to not be trusted, but i was not sure if i was allowed to drop names, but i was refering to Oratropin-1 which is an oral IGF-1 that has been proven to work. (unless its not true, i did ask if it really worked in the IGF forum and they all said very much so)

One more thing, what is var?

thanks again for all your help, this is what i was looking for.

 

[idunk42]

var= anavar

 

[Ekse]

and yea, i do agree with you all on the injectables, but i would rather have a doctor manage something like that. I would take needles, but i am not going to do something like that in locker rooms and what not, i think without the full knowledgr, guidence and monitering of blood, needles end up being more dangerous. having needles and stuff in a home with children, all the gear that can be found e.t.c i am sure some of you can understand. Last thing, i nkow you will all find this very very strange, but as an athlete who may want to compete, needles just feels like cheating somehow, i know sounds wierd, but that how i feel. hehe

 

[idunk42]

You know even if you go the oral route your still "cheating" right?

 

[ripped22]

Try using M-DHT if you can find it. It is avaliable and will give you strong androgenic effects (strength, hardness, vascularity). This compound is a proven athletic performance enhancer. Also, it is minimally suppressive.

IGF-LR3 sounds promising and i will be trying this out soon. It is a injectable and if used in the proper protocal it needs to be injected multiple times a day (this is up for debate). So IGF-LR3 may be out of the question for you.

If you do decide to use these compounds together try using the IGF-LR3 by itself first for 4 weeks. Then use the MDHT for 4-6 weeks by itself. Next use them together for 4 weeks. This regimine will give you the chance to add new cells first then add the androgen. Also you will be able to judge these compounds individually.

Don't bother with prostan, M-trn, halodrol, pp and the rest of the designer crap. They are minimally effective and will not give you the kind of results you are looking for. On the other hand SD is great but is more of a mass builder and will def. kill endurance. Don't use it.

One last thing. To bad you are scared to inject. Pills are cheating as too.

 

[Werewolf]

Why don't start off with nice safe cycle like I'm cutting on right now.

Get Some ActivaTE (4 a day spread out) and Rebound reloaded (2 day). Very safe and you will feel really good.
Add Cissus for joints and little extra muscle growth.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/designer-supplements/50299-my-impressive-activate-reloaded-blood-work.html

If you want add some Oratrophin (IGF-1R3). Take a half-dose
every 4th day. Best taken laying on your side and swish around in mouth. Let it lie in yout cheek for a minute or so then roll to the other side and swish again. Then finally roll on your back and let it go down the back of throat.

Adding some PGH-T will give you a very Synergistic affect to the IGF-1R3 by boosting HGH.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh-slin/47476-my-newest-research-eod-e3d-inj-8.html

Then do research into what you want to do next.

 

[preston25]

TO EKSE, look bro insulin pins are soooooo easy and painless. The thing about Igf-1lr3 is that it you will generate new muscle cells. Which translates to lean hard muscle mass. Its also cheap. I feel great on the stuff and recovery is fantastic.

 

[preston25]

So what about running activate and rebound by itself, stacked with igflr3? Im looking to get more cut with lean mus. mass gains. Oh and anavar for some strength gains.

 

[preston25]

Ok the hell anavar. What about just a nat test booster as a cycle?

 

[preston25]

Does anybody have any experience with winni v oral?

 

[doom3q]

Try using M-DHT if you can find it. It is avaliable and will give you strong androgenic effects (strength, hardness, vascularity). This compound is a proven athletic performance enhancer. Also, it is minimally suppressive.

IGF-LR3 sounds promising and i will be trying this out soon. It is a injectable and if used in the proper protocal it needs to be injected multiple times a day (this is up for debate). So IGF-LR3 may be out of the question for you.

If you do decide to use these compounds together try using the IGF-LR3 by itself first for 4 weeks. Then use the MDHT for 4-6 weeks by itself. Next use them together for 4 weeks. This regimine will give you the chance to add new cells first then add the androgen. Also you will be able to judge these compounds individually.

Don't bother with prostan, M-trn, halodrol, pp and the rest of the designer crap. They are minimally effective and will not give you the kind of results you are looking for. On the other hand superdrol is great but is more of a mass builder and will def. kill endurance. Don't use it.

One last thing. To bad you are scared to inject. Pills are cheating as too.

MDHT is very suppressive. It was sold as a pre-workout boost to be used 3x a week at most to avoid shutdown. You could use it before a run with great success, or cycle it with a proper PCT afterwards.

IGF is great stuff. Might not be the best for endurance, but it isn't tested for and hence gaining popularity among pro athletes.

