clen issue ... Paging Dr. D

[glenihan]

alright i had been running clen for 9 days i worked my way up to 140mcg which was too strong so i backed down to 120mcg ... then this past wednesday night came and i COULD NOT fall asleep until 6AM and that was only until 7:15AM .. i felt pretty shitty during the day thursday but after my workout i REALLY started to feel horrible ... feverish, achey, headache, nauseous (to the point of vomitting) ... around 10:00PM i was laying and bed and my heart LITERALLY felt like it was going to jump out of my chest (heart rate was around 140) so i did some searching and found for a clen overdose (i know i didn't overdose) it said go to the ER tell them you took your friends asmtha (sp) medication (controlled released albuterol) and then tell them you aren't an asthmatic and they should put you on a beta blocker and you'll be fine ... this is exactly what i did (only problem was i did have juvenille asmtha)

so i get to the ER told them i couldn't sleep the night before and i was an idiot and took my friends asthma meds and now my heart won't stop racing . . . BP was fine (106/63) heartrate was 144! . . . gave me an ekg and after about an hour i finally saw a doctor they gave me an IV with saline but didn't want to give me a beta blocker since i had been a juvenille asthmatic ... instead they gave me something called adavair (sp) this REALLY helped to calm me down and mellow me out .... i felt a ton better .. but my heartrate was still around 118 ... doc said it should get better

well this was thursday night and here it is sunday morning and my heartrate is still around 120ish ... now i'm not feeling any discomfort but i would REALLY like my resting heartrate to go back to normal (65-70) ... i should mention friday i was still sick as dog and could not hold down any food (all i ate was a banana, 1 diet gingerale, and 2 powerades) saturdays i felt better but was still nervous about eating, and sunday (today) i feel much much better ... except for my heartrate

so .... what can i do / should i do in order to get my heartrate back to normal? or will it just require a few more days?

 

[GymRat06]

I dont have a clue what to do bro but hope everything gets better for ya man, stuff like that can be scary!

 

[Beowulf]

Damn, that is a scary story. Is clen that much better than EC that it is worth these risks? Good luck.

 

[LCSULLA]

I hope you are not still taking then Clen, bro? And clen has a longer halflife then people suspect. When I used it I never went above 60mcg and I still feel the effects a day latter.

And for me I like Clen alot more then EC, the EC hurts my prostate. ANd peeing is like an Olympic event.

 

[follower]

Weel, seems that you don't go well with clen! Some people do some don't! Like i say earlier i can go trought 160/180mcg with no mutch sides at all!
First of all, relax! I will be fine, don't you worry too mutch about that because that will contribute for you beeing nervous and that woun't allow you to sleep any better! Let some day's run, and you will be perfectly fine!
You should reconsider not use clen in the future, or at least not high doses! You just need to find your perfect dose!
You can also use it along with ketotifene, these medication will rise it's thermo effects and you will be able do lower your dose of clen with the same thermo effects! And it will also clear up your recptors, so you can use it for longer periods of time!

You will get better soon, but you also need to relax!! And eat, don't throw away your diet bro!

 

[glenihan]

lol don't worry LCSCULLA i'm not using it anymore ... follower i wasn't eating because i literally couldn't, anything i ate i simply threw up ... and i'm sure at some point i'll be fine ... i just want to know if there are any steps i can to lower my heartrate quickly .. because its still around 120

 

[Nate Dawg]

Thats a scary incident, kind of making me rethink if I want to use my clen or not, maybe I will only go up to 80mcg, just have to see how it goes. This reminds me, last fall I had a friend who was wanting to lose some weight and he got some clen, I layed out the entire cycle for him, starting at 20mcg and slowly ramping up, he only made it to the second day of the cycle and was still at 20mcg, he threw up several times that day and had to leave class because he just couldnt sit still. He quit the cycle after that. Hope everything gets better for you glen, keep us posted.

 

[acecombact1]

why 140mcg bro, that alot.........limit of you can use is 100-120mcg and that when your receptors downregulates and you cant feel it anymore. some people start with 20 and stay at 60mcg with good results.

