GDAs/NPs in conjunction with Insulin (Humulin-R) Administration

[Outstanding]

With the current crop of novel compounds comprising the recent release-frenzy of GDAs (Glucose Disposal Agents) and NPs (Nutrient Partitioners), there is still a lot to be learned and applied as we continue to dissect this very intriguing and promising class of nutraceutical formulations.

I'd like to take a look at the specific application of GDAs/NPs in conjunction with Insulin injections, Humulin-R, which should in effect/theory augment the overall efficacy and raw in vivo power of Insulin's already well documented uncontested Anabolic potential.

*Since this topic discusses and pertain to the implementation of OTC additives/products paired with the Pharmaceutical preparation Insulin, I would respectfully suggest that only the educated senior members with a well developed perspective of GDAs/NPs, Insulin, or BOTH offer up their methods, philosophies, and recommendations pertaining to the concurrent use of the collective of GDAs (proprietary products, or raw powders) with Insulin, in order to eventuate the highest possible anabolic yield as well as adipogenesis avoidance possible.

Timing, Dosing, as well as nutrient (carbohydrate intake) levels all play a synergistic and crucial role in the full circle implementation of Insulin as an anabolic non-diabetic treatment in concert with AAS and lipolytic compounds to enhance the end result of an always anabolic efficient nutrient shuttling physique.

Please offer up your directives and theories regarding the optimal methods of increasing Insulin's anabolic capacity while limiting the possible fat accrual often associated with Insulin use.

Some basic rules I have followed in the past which can serve as a starting block to achieve the aforementioned goals:
- NEVER consume direct dietary sources of fat until the documented duration of in vivo activity of the insulin injected has been exhausted
- NEVER consume less than 7g of carbohydrates per iu of Insulin administered
- ALWAYS consume creatine, whey iso/hydro, copious amounts of BCAAs/EAAs, and Dextrose (or equivalent) as the first immediate meal following injection
- Follow up the immediate liquid high-GI meal with a moderate sized no-fat whole-food meal after 60 minutes
- Concerning Humulin-R, peak endogenous activity is realized at hour-2, which would be the optimal time to consume the last directly Insulin-related and structured whole-food meal (still no fat)
- Limit amount of fat in Pre Workout Meal (since the dietary fat consumed stands a good chance of still being present after earlier ingestion and not completely assimilated once the workout is completed and Insulin increases the likelihood for amplifying fat storage)

Plausible Products to Implement/Discuss (Owners, Loggers, and Representing Athletes also please contribute!)
-Glycobol
-Recompadrol
-Slin Sane
-Slin Shot
-r-ALA (or) na-r-ALA
-Corosolic Acid (20%)
-HCA (50-60%)
-Cinnamon/Cinnulin (or any other standardized extract)
-Vinegar

 

[emiliozapata]

I understand the reason you have chose humulin r for this, however, humalog, though not available otc, would still be easy enough to procure, and would greatly enhance safety and ease timing issues significantly. IMHO anything but Humalog has unsafe pharmacodynamics to be used, especially in conjunction with GDA's. my .02$

 

[flightposite]

bump

 

[strategicmove]

An interesting list of products and compounds. Incomplete, though. Wonder what the selection crIteria were.

 

[Outstanding]

An interesting list of products and compounds. Incomplete, though. Wonder what the selection crIteria were.

I listed what came to my mind as I typed, ha - nothing scientific or sponsored in any way, just really wanted to get the discussion underway.

Also, PLEASE feel more than free to add any compounds you feel would augment the overall power of Insulin/sensitivity; I am not overly concerned about the direction of my threads, or 'hijacking' as some members call it, as long as it leads down an enlightening/productive path related to the original content.

 

[Outstanding]

I understand the reason you have chose humulin r for this, however, humalog, though not available otc, would still be easy enough to procure, and would greatly enhance safety and ease timing issues significantly. IMHO anything but Humalog has unsafe pharmacodynamics to be used, especially in conjunction with GDA's. my .02$

Well, just replace the Humulin-R with Humalog... and type away! Humulin-R is as easy as going to the drug store and asking for a vial with a box of sharps, literally that easy; once taking the UG route, you have to wire money, go to Western Union (or similar) use your name, show your ID etc etc...

Be that as it may... please don't let the type of Insulin and the hour or two difference in peak activity in the body dissuade you from sharing your thoughts on all the questions I posed in my original post please...............

bump

Thanks! I thought this would stir up some extremely intriguing discourse, considering Humulin-R is the single most anabolic compound when used accordingly and can be easily and cheaply acquired over the counter (OTC), and GDAs/NPs comprise countless threads here on Anabolic Minds and represent a new and exciting sect of nutrient and lean tissue partitioning and accrual.