 

[doom3q]

hey doom3q,
yes, thanks man. Your reply has helped me a lot. This has really pointed me in some good directions.
I did do a search for endurance athletes, and a lot of points to EQ, as it is GOOD for RBC. Thas why i was thinking of a Prostan and EQ stack, I will double check, perhaps i misread the benefits on RBC.

I am aware that 9/10 compounds will envoke shutdown, but Prostan will do so at a much much much lower extent from what i have read. How ever, for Prostan to be really utelised, there is a need for a secondary combound that is very androgenic (but then again, this is geared specifically for bodybuilders, so this benefit of Prostan may not benefit me, see, this is not easy to figure out trust me). This is where my dilema comes in, as i do not wish to use Test due to the size gains and water retention e.t.c ( I will be training legs in the gym A LOT, and any powerful androgen i take such as superdrol will result in an increase in mass without a doubt)

I suppose i could run a Prostan standalone it seems, although i would have thought a Test Booster with a Prostan standalone would be better than no test booster, as test boosters are meant to increase your natural Test by some large numbers.

Preston25, i have been following your progress and questions, i am just behind you.

By the way, IGF-1 does not shut-down natural test, so i dont know why i am eing flamed as if i dont know that Test will shut you down?

Doom3q, yes i have read the warnings of oral IGF-1 to not be trusted, but i was not sure if i was allowed to drop names, but i was refering to Oratropin-1 which is an oral IGF-1 that has been proven to work. (unless its not true, i did ask if it really worked in the IGF forum and they all said very much so)

One more thing, what is var?

thanks again for all your help, this is what i was looking for.

No problem bud.

You're right, EQ is great for endurance. You have stated you do not want to inject anything, so you could opt for a transdermal boldenone base. This would be a little tricky as you would have to brew the stuff yourself. The reason dianabol (methyl boldenone) wouldn't work is because it heavily aromatizes which adds alot of water weight. This would not only slow you down, but also dilute your blood to lower your RBC.

Winstrol, Anavar, Halotestin, MDHT or MegaTRN would be wise options as none of these add weight, yet all add strength.

Prostanozol (unmethylated winny) would be a bad choice because of its low oral absorption and its very short half life (frequent dosing needed). Unless you had lots of this stuff, I wouldn't bother running it.

Although Oratropin-1 is from a board sponsor it seems a little shady. I've seen logs where guys have gained 17lbs and some only 2lbs on it. It's also pricey stuff, but if pins are out of the option, then this could be a very useful off-cycle boost. Most would say it works better with an androgen, but I would run it off cycle so you stay fast while in post cycle therapy. Lower dosage if you're gaining weight fast.

Good luck.

 

[preston25]

The only reason igf may not be for an endurance athlete is because of the pumps. But I train on it everyday, up to 3 on the bike, and i love it.

 

[ripped22]

There is a better article out there but i can't find it at the moment. From my experience and others i know M-DHT is suppressive but not nearly as much as most other anabolic/androgenic compounds. I would like to see a study that suggests m-DHT is "very" suppressive. Anything i have ever read suggests the exact opposite. Although, i am not suggesting that a proper post cycle therapy should not be done after use.




Although some scattered small-scale research does appear to exist, there is very little published information on the use of methyl-DHT in humans. Observations in Germany by scientists indicated that it is effective at increasing athletic performance [2]. There is also a patent that describes some of the effects of methyl-DHT administration on humans [3]. According to the patent, methyl-DHT is anabolic in humans, but not with the same potency of other commonly used steroids. However, this was with only 10-20 mg daily. They also reported a strong anticatabolic effect (in other words, it inhibited lean tissue breakdown) in a study of 54 "physically highly stressed test persons."


Most notable in the patent, however, were comments regarding the psychological effects of methyl-DHT. To quote from the patent:
"This research completely unexpectedly and surprisingly discovered a hitherto unknown further action of mestanolone [methyl-DHT], namely the supply thereof led to an optimization of the central nervous system activation during preparation for the task and to a maintaining of this optimum activation even under high stresses. Thus, there was an increase [in] psychophysiological capacity.

"...The test persons performed difficult exercises requiring high physical capacities linked with high intellectual concentration and muscular coordination with far fewer errors. Complicated movement sequences with a high degree of stressing did not lead to a reduction in the degree of activation and instead the increased capacity remained after several repeats."

A final effect indicated in this application was that after 20 mg for six weeks, natural testosterone production was not affected. It should not be counted on for this effect to be reliable, as it could have been a function of dose or the way that testosterone regulation was measured. All steroids should be cycled on and off, with the employment of proper post-cycle therapy.

