Your highest testosterone cycle

[Alistair_]

Anyone with experience with test only cycles, can you tell me the maximum dose you got up to until you could no longer make anymore lean mass gains?
I’ve trained natural for 15 years and have been enhanced for the last 3, blasting and cruising. I have maintained all of my gains even on cruises. I’m having a hard time gaining on my current cycle of 700mg of testosterone cypionate and based on your experience, would it be worth it to go up to 800mg a week or should I just except that this is as far as my genetics want to go with testosterone only?

 

[Hyde]

Test isn’t particularly anabolic. It’s cheap and available, but you would definitely get more bang by adding a more anabolic compound on top. Since you’ve probably already been blasting for some weeks if asking this question, you may not have time for something like EQ or Deca to even build up and lower if you added it right now, but you could add something like a few hundred mg/wk of NPP, Mast, or an oral of your choice for the next 6 weeks. Tbol, Var, Msten, DMZ, Winny are all good dry 6 week options for a boost to finish out strong.

 

[CroLifter]

Test isn’t particularly anabolic. It’s cheap and available, but you would definitely get more bang by adding a more anabolic compound on top. Since you’ve probably already been blasting for some weeks if asking this question, you may not have time for something like EQ or Deca to even build up and lower if you added it right now, but you could add something like a few hundred mg/wk of NPP, Mast, or an oral of your choice for the next 6 weeks. Tbol, Var, Msten, DMZ, Winny are all good dry 6 week options for a boost to finish out strong.

I keep hearing the "test isnt very anabolic" a lot and it makes me excited for my next cycle which will be a stack compared to my previous one which was basically test cycle.

But i just dont know. There are also those who say test is all you need.

I think it is best to try for oneself and then compare before judging, hence going with test/19 nor/dht stack this time around, but keeping total mg's similar to a test only cycle.

 

[Alistair_]

Test isn’t particularly anabolic. It’s cheap and available, but you would definitely get more bang by adding a more anabolic compound on top. Since you’ve probably already been blasting for some weeks if asking this question, you may not have time for something like EQ or Deca to even build up and lower if you added it right now, but you could add something like a few hundred mg/wk of NPP, Mast, or an oral of your choice for the next 6 weeks. Tbol, Var, Msten, DMZ, Winny are all good dry 6 week options for a boost to finish out strong.

Thank you for the reply. EQ is a no go for me. It would cause me some anxiety issues and I don’t like that it has been linked to IBS and it’s terrible for the kidneys as well. Test is more anabolic and safer than EQ. Nandrolone is a bad steroid in my book as well. Terrible for the heart and has been liked to ALS and sexual problems. There are some orals I’ve never tried like d-bol and anadrol but I’d rather not mess with them either.

I’ve bumped the test to 850mg and if that doesn’t do it then I’m done blasting. I’ll cruise on TRT and try to get leaner.

 

[CroLifter]

Nandrolone is touted to be damaging to blood vessels as it causes way more calcium retention than testosterone, hence hardening of the arteries, but i havent heard it is especially damaging to the heart muscle. Both test and nandrolone will cause cardiac hypertrophy anyway.

I heard supplementing with vitamin k would help as far as hardening of the blood vessels go, at least to an extent.

 

[lvft1213]

Test isn’t particularly anabolic. It’s cheap and available, but you would definitely get more bang by adding a more anabolic compound on top. Since you’ve probably already been blasting for some weeks if asking this question, you may not have time for something like EQ or Deca to even build up and lower if you added it right now, but you could add something like a few hundred mg/wk of NPP, Mast, or an oral of your choice for the next 6 weeks. Tbol, Var, Msten, DMZ, Winny are all good dry 6 week options for a boost to finish out strong.

What do you mean it isn’t anabolic? Because the forums seem to be two differing opinions one is that testosterone will put on a ton of mass at the right dose and the other is it’s not that great. I’d like to avoid the sides that come with test. I aim to be decently big 220/230 and would like to fetch there avoiding test above 500 if possible

 

[Mathb33]

I was very very excited couple months ago when I tried my first high test cycle only and what is said is true. It’s not particularly anabolic. Of course a newbie will gain insane amount of muscle but after that it’s meh. The higher you go the more water it is actually. And this comes from a guy that holds 0 freaking water and doesn’t aromatize much.

 

[Hyde]

It’s just not as strong an anabolic as many other substances that were engineered later as derivatives of test. At some point it makes more sense to add other anabolics in vs just upping the test dose, as sides will get worse than the improvement in gains at some point.

