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Whisky’s test e, tbol, liquidien and winny cycle log

Hyde said:
Nice PR! Time to put the peddle down and break some new ground!
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Thanks brother.

Normally at the end of cycles I hit a new one rep just before pct and then really struggle to just keep as close as poss to that during pct, normally I’ve had 8 weeks of progressive overload at that stage though.....

This time because the last month has largely been static and much more time off I feel much stronger. I’m also going to eat in a surplus through pct so going to try and gain a bit more strength for sure.

Best thing on that pr (aside from it being a 27lb pr) was how much better I was at every weight up to it. No misses and it was all solid, previous cycle I was missing lifts above 330 every now and again, this time they are there easy, feels like 4 sets of 8 at 330 would be comfortable for example.
 
That’s a great feeling to have, when things that were maximal become something you can rep comfortably.
 
Just keep on grinding... I wouldn't expect tons out of the Winny, and definitely not much strength. Not saying you won't get stronger, you will but only as much as you would with whatever new muscle is built. There isn't enough androgenic action there to drive strength increases via the CNS like a lot of gear has. Plus you dropped something and replaced didn't you? I could be wrong, too many threads, but if you dropped something when you put it in then if what you dropped was higher androgenic that would also play into strength levels declining. Winny at the end of a run is great to take up a lot of the SHBG that is in the blood, but if you cut something out that was stronger androgenically then you could still expect a little performance decrease. Most add it in without removing another compound, so the other stronger gear can take advantage of the SHBG being lowered all the sudden.
 
Whisky said:
Ok, sorry I’m way behind on updates but here we go

Day 101 - another forced day off (genuine work issues)

Day 102 - back to it today - took the days off plus some thoughts from benny above and just tried to prime the cns rather than go heavy. Felt decent moving some moderate weight.

Day 103 - feel great in myself, mentally reset. Did chest and back

Day 104 - some light speed deads and arms/abs - I’m feeling alright here although did run out of test one jab early so this was my last pin of the cycle (felt quite sad)

Day 105 - still running the winny (till end of the week), I’m away this weekend so either had to test lifts this week or next, with the test running out slightly early I decided to slam down some hydrazine and go for back squat.

Felt really decent and threw up a solid rep at 407 - first time over 400lbs and made up.

Feeling excited for dead’s on Wednesday now as feel like strength is steaming back

Let’s fcuking have this
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Awesome dude!!!
 
Day 106 - some light chest and arms work

Day 107 - had a go at 550 for one on dead and missed it (made 506 easy). Honestly thought I had it so pissed off

Day 108 - day 111 I’m away on a little Xmas holiday, just eating and resting, gonna try that 550 when I get back but aware I’m now a week since last jab, winny ran out yesterday and my focus after Monday will be pct so I have one chance on Monday to get that sucker.

On the plus side I’m starting to lean out as some water drops, will get a pic up next week to show a post cycle and then another post pct.

Probably a good time to outline pct again

Starting Monday

Clomid 50/25/25/25/12.5/12.5
Nolva 20/20/20/10/10/10
Adex - tapering down from 1 mg eod
Invictus - stated dose from a week on Monday
M test - stated dose from a week on Monday
Predators new elixir GDA product before every carb meal
Calories - staying in a surplus
 
Day 112

Ok so after a 4 day enforced break (was a nice holiday) I tried to hit that 550 dead. Failed badly, not even close so time to focus on pct. But gonna give a little write up on this cycle now and then a full one post pct.

Overall comment

Overall I’ve wnjoyed my first pin cycle, I think getting over that fear of needles and pinning successfully has been a big plus, the complete lack of sides (except water retention) has also been a bonus. As I found with recreational drugs by body seems to tolerate stuff like this well.

Main downsides were the water retention, that just seems to be a given for me off anything that aromatises heavily. Despite coming in relatively lean at the start that’s not been visible throughout making progress harder to judge. I also don’t think I appear to respond amazingly to test alone. I felt decent on cycle but wouldn’t say I felt unbelievable like some report from test.