 

[glenihan]

why 140mcg bro, that alot.........limit of you can use is 100-120mcg and that when your receptors downregulates and you cant feel it anymore. some people start with 20 and stay at 60mcg with good results.

where are you pulling 120 as the upper most limit? many people go close to 200 and are absolutely fine ... i was doing just fine at 120 until hell broke out and in hindsight i should have stayed away from clen period ... but for many people they can go well above 120 and do just fine

i did the standard ramp up and everything ... i knew what i was doing ... my body just didn't respond to it very well over the long run ... live and learn

ANYWAY back to my question ... is there anything i can do to lower my heartrate?

 

[acecombact1]

where are you pulling 120 as the upper most limit? many people go close to 200 and are absolutely fine ... i was doing just fine at 120 until hell broke out and in hindsight i should have stayed away from clen period ... but for many people they can go well above 120 and do just fine

i did the standard ramp up and everything ... i knew what i was doing ... my body just didn't respond to it very well over the long run ... live and learn

ANYWAY back to my question ... is there anything i can do to lower my heartrate?

for heart and increased BP try hawthorne berry extract, limit sodium intake, drink tons of water, and limit your cardio for a while.

i dont know where you got info from, but typical clen cycle limited to 120mcg ed. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catclen.htm
http://www.forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=82680

200mcg is a kill, but i know there are many freaks out there whol are willing to take every thing to the limit.

anyway i dont like clen, either. ECA is good enough for me.

 

[glenihan]

for heart and increased BP try hawthorne berry extract, limit sodium intake, drink tons of water, and limit your cardio for a while.

i dont know where you got info from, but typical clen cycle limited to 120mcg ed. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catclen.htm
http://www.forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=82680

200mcg is a kill, but i know there are many freaks out there whol are willing to take every thing to the limit.

anyway i dont like clen, either. ECA is good enough for me.

ok thanks for trying to help BUT hawthorne berry and limiting sodium intake are great for getting BP down but as i stated in my original post my BP is 106/63 ... its fine ... what i wanted to know is what can i do to lower my heartrate quicker ... hawthorne berry isn't going to do that (at least it hasn't been shown to in any studies i have seen)

as for a "typical clen cycle" i don't know that there is a general consensus since tolerance varies so greatly from person to person

 

[DmitryWI]

5-HTP?

 

[glenihan]

5-HTP?

forgive my ignorance, but can you elaborate?

 

[Zero Tolerance]

To get your heartrate down, you're just going to have to rest... I have a history of supraventricular tachycardia (wilkes parkinson white syndrome) and was in the hospital with 300+ beats per minute.. The nurse freaked out but I lived every time. No caffeine - but I'm sure you already know that.. No chocolate... No soda.. No tea.. Nothing with caffeine...

I've since had a cathedre ablation done (laser surgery) and my heart is nearly perfect now... But don't worry, I've had my heartrate up way high on many occassions, skipping beats, double beats, for days at a time - and I turned out okay.

 

[size]

Do you have any anxiety issues? This may be part of the problem.

 

[Grant]

Clen messes me up too man, I used to be able to take it just fine, up to 140mcgs, now my heart feels like its gonna jump out of my chest with 60. Try using clen in a local transdermal, like lipoderm, it works better then regular lipo without the systemic sides, same 2 week on 2 week off cycle. Put about 1400mcgs in a 8oz bottle, good stuff. I also never run oral clen without hawthorn, coq10, and sesathin, mainly as a safety net but it still is not pleasant. Give it a few more days, you will be back to normal soon. Are you on anything else?

 

[Syr]

I know why i stay away from clen

 

[DmitryWI]

forgive my ignorance, but can you elaborate?

I don't know if will help much, but it might calm you down a bit, make get relaxed and may be it will help you with heart rate down. also you can try valerian extract. Good luck.

 

[ryansm]

It sounds like th Er doc gave you Ativan, a Benzo usually perscribed for anxiety as it causes you to calm down. It's a derivitive of valium, strong stuff and used often in the ER.

