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Why is soy protein hated?

PVL said:
cardio.........1hr a day......keep everything the same. once u are leaner, then change diet. it gets easier to diet the better your insulin sensitivity
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Keep diet more on a lower side with cals daily. Eat what I can when I can and just follow macros?
 
ssbackwards said:
i just told him in that IF thread you posted it. itll be hard to find you posted a lot there. i think its in the 90s pages lol that thread is ginnormeous
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I know thats why I barely post in it. Too much time trying to play catch up.. I just check it every now and then

AaronJP1 said:
Yeah can u show me here?
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Post #1804 in the IF thread
 
carb cycling>warrioir diet

i dont buy that whole carb back loading at first it looked interesting but im not convinced


...ll let you guys try it first.
 
rochabp said:
carb cycling>warrioir diet

i dont buy that whole carb back loading at first it looked interesting but im not convinced

...ll let you guys try it first.
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So what are your thoughts as carbs go?
 
I am carb cycling but that sort of causes me to do a sort of variation on the warrior diet lol. But mine is more a carb cycling diet along with really high protein. Just so happens I eat small most of the day and then once or twice a day eat larger, mostly the final two times of the day.
 
For the most part I have the advice I need.

I think I'm have a grasp on the lean gains diet SS suggested a way to run it.

Cave man doesn't look like it's for me.

First and for most though one thing I'm bad about u admit is cardio.
I think I'm going to step my game up in the carido department and and maybe dial my macros in over the next few weeks and get them in daily, from that point I will branch out into 1 of those diets.

Seems likes it works good for some fatter guys and low bodyfat guys.
I'm in-between so I have to clean up a few mistake I'm making first.
 
remember as exercise can mimic leptin in terms of signaling, exercise can increase PYY levels and decrease hunger as well.
 
I believe in manipulating your diet to lose fat instead of cardio. cardio is for those people who can't control themselves and eat too much, then need to burn it off. not worth it. don't eat what you shouldn't (don't exceed your caloric intake for that particular day) and if you have your calories and macronutrients right....you will lose weight with smarts and self control. cardio is not necessary if you ask me, weights along with some minor cardio is fine. If you have an active job, that is enough cardio for me personally along with 45-hour of weights 4 days a week or so.
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
I believe in manipulating your diet to lose fat instead of cardio. cardio is for those people who can't control themselves and eat too much, then need to burn it off. not worth it. don't eat what you shouldn't (don't exceed your caloric intake for that particular day) and if you have your calories and macronutrients right....you will lose weight with smarts and self control. cardio is not necessary if you ask me, weights along with some minor cardio is fine. If you have an active job, that is enough cardio for me personally along with 45-hour of weights 4 days a week or so.
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I can agree, but I over ate to gain size :)
 
SS & Judo have some great ideas I think I'm going to put into play.
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
I believe in manipulating your diet to lose fat instead of cardio. cardio is for those people who can't control themselves and eat too much, then need to burn it off. not worth it. don't eat what you shouldn't (don't exceed your caloric intake for that particular day) and if you have your calories and macronutrients right....you will lose weight with smarts and self control. cardio is not necessary if you ask me, weights along with some minor cardio is fine. If you have an active job, that is enough cardio for me personally along with 45-hour of weights 4 days a week or so.
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problem with that ius when cals are already so low and you cant lower them more, and then you have to add in your cardio and intensity much more. you end up in a downward spiral.

dont touch calories untill you exhausted all means of fat burning so whjen you hit that point, you can slowly lower calories and not drop too much mass, strength, and fullnes
 
ssbackwards said:
problem with that ius when cals are already so low and you cant lower them more, and then you have to add in your cardio and intensity much more. you end up in a downward spiral.

dont touch calories untill you exhausted all means of fat burning so whjen you hit that point, you can slowly lower calories and not drop too much mass, strength, and fullnes
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That is why u suggested keeping macro the same and fasting or in our case two 10-12 hour fasting windows?
 
ssbackwards said:
problem with that ius when cals are already so low and you cant lower them more, and then you have to add in your cardio and intensity much more. you end up in a downward spiral.

dont touch calories untill you exhausted all means of fat burning so whjen you hit that point, you can slowly lower calories and not drop too much mass, strength, and fullnes
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I just zigzag the calories, it might be 1900 one day and 2500 the next or anywhere inbetween....this in addition to cycling the carbs from 50-170 as well as throwing in a cheat day once a week or so....so there is no problem with the lowering calories lower and lower.....you can't be afraid to take in maintenance or high cal's now and again to keep the metabolism guessing and not stagnant. It works for me, my mother always has said when she see's me and I've lost weight how amazed she is that I can lose the weight and do it w/o cardio (she knows I don't do cardio lol). not that I ever get really fat or anything, just more bulky or bigger around the waist than necessary. Then I just manipulate my diet for weight loss. I think cardio is good for cardiovascular health, but it seems counterproductive to muscle building which is what I am interested in.
 