There is also another study, published in the early 1960's, in which women with tuberculosis were given 100 mg daily of methyl-DHT sublingually. Compared to control, the women given methyl-DHT had increased body weight and nitrogen retention [4].

Although user feedback is generally unreliable, it is the next best thing given the low amount of published information on the effects of methyl-DHT in humans. In general, reports from users are in line with what should be expected given the characteristics of this steroid: the perception of muscle hardening, decreased appearance of body fat, strength increases, muscle preservation while dieting (but no pronounced muscle building effect), increased sex drive, and increased confidence and concentration in the gym. In terms of side effects, some report an increased rate of hair loss, while others do not note this effect.

 

[jmh80]

Let me repeat again what others have already said - orals are cheating. Now, you may "feel" that pins are cheating even more. I don't agree.

Now that we've got that out of the way...

If you are looking for RBC and don't want pins - I could only suggest methyl B-12 with a B vitamin complex (specifically folic acid). That combo has been shown to increase hematocrit.
Now - the methyl B-12 would require injecting. Perhaps you could get comfortable with that (you are apparently comfortable with oral steroids - which confuses the living hell outta me, yet I digress) since it's not a steroid.

Re: Powerfull and what Doom said - I don't agree. Powerfull works. Plain and simple. I've taken 4 bottles of the stuff and had fantastic recomp effects with strength increases (what you are looking for).

Which reminds me - your situation while unique (I suppose...), is merely a recomposition situation. Search for stuff like that.

I'd second Rebound Reloaded. If I were you, I'd take Powerfull and Reloaded and be on my way.
I'd get some methyl B-12 and a B complex and get to pinning using insuling pins.

 

[preston25]

Thanks for taking the time to post this bro, good job and very helpful. I did find mdht for sale on the web. So its available. How would this compare to something like M-zol. Stacked with activate and rebound.

 

[preston25]

I agree with jmh80. This looks like a direstion i will probably go in. Now like i said before ive competed at the highest level in europe and b-12 shots are common because they work. Alot guys used albuterol too. And its doesnt get any easier than that bro.

 

[preston25]

Does anyone have experience with this oral equipoison stuff?

 

[jmh80]

I doubt anyone trustworthy has used something called Equipoison on this board.
(Unless that's some blend that I've never heard of - is it boldenone undec??? or some supp??)

 

[mixedup]

Does anyone have experience with this oral equipoison stuff?

It is a supplementation. it's pre ban and if I remember it has some good stuff in in 4ad, 19nor etc. keep in mind you will need a Great deal of it as taken those pre ban pro's oral the dosage had to be extremely high to see results.

 

[doom3q]

There is a better article out there but i can't find it at the moment. From my experience and others i know M-DHT is suppressive but not nearly as much as most other anabolic/androgenic compounds. I would like to see a study that suggests m-DHT is "very" suppressive. Anything i have ever read suggests the exact opposite. Although, i am not suggesting that a proper post cycle therapy should not be done after use.




Although some scattered small-scale research does appear to exist, there is very little published information on the use of methyl-DHT in humans. Observations in Germany by scientists indicated that it is effective at increasing athletic performance [2]. There is also a patent that describes some of the effects of methyl-DHT administration on humans [3]. According to the patent, methyl-DHT is anabolic in humans, but not with the same potency of other commonly used steroids. However, this was with only 10-20 mg daily. They also reported a strong anticatabolic effect (in other words, it inhibited lean tissue breakdown) in a study of 54 "physically highly stressed test persons."


Most notable in the patent, however, were comments regarding the psychological effects of methyl-DHT. To quote from the patent:
"This research completely unexpectedly and surprisingly discovered a hitherto unknown further action of mestanolone [methyl-DHT], namely the supply thereof led to an optimization of the central nervous system activation during preparation for the task and to a maintaining of this optimum activation even under high stresses. Thus, there was an increase [in] psychophysiological capacity.

"...The test persons performed difficult exercises requiring high physical capacities linked with high intellectual concentration and muscular coordination with far fewer errors. Complicated movement sequences with a high degree of stressing did not lead to a reduction in the degree of activation and instead the increased capacity remained after several repeats."

A final effect indicated in this application was that after 20 mg for six weeks, natural testosterone production was not affected. It should not be counted on for this effect to be reliable, as it could have been a function of dose or the way that testosterone regulation was measured. All steroids should be cycled on and off, with the employment of proper post-cycle therapy.