I have anxiety problems, and it sounds like the clen caused you to experience an anxiety attack. I'm sure you are going to be fine, but it will take any number of days or weeks for you to get back to normal. At this point you may want to try to drink a beer, or have a shot and see if this helps your heart rate lower. I know it sounds funny, but the beer will act on your Gaba levels just like Ativan does. So this may help (temporarily lower it). Discontinue any stimulants like caffiene, green tea, nicotine, anything as this will only aggrivate, and prolong the situation. Another option is Sam-e, or Rhodiola Rosea. Also get a product called Slow-mag, it's a Magnesium Chloride supplement that you can get at any local drug sotre. It helps with normal heart function and was suggested to me by my cardiologist. Hawthorne Berry actually does help lower your heart rate after a long time of use, which I don't think is what you are looking for. Just give it some time, and chalk this up as a lesson to stay away from clen. Let me know how it turns out bro.

 

[ryansm]

To get your heartrate down, you're just going to have to rest... I have a history of supraventricular tachycardia (wilkes parkinson white syndrome) and was in the hospital with 300+ beats per minute.. The nurse freaked out but I lived every time. No caffeine - but I'm sure you already know that.. No chocolate... No soda.. No tea.. Nothing with caffeine...

I've since had a cathedre ablation done (laser surgery) and my heart is nearly perfect now... But don't worry, I've had my heartrate up way high on many occassions, skipping beats, double beats, for days at a time - and I turned out okay.

Scared the sh*t out of me the first few times I experienced it. Good to know I'm not the only one here that's had the problem.

 

[glenihan]

thanks a ton for the advice ryansm, ativan sounds like what they gave me ... i've NEVER had an issues with anxiety before so i don't know if this is related to that ... good news is my heartrate is down to 110 today so it's slowly getting back down

you're right though just learned the hardway about clen ... i'll let everyone know how the HR is in a few days thanks for all the help

 

[ryansm]

That's the thing, neither have I until recently. I also used to have a high tolerance for stims, or any drug for that matter, now it's the complete opposite.

 

[exnihilo]

Heh, sorry to hear about your situation glenihan, I've been trying to push people away from clen (and stuff like T3 and DNP/UA) for a while now - it's really a crappy drug IMO, compared to other stuff out there for body composition. Nandi has posted some very interesting studies done on albuterol, but I have yet to see the anecdotal evidence from people in the community to support it... Still keeping it on the back burner. High dose DHEA might also be of benefit, given some of the data that has been posted around here, I'm going to give that one a try when I finish up this current cycle and get a month or so into PCT.

Stay safe man.

 

[glenihan]

thanks everybody ... exnihilo i would think albuterol should work basically the same as clen, its a very similar compound only with a much shorter half life so i imagine the dosing would have to be more frequent

anyway i'm staying away from all that crap

most recent heartrate was 98 so i'm getting better

 

[ryansm]

You don't need it anyway. Bobo should get you to the next level.

 

[DR.D]

Damn Glen, why the f didn't you PM or email me! Clen has a long ass half life. Once you over shoot the dose, you have to take a beta, CCB or alpha to control the pulse rate while it clears your system. If you don't have that, start OD'ing on potassium, it does work and acidify your system with Ammoium Chloride(found at dime stores as a cheap hair colorant or in some OTC herbal water pills) or Vitamin C(ascorbic acid). Then start drinking DI water, not tap. Clen has an amine structure and can be forced from your body by acid diuressis. That just means get acidic and start drinking water, also taking 40-80meq K/day in divided doses too to protect that pulse rate, then start looking for some Atretol or Clonidine or something. This is just like having nolva on hand for gyno or antibiotics on hand for pinning probs.. ALWAYS have some cardiac drugs on hard for T3 or clen OD, because the t1/2 is very long, but if not, remember the other tricks I told you about. Potassium is a direct cardiac depressant. Are you any better now bro? If the nausea is gone, it's pretty much over.

 

[ryansm]

Potassium is a direct cardiac depressant.

I knew I was forgetting something. Good thing your around Phat Daddy!

