Danes
Well-known member
Yes. Containing different components. If you look some post above (wrote earlier ) you will know what we mean
You're not hard till - 1/4tsp 100:1 longjack
- Thread starter BeardedBreast
- Start date
Yes. Containing different components. If you look some post above (wrote earlier ) you will know what we mean
Danes
Well-known member
I have seen study where guys was running 8 months without break and it was still effective. But It would not be bad idea running 5 days on and 2 days off. Or 8 days on and 3 days off
thebigt
Legend
TONVARA TA:
I ran this over 2 months straight with only a day or 2 off once in awhile. the libido results SEEMED TO DROP considerably after 14 days, but the mood and energy enhancement remained consistent. on days I did take off, like blood tests for example I noticed that libido dropped and mood/energy drop was felt-so even though I thought libido dropped it just wasn't as noticeable after being on for awhile.
I started at 1 cap am/1 cap afternoon, and after a week went to 3 caps a day for rest of the run.
I ran this over 2 months straight with only a day or 2 off once in awhile. the libido results SEEMED TO DROP considerably after 14 days, but the mood and energy enhancement remained consistent. on days I did take off, like blood tests for example I noticed that libido dropped and mood/energy drop was felt-so even though I thought libido dropped it just wasn't as noticeable after being on for awhile.
I started at 1 cap am/1 cap afternoon, and after a week went to 3 caps a day for rest of the run.
Danes
Well-known member
warbird01
Well-known member
Yes. Containing different components. If you look some post above (wrote earlier ) you will know what we mean
Just re-read the whole thread after your clerifications. I get it now! Thanks!
gonna order some TA and possibly some Muira Puama
Krav
New member
Tonvara or Powder City 2% would be my recco. There is a difference between HP Ingredients LJ100 and these two. Danes likes the high Eurycomanone content of the first two I listed. I'm on my 3rd week of Tonvara. Anecdotally, the 1st week seemed to have my libido through the roof, then it tapered - but I haven't been too strict with cycling (off days). My chest/scalp (but not back for some reason) has completely broken out with acne as well - same thing happens when I'm on a SERM - so there's one N=1
600 mg o 1200 mg (1 or 2 capsules) by day?
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
I deferred to Danes for dosing. He told me two weeks at 2 caps a day, 5 on, 2 off. Then 3 caps/day for the rest of the 8 weeks, 5 on, 2 off.
Danes
Well-known member
Sounds good
Someone would be very sensitive to TA. So maybe even 1 cap will "destroy" their sleep ++.
But 2 cap is a good "start" then incease to 3
kisaj
Legend
That makes sense. You need to cycle- I'm actually surprised it lasted as long as it did with only a couple days off.
Danes
Well-known member
Very differently from person to person. Some people does not need to cycle it . Like my self
Danes
Well-known member
I have seen russian study done on TA and people with hypogonadism . 3 months after the serum T and Free T was increased up to 80% . They didnt cycle it at all. I will make a experiment on TA . Taking it 2 months without cycling and after 2 months cycling (5 days on and 2 days off or 8 days on snd 3 days off).
muscleupcrohn
Legend
If we're still talking about tongkat ali, this study actually showed greater improvements in libido after 12 weeks than 6 (300mg/day Physta).
Invalid Link Removed
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I'd probably cycle it after a maximum of 12 weeks, but it should still have work up until then. But everyone is different.
