Unanswered will epicatechin products add any muscle gains ? not endurance or fat lose...

costelum

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will epicatechin products add any muscle gains ? not endurance or fat lose... a honest answer ?
 
ValiantThor08

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A epi product by itself is iffy due to poor bioavailability. Get an ARA product, proven to aid in hypertrophy.
 

_Endure_

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Everyone reacts differently to these natural compounds so try it yourself and see.
 
ValiantThor08

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Go get a transdermal epicatechin product then if you wish to try. I believe that would be the best way to get it.
 

_Endure_

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^ For myself epi is a shredder/cutter/aesthetic which is fine as I'm not into bulking agents. It doesn't build mass per-se on me and I don't hear a lot of the same from others but again everyone is different.
 

costelum

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^ For myself epi is a shredder/cutter/aesthetic which is fine as I'm not into bulking agents. It doesn't build mass per-se on me and I don't hear a lot of the same from others but again everyone is different.
thank you
 
ValiantThor08

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Epicatechin is touted as a myostatin inhibitor, so if your are near your genetic potential, it could potentially help you add more lean body mass through myostatin inhibition.
 

Jeremyk1

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I wouldn’t expect much. I’ve heard from some reliable sources that transdermal is most likely the best bet for absorption, and that it’s really not a great muscle builder. Wouldn’t hurt, but I don’t see it contributing a lot to actual muscle growth.
 
LeanEngineer

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Everyone reacts differently to these natural compounds so try it yourself and see.
Agreed. Best bet is to try it out for yourself and see what type of results you get. Everyone will have a different experience and have their own opinion on any one given product. I'd say pick up a good epicatechin product and run it for 8 weeks.
 

Tight1

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I use Follidrone as it has a good absorption package (I'm not affiliated with BLR). I wouldn't say I get bigger on it, it's a very lean product Epi. But as others have said, absorption is key. Works great for me as i don't ever bulk either.
 
soxbsbll05

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Best Epi product I've tried to date is Ep1logue and I was honestly surprised by the results while on a cut. Follidrone is pretty good as well but does not compare to Ep1logue. Culd be the Uro B or Vaso6 in the Ep1logue though.

Not sure why everyone keeps recommending TD Epi. Epi taken orally works as well, it just depends on the individual to be honest. Some people respond well to it (such as myself) and some others do not. Same thing goes for laxo, which I get absolutely nothing from.
 
EMPIREMIND

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will epicatechin products add any muscle gains ? not endurance or fat lose... a honest answer ?
I have to be honest my man. I’ve seen a lot of your threads and it seems you are trying to look for something that gives great results with little to no side effects. I have to be honest with you, because I think you will be disappointed. The key to this is long term consistency. Eat properly, sleep properly and train properly. Keep progressing with everything. Over time your lifts should go up, you should be eating more food, sleeping more to recover, and your body comp should change to favor more muscle and less fat. These three things comprise 95+% of the entire process. Supplements can give you 1-5%, but even 5% can be wishful thinking. I would love to recommend you CNP Legendary, but I really have a feeling you are looking for something you won’t find and I don’t want to steer you wrong. Just keep training hard, eating enough food and sleep sleep sleep to grow.

If you have any questions, pm me, I’m glad to help!
 

costelum

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I have to be honest my man. I’ve seen a lot of your threads and it seems you are trying to look for something that gives great results with little to no side effects. I have to be honest with you, because I think you will be disappointed. The key to this is long term consistency. Eat properly, sleep properly and train properly. Keep progressing with everything. Over time your lifts should go up, you should be eating more food, sleeping more to recover, and your body comp should change to favor more muscle and less fat. These three things comprise 95+% of the entire process. Supplements can give you 1-5%, but even 5% can be wishful thinking. I would love to recommend you CNP Legendary, but I really have a feeling you are looking for something you won’t find and I don’t want to steer you wrong. Just keep training hard, eating enough food and sleep sleep sleep to grow.

If you have any questions, pm me, I’m glad to help!
yes you right ... this is the way , and this it what i will do now on thank you very musch !
 
Wobmarvel

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I have to be honest my man. I’ve seen a lot of your threads and it seems you are trying to look for something that gives great results with little to no side effects. I have to be honest with you, because I think you will be disappointed. The key to this is long term consistency. Eat properly, sleep properly and train properly. Keep progressing with everything. Over time your lifts should go up, you should be eating more food, sleeping more to recover, and your body comp should change to favor more muscle and less fat. These three things comprise 95+% of the entire process. Supplements can give you 1-5%, but even 5% can be wishful thinking. I would love to recommend you CNP Legendary, but I really have a feeling you are looking for something you won’t find and I don’t want to steer you wrong. Just keep training hard, eating enough food and sleep sleep sleep to grow.

If you have any questions, pm me, I’m glad to help!
Great advice. Before experimenting with anything from herbals to full blown gear you have to be doing everything right. Only then will adding in natural anabolics/muscle builders will you progress at a slightly faster rate or if you nail a gear cycle even faster then beyond your natural potential. It still takes years. Everyone who plans their first cycle, or even there first few cycles think "this is the one, I'm 180lbs now and I'll do this cycle and be 210lbs and shredded cos I've read the reviews and epi/H-DROL/superdrol (whichever) adds 20 lbs in 4 to 6 weeks. A lot of people end up disappointed. Then you realise that in the cycle you maybe gain a few pounds of muscle that may have taken upwards of a year otherwise. Those few pounds don't show that well in the mirror but you pct, keep training, keep eating right and do a second cycle before the year is out and then you may have 8 to 10 pounds of muscle compared to twelve months ago and you realise it's a marathon not a sprint.
 

kisaj

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Epi is great for adding volume due to the increase in endurance and strength maintenance in later parts of your sets, so if you are eating to match, then the answer is yes. By itself, you won't see benefit for mass.
 
