Iron Warrior
Registered User
And the 49ers almost traded for him at one point, they would have really kicked ass.CEDeoudes59 said:
Who is the best Quarterback ever?
- Thread starter CEDeoudes59
- Start date
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
Iron Warrior said:
stats side, Farve is the toughest player to play the position (im not just agreeing with ESPN here) and he is also a great leader.
These intangibles make him my #1 although he wouldn't win in the NFL Quarterback competition.
Although Greenbay had a great defense for some of the years, they weren't considered a Defensive team - Farve definitely held his own.
only 3 time NFL MVP, that really has me sold.
BMW
Member
yeah marino was the fucking team. we really didnt have any star players except for him. im not being biased becuse im a dolphins fan but for a man to accomplish so much practically by himself is amazing. the only other good dlphin around that time had to be olindo mare.Iron Warrior said:
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
Reggie Roby baby. Wore a watch and punted the over 50 every time.
doggzj
Board Supporter
Yea, if the niners pick up Sanders in 95 then Young has at least two more rings. On the same note, why is he not being considered more? He has the best lifetime rating for any QB ever, which is by FAR the most important stat. He was an excellent team leader, and he came up big in big games. He would have thrown for over 10 touchdowns in the 95 SB if they didn't call off the dogs IN THE THIRD QUARTER.Iron Warrior said:
Unlike players like Elway, he was also personable and didn't bitch and whine to be traded...
And, which is not even noted here, He was the FIRST MODERN QB. Young was throwing up huge yards rushing when Vick was in grade school.
Edit: If this us about who was the best pure passer/thrower of a football, then obviously Marino wins no contest...
shootmeagain
Registered User
Ok, this is gonna hurt... cause I HATED the Cowboys for yearsssss....BMW said:
...but I gotta give Aikman credit. The guy had great pocket presence and tremendous accuracy.
Sure, they were a loaded team. But they were loaded at QB too. Aikman was excellent.
Ow...
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
Hey SMA - superbowl2006
Ravens and Panthers.
Ravens and Panthers.
shootmeagain
Registered User
Well, first off, yeah... I know that. I never saw any of those 'further back' guys play in my lifetime either. But, I never saw Jim Brown, and still, I know he was one of the, if not the greatest RB.natedogg said:
Secondly, you can always say nowadays things are different... and that's certainly true. But I think you have to judge the players by the era, and the 'mates and opponents they played with. Babe Ruth never faced middle-relief... or 'a closer' or what-have-you either, but that doesn't make him any less 'a great'.
Of course, I do know what you mean though. The debate is about Marino, Elway, Montana, etc. etc., not the older-timers. I just think Tarkenton always get left out because, like Jim Kelly, he got to the big one a few times, but never won. Still, most of the records Marino holds or held, he took from Fran... and Tarkenton still holds some I believe.
shootmeagain
Registered User
That would be sweet!CEDeoudes59 said:
NFC South should be fun this year. NO will be tough and Tampa ought to be better, but I think it will come down to ATL and The Panthers.
Iron Warrior
Registered User
Steve Young doesn't get as much credit because he won 1 Super Bowl and Joe won 4. It's unfair, especially when you consider that the only reason the 49ers traded Montana was because he wasn't better than Young after 1990. Montana did suffer a horrible injury which set him back a lot. I would personally pick Joe over Steve because he played better in clutch games. Their ratings aren't that different, but Young is definitely a much more dangerous running threat. Everyone should get a chance to see his game winning 50 yard run against the Vikings in 1988, that was one of the greatest plays ever, in any sport.doggzj said:
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
Panthers over ATL. Peppers over Vick, everytime.
shootmeagain
Registered User
Uh oh... we forgot Warren Moon. Too bad this guy hardly had a team to work with in his career.
Check out where Moon and Tark fall on this list, yet they are always left out...
Invalid Link Removed
Check out where Moon and Tark fall on this list, yet they are always left out...
Invalid Link Removed
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
certainly moon deserves consideration, but without a ring and can't be considered over Marino. Surprised by those numbers though.
BingeAndPurge
Active member
The hands down debate is between Marino and Montana.
And (3 Time NFL MVP) Randall Cunningham was the first great running QB (record 942 yards rushing in 1990), not Steve Young. Imagine being a RB and making the top ten for leading rushers in a season only to know that the guy in front of you at the 9 slot is a QB. How crappy would that feel. I'm not a Cunningham freak, but I know as a kid it was Cunningham mania for a while there and to win his THIRD MVP some ten years after his first is a great achievement. Still, he's not in the Hall and he's not on my list.
And (3 Time NFL MVP) Randall Cunningham was the first great running QB (record 942 yards rushing in 1990), not Steve Young. Imagine being a RB and making the top ten for leading rushers in a season only to know that the guy in front of you at the 9 slot is a QB. How crappy would that feel. I'm not a Cunningham freak, but I know as a kid it was Cunningham mania for a while there and to win his THIRD MVP some ten years after his first is a great achievement. Still, he's not in the Hall and he's not on my list.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
its all about the Oline.