AaronJP1 said:
That is why u suggested keeping macro the same and fasting or in our case two 10-12 hour fasting windows?
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yeap

i dontr know anything abouyt you or your diet history to make a statement of where i believe your calories should be, but yes macros should atleast be at maintence or plus 200
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
I just zigzag the calories, it might be 1900 one day and 2500 the next or anywhere inbetween....this in addition to cycling the carbs from 50-170 as well as throwing in a cheat day once a week or so....so there is no problem with the lowering calories lower and lower.....you can't be afraid to take in maintenance or high cal's now and again to keep the metabolism guessing and not stagnant. It works for me, my mother always has said when she see's me and I've lost weight how amazed she is that I can lose the weight and do it w/o cardio (she knows I don't do cardio lol). not that I ever get really fat or anything, just more bulky or bigger around the waist than necessary. Then I just manipulate my diet for weight loss. I think cardio is good for cardiovascular health, but it seems counterproductive to muscle building which is what I am interested in.
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cardio not counter productive, beside the health of your heart, increased blood flow, better nutrient partioning, increased libido, less fat storage, and bigger appetite, your right it is counter productive....?

cardio in any case is never counter productive.
 
ssbackwards said:
cardio not counter productive, beside the health of your heart, increased blood flow, better nutrient partioning, increased libido, less fat storage, and bigger appetite, your right it is counter productive....?

cardio in any case is never counter productive.
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I feel that it is. Its called an "opinion".......and I've had others who share that opinion over the years. You don't, that is fine. what works for me may or may not work for you. But it does work for me. Perhaps you don't have the self-control to diet properly? not sure.....but cardio is not necessary for fat loss and is counterproductive to muscle building. unless you have a sedentary job, then yes....do some LIGHT cardio for sure. i do not sit on a chair for 8 hours. Nothing laboring, but I am walking and standing up and down much of the day. Is cardio healthy? obviously, I do not have a use for it. If you are obese or pretty chubby it can be of benefit also.
 
AaronJP1 said:
By mixed I mean blk/white genetics :)
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its all good man..........depends where they are from.........if you are american on both sides for a few generations, it doesnt make a difference. however, if your parents were immigrants, thats another story. basically the longer a person has settled into american way of eating and exercise the more ****ed up the genetics get because its years and years of crap food and not enough cardio...........and that plays a huge role on diabetes, blood pressure, etc.............
 
Only time cardio can be counter productive are if you are in extended periods of fasting or during a PSMF diet but even then it only applies if too much cardio is done.

Thats the only possible instance where I can imagine cardio being counter productive and they are both extreme diets.
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
I feel that it is. Its called an "opinion".......and I've had others who share that opinion over the years. You don't, that is fine. what works for me may or may not work for you. But it does work for me. Perhaps you don't have the self-control to diet properly? not sure.....but cardio is not necessary for fat loss and is counterproductive to muscle building. unless you have a sedentary job, then yes....do some LIGHT cardio for sure. i do not sit on a chair for 8 hours. Nothing laboring, but I am walking and standing up and down much of the day. Is cardio healthy? obviously, I do not have a use for it. If you are obese or pretty chubby it can be of benefit also.
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if you have an active job, then that is considered cardio.......yes u are correct.

for most of us without jobs, lol..........we need the cardio...........economy made me fat(no money, no motivation, no cardio everyday, no gym, etc)

i think a lot of people are still in this boat. i decided to take time off to get healthy, now its just a matter of finding a job that pays bills
 
JudoJosh said:
Only time cardio can be counter productive are if you are in extended periods of fasting or during a PSMF diet but even then it only applies if too much cardio is done.