 

[oufinny]

You left off Anabolic Pump by USP and Slin by LG Sciences. I think these both have to be included, even more so then some of the newer products that may be just a flash in the pan. Both have been around and have anecdotal evidence to back their effectiveness. Just something to think about.

 

[emiliozapata]

right off the top off my head i would say most of these that work as GDAs would be redundant in the presence of thee grandaddy of all GDAs insulin itself. What you want to look at is any of these that increase insulin sensitivity of target tissues to drive nutrients (called facilitated transport in biochem terms) into the right cell types i.e. muscle cells versus adipose, a concept you already alluded to.

This being the case I would think Anabolic Pump and it's constituent compounds would be where to begin playing around as that is the theorized MOA.

I myself am experimenting with cinnamon extract and mustard powder, nothing too scientific, just casual observance. Real study like you are after will require a good glucometer and some detailed notes.

I am also looking at albion chelated vanadium.

 

[sanchezgreg18]

I dont know what every one of them would do but pretty sure recompadrol would minimize the fat gained on insulin aswell as minimize the decrease in insulin sensitivity due to the humalog.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

right off the top off my head i would say most of these that work as GDAs would be redundant in the presence of thee grandaddy of all GDAs insulin itself. What you want to look at is any of these that increase insulin sensitivity of target tissues to drive nutrients (called facilitated transport in biochem terms) into the right cell types i.e. muscle cells versus adipose, a concept you already alluded to.

This being the case I would think Anabolic Pump and it's constituent compounds would be where to begin playing around as that is the theorized MOA.

I myself am experimenting with cinnamon extract and mustard powder, nothing too scientific, just casual observance. Real study like you are after will require a good glucometer and some detailed notes.

I am also looking at albion chelated vanadium.

Probably important to note here that both GLUT4 translocation to the cell periphery and expression of the GLUT4 gene were increased in the presence of both berberine (AP's primary pharmacologically active compound) and insulin than in control (insulin alone) in several trials.

This is due to differing MOAs at work: berberine has a dose-dependent effect on AMPk phosphorylation (as well as phosphorylating some of its upstream activators [AMPKk/CAMBk]) as well as effecting other key indicators of glucose homeostasis (PEPCK, hexokinase enzymes) independently of insulin, whereas glucose transport from insulin is dependent upon the PI3K/Atk/IR pathway. This allows for berberine to have a significant potentiating effect on total glucose provision and intracellular energy metabolism in combination with insulin.

On a related note, certain trials (I believe the Lee et al study on stimulating L6 myotubes) have displayed increased expression of GLUT4 gene and total protein in myotubes, and not in adipocytes, though this data has not been repeated extensively. More importantly, both berberine and the primary constituents of banaba extract (corosolic and tannic acid, in particular) are well known regulators of key fat metabolic transcription factors such as the PPAR family (gamma2 and alpha, namely) and several of their target genes (UCP1, G3PD, GyK, etc).

 

[crazyfool405]

Probably important to note here that both GLUT4 translocation to the cell periphery and expression of the GLUT4 gene were increased in the presence of both berberine (AP's primary pharmacologically active compound) and insulin than in control (insulin alone) in several trials.

This is due to differing MOAs at work: berberine has a dose-dependent effect on AMPk phosphorylation (as well as phosphorylating some of its upstream activators [AMPKk/CAMBk]) as well as effecting other key indicators of glucose homeostasis (PEPCK, hexokinase enzymes) independently of insulin, whereas glucose transport from insulin is dependent upon the PI3K/Atk/IR pathway. This allows for berberine to have a significant potentiating effect on total glucose provision and intracellular energy metabolism in combination with insulin.

On a related note, certain trials (I believe the Lee et al study on stimulating L6 myotubes) have displayed increased expression of GLUT4 gene and total protein in myotubes, and not in adipocytes, though this data has not been repeated extensively. More importantly, both berberine and the primary constituents of banaba extract (corosolic and tannic acid, in particular) are well known regulators of key fat metabolic transcription factors such as the PPAR family (gamma2 and alpha, namely) and several of their target genes (UCP1, G3PD, GyK, etc).

great post brodizzle, havent seen you doing much posting, its nice to see it.

BERBERINE would work very well with insulin imo. helping attenuate fat gain minimize adipocyte differentiation.

 

[emiliozapata]

mullet's post supports my post nicely!

 

[Outstanding]

great post brodizzle, havent seen you doing much posting, its nice to see it.

BERBERINE would work very well with insulin imo. helping attenuate fat gain minimize adipocyte differentiation.

I got Soldier to come out of the shadows eh? Haha, I'm glad he did (repped)

So Berberine is your compound of choice? What would the timing and dosage be, in regards to a 10iu injection of Humulin-R?