There is also another study, published in the early 1960's, in which women with tuberculosis were given 100 mg daily of methyl-DHT sublingually. Compared to control, the women given methyl-DHT had increased body weight and nitrogen retention [4].

Although user feedback is generally unreliable, it is the next best thing given the low amount of published information on the effects of methyl-DHT in humans. In general, reports from users are in line with what should be expected given the characteristics of this steroid: the perception of muscle hardening, decreased appearance of body fat, strength increases, muscle preservation while dieting (but no pronounced muscle building effect), increased sex drive, and increased confidence and concentration in the gym. In terms of side effects, some report an increased rate of hair loss, while others do not note this effect.

10-20mg is a low dose. Considering its halflife, you could avoid shutdown using at that dose. Most cycles use 100mg however. Good post, personally I love the stuff for a boost.

 

[jmh80]

Doom - as Mullet mentioned, taking any extrogenous hormones will shut you down.
Shut down is shut down.
Take whatever dose you need to be effective - but drop the idea of not shutting yourself down.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

10-20mg is a low dose. Considering its halflife, you could avoid shutdown using at that dose. Most cycles use 100mg however. Good post, personally I love the stuff for a boost.

Yeah man, exogenous hormones = shutdown, negative feedback is a byatch. The only thing that varies is the severity of said shutdown which is affected by duration of use, the compound itself, dosage used, etc.,

 

[Ekse]

Ok, i am starting to get a clearer idea here from all the posts.

I do have a long relationship with B-12, B-6 and the rest of the B complexes. Folic Acid and Iron, Magnesium e.t.c and their effects on RBC.

Without doing EPO, that is as good as it gets (maybe clenbuterol and a few other things that help with RBC).
By being unable to have EPO, i companstated by gaining very very strong mucscles, that ment they tired less quickly under load, hence my heart rate was more managable, while others depended on not as much strength, but better blood (RBC count) to manage their heart rate.

At any rate, here is my list:

Anavar: deffinately what im looking for. Read up on it. Comments: --during short term use no suppression of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH, start of natural testosterone production) was noted. This meant that whatever gains made, as little as they may have been, were very easily maintained post-cycle. So there was also no use for products like Clomid or Nolvadex in conjunction with oxandrolone consumption. The easy to maintain low gains would indicate a low binding to the androgen receptor. While not extremely high, it should actually be noted that it does have quite decent binding to the androgen receptor.

Halotestin: I am sorry, but this is one of the worst choices, appart from anadrol, it is the most toxic and will end you up with a fried liver.

MegaTRN: this is a Methoxyisoflavone and as far as i know is a test booster, and therefore not supressive? MEaning no need for a post cycle therapy on this stuff?


Prostan: A good compound, while not like the real big boys, has its place in decent strength gains and good chances you will keep them. Not too bad for you too. As far as i can see, this is the only compund on my list that may need a post cycle therapy of Nolva 40/20/20

Activate: these are the new stuff i am not entirely sure on, and no one ever seems to talk aboit it either, its a natural test booster right? No need for post cycle therapy????????????

Powerfull: see above....

Rebound: see above

Oratropin-1 could be the mirecle im looking for, but who knows without concrete feedback.... oh well.

A suggested cycle:
wk 1-4: TRN 4mg ED
wk 1-6: Winny 50mg ED

My comment: why not add var and rebound to this? And in conculusion, Winny would be the only compound to envoke some kind of shut-down, and therefore a PCT of Nolva 40/20/20.

I will write out a cycle and see if you guys think it would work. This is all for an interesting paper research i am doing for school by the way.

thanks for all the help.

 

[Werewolf]

Mega-TRN is suppressive and does need PCT.

ActivaTe blocks conversion active test to DHT raising active test. Active test is the test that builds muscles. Slightly suppressive, but when used with AI like Rebound reloaded or ADT can double normal test and triple active test. No PCT needed, but you should run AI for a week after stopping ActivaTE. Seems to work well for 7 or 8 weeks.

Oratrophin works. Hard to know it is working unless you know what to look for. I have repaired both knees with it. 50 minutes after taking it my stomache growly at me for food. My stomache never growls at me normally.

 

[mixedup]

megatrn: no not a methoxyisoflavone it is a methoxy not a 17aa methyl it's a a chemical compound that will cause shutdown.