 

[Hyde]

It’s just not as strong an anabolic as many other substances that were engineered later as derivatives of test. At some point it makes more sense to add other anabolics in vs just upping the test dose, as sides will get worse than the improvement in gains at some point.

 

[Mathb33]

Im at a point where I think the best thing is to keep test relatively low, add other injectables that kick in fairly fast and keep it within 8-10 weeks. For the vast majority of people gains stall at the 9-10 weeks mark anyways and people just keep bumping calories and end up just gaining fat past that level.

 

[CroLifter]

...For the vast majority of people gains stall at the 9-10 weeks mark anyways and people just keep bumping calories and end up just gaining fat past that level.

Agreed 100%. From now on shorter cycles with high replacement test dose and short estered anabolics.

 

[Mathb33]

Agreed 100%. From now on shorter cycles with high replacement test dose and short estered anabolics.

100%. More gains and safer imo. This summer I’m exactly starting this new protocol. I’ll be runner 8 weeks ON. 8 weeks OFF. 8 weeks ON then off 3-4 months. I already know gains will be better and it’s obviously allowing the body to relax inbetween instead of a 16-20 weeks straight cycle

 

[CroLifter]

100%. More gains and safer imo. This summer I’m exactly starting this new protocol. I’ll be runner 8 weeks ON. 8 weeks OFF. 8 weeks ON then off 3-4 months. I already know gains will be better and it’s obviously allowing the body to relax inbetween instead of a 16-20 weeks straight cycle

16-20 weeks on would be pointless imho unless you were gradually increasing the doses.

even then, 8 on 8 off 8 on seems like it would produce more actual gains and is sth i would roughly do if i was on 4 life (because off in your case means still a respectable high normal test level).

 

[Alistair_]

I was very very excited couple months ago when I tried my first high test cycle only and what is said is true. It’s not particularly anabolic. Of course a newbie will gain insane amount of muscle but after that it’s meh. The higher you go the more water it is actually. And this comes from a guy that holds 0 freaking water and doesn’t aromatize much.

I’ve been taking at least 600mg a week for 8 weeks and went up to a gram last week and I’m not holding much water and I’m a high aromatizer. I run pharma grade test and it makes a huge difference in bloat based on my experience. I once switched from UGL crap made in someone’s kitchen to pharma grade mid cycle and I lost all my bloat. I have used several different UGL’s and it made no difference, they all bloated the crap out of me.

 

[Alistair_]

It’s just not as strong an anabolic as many other substances that were engineered later as derivatives of test. At some point it makes more sense to add other anabolics in vs just upping the test dose, as sides will get worse than the improvement in gains at some point.

Yes this is the better way to say it. Test is a great anabolic. However, nandrolone is slightly more anabolic and Tren is a lot more.

The problem is with our body producing higher amounts of myostatin the more steroid induced lean mass we put on cycle after cycle

I don’t get nasty sides from very high test as long as my dose of AI is on point. I have no acne, minimal hair-loss, good energy and great sense of well-being. I feel horrible on just about any other AAS.

can 400mg of test plus 400mg of nandrolone outperform a gram of test? I’d love to see a study (but that’s never going to happen).

 

[Alistair_]

It’s just not as strong an anabolic as many other substances that were engineered later as derivatives of test. At some point it makes more sense to add other anabolics in vs just upping the test dose, as sides will get worse than the improvement in gains at some point.

Yes this is the better way to say it. Test is a great anabolic. However, nandrolone is slightly more anabolic and Tren is a lot more.

The problem is with our body producing higher amounts of myostatin the more steroid induced lean mass we put on cycle after cycle

I don’t get nasty sides from very high test as long as my dose of AI is on point. I have no acne, minimal hair-loss, good energy and great sense of well-being. I feel horrible on just about any other AAS.

can 400mg of test plus 400mg of nandrolone outperform a gram of test? I’d love to see a study (but that’s never going to happen).

 

[Mathb33]

Yes this is the better way to say it. Test is a great anabolic. However, nandrolone is slightly more anabolic and Tren is a lot more.

The problem is with our body producing higher amounts of myostatin the more steroid induced lean mass we put on cycle after cycle

I don’t get nasty sides from very high test as long as my dose of AI is on point. I have no acne, minimal hair-loss, good energy and great sense of well-being. I feel horrible on just about any other AAS.

can 400mg of test plus 400mg of nandrolone outperform a gram of test? I’d love to see a study (but that’s never going to happen).