Also, aside from any suggestions on nutraceuticals that increase insulin's activity in the body (and also enhance sensitivity), are there any compounds that should be AVOIDED, for example anything that inhibits proper glucose metabolism or assimilation and uptake (starch blocker), or would interfere with the Insulin spike by leveling the GI/rapidity of digestion of Dextrose etc that might be included in the above/any proprietary blends? (Phase-2 comes to mind)

THANKS to all for the great posts so far!

 

[Outstanding]

I got Soldier to come out of the shadows eh? Haha, I'm glad he did (repped)

So Berberine is your compound of choice? What would the timing and dosage be, in regards to a 10iu injection of Humulin-R?

Also, aside from any suggestions on nutraceuticals that increase insulin's activity in the body (and also enhance sensitivity), are there any compounds that should be AVOIDED, for example anything that inhibits proper glucose metabolism or assimilation and uptake (starch blocker), or would interfere with the Insulin spike by leveling the GI/rapidity of digestion of Dextrose etc that might be included in the above/any proprietary blends? (Phase-2 comes to mind)

THANKS to all for the great posts so far!

BUMP (please see above)

 

[Outstanding]

-Aside from a faster response and slightly more unpredictable peak activity threshold of Insulin when injected INTRAMUSCULARLY, are there any other reasons why it is commonly discouraged to inject IM in the medical community? (I have only ever done Sub-Q, and always rotate sites, making sure not to re-inject in the same location more than once per week)

-Are there any promising/proven products that can normalize and revitalize insulin sensitivity after disuse of injected exogenous insulin, akin to Clomid/HCG intervention after an AAS cycle?

 

[crazyfool405]

I got Soldier to come out of the shadows eh? Haha, I'm glad he did (repped)

So Berberine is your compound of choice? What would the timing and dosage be, in regards to a 10iu injection of Humulin-R?

Also, aside from any suggestions on nutraceuticals that increase insulin's activity in the body (and also enhance sensitivity), are there any compounds that should be AVOIDED, for example anything that inhibits proper glucose metabolism or assimilation and uptake (starch blocker), or would interfere with the Insulin spike by leveling the GI/rapidity of digestion of Dextrose etc that might be included in the above/any proprietary blends? (Phase-2 comes to mind)

THANKS to all for the great posts so far!

starch blocker wont be a problem.

probably would want to avoid some things that are antagonist of insulin though

 

[crazyfool405]

-Aside from a faster response and slightly more unpredictable peak activity threshold of Insulin when injected INTRAMUSCULARLY, are there any other reasons why it is commonly discouraged to inject IM in the medical community? (I have only ever done Sub-Q, and always rotate sites, making sure not to re-inject in the same location more than once per week)

-Are there any promising/proven products that can normalize and revitalize insulin sensitivity after disuse of injected exogenous insulin, akin to Clomid/HCG intervention after an AAS cycle?

anything like AP, Recompadrol, Glycobol all help with insulin sensitivity, and those can and should be ran after a cycle of insulin IMO

 

[Outstanding]

starch blocker wont be a problem.

probably would want to avoid some things that are antagonist of insulin though

Such as? Thanks

anything like AP, Recompadrol, Glycobol all help with insulin sensitivity, and those can and should be ran after a cycle of insulin IMO

What about while on-cycle of Insulin? I have been experiencing some very good gains using GDAs concurrently with Humulin-R.

 

[crazyfool405]

Such as? Thanks



What about while on-cycle of Insulin? I have been experiencing some very good gains using GDAs concurrently with Humulin-R.

while on with insulin and the same meal you may have to cut insulin requirement by 75% of what u were using, unless you eat more carbs to satisfy your blood sugar.

 

[Outstanding]

while on with insulin and the same meal you may have to cut insulin requirement by 75% of what u were using, unless you eat more carbs to satisfy your blood sugar.

What supplements reduce IS (or are antagonistic, as you stated) that I would want to avoid?

By the way... received Recompadrol in the mail yesterday... It all goes down starting Monday!

 

[MAxximal]

DHEA suppresses your body’s ability to synthesize fat from carbohydrate. Not only this, it redirects glucose from anabolic fat production to catabolic energy metaboils. The net effect is that it tends to speed your metabolism which ensures that your body is able to burn more stored fat quick and fast which makes you lose weight.

 

[crazyfool405]

What supplements reduce IS (or are antagonistic, as you stated) that I would want to avoid?

By the way... received Recompadrol in the mail yesterday... It all goes down starting Monday!

anything that increases insulin resistance on cycle IE GH. or just too much GH.

but you have GDAs, so that would help in that rrespect aswell. so no need to worry to much bout it.