Danes
Well-known member
The cycling like 5 days on and 2 days off is more for the energy-effect than T boosting effect. I havent seen any studies on humans where it show TA to be more effective with short cycles than without.(i am thinking of T levels)
I bet you remember the study :
"two-month study in Asian males with hypogonadism and late-onset of hypogonadism (LOH) aged between 28–70 years, showed that a daily intake of 200 mg of E. longifolia water extract improved LOH expressed by a significant decrease in Aging Males Symptoms score (AMS) and increased serum testosterone levels
While before treatment only 10.5% of the patients did not show any complaint according to the AMS scale and 35.5% had normal testosterone levels, after the completed treatment 71.7% and 90.8% of the patients showed normal values, respectively. Thus, Tongkat ali extract appears to be useful as a supplement in overcoming the symptoms of LOH and for the management of hypogonadism."
thebigt
Legend
you need to re-read my post..#53. what I said was libido seemed to drop off after 14 days, BUT when I took a few days off it actually did drop. in essence what happened was I had become used to the higher libido, so it did not seem as high.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Ok.
There's also a study showing mood improvements and reductions in stress after 4 weeks of 200mg/day Physta.
Even if it does lose some potency in regards to noticeable effects with continued daily use, at least there's a good bit of research showing it's safe to use a relatively extended period of time.
Danes
Well-known member
I have alleays said the short cycles are just "made up" . Never seen any studies proving better effect of TA during short cycles.
I peronaly would take a break after 12 weeks
muscleupcrohn
Legend
This. Even if you do a 5/2 day split, you should still cycle off every so often anyway. I would not run a 5/2 day split indefinitely.
Danes
Well-known member
On your own labs?
So you are saying all study done on TA where people was dosing it every day cant be compared to your own lab tests ?
Show me ONE .just one study where short cycles are more effective.
With daily dose it is proven to help people suffer from hypogonadism.
Danes
Well-known member
I am not saying short cycles is NOT working for some But if you read studies done on TA for hypogonadism, ferility, gym performance +++, TA was consumed every single day. And for most people, it can be used everyday without short cycles.
Invalid Link Removed. (Up to 9 month long study).
And you maybe know this :
S. Hamzah, A. Yusof.
Department of Exercise Physiology, Sports Centre, University of Malaya, 50603 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
"The British Journal of Sports Medicine reported that in a double-blind placebo controlled scientific trial, the use of tongkat ali extract resulted in*a 5% increase in lean body mass in the user*group, while no significant changes were observed in the placebo group"
TA was given every day.
But if you have lab test showing that short cycles worked MUCH better than taking it every day, then you have found something which is working for you. And thats great.
I just find it funny where some internet pages have the info "take 5 days on and 2 days off". Where is that information coming from? Its nothing than made up. Just with laxogenin "increasing proteinsynthesis 200%". And where is that coming from ?
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Do whatever works for you, but, as we all said, it's different for some people than others. Multiple studies show that daily use for 4-12 weeks is effective, and even that some benefits are more noticeable after 12 weeks than 6 weeks. The total sample size in these studies is significantly larger than your personal experience, so to say that you disagree with that use of TA for the average person (not just you) because of your personal experience doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Perhaps you could recommend that people try it that way, especially if they notice diminishing effects with daily use, but to say that the method of administration found to be effective in multiple studies is wrong doesn't make sense to me. I assume you still cycle off TA completely once in a while? Or do you do 5/2 days indefinitely for years?
kisaj
Legend
It's only you two that are arguing about this so perhaps you should relax. And "we all" aren't saying anything other than you. What I know is that cycling works best for me and those that I know that use it. Studies mean nothing in this case.
Tell you what, you follow the few studies and I'll follow what I know works best for me. Now we can end it.
Tell you what, you follow the few studies and I'll follow what I know works best for me. Now we can end it.
Danes
Well-known member
It's only you two that are arguing about this so perhaps you should relax. What I know is that cycling works best for me and those that I know that use it. Studies mean nothing in this case.
Tell you what, you follow the few studies and I'll follow what I know works best for me. Now we can end it.
I am totaly relaxed
Me and many other I have given TA to, they felt GREAT taking it everyday for 12 weeks.
Just dont understand where the 5 days on and 2 days off comes from.
I mean if Tongkat Ali was a compound which NEEDED to be cycled in short cycles, , all those studies wouldnt have positive effects from T boosting +++.
Anyway, I am really glad you found what works best for you.