Anavar: did those comments say what short term means or low dosage? That is VERY important and remember. this is the first comments i found on the net this is a quote. NOTE I BOLDY TYPICALLY AND EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT

Studies using low dosage of Anavar compound note minimal interferences with natural testosterone production. Likewise when oxandrolone is used alone in small amounts there is TYPICALLY no need for ancillary drugs like Clomid/Nolvadex or HCG. This has a lot to do with the fact that oxandrolone does not convert to estrogen, which we know has an extremely profound effect on endogenous hormone production. Without estrogen to trigger negative feedback, while using Anavar we seem to note a higher threshold before inhibition is noted. But at higher dosages of course, a suppression of natural testosterone levels will still occur with Anavar as with any anabolic/androgenic steroid.

Remeber if you are a endurance athlete i'm assuming your weight isn't extremely high most of these tests are done on BB who weigh much more than you probablly so what is a low dose for them might actually be a high dose for your body weight thus negating the above comments for no shutdown.



I really think you need to research more not knowing that mega-trn will cause shutdown especially on this board where the inventor himself has posted. there is no reason for you to believe mega-trn is non-hormonal or will not cause shutdown.

 

[preston25]

Stay the hell away from clen. Albuterol works great, really opens the lungs. You will get a better affect with b-12 if you inject it.

 

[preston25]

Also, check out the herb hong jing tian, aka rhodiola. The typical store bought is worth it because most of it contains fillers. I research data that confirm sustantial benifits to rbc. Pharmacuetical grade about 1000mg ed is perfect. In tibet this root is called the herb of life. Clients of mine have shown amazing improvements in the bloodwork.

 

[jmh80]

I've said it once - I'll say it again.

DROP THE IDEA OF NO SHUTDOWN!
Jesus!

 

[Ekse]

ah mixedup, ok cool,
i went to the Generic Labz website which has no info about it.
I saw an active compound slip on a bottle that said 17b-methoxy-trienbolone, so i thought it was methoxyisoflavone.

Ok, this is good info, so a Prostanozol and TRN cycle would need a more comprehensive PCT than just the Nolva for a Prostan standalone. There is a lot of info here on the forums for PCTs, so finding one wont be too difficult.

Preston25, there has been indeed so many chinese, tibet, russian and other herbs that have been used by thousands of years that have made it to the stores. I am not considering those at the moment, as it opens a list that can go on for a few pages (including Amino acids, vitamins e.t.c), and the various opinions on what really works and what doesent starts to grow long aswell.

My bottom line i guess is building unmatched muscle endurance/power from very very high rep work in the gym. This has worked for me before. For example doing squats, about 8 sets of 50 reps with 150lbs. And a usual day of about 70-100 miles on the bike the next day, and having done 50 miles of hard hills that day.

So this is where the need for more powerful compounds come in (other than protein shakes and aminos), but not the fully fledged bodybuilding style compounds.

 

[preston25]

My personal experience with racing in europe, i know a lot of guys did low dose test prop, and igf-1. Pantani was known for taking igf. doping as its called is everywhere, especially in Belgium. I dont consider it cheating just leveling the playing field. Bjarni Riis whos team i trained with earlier in the year had the knickname Mr 68 or something like that for hemotocrit level. The activate, rebound might be a great option. Also check out dhea. Ive been taking it for a long time with great results.

 

[Innings Eater]

:head: Thanks to you guys for even having the balls to bring up this idea of exchanging info re: "enhanced" endurance athletes. I've been know to try a "tri" or even a marathon a few times per year.

 

[fatsuperman]

The "be a man" club who insists that you must pin have a lot of points, I can still remember feeling like "god" pumped up on deca and test injected. I did that stuff when I was younger like 15 years ago, I got abscess from a bad injection, and had to go to a downtown clinic where they wouldn't scold me or turn me in.

I also had a buddy who got pinned in a sciatic nerve and limps to this day because of this. I know my experiences were a little out of the ordinary but after that I said I would never do AAS again. So i understand why some avoid pins.

Recently I decided to try the AAS Route again (age is making it tough) to get gains. The all oral route is risky too considering the hepatoxicity. For that reason I've selected transdermals as a way to go perhaps in combo with limited orals.

I know some think transdermals are a waste of good hormone but I'm a few years older and now I can afford to waste a couple extra bucks. If you are worried about the toxicity of orals perhaps consider incorporating some transdermals in your cycle.

 

[preston25]

Ekse, im finishing a nha cycle with great results. Activate, rebound reloaded and lean extreme. Good recovery on the bike, good strength gains in the weight room. Cycled with igf-1lr3 is great!. Its worth a try and no sides with great health benefits.

 

[CHAPS]

If your going the oral route which isn't the smartest by the way then Anavar, Turinabol and Superdrol are all good choices.

 

[preston25]

For an endurance athlete the pumps from superdrol may be too much. Plus if your going to get tested the nha may work, because of no detectable synthetic.