Best way to get this is buying the salt substitute utilizing Potassium Chloride. The pill form is limited thanks to big pharma.:hammer:

 

[glenihan]

Damn Glen, why the f didn't you PM or email me! Clen has a long ass half life. Once you over shoot the dose, you have to take a beta, CCB or alpha to control the pulse rate while it clears your system. If you don't have that, start OD'ing on potassium, it does work and acidify your system with Ammoium Chloride(found at dime stores as a cheap hair colorant or in some OTC herbal water pills) or Vitamin C(ascorbic acid). Then start drinking DI water, not tap. Clen has an amine structure are can be forced from your body by acid diuressis. That just means get acidic and start drinking water, also taking 40-80meq K/day in divided doses too to protect that pulse rate, then start looking for some Atretol or Clonidine or something. This is just like having nolva on hand for gyno or antibiotics on hand for pinning probs.. ALWAYS have some cardiac drugs on hard for T3 or clen OD, because the t1/2 is very long, but if not, remember the other tricks I told you about. Potassium is a direct cardiac depressant. Are you any better now bro? If the nausea is gone, it's pretty much over.

wow thanks so much for the response Doc ... i really should have PMed you but i wasn't really thinking ... my first move was to the ER anyway like i said ... thankfully all the nausea is gone and my heart rate is still decending slowly but surely (just checked its 88)

hopefully this will be very helpful to those in the future that have a similar problem ... i researched the HELL outta clen before i used it and i don't recall once running across anything saysing to Atretol or Clonidine on hand ... hopefully this will serve to educate others

btw is Clonidine the same thing as Clonazapin (sp)?

thanks again for the help doc

 

[DR.D]

No prob bro, and Ryan is correct, you gotta eat so many 99mg Potassium G. pills or bananas, it's easier just to use KCl water softener tabs (that's what I do) Clozapine is a mild "anti-psychotic" but they only call it that because it's a anti-dopaminergic tri-cyclic. It's really just a sedative, but Klonopin(clonazepam) is a strong benzo used for sedation as well. I would not think that they would be as well applied as Clonidine for accute cardioacceleration, but they would definately not hurt anything if it's all you had. You did the right thing, when in doubt don't be a tough guy, get to the hospital (I know, I know, I really am not one to talk here, but I hate ER's!) and give them just the info they need to fix you. You can try and clean it up later.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

....This is just like having nolva on hand for gyno or antibiotics on hand for pinning probs.. ALWAYS have some cardiac drugs on hard for T3 or clen OD, because the t1/2 is very long, but if not, remember the other tricks I told you about. Potassium is a direct cardiac depressant. Are you any better now bro? If the nausea is gone, it's pretty much over.

Dr. D...I hate to say it, but I smell another sticky in the OTC room! LOLOL.

Whad'ya say?

Glen, glad to hear things are going much better for you. That woulda freaked me the hell out having a resting pulse of 130beat/min!!!

 

[size]

Poor responses are why I no longer use stimulants. ECA made me feel as if I was dying. I was able to tolerate clen much better than an ECA, but ultimately I decided it was not worth the risk/feeling like ****. Instead I did more cardio

Glad you are feeling better.

 

[DR.D]

Dr. D...I hate to say it, but I smell another sticky in the OTC room! LOLOL.

Whad'ya say?

Glen, glad to hear things are going much better for you. That woulda freaked me the hell out having a resting pulse of 130beat/min!!!

Maybe your right, it has always amazed me that more people didn't have more issues with clen sides. A few guys have PM'ed me about accute OD before, but this **** isn't like albuterol or ephedride, its got a ~36hr T1/2, so if you take too much, it's going to get scary and you need a game plan. Unfortunately, they don't sell beta blockers OTC like Vet anti-biotics. I'll have to get clever with this sticky, but in the meantime, do what I suggested and/or get to the ER, especially if resting pulse exceedes the 120-160 range. 180 is all out cut-off no matter what! When I use clen, it's usually 2 or 3 days on, then 1 day off just to level off. Then I'll pick back up where I feel I need it, at 10mics or 40 or whatever, but I never use it more that 3 straight days for just this reason, it can creep up on you and get ugly!

 

[ryansm]

And it's not any fun. Trust me.