In Dallas
In Denver
In Dallas
In Denver
Sir Foxx
Active member
yankees3 said:
Tom Jackson was only on the first SuperBowl team that Elway went to(He was on the 1977 Denver team, that went to the SB, which had one of the best Defenses ever).
Mecklenberg was a great LB, but that doesn't mean a whole lot when you have no pass rush or not so good corners.
Atwater came in for the last SB route that Denver was in(against SF). Great, great player, but only one player who along with Mecklenberg, didn't have any other help on the D-Side.
Sharpe came in the 90's when Denver started to put together a solid Offense. But in the 80's Denver had nothing, no running game, no receivers, no TE, no line and still made it to 3 SB's.
John Elway is the most sacked QB in the history of the game by 200 sacks and he only missed 15 games in his career. When Favre gets sacked over 500 times, then lets see if his streak holds up.
houseman
Board Supporter
They didn't have to throw those numbers because they had a TEAM backing them up.Iron Warrior said:
That's what happens when you are left with no choice but to throw the ball over and over and over again because your A) D sucks; or B) Receivers suck; C) Backs suck; or D) all of the above
natedogg
Well-known member
You're canadian eh, what do you know, eh. Go watch some CFL and shutup.houseman said:They didn't have to throw those numbers because they had a TEAM backing them up.
That's what happens when you are left with no choice but to throw the ball over and over and over again because your A) D sucks; or B) Receivers suck; C) Backs suck; or D) all of the above
But really, If I were to choose, my top three would have to be based on mobility, accuracy, arm strength, durability, pocket presence, performance in the clutch, and intestinal fortitude among others. I would also include intangibles such as character, personality and unselfishness. Basically someone who has the whole package. Based on these characteristics my three would be Steve Young, John Elway and Brett Farve. Quite frankly these are the guys I grew up watching. There are others that are good as well, but I really didn't start watching football until the early ninties. Of course being a Niners fan, Steve Young is by far my favorite quarterback. Not only for his all out throwing ability, but for his balls. If you ever watched this dude play, he had balls the size of coconuts. He didn't give a ****, if he couldn't beat you with his arm, he could beat you with his feet. Sometimes he scared me though, especially when he got knocked the **** out on more than one occasion. You don't see guys like this come around too often.
houseman
Board Supporter
I'll agree with your thoughts on Young. I really enjoyed watching him play.natedogg said:You're canadian eh, what do you know, eh. Go watch some CFL and shutup.
But really, If I were to choose, my top three would have to be based on mobility, accuracy, arm strength, durability, pocket presence, performance in the clutch, and intestinal fortitude among others. I would also include intangibles such as character, personality and unselfishness. Basically someone who has the whole package. Based on these characteristics my three would be Steve Young, John Elway and Brett Farve. Quite frankly these are the guys I grew up watching. There are others that are good as well, but I really didn't start watching football until the early ninties. Of course being a Niners fan, Steve Young is by far my favorite quarterback. Not only for his all out throwing ability, but for his balls. If you ever watched this dude play, he had balls the size of coconuts. He didn't give a ****, if he couldn't beat you with his arm, he could beat you with his feet. Sometimes he scared me though, especially when he got knocked the **** out on more than one occasion. You don't see guys like this come around too often.
I'd have to say (minus the speed factor) Young and Favre are similar players. Both will do whatever they need to do get the job done and not afraid of a few bumps if it needs be.
houseman
Board Supporter
Yeah, NFL is pretty big in Canada.
I prefer NFL over CFL. Helps too, that I almost went to PSU on a football scholarship.
Defensively, I'd say it's tougher to play in the CFL than in the NFL. The field really is that much bigger - width and length, plus the endzone depth makes the red zone an easier target for receivers. However, offensively, 3 downs makes you really need to pick and choose more wisely but you get plenty more offensive opportunities because of the 3 downs.
I prefer NFL over CFL. Helps too, that I almost went to PSU on a football scholarship.
Defensively, I'd say it's tougher to play in the CFL than in the NFL. The field really is that much bigger - width and length, plus the endzone depth makes the red zone an easier target for receivers. However, offensively, 3 downs makes you really need to pick and choose more wisely but you get plenty more offensive opportunities because of the 3 downs.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
Marino easily, the argument against Montana is Steve Young in a lot of regards.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
I hope we don't forget a guy named Jerry Rice. The greatest Football Player ever.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
sad, a different direction. Rashaun Woods, Kevan Barlow and Brandon Lloyd's direction. Rice could have every seat in the house filled if he was just the 3rd reciever.
He is the best, and the last in an era of classy respectable wideouts. Today we celebrate Keyshawn Johnson and his 6 touchdowns a season.