Have you been in this game for a while? Real life experiment is sometimes what you need, no a study. Go try for yourself what 400mg test + 600NPP(that’s just an exemple) will do for you compared to 1g of test. Just go read a little about the thousands of thousands of people that tried it. or the vets of this forum. You don’t need a study you need to look back at the last 20 years and see what was tried and what worked best.

 

[WANTED]

Following

 

[Mathb33]

Do we see any pro / high level bodybuilders running around doing cycle of high test only? No absolutely not. None of them are. They are all stacking. Here is your real life study right there. 1g of test will never build as much lean tissue as a stack of test/npp test/deca test/Tren and whatnot

 

[Alistair_]

Do we see any pro / high level bodybuilders running around doing cycle of high test only? No absolutely not. None of them are. They are all stacking. Here is your real life study right there. 1g of test will never build as much lean tissue as a stack of test/npp test/deca test/Tren and whatnot

I’m talking terms of maximum gains and minimal side-effects. Of course the pros run multiple grams of various anabolics.

 

[Alistair_]

Do we see any pro / high level bodybuilders running around doing cycle of high test only? No absolutely not. None of them are. They are all stacking. Here is your real life study right there. 1g of test will never build as much lean tissue as a stack of test/npp test/deca test/Tren and whatnot

I’m talking terms of maximum gains and minimal side-effects. Of course the pros run multiple grams of various anabolics.

 

[Mathb33]

I’m talking terms of maximum gains and minimal side-effects. Of course the pros run multiple grams of various anabolics.

No I’m talking gram per gram. Not comparing beer and whisky. I’m saying if any pros had to use 1g they would use a stack anyday. over 1g of test. And I’m on test 365 days a year and whoever thinks high test is safe on the body is lying to himself. High test puts a relatively high stress on the cardiovascular system. That has nothing to do with being side free. I understand you’re running high test so you’ll defend that side of the story and I never said high test wasn’t great and didn’t work. There’s just better options.

 

[Carnivorecon]

Well the old adage is "test is best" but people think if something rhymes it must be true, I've always understood that 1+1=3 with gear as different compounds shine in different ways and a stack is greater than the sum of its parts. OP you do seem to have limited yourself with your list won't do's

 

[kisaj]

It’s just not as strong an anabolic as many other substances that were engineered later as derivatives of test. At some point it makes more sense to add other anabolics in vs just upping the test dose, as sides will get worse than the improvement in gains at some point.

Man, thank you! I get into this on other boards all the time when I tell people asking about test cycles, that if they aren't newbs, that they will be better served leaving test under 500mg and adding in something more anabolic. 4 out of 5 guys will then argue about adding in "too many variables" and test only is the way to go.

It just isn't widely understood and everyone thinks test is the king of anabolics.

 

[Mathb33]

Man, thank you! I get into this on other boards all the time when I tell people asking about test cycles, that if they aren't newbs, that they will be better served leaving test under 500mg and adding in something more anabolic. 4 out of 5 guys will then argue about adding in "too many variables" and test only is the way to go.

It just isn't widely understood and everyone thinks test is the king of anabolics.

No, thank YOU.

 

[Alistair_]

No I’m talking gram per gram. Not comparing beer and whisky. I’m saying if any pros had to use 1g they would use a stack anyday. over 1g of test. And I’m on test 365 days a year and whoever thinks high test is safe on the body is lying to himself. High test puts a relatively high stress on the cardiovascular system. That has nothing to do with being side free. I understand you’re running high test so you’ll defend that side of the story and I never said high test wasn’t great and didn’t work. There’s just better options.

Talking gram per gram, yes you are correct. Perhaps I failed to explain that the side effects from 19 nors are more than I want to deal with and the point of my thread was asking if anyone has done multiple test solo cycles like 500, 600, up to 750 and then maybe a gram, and if a gram was a game changer or only slightly better with diminished returns. I’m not arguing with you on potency mg per mg. I agree with you. I’m 42 and have been training since age 14. At this stage in life I take the health risk very serious and have no interest feeling like crap on cycle.