Thats the only possible instance where I can imagine cardio being counter productive and they are both extreme diets.
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yes, ie crash diet, fad diets, etc
 
JudoJosh said:
Only time cardio can be counter productive are if you are in extended periods of fasting or during a PSMF diet but even then it only applies if too much cardio is done.

Thats the only possible instance where I can imagine cardio being counter productive and they are both extreme diets.
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If you are lifting weights trying to build muscle, then you are putting additional stress on your body that is trying to recover by stressing it further with an hour of whatever cardio....I find that "counterproductive".....I can lose fat w/o cardio, instead using my diet. I want my body to recover and to shed fat....so I take in the appropriate protein and aminos etc to help recover....while manipulating my diet to lose fat. I don't see where cardio is productive as far as building muscle or losing fat goes if you can lift weights and then use your diet as a tool. don't see it. again its my opinion and this is from experience....and as I said I know plenty of guys who look better and are bigger than me that agree and think cardio is counterproductive. they are like me, and are mostly interested in muscle and use their diet to shed fat when necessary.
 
PVL said:
if you have an active job, then that is considered cardio.......yes u are correct.

for most of us without jobs, lol..........we need the cardio...........economy made me fat(no money, no motivation, no cardio everyday, no gym, etc)

i think a lot of people are still in this boat. i decided to take time off to get healthy, now its just a matter of finding a job that pays bills
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yes, as I said earlier if you are sedentary (w/o job for instance) then SURE....do something productive and go walk or run or treadmill or whatever you like. Or if you have an office job, or you are really fat....cardio will work fine. I'm a guy who's sometimes a little fat, who has a relatively active job, and who knows how to manipulate my diet. I feel no need for cardio, I just adjust my calories to lose fat or maintain or gain....whatever I want to do. everybody has different metabolisms and different jobs etc. I still feel diet is the key, and building muscle/working out is the best "cardio".....
 
Anyhow...
I have some lean extreme left over.
Think I'm going to pop a cap or two of that at night and see if it may fight off some cravings it's what I got in the cupboard right now.
 
ssbackwards said:
yeap

i dontr know anything abouyt you or your diet history to make a statement of where i believe your calories should be, but yes macros should atleast be at maintence or plus 200
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My macros are 2200 cals 160g protein using lean mass for that #, 71g fat and 215g carbs roughly.

Thats whats required to maintain my weight.

I can add on another 250 cals, 10-15g of fats, 50 or so more carbs and 20-30 more grams of protein to gain 1/2 pound a week. To gain a pound which may be fat I would have to double those numbers just presented, so I'll start at the 1/2 pound level now.
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
I feel that it is. Its called an "opinion".......and I've had others who share that opinion over the years. You don't, that is fine. what works for me may or may not work for you. But it does work for me. Perhaps you don't have the self-control to diet properly? not sure.....but cardio is not necessary for fat loss and is counterproductive to muscle building. unless you have a sedentary job, then yes....do some LIGHT cardio for sure. i do not sit on a chair for 8 hours. Nothing laboring, but I am walking and standing up and down much of the day. Is cardio healthy? obviously, I do not have a use for it. If you are obese or pretty chubby it can be of benefit also.
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lol at you questioning my dieting.

me and judo are probably the only ones who actually are meticulous about what we do.

ie counting cals, counting macros, adjusting daily cals to fit needs for the day.

its not an opinion the reasons i stated are indeed facts, whether you inplement them or not is simply choice.
 
WarBird every1 like I said and PVL said it too, you know we all have our opinions and not everything will work or every1.

I come here to get advice and utilize trial and error ya know? :)
 
ssbackwards said:
lol at you questioning my dieting.

me and judo are probably the only ones who actually are meticulous about what we do.

ie counting cals, counting macros, adjusting daily cals to fit needs for the day.

its not an opinion the reasons i stated are indeed facts, whether you inplement them or not is simply choice.
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i've been "counting my calories" since i was 16, probably before you were born son. You think a lot of yourself.....as far as implementing ANYTHING you say? fat chance, i probably forgot more than you know kiddo. try again.
 
Simple, it sucks and is estrogenic.
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
I don't see where cardio is productive as far as building muscle or losing fat goes
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Example:

Could allow one to take in an excess amount of calories which would contribute to more muscle building. Add in the cardio to "mop" up whatever calories you didnt use to prevent fat gain.
 
Hey hey, I value both or your guys opinions.
Warbirds u state yours I listened, SS stated his I listened.

You guys were just offering advice to help out a fellow lifter. We are all good in here and will all stick to what we are doing....
It's working for each of u what u r doing.
 
AaronJP1 said:
WarBird every1 like I said and PVL said it too, you know we all have our opinions and not everything will work or every1.

I come here to get advice and utilize trial and error ya know? :)
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sometimes we have a few high and mighty know-it-alls on here, I'm the kinda guy who will sort them out. I'll put my knowledge against anyone anytime.....as you see, mr tough guy is talking smack.......not me....I just stated my opinion and you see his smart ass response....then you see my response afterwards. I am entitled to my opinion and this one idiot isn't going to tell me otherwise, nor is he going to "tell me" what to "implement" LMFAO....i actually laughed at that statement of his......"Implement my suggestions" BWA!.......
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
i've been "counting my calories" since i was 16, probably before you were born son. You think a lot of yourself.....as far as implementing ANYTHING you say? fat chance, i probably forgot more than you know kiddo. try again.
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lol... Wow
 
JudoJosh said:
Example:

Could allow one to take in an excess amount of calories which would contribute to more muscle building. Add in the cardio to "mop" up whatever calories you didnt use to prevent fat gain.
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I have to say I agree I've read this many places and that's in such simple wording a child could understand it... No offense to any1 but that's legit advice
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
sometimes we have a few high and mighty know-it-alls on here, I'm the kinda guy who will sort them out. I'll put my knowledge against anyone anytime.....as you see, mr tough guy is talking smack.......not me....I just stated my opinion and you see his smart ass response....then you see my response afterwards. I am entitled to my opinion and this one idiot isn't going to tell me otherwise, nor is he going to "tell me" what to "implement" LMFAO....i actually laughed at that statement of his......"Implement my suggestions" BWA!.......
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You and him are almost as bad as me and real bigger was lmao....
 
JudoJosh said:
Example:

Could allow one to take in an excess amount of calories which would contribute to more muscle building. Add in the cardio to "mop" up whatever calories you didnt use to prevent fat gain.
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that is EXACTLY what i mean. DON'T take in too many calories if you will need to "burn them off" later! As for taking in more calories than necessary in order to build muscle, that is called bulking and there is no cardio in bulking. totally different issue there. Don't bulk and get fat if you ask me, look for more leaner gains. again, my opinion and how I do it personally. I don't do cardio for fat loss, nor do I bulk up and get too fat anymore....so no need to burn it off after bulking either.
 
some of you guys think you know it all.....and don't want to hear any differing opinions....off the high horse boys.....there are different strokes for different folks....just gonna have to deal with it.....you're not always "right", theres always more than one way to skin a cat....
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
that is EXACTLY what i mean. DON'T take in too many calories if you will need to "burn them off" later! As for taking in more calories than necessary in order to build muscle, that is called bulking and there is no cardio in bulking. totally different issue there. Don't bulk and get fat if you ask me, look for more leaner gains. again, my opinion and how I do it personally. I don't do cardio for fat loss, nor do I bulk up and get too fat anymore....so no need to burn it off after bulking either.
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True but we all do it differently.
I think he (SS) was stating doing it for health reason as not really for weight loss. That's what I got out of it.
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
some of you guys think you know it all.....and don't want to hear any differing opinions....off the high horse boys.....there are different strokes for different folks....just gonna have to deal with it.....you're not always "right", theres always more than one way to skin a cat....
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U got some funny old fashioned sayings...


I'd like to put a face to all the personalities...
That not u in the pic right warbirds
 
AaronJP1 said:
U got some funny old fashioned sayings...


I'd like to put a face to all the personalities...
That not u in the pic right warbirds
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I'm old, so i know a lot of sayings........don't you listen to your parents to get cool old sayings? I always did.

And I wish that was me, I'd be licking myself all day and not arguing online about cardio LMFAO.......
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
i've been "counting my calories" since i was 16, probably before you were born son. You think a lot of yourself.....as far as implementing ANYTHING you say? fat chance, i probably forgot more than you know kiddo. try again.
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self proclaimed guru?

goes pretty far.

hope it works for you.

i said my peace now anyone can take what they want from it.
 
ssbackwards said:
self proclaimed guru?

goes pretty far.

hope it works for you.

i said my peace now anyone can take what they want from it.
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want me to go quote the statement you made about "you and judo have been doing X since Y????" and are the main guys on here who do X and Y???? I'll go fetch it. YOU were the 'self proclaimed guru'....i just told you cease and desist with telling me your "advice" and if I want to "implement your advice" lol.
 
AaronJP1 said:
So what are your thoughts as carbs go?
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my thoughts as far as carbs are that we ought to use them to build muscle one day and another to loose fat, hence carb cycling.

on my higer carbs i go 1.3x bodyweight for grams
and .70 on lower carb days

of course all the carbs regardless of day are clean and try to keep net carbs to a minimum however i would never again try keto as it is unnecessary to be under 30g so long as your insulin is under control plus i always lost muscle on keto diets.

but my carb timing would be most at bfast, mediu amnt lunch/ pre wo meal, high post, and keep it low at night.

but i think most is food choice/carb choice and amount. Once you can grasp that concept diet fads wont match it.

i also agree i dont think cardio is entirely necessary if your diet is good enough you can easily loose fat without it, however if your on the higher ennd of the scale it might speed up the process but youd have to be really discipline not let that extra cardio drive your hunger up or crave certain fatty foods.
 
ssbackwards said:
lol at you questioning my dieting.

me and judo are probably the only ones who actually are meticulous about what we do.

ie counting cals, counting macros, adjusting daily cals to fit needs for the day.

its not an opinion the reasons i stated are indeed facts, whether you inplement them or not is simply choice.
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who asked who DARED question him? who said he was the king shyt of calorie counting? LOL.......I rest my case your honor.......
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
sometimes we have a few high and mighty know-it-alls on here, I'm the kinda guy who will sort them out. I'll put my knowledge against anyone anytime.....as you see, mr tough guy is talking smack.......not me....I just stated my opinion and you see his smart ass response....then you see my response afterwards. I am entitled to my opinion and this one idiot isn't going to tell me otherwise, nor is he going to "tell me" what to "implement" LMFAO....i actually laughed at that statement of his......"Implement my suggestions" BWA!.......
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your still new here, you have a lot to learn.

not talking ****. stating facts. period. and in one of my statements a article about it. Which if you knew about leptin you know it helps build muscle aswell. but neither here nor there. do what you want.

Aaron is grown enough to make his own decisions as are you. but being narrow minded wont help
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
want me to go quote the statement you made about "you and judo have been doing X since Y????" and are the main guys on here who do X and Y???? I'll go fetch it. YOU were the 'self proclaimed guru'....i just told you cease and desist with telling me your "advice" and if I want to "implement your advice" lol.
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so then you can keep being bothered by the little midsection fat you keep talking about. not my problem
 
rochabp said:
my thoughts as far as carbs are that we ought to use them to build muscle one day and another to loose fat, hence carb cycling.

on my higer carbs i go 1.5x bodyweight for grams
and .70 on lower carb days

of course all the carbs regardless of day are clean and try to keep net carbs to a minimum however i would never again try keto as it is unnecessary to be under 30g so long as your insulin is under control plus i always lost muscle on keto diets.

but my carb timing would be most at bfast, mediu amnt lunch/ pre wo meal, high post, and keep it low at night.

but i think most is food choice/carb choice and amount. Once you can grasp that concept diet fads wont match it.

i also agree i dont think cardio is entirely necessary if your diet is good enough you can easily loose fat without it, however if your on the higher ennd of the scale it might speed up the process but youd have to be really discipline not let that extra cardio drive your hunger up or crave certain fatty foods.
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that is all i was saying. cycle carbs, cycle cals, use diet to lose fat not cardio. SIMPLE. there are always a handful of guys who agree with that reasoning....and there are usually a few handfuls who believe in different dieting principles and believe in cardio. Why those guys must get all huffy and think they are beyond reproach is beyond me. Its an opinion based activity we do, at least as far as dieting and training goes....everybody has differing ideas and different things work for some and not others. notice they won't jump your ass for saying the same things....watch....
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
want me to go quote the statement you made about "you and judo have been doing X since Y????" and are the main guys on here who do X and Y???? I'll go fetch it. YOU were the 'self proclaimed guru'....i just told you cease and desist with telling me your "advice" and if I want to "implement your advice" lol.
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no where did i say we were the main guys, i was talking in relation to this thread. ok chief.
 
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