BeardedBreast
Active member
How many mg a day are we talking of 100:1 and in how many doses per day?
thebigt
Legend
I am totaly relaxed
Me and many other I have given TA to, they felt GREAT taking it everyday for 12 weeks.
Just dont understand where the 5 days on and 2 days off comes from.
I mean if Tongkat Ali was a compound which NEEDED to be cycled in short cycles, , all those studies wouldnt have positive effects from T boosting +++.
Anyway, I am really glad you found what works best for you.
I personally vouch for this!!!
Danes
Well-known member
I remember, 8 years ago a doctor from India told me the 5on and 2off is just made up. There is no one study proVing that and all studies (even new ones are based on each day dose).
So , i really wanted to refresh this and I send email to Dr.Tambi (one of doctors who is known for studies such as :
"Standardised water-soluble extract of Eurycoma longifolia, Tongkat ali, as testosterone booster for managing men with late-onset hypogonadism"
"Tongkat Ali as a potential herbal supplement for physically active male and female seniors"
Eurycoma longifolia Jack in managing "idiopathic male infertility."
My question:
It is some questions I really would like to ask you because there are some false claiming/rumors.
Is it really nessesary to cycle the Tongkat ali(taking short cycles). Some People are saying it Works best if taking 5 days on and 2 days off. Ifnot, then the effect will "decrease".*Did patients in Your study cycle Tongkat ali? (In the studies it was written "each day"), and do you know anything about those short Cycles?
Answer from Dr.Tambi:
In all my studies and others as well, the supplements were given continously.What you hear about cycling tongkat ali is just 'hearsay'.
To all TA users, if your libido decrease after 10 days, it really does not mean the effect of TA has decreased . It can be many reasons why libido drop. So if you want to know 100% how you react to TA best (short cycles or not) bloodwork IS needed.
But as we can see, in all studies TA is taken everyday and it works .
Danes
Well-known member
Its proving that 5on and off(like some companies are recommending without having any proof). is just made up BUT we do respond differently and different doses etc is not bad idea at all
5on and 5 off worked for you and thats great. You found it thanks to lab tests and I wish more people did lab tests.
kisaj
Legend
I'm just messing with you.
I too believe that 5/2 is just a suggestion because there is no proof of a certain number of days on/off is better than another. I've tried 4/3, week on/week off, and 1on/1off, but never got any labs to tell me one is better. For me, 5/2 works for effect,convenience (to just take during the work week), and labs (staying on TA for 6 weeks increased my SHBG, e2 and lowered my free test from previous labs without it and when cycling, I had the desired numbers with lower SHBG and really high free test).
I too believe that 5/2 is just a suggestion because there is no proof of a certain number of days on/off is better than another. I've tried 4/3, week on/week off, and 1on/1off, but never got any labs to tell me one is better. For me, 5/2 works for effect,convenience (to just take during the work week), and labs (staying on TA for 6 weeks increased my SHBG, e2 and lowered my free test from previous labs without it and when cycling, I had the desired numbers with lower SHBG and really high free test).
Danes
Well-known member
Its great you did labs and it seems like your body some how "react" to TA differently than average guy.(taking it week after week each day).
Have you been playing with different doses ?
drseuss6969
Member
how much of the powder city tongkat ali standardized for 2% do I take?
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
Danes
Well-known member
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
You did a great job
Thanks. But if it's 200:1, would you want to go 100mg-150mg? Or stay at 200-300?
Danes
Well-known member
I would go for 300-400 mg.
drseuss6969
Member
With or without food? or doesnt matter?
Danes
Well-known member
It does not matter at all
BeardedBreast
Active member
Did anyone mention if best to divide doses?
Danes
Well-known member
If taking 200mg then 100mg twice daily.
If taking 600mg, take 200mg 3 times daily.
If taking 800mg, take 200mg 4 times daily
thebigt
Legend
yohimbine