 

[Mathb33]

Talking gram per gram, yes you are correct. Perhaps I failed to explain that the side effects from 19 nors are more than I want to deal with and the point of my thread was asking if anyone has done multiple test solo cycles like 500, 600, up to 750 and then maybe a gram, and if a gram was a game changer or only slightly better with diminished returns. I’m not arguing with you on potency mg per mg. I agree with you. I’m 42 and have been training since age 14. At this stage in life I take the health risk very serious and have no interest feeling like crap on cycle.

Makes sense!

 

[Alistair_]

Man, thank you! I get into this on other boards all the time when I tell people asking about test cycles, that if they aren't newbs, that they will be better served leaving test under 500mg and adding in something more anabolic. 4 out of 5 guys will then argue about adding in "too many variables" and test only is the way to go.

It just isn't widely understood and everyone thinks test is the king of anabolics.

Side effects can vary a lot person to person. I have a friend that does not do well with high test but he did fine on a reasonable dose of tren. I never said test was king, it’s for me the most friendly to my system.

the too many variables you argue about it only for new users in their first cycle or second cycle.

 

[kisaj]

Side effects can vary a lot person to person. I have a friend that does not do well with high test but he did fine on a reasonable dose of tren. I never said test was king, it’s for me the most friendly to my system.

the too many variables you argue about it only for new users in their first cycle or second cycle.

This was not specific to you, it was a general comment because many people look at test the same way.

 

[CroLifter]

Talking gram per gram, yes you are correct. Perhaps I failed to explain that the side effects from 19 nors are more than I want to deal with and the point of my thread was asking if anyone has done multiple test solo cycles like 500, 600, up to 750 and then maybe a gram, and if a gram was a game changer or only slightly better with diminished returns. I’m not arguing with you on potency mg per mg. I agree with you. I’m 42 and have been training since age 14. At this stage in life I take the health risk very serious and have no interest feeling like crap on cycle.

From my experience 650mg of test is not noticeably better than 500mg.

I mean it could be, but i certainly didnt notice.


Btw which side effects from 19 nors worry you the most? Potential prolactin induced gyno issues?

I mean, i have some tren ace, but for this exact reason (i am sensitive to prolactin i got gyno from mk677) i dont count on it to be my primary muscle builder, but rather sth that i will try out as a boost towards the end of my cycle and what i can discontinue quickly if sides get out of control.


@Mathb33 what do you mean by test being very harsh on cardiovascular system? You mean compared to other substances?

because as far as cholesterol goes, test is pretty mild from my experience.

 

[Mathb33]

From my experience 650mg of test is not noticeably better than 500mg.

I mean it could be, but i certainly didnt notice.


Btw which side effects from 19 nors worry you the most? Potential prolactin induced gyno issues?

I mean, i have some tren ace, but for this exact reason (i am sensitive to prolactin i got gyno from mk677) i dont count on it to be my primary muscle builder, but rather sth that i will try out as a boost towards the end of my cycle and what i can discontinue quickly if sides get out of control.


@Mathb33 what do you mean by test being very harsh on cardiovascular system? You mean compared to other substances?

because as far as cholesterol goes, test is pretty mild from my experience.

You’re absolutely right I love test for being so mild and gentle on lipids and general health markers but 1G test ++ will start to hit lipids, RBC and hemoglobins pretty hard. At least it did for me, and mostly everyone I know that ran it.i had to donate in my last high test cycle and 1 months and a half later it was high again. 600NPP did not even raise it for me, nor does 500mg test for several months. Sadly it’s hard for us to find true studies about such stuff so we kind of have to talk about our own experiences. For me it was hard to accept but high test sucks except for beginners and it wasn’t user friendly at all for me. It just wasn’t a great run. I’m now a firm believer of the same cycle style you often talk about. 300-350 test at MOST. another muscle building agent at a higher dose and I’ll keep it 8-10 weeks. For exemple my two next cycles for the year 2020 will be 250test/600-700NPP. And 200test/250-300 Tren.

 

[CroLifter]

Well, to say "cycle style i talk about" sounds weird to me hahaha as i am still a newbie as far as actual time "under the pin" goes. Majority of the time i spent on just 100mg of test lol as i am a paranoid fuk.

And if i somehow manage to justify the cost of primo...i would be excited to run a drier cycle than the previous one. I got this test and tren...considering that the cost of primo alone is higher than everything else i plan to run is unappealling...but i sure as hell dont want to run even a low dose of tren ace with 500mg test...i have a feeling sides, especially nipple sensitivity would suck big time...and with mk677 in the mix..,oh man...c cups for sure,

I liked to praise test only because i had some issues with other compounds and test only made me feel good and gains were decent.