He is the best, and the last in an era of classy respectable wideouts. Today we celebrate Keyshawn Johnson and his 6 touchdowns a season.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
Steve Young was a lot like Steve McNair of today. Young maximized his talent because he was smarter than McNair (and probably better at reading defenses against the west coast). McNair is plain reckless at times.
both are warriors though
both are warriors though
yankees3
Board Supporter
Unless i'm missing some people Favre's D was basically Butler, sharper and White on his last legs and who did he have on offense that was great? Maybe I'm missing the point but I don't see how Favre's supporting cast was so much better than Elway's during his losing years and there's no question Elway definitely had a better supporting cast the years he won.Sir Foxx said:
yankees3
Board Supporter
because Favre's team was loaded with.....um......who the hell did he have on offense again? Remember, we're talking supporting casts here. Wasn't elway handing off to a 2000 yd back who would be a league MVP, and throwing to a Hall of famer in sharpe and one of the top WR in the league at the time in Rod Smith? Favre on the other hand had Levens, Chmura and Freeman. As far as the D, I said earlier that I might have missed people but what dominant players were on that side of the ball? I know I could name quite a few good ones on Denver's D that year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Elway isn't one of the greatest ever and I'm not trying to put him down in any way. I said that in my opinion Favre was the greatest and someone responded with elway was because he had less around him then Favre. I'm still waiting to see who these amazing offensive (or defensive besides the ones I named ) players Favre had on his teams that helped his numbers or the success he had in the league. With just about every other QB there are HOF'ers around them but with Favre there are just a bunch of guys that fed off him. Look at guys like Freeman, Robert brooks, Corey Bradford, etc. that weren't high picks yet went to Pro bowls or had big seasons with him, then left and couldn't even start on other teams.Sir Foxx said:
Iron Warrior
Registered User
Young did spend a year in the USFL though before the league went bankrupt. They both broke in the NFL in 1985. Their rushing stats are almost identical but Young has a way higher rating, TD:INT ratio, & completion percent.doggzj said:
Iron Warrior
Registered User
That is true. The Pack rolled over everybody that year. They bitch slapped the Niners in the title game 23-10 and the Niners whooped Denver late in the season that year so everyone had the Pack heavily favored.Sir Foxx said:
The Packers did not have superstars but they had a lot of good defenders. Gilbert Brown could singlehandedly change their defensive scheme because he was the most dominant run stopper when he was healthy. This allowed the Pack to sit back in a zone, play man-to-man and do many things defensively. On that day, Denver neutralized him and that was the difference.
Iron Warrior
Registered User
LMAO, Barlow's a puss, Lloyd wants to be a rapper, and Woods is still a big uncertainty. It looks like the wrong direction if you ask me but they say they know what they're doing LOLCEDeoudes59 said:
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
they certainly gutted the entire team, and all the skill positions.
Iron Warrior
Registered User
Yup LA Xpress, they made him the $40 million dollar man but he didn't get much of that moneyEEmain said:
mtruther
Member
I hear you all on Favre's toughness, but a guy that really needs some credit in that department is my least favorite players of all time: Jim Kelly. Eh, I was a Dolphins fan. :nutkick:
I just remember back to the days when Miami and Buffalo just fought mercilessly with one another over the division title. When Bryan Cox was spitting at Bills fans (and even before that). Kelly would just get brutalized by the Dolphins defense. They'd hit him over and over again, even put him out for a few plays and have him limping, but it never failed: he'd come right back. Just slam him to the turf after he completed that pass for 12 yards, and he'd pull the divet out of his helmet and get back up and do it again. I HATED that guy! lol! Respect, I guesss, right?
Of course, my best of all time is Marino. Maybe Montana or Young. I really don't have much to guage Joe's personality on. I was a bit too much of a wee pup, I guess. Young was just such a class act all around. Thing is, Montana just made sooooo many clutch throws.
I just remember back to the days when Miami and Buffalo just fought mercilessly with one another over the division title. When Bryan Cox was spitting at Bills fans (and even before that). Kelly would just get brutalized by the Dolphins defense. They'd hit him over and over again, even put him out for a few plays and have him limping, but it never failed: he'd come right back. Just slam him to the turf after he completed that pass for 12 yards, and he'd pull the divet out of his helmet and get back up and do it again. I HATED that guy! lol! Respect, I guesss, right?
Of course, my best of all time is Marino. Maybe Montana or Young. I really don't have much to guage Joe's personality on. I was a bit too much of a wee pup, I guess. Young was just such a class act all around. Thing is, Montana just made sooooo many clutch throws.
Iron Warrior
Registered User
That's what separates the great ones from the greatest. Kelly was a maniac. I remeber watching the 49ers vs Bills game in which neither team punted the entire day, there were like 1,100 yards of offense. That was insane, he brought them back from a 31-17 deficit in the 4th quarter to win 34-31. The best 49ers game I ever saw in a losing effort.mtruther said: