Who is the best HW boxer in the last 25 years?
- Thread starter jas123
- Start date
pistonpump
Banned
thats a tough one. im subbing to see the responses.
Lewis, Holyfield, retro Tyson.
here is a list of top 50 current HW's take a look at # 50
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Lewis, Holyfield, retro Tyson.
here is a list of top 50 current HW's take a look at # 50
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Trauma1
Legend
I know alot of people will disagree.....but tyson in his prime was a force to be reckoned with. I've never seen a heavyweight with the speed and power mike had in his day......too bad he didn't have the mental stability to go with it, because if that were the case i think we'de be calling him, not ali "The Greatest"
tattoopierced1
Guest
Tyson in his prime hands down.
PumpingIron
Well-known member
Klitscho hits hard...Tyson was downright nasty...Lewis was strong and smart...holyfield was great...
Mercer, Bowe, Morrison, Moorer, Foreman, Douglas all were great...
Mercer, Bowe, Morrison, Moorer, Foreman, Douglas all were great...
PumpingIron
Well-known member
I would have to say holyfield though, becuase he has the longest span of being the undisputed champ in the past 25 years.
Edit: I am wrong...that would be Tyson.
Edit: I am wrong...that would be Tyson.
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bLacKjAck.
Lift Heavy
Tyson, by far --- in his prime he was unbeatable. Just plain nasty
Rodja
Board Sponsor
He didn't ditch Cuss D'Amato, he died.
pistonpump
Banned
right. alot of people will argue Tyson didnt have high caliber opponents in his prime. Holyfield has faught alot of tough guys, Lewis as well. I might have to go with Lewis but I dont think you can really pick one guy. You would have to clarify the qualifications for this title of "the greatest" a lil more.
PumpingIron
Well-known member
Once he let Don King more and more into his life...he was fvcked
jas123
Well-known member
This makes a difference. I wanted to let people determine this for themselves, but you could take it as who had the best career in this span or who at their prime was the best fighter.
I never followed boxing real closely, which is why I started the thread. I guess if I had to say career-wise, maybe Lennox, and best in their prime = Tyson.
PumpingIron
Well-known member
I agree with you here. I am a big boxing fan, as some of my posting here has indicated...but thats a pretty good assumption.
Tyson vs. Lewis is the argument of the Fighter vs. the Boxer.
When talking about recent great you have to have Evander in the conversation though.
PumpingIron
Well-known member
Razor Ruddock? Golata? Botha? Spinks? Holmes?
He lost to holyfield, lewis and buster douglas along the way though.
Rodja
Board Sponsor
Outside of Holmes, I would not consider any of them to be great boxers. Solid, but not all-time greats.
PumpingIron
Well-known member
Spinks is the best outta that list...
Rodja
Board Sponsor
I think that Spinks got gift decisions against Holmes.
PumpingIron
Well-known member
I just wanna throw some stats out there...
Michael "Jinx" Spinks 31-1-0 (21 KO)
James "Buster" Douglas 33-6-1 (25 KO)
Donovan "Razor" Ruddock 37-5-1 (28 KO)
Francios "The White Buffalo" Botha 44-4-2 (28 KO)
Andrew Golata 39-6-1 (32 KO)
Larry "The Easton Assasin" Holmes 69-6-0 (44 KO)
And when they fought...
Michael "Jinx" Spinks 31-0-0, Tyson had 6lbs
James "Buster" Douglas 29-4-1, Tyson gave up 11lbs
Donovan "Razor" Ruddock 24-1-1/24-2-1, Tyson gave up 9 and 22 lbs respectively
Francios "The White Buffalo" Botha 39-1-0, Tyson gave up 10lbs
Andrew Golata 36-4-0, Tyson gave up 18lbs
Larry "The Easton Assasin" Holmes 48-2-0, Tyson gave up 10lbs
Tyson usually fought under 220lbs...thats insane for a HW. For a predominant part of his career he only fought top 5 contenders. Most guys got hurt so badly by the man that he literally f-ed up the rest of their careers. It took 27 fights for Tyson to get his first loss, and and another 8 for the next, until he lost twice to holyfield in 96 and 97.
Michael "Jinx" Spinks 31-1-0 (21 KO)
James "Buster" Douglas 33-6-1 (25 KO)
Donovan "Razor" Ruddock 37-5-1 (28 KO)
Francios "The White Buffalo" Botha 44-4-2 (28 KO)
Andrew Golata 39-6-1 (32 KO)
Larry "The Easton Assasin" Holmes 69-6-0 (44 KO)
And when they fought...
Michael "Jinx" Spinks 31-0-0, Tyson had 6lbs
James "Buster" Douglas 29-4-1, Tyson gave up 11lbs
Donovan "Razor" Ruddock 24-1-1/24-2-1, Tyson gave up 9 and 22 lbs respectively
Francios "The White Buffalo" Botha 39-1-0, Tyson gave up 10lbs
Andrew Golata 36-4-0, Tyson gave up 18lbs
Larry "The Easton Assasin" Holmes 48-2-0, Tyson gave up 10lbs
Tyson usually fought under 220lbs...thats insane for a HW. For a predominant part of his career he only fought top 5 contenders. Most guys got hurt so badly by the man that he literally f-ed up the rest of their careers. It took 27 fights for Tyson to get his first loss, and and another 8 for the next, until he lost twice to holyfield in 96 and 97.
jas123
Well-known member
It's too bad Tyson had to fade into "Bolivian". Didn't Evander usually fight around 210?
Rodja
Board Sponsor
He was barely above 200 when he fought Bowe. I just re-watched those matches on ESPN classic ad they are some the best HW bouts of all-time.
PumpingIron
Well-known member
Bowe was nasty too, until he went to jail.
Rodja
Board Sponsor
I'm willing to bet that no person fvcked with him when he was locked up.
Niko
Board Supporter
Holmes was way passed his prime when he fought Tyson.
Spinks, a blown up light heavy, lost the fight before he even stepped into the ring with Tyson. This was Tyson at his most devastating.
Razor Ruddock was a one punch fighter. He had a hybrid hook/upper cut punch and that was basically it. A decent chin too.
Botha was never an upper echelon heavyweight. His record was made against tomato cans. He had neither the skills nor the ability to hang with Tyson and yet he was beating Tyson until he walked into a right.
Buster KO'd Tyson. Buster at the peak of his game and Tyson hardly trained for the fight. This was the beginning of the end for him.
Golata is a nut case who up and quit in their fight.
What made Tyson so amazing was not only his skill and attributes but the fact that he was so young. You saw this kid and couldn't help but get excited at the thought of what he could accomplish when he enters into his prime. Unfortunately, he never gave himself the chance to fulfill his potential.
My vote for greatness over the past 25 years goes to Larry Holmes and Holyfield.
Beige
Member
I like this thread because I can't tell you how many arguements the guys at my gym get into over this one. I say Tyson just in terms of raw talent and ability. As a young teen he made a living walking the streets of Flushing (I think) and knocking people out for their wallets...c'monnnn.
Had his career had the chance to stay under the guidance of Cuss Damato I think there would be a lot less of a question over who was the best.
Had his career had the chance to stay under the guidance of Cuss Damato I think there would be a lot less of a question over who was the best.
One and Only
New member
Lets Go Buffalo Bills.lol
One and Only
New member
Tyson In his Prime
bLacKjAck.
Lift Heavy
What PI said was so true. The more Tyson let Don King into his life the more it went downhill, Don King made him a celeb instead of a fighter, and Tyson started to really love that and it ruined his career imo.
In his prime --- you watch those fights man, he was just plain nasty, and those records PI listed, I dunno how you could argue they weren't "great" bc they were. They didn't seem it when they fought Tyson in his prime bc he literally MAULED them to the point of it really hurting their career. That is how nasty the kid was.
When I watch ESPN classic and see allllll those fights and see the ones nowadays and compare. It just isn't even close imo. Tyson fought with more adrenaline and intensity, and precision than anyone I have ever seen. Not to mention over hald his fights the guys had like a foot+mad weight on him.
In his prime --- you watch those fights man, he was just plain nasty, and those records PI listed, I dunno how you could argue they weren't "great" bc they were. They didn't seem it when they fought Tyson in his prime bc he literally MAULED them to the point of it really hurting their career. That is how nasty the kid was.
When I watch ESPN classic and see allllll those fights and see the ones nowadays and compare. It just isn't even close imo. Tyson fought with more adrenaline and intensity, and precision than anyone I have ever seen. Not to mention over hald his fights the guys had like a foot+mad weight on him.
Jumper
New member
You mirror my thoughts. Holmes and Holyfield. I might give the edge to Holyfield, but could go either way.
I think Holyfield exposed Tyson for the skilled bully that he was. Tyson hit Holyfield with everything but the kitchen sink in that first fight. I think it was the 2nd round. Holyfield was unaffected and just kept coming. That is when Tyson looked for a way out and ate ear.
Buster Douglas essentially did the same thing. He took Tyson's best and put him down.
I miss that 70's era with so many great heavyweights. Not only Ali, Frasier, and Foreman. But also, Ken Norton, Jimmy Young, Ernie Shavers. It was a strong class.
PumpingIron
Well-known member
You're a bit off. Tyson looked like garbage both of those fights. It was a big transition in his career. Leaving behind the peek-a-boo technique, not utilizing body shot, his jab and his great defensive skills.
bLacKjAck.
Lift Heavy
That was right about the time Don King really started taking over..no?
PumpingIron
Well-known member
Kind of...basically after his trainer died and then he fired his next trainer...i forget if his firing his 2nd trainer was influenced by king of not...i'd say most likely
Jumper
New member
We probably just see it a little differently. Maybe he looked bad because of his training habits, and maybe he just got out boxed by superior opponents in those fights. Maybe both. Whatever the reasons are, in the final analysis in both of those fights he was soundly thrashed. No champion gets there without overcoming adversity to some degree or another. With Tyson, when the adversity struck, he was not able to rise above and prevail.
PumpingIron
Well-known member
I agree, Tyson is a classic case of his environment...
But I think that his training was the reason he was defeated by a superiour opponent...he knocked down douglas though.
But I think that his training was the reason he was defeated by a superiour opponent...he knocked down douglas though.
TripDog
Bananas
ya douglas got saved by the bell...mike had him beat!
Jumper
New member
True dat. But that is really what I am talking about. He was always in control of his other fights. Normally, when he knocked 'em down, they stayed down or basically quit. When Douglas and Holyfield took his best stuff and stayed right in front of him and delivered their own, he didn't know how to respond.
He was definately fun to watch when he was wacking guy's out though. :twisted:
Niko
Board Supporter
The 70's were great for the heavyweight division. The fighters allowed one another to define greatness.
I will give the nod to Holyfield also because he came up from a lighter weight class and had some remarkable fights. He had courage, heart, and inner strength that Tyson did not have. The 10th round of the first Holyfield/Bowe fight was one of the greatest single rounds in heavyweight title history and is an example of what I am talking about.
Whenever Tyson was confronted with someone who didn't fear him, he crumpled. Before the first fight between Holyfield and Tyson, Teddy Atlas said Tyson was a coward and would do something to get dq'd. Tyson bit Holyfield's ear.
Tyson, never had that defining of moment of greatness. For all his abilities and skill, he lacked heart. And once he left Kevin Rooney he lacked direction and abandoned the things that made him special. Greatness can be defined about how you handle yourself after defeat. With that in mind, look at Tyson and Holyfield respectively and how they handled defeat.
TripDog
Bananas
mike was a street kid...the fact he got to where he did was a sucsess.....he in his early prime would scrub holyfield without a doubt.....lets be real our primes aren't at the same time...like when he fought larry holmes...yea tyson kicked his a$$ but that wasn't holmes prime.......hahah that is a good fight tho.....fukc holmes......kid dynamite baby:twisted:
Niko
Board Supporter
Making millions doesn't make you a great boxer though. I'm a life long boxing fan and when Tyson was first coming up I was in awe. After one fight, in which he knocked his opponent out in the second round he viewed his performance as a C+. I was impressed as here was a young kid that's hungry and sees room for improvement when most would give themselves an A for such a performance.
Then he $hit it all away. He had the ability to be one of the greatest of all time and now we are arguing whether he was a great heavyweight of the past 25 years. That to me is not what greatness is.
Without a doubt he would beat Holyfield when Tyson was in his prime? Push aside the fact that they were in different weight classes at the time, it would have been a more competitive fight but it's not a no doubter.
PumpingIron
Well-known member
different weight classes?
PumpingIron
Well-known member
Why did I not know this...I'm ashamed of myself.
PumpingIron
Well-known member
Thier first fight,, Holyfield was 4 pounds ligther and the 2nd they were both 218.
Holyfield lost some decent fights in his prime as well...bowe, moorer, bowe again...
Holyfield lost some decent fights in his prime as well...bowe, moorer, bowe again...
texxlnghorn
Member
I think Tyson, the day he beat Spinks.
L.L. no way. He got KO'd by some chumps.
Holyfield was no punk though. He's definatley in the top 4 or 5
1. Tyson
2. Ali
3. Holyfield
4. geroge forman
5. Joe frazier
It would be great to see a round robin tournment with these guys.
L.L. no way. He got KO'd by some chumps.
Holyfield was no punk though. He's definatley in the top 4 or 5
1. Tyson
2. Ali
3. Holyfield
4. geroge forman
5. Joe frazier
It would be great to see a round robin tournment with these guys.
PumpingIron
Well-known member
Lewis only lost twice in his pro career...once in 94 to McCall, who wasn't a chump and once in Rahman in 01 who isn't either...