But tbh to get a real gauge on my test only cycle i just need to take a look at some of the selfies i made at the time.

Let's just say that taking a glance at the selfie from that period in the evening after a rough day at work is enough to give me a good laugh and make me forget about the hardships of man...at least for a little while

 

[drew60]

I do not think raising the test will make a huge difference. Maybe some but not a lot. A lot of times people think they are hitting a plateau because the gear isn't doing the job anymore but the issue is they are not feeding the body with enough nutrients to keep growing. For example if you gain 10 pound in the first 4 weeks your now at a new caloric maintenance. To keep growing you have to keep pushing calories.

 

[Mathb33]

I do not think raising the test will make a huge difference. Maybe some but not a lot. A lot of times people think they are hitting a plateau because the gear isn't doing the job anymore but the issue is they are not feeding the body with enough nutrients to keep growing. For example if you gain 10 pound in the first 4 weeks your now at a new caloric maintenance. To keep growing you have to keep pushing calories.

That’s very true. The main factor that makes people stop growing is myostatin. People just forget about this little beast but it’s here in everyone’s cycle every time.

 

[CroLifter]

I didnt gain a single rep after week 8 on test enanthate which is supposed to be slow acting. I started gainin pretty fast, during week 2 i had some strength gains and after 20 days strength exploded and i had round delts by week 4.

so i guess when it comes to myostatin i am doomed (c3po voice).

 

[drew60]

Yes myostatin is a definitly a real thing so not trying to down play it. But at the same time you could push growth for way way longer then most people think. Eventually you gotta back down but I usually wont hit that point till about 10000 calories which sucks big time lol.

 

[Alistair_]

@CroLifter I don’t like 19 nors because they are more damaging to the heart and they cause a lot of sexual problems in a lot of users. Plus they make some users feel miserable on cycle. Hard to juggle a full time job with over-time, a family and trying to train 6 days a week (on cycle) when you feel like garbage. No offense to anyone who likes 19 nors, they just aren’t for me.

 

[Alistair_]

That’s very true. The main factor that makes people stop growing is myostatin. People just forget about this little beast but it’s here in everyone’s cycle every time.

Agree 100% myostatin is a pain in the a$$.
You can try to eat 1000 over maintenance and you’ll just gain fat.

 

[Alistair_]

You’re absolutely right I love test for being so mild and gentle on lipids and general health markers but 1G test ++ will start to hit lipids, RBC and hemoglobins pretty hard. At least it did for me, and mostly everyone I know that ran it.i had to donate in my last high test cycle and 1 months and a half later it was high again. 600NPP did not even raise it for me, nor does 500mg test for several months. Sadly it’s hard for us to find true studies about such stuff so we kind of have to talk about our own experiences. For me it was hard to accept but high test sucks except for beginners and it wasn’t user friendly at all for me. It just wasn’t a great run. I’m now a firm believer of the same cycle style you often talk about. 300-350 test at MOST. another muscle building agent at a higher dose and I’ll keep it 8-10 weeks. For exemple my two next cycles for the year 2020 will be 250test/600-700NPP. And 200test/250-300 Tren.

After looking and reading through some old steroid profiles written by Bill Roberts, he said that in his experience, once you get up to 750mg of test a week, the risk vs reward isn’t worth it anymore. This is on point with your experience and this is the kind of feedback I was looking for, so thank you.

 

[Hyde]

After looking and reading through some old steroid profiles written by Bill Roberts, he said that in his experience, once you get up to 750mg of test a week, the risk vs reward isn’t worth it anyone. This is on point with your experience and this is the kind of feedback I was looking for, so thank you.

John Meadows has publicly stated that he does not like his test higher than 750mg/wk due to diminishing returns - from there it’s other compounds.

 

[CroLifter]

@CroLifter I don’t like 19 nors because they are more damaging to the heart and they cause a lot of sexual problems in a lot of users. Plus they make some users feel miserable on cycle. Hard to juggle a full time job with over-time, a family and trying to train 6 days a week (on cycle) when you feel like garbage. No offense to anyone who likes 19 nors, they just aren’t for me.

And that is where we run into issues. That "other" anabolic which is usually suggested as being better to add than to just increase the test dose is in 90% of the cases a 19 nor.

but other than primo, i cant think off other anabolics which could be added to a test cycle which are easier on the body than test.