DaeshDontSurf

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not everyone gets hurt when hitting self with hammer - give it a shot yourself and see.

-(-)epi around for so long, just base on original "old man hand squeeze" poor study. go find me current data on it - even the promised "follow on" studies never materialize. its been 5 years since original - "where the beef"? lol
 
LeanEngineer

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not everyone gets hurt when hitting self with hammer - give it a shot yourself and see.
Very true. It's always best to try it for yourself and see how it treats you personally. It's worth the money and time to try and generate your own conclusion.
 
Old Witch

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Vaso 6 is the actual bioavailable form of epicatechin.

If you could actually take enough epicatechin to make it work, you would simply get the same effect as some vaso6.

Buy vaso 6.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Vaso 6 is the actual bioavailable form of epicatechin.

If you could actually take enough epicatechin to make it work, you would simply get the same effect as some vaso6.

Buy vaso 6.
uhh no its not - it is extracted for specific proanthocyanidins which have chains of epicatechins in their structure.
 
Old Witch

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uhh no its not - completely different compounds.
Epicatechin gallate (vaso 6) simply functions as a prodrug to epicatechin, the gallate is ripped off entirely leaving epicatechin in the bloodstream.

Epicatechin is shown to improve blood flow and by that merit heart function. Exactly as epicatechin gallate vaso 6 does. Vaso 6 is much more potent.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Epicatechin gallate (vaso 6) simply functions as a prodrug to epicatechin, the gallate is ripped off entirely leaving epicatechin in the bloodstream.
Okay, but vaso6 isn't extracted for Epicatechin gallate
 
Old Witch

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It’s a “gallate enhanced oligomer”

If it’s one oligomer, it’s not more than one catechin. It’s said to be specifically “epicatechins”

Couple that with the info I got from the proprietor of one supplement company who was told directly that vaso6 was epicatechin gallate and no other catechins were present in anything but trace amount.
 
Old Witch

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Even Olympus Labs used to state on their website directly that vaso 6 was epicatechin gallate,

Incidentally, now it says “gallate enhanced oligomers” plural.

So which is it? I go with the official patent info, it’s one oligomer. Epicatechin gallate. Case closed. Simple as that.
 
NoAddedHmones

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It’s a “gallate enhanced oligomer”

If it’s one oligomer, it’s not more than one catechin. It’s said to be specifically “epicatechins”

Couple that with the info I got from the proprietor of one supplement company who was told directly that vaso6 was epicatechin gallate and no other catechins were present in anything but trace amount.
Just because I’m right doesn’t mean you need to insult me.
Well i don't mean to insult you, but you clearly don't understand this topic very well.

As I said before it is not simply Epicatechin Gallate, the extract only contains much larger Proanthocyanidins, which have epicatechin chains.

I was the first person to report on Vaso6 on here, I have a pretty good idea what is it. In fact we were involved (myself personally) in reviewing the patent data, working with the patent holder and bringing the product to market.

Here is a write up I did a while back:
 
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GrizzleB

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Go get a transdermal epicatechin product then if you wish to try. I believe that would be the best way to get it.
This. Epoch is still on sale at Apex-Alchemy at a GREAT price and has been improved. Code GRZB10 for 10% off. :)
 
Old Witch

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Well i don't mean to insult you, but you clearly don't understand this topic very well.

As I said before it is not simply Epicatechin Gallate, the extract only contains much larger Proanthocyanidins, which have epicatechin chains.

I was the first person to report on Vaso6 on here, I have a pretty good idea what is it. In fact we were involved (myself personally) in reviewing the patent data, working with the patent holder and bringing the product to market.

Here is a write up I did a while back:
What I think, is that what it is, and what you are told it is, are two different things. The words are used loosely enough.

That being said, I was told directly, by someone putting vaso6 into their product, that what was actually in the vaso 6 product they received was epicatechin gallate. Nothing more in any substantial amount.

So you believe what the people with IP to protect tell you, and I will believe what I was told directly.
 
Old Witch

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What’s more, the original write up for Ep1logue on the OL website made mention of vaso 6 being epicatechin gallate specifically. It had a very long write up about just the one ingredient in fact. Talking about how great epicatechin gallate is at quite a length, that the combination of epicatechin and epicatechin gallate was the supreme form of an epicatechin supplement or somesuch similar salesmanship.
 
Old Witch

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What I’m saying, is there is untruth and the story is being rewritten by... yourself and others involved.
 
Old Witch

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I mean, the original write up on Vaso 6 on the OL website was how I ever even heard about epicatechin gallate in the first place.
 

Ot2000

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No it will not add muscle gains. I am pretty sure there was a recent study showing it to be not effective. I have had only one epi product do anything remotely positive and it contained other ingredients.
 

costelum

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No it will not add muscle gains. I am pretty sure there was a recent study showing it to be not effective. I have had only one epi product do anything remotely positive and it contained other ingredients.
i trust you 100% thank you !
 

aGreenBeast

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I've been running Epiloge which is a epicatechin product for several months on end now, as in my experience it doesn't need to be cycled on and off. I've noticed strength gains but it's taken many months of being on to notice. It won't change your life but may give you that extra push you need.

Good luck brother.
 

costelum

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I've been running Epiloge which is a epicatechin product for several months on end now, as in my experience it doesn't need to be cycled on and off. I've noticed strength gains but it's taken many months of being on to notice. It won't change your life but may give you that extra push you need.

Good luck brother.
thank you ... i will not buy is seems to be a fake supplement like others ... most of the good reviews are from company representants...
 

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