19 nors, orals or eq ... that is what we are left with.

Hence i asked about clostebol in another thread ut got no response, which would basically be a non aromatizeable, non to very low 5 alpha reducible anabolic.

if we could design a steroid with same properties like anavar but which would be injectable, that would be a good option.

Sooo, there is an option of running enough ai and introducing finasteride as you up your test dose, those 2 drugs in essence make the test a "cleaner" anabolic. However they have sife effects of their own.

for example ai's wreck lipids (however mine stay normal even on hefty doses of aromasin). But i dont think that taking a certain dose of test and an ai would cause one's lipids to be any worse than if someone took a lower dose of test and added another non aromatizing compound in essence keeping estrogen levels the same.

 

[Mathb33]

And that is where we run into issues. That "other" anabolic which is usually suggested as being better to add than to just increase the test dose is in 90% of the cases a 19 nor.

but other than primo, i cant think off other anabolics which could be added to a test cycle which are easier on the body than test.

nah man you’re missing the whole idea!!It’s not simply what’s less or more toxic. yes 19nors are more "toxic than test" but you want less of a compound in you. That’s why stacking injectables is better than solos at a very high dose. At least that’s what bloodworks tend to show

 

[CroLifter]

nah man you’re missing is the whole idea!!It’s not simply what’s less or more toxic. yes 19nors are more "toxic than test" but you want less of a compound in you. That’s why stacking injectables is better than solo solos at a very high dose. At least that’s what bloodworks tend to show

What specific part of the bloodwork are you reffering to? When it comes to injectables, lipids are usually what takes the largest hit, and liver enzymes rarely with some like tren.

Weird that we dont have injectable androstanes (test analogs) available that dont aromatize or reduce.

For example clostebol (4 chloro test) or 6 bromo/6 chloro testosterone. I liked 6 bromo it felt like a very mild steroid to me, and as far as i am aware it converts to 6 bromo testosterone. Made me a bit stronger and aggressive while at the same time i got tighter (ai properties).

When you think about it, some good designers could be made from prohormones.

If i had the resources, i would go and do conversions of 6 bromo and formestane to get the actual steroid they convert to.

I believe those (4 hydroxytest from formestane and 6 bromo test from 6 bromo) would have favourable A:A ratios and wouod produce nice dry gains.

We need an affordable, injectable androstene that doesnt aromstize or 5 alpha reduce to use a s a complimentary anabolic imho.

Masteron, while being dht, seems like a favourable 2nd anabolic. It doesnt convert to estro and since it is already dht, supposedly it has a favourable 2.5:1 A:A ratio.

Hence why i decided to use it alongside test. However, what is terribly disappointing about it, is the fact that it builds no muscoe, from my experience. It is just a cosmetic with high mental sides for me.

 

[Hyde]

And that is where we run into issues. That "other" anabolic which is usually suggested as being better to add than to just increase the test dose is in 90% of the cases a 19 nor.

but other than primo, i cant think off other anabolics which could be added to a test cycle which are easier on the body than test.

19 nors, orals or eq ... that is what we are left with.

Hence i asked about clostebol in another thread ut got no response, which would basically be a non aromatizeable, non to very low 5 alpha reducible anabolic.

if we could design a steroid with same properties like anavar but which would be injectable, that would be a good option.

Sooo, there is an option of running enough ai and introducing finasteride as you up your test dose, those 2 drugs in essence make the test a "cleaner" anabolic. However they have sife effects of their own.

for example ai's wreck lipids (however mine stay normal even on hefty doses of aromasin). But i dont think that taking a certain dose of test and an ai would cause one's lipids to be any worse than if someone took a lower dose of test and added another non aromatizing compound in essence keeping estrogen levels the same.

Aromasin has been studied to be generally little to no impact on lipids. It’s letro and anastrazole that hurt lipids.

 

[Mathb33]

@CroLifter basically RBC,hemo,lipids got hit more on 900-1g of test than it did when I stacked compounds. ALSO another important fact some people don’t consider enough is resting heart rate and BP. On a cruise dose my HR is 55ish and my BP is 120/58. (That’s on 250 test) when I used test/deca and test/npp or test/primo it was SLIGHTLY elevated 125 to 130 on 65 to 70 and 65-70 HR. On a high dose test my HR was 80-90 and my BP was 140ish++-70. Even SD, msten,dmz,dbol,m1a never elevated my BP like this. Also I saw you mention masteron.. it’s quite good but It’s very very hard on lipids, up there with tren. A lot of bodybuilders put it in the top3 hardest thing on lipids. Not as friendly user as some say.

 

[CroLifter]

@CroLifter basically RBC,hemo,lipids got hit more on 900-1g of test than it did when I stacked compounds. ALSO another important fact some people don’t consider enough is resting heart rate and BP. On a cruise dose my HR is 55ish and my BP is 120/58. (That’s on 250 test) when I used test/deca and test/npp or test/primo it was SLIGHTLY elevated 125 to 130 on 65 to 70 and 65-70 HR. On a high dose test my HR was 80-90 and my BP was 140ish++-70. Even SD, msten,dmz,dbol,m1a never elevated my BP like this. Also I saw you mention masteron.. it’s quite good but It’s very very hard on lipids, up there with tren. A lot of bodybuilders put it in the top3 hardest thing on lipids. Not as friendly user as some say.

The high androgen side of all that test converting to dht is imho what increased your resting heart rate. Think trenbolone.

I guess had you used finasteride, sides would have been less.

As far as bp goes, unless you were holding more water on high test compared to test/nandrolone, i wouod say that high androgen from all that test was causing some form of vasoconstriction perhaps?

Think tren, it causes vasoconstriction, hence increases in bp without you holding extra water.

Interestingly enpugh, my lipids were in range on mast and i was abusing aromasin too at that time. But then again, i only used 200-300mg mast per week.

take a look at this:

Antiandrogenic therapy with finasteride attenuates cardiac hypertrophy and left ventricular dysfunction - PubMed

Finasteride, which is currently used in patients to treat prostate disease, potently reverses pathological cardiac hypertrophy and dysfunction in mice and might be a therapeutic option for heart failure.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yeah...i know. It is in mice. But it says how additional dht puts extra stress and promotes further cardiac hypertrophy on top of just testosterone.
And blocking dht shouodnt in theory reduce muscle gains by much, as dht is pretty inactive in muscle tissue.

 

[Mathb33]

The high androgen side of all that test converting to dht is imho what increased your resting heart rate. Think trenbolone.

I guess had you used finasteride, sides would have been less.

As far as bp goes, unless you were holding more water on high test compared to test/nandrolone, i wouod say that high androgen from all that test was causing some form of vasoconstriction perhaps?

Think tren, it causes vasoconstriction, hence increases in bp without you holding extra water.

Interestingly enpugh, my lipids were in range on mast and i was abusing aromasin too at that time. But then again, i only used 200-300mg mast per week.

take a look at this:

Antiandrogenic therapy with finasteride attenuates cardiac hypertrophy and left ventricular dysfunction - PubMed

Finasteride, which is currently used in patients to treat prostate disease, potently reverses pathological cardiac hypertrophy and dysfunction in mice and might be a therapeutic option for heart failure.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yeah...i know. It is in mice. But it says how additional dht puts extra stress and promotes further cardiac hypertrophy on top of just testosterone.
And blocking dht shouodnt in theory reduce muscle gains by much, as dht is pretty inactive in muscle tissue.

I’ll take a look when I eat in a few minutes! Also good point, I was holding a good 7-8 lbs of water which I NEVER do usually so it certainly didn’t help

 

[CroLifter]

I did some research and it seems that there are non c 17 alkylated designers on the market.

1. Hexadrone
2. Furuza 50

They are both marketed as oral non methylated prohormones, but in fact they are active steroids with poor oral bioavailability. Both should nnot aromatize nor reduce, therefore they should posess more favourable a:a ratios than testosterone.

It would be definitely interesting to see them converted to an iniectable and perhaps esterified with sth like an acetate ester, quick in quick out, to make them more user friendly, id est less iniections needed but also able to discontinue if sides arise since those are unresearched compounds.

that being said, i would like to try out clostebol.

 

[Alistair_]

Aromasin has been studied to be generally little to no impact on lipids. It’s letro and anastrazole that hurt lipids.

Yes and I don’t understand this new trend of gurus going around spewing that AI’s are so toxic. I keep asking them to please tell me what is wrong with using Aromasin to keep estrogen is healthy range, as my lipids always come back good in blood work and
they never reply. They could at least specify that certain AI’s are better then others.

 

[UNX]

I don't understand why there is injectable superdrol but not injectable hexadrone. I would love to try it.