Kicker phase

So tbol and liquidien was a great combo for strength. No doubt I was at my strongest after 8 weeks. Wish I’d tested maxes then. Felt good and was smashing barriers. Caber addressed the slight prolactin issue.

Finisher

Winny if I’m honest was disappointing, however, to be fair the water and/or fat I gained didn’t let it shine. The training program I followed also hindered my progress late on so I intend to try it again but on this run it’s not added much from what I could tell.

Strength

When I look at pre cycle thenstrength gains were ridiculous, however, pre cycle I was way below strength because of a cut, if we look at previous lifetime bests gains were solid. Dead up over 30lbs (although I know I had more, I just never tested at the right time), squat up just under 30lbs (probably never had more), bench the only time I tested was up 8lbs, however I hit a set of 5 at 10lbs off my previous 1rm mid cycle so again should have tested mid way

One thing the above highlights is that strength dropped from mid cycle to end. Now that surprises me a bit but makes me think that I might be able to better maintain end cycle levels but it also made me realise I needed to program better.

Lean mass

Hard to tell - will report back after pct

Lessons learned

A) program two 8 week training cycles rather than one PO based one

B) look at lower converting compounds like eq and a lower test dose.

C) don’t be a **** house and reduce Cals because you think you are getting fat (I put them back up but lost a couple of weeks)

D) plan around life on longer cycles better. I got sick on cycle this time, rare for me but needed to program/plan better round that. Also being on for 16 weeks work and life will get in the way, my previous 8 weekers I put everything else to one side, couldn’t do that this time so that threw me.

E) even on gear don’t just go heavy every god damn session lol
 
Whisky said:
Day 112

Ok so after a 4 day enforced break (was a nice holiday) I tried to hit that 550 dead. Failed badly, not even close so time to focus on pct. But gonna give a little write up on this cycle now and then a full one post pct.

Overall comment

Overall I’ve wnjoyed my first pin cycle, I think getting over that fear of needles and pinning successfully has been a big plus, the complete lack of sides (except water retention) has also been a bonus. As I found with recreational drugs by body seems to tolerate stuff like this well.

Main downsides were the water retention, that just seems to be a given for me off anything that aromatises heavily. Despite coming in relatively lean at the start that’s not been visible throughout making progress harder to judge. I also don’t think I appear to respond amazingly to test alone. I felt decent on cycle but wouldn’t say I felt unbelievable like some report from test.

Kicker phase

So tbol and liquidien was a great combo for strength. No doubt I was at my strongest after 8 weeks. Wish I’d tested maxes then. Felt good and was smashing barriers. Caber addressed the slight prolactin issue.

Finisher

Winny if I’m honest was disappointing, however, to be fair the water and/or fat I gained didn’t let it shine. The training program I followed also hindered my progress late on so I intend to try it again but on this run it’s not added much from what I could tell.

Strength

When I look at pre cycle thenstrength gains were ridiculous, however, pre cycle I was way below strength because of a cut, if we look at previous lifetime bests gains were solid. Dead up over 30lbs (although I know I had more, I just never tested at the right time), squat up just under 30lbs (probably never had more), bench the only time I tested was up 8lbs, however I hit a set of 5 at 10lbs off my previous 1rm mid cycle so again should have tested mid way

One thing the above highlights is that strength dropped from mid cycle to end. Now that surprises me a bit but makes me think that I might be able to better maintain end cycle levels but it also made me realise I needed to program better.

Lean mass

Hard to tell - will report back after pct

Lessons learned

A) program two 8 week training cycles rather than one PO based one

B) look at lower converting compounds like eq and a lower test dose.

C) don’t be a **** house and reduce Cals because you think you are getting fat (I put them back up but lost a couple of weeks)

D) plan around life on longer cycles better. I got sick on cycle this time, rare for me but needed to program/plan better round that. Also being on for 16 weeks work and life will get in the way, my previous 8 weekers I put everything else to one side, couldn’t do that this time so that threw me.

E) even on gear don’t just go heavy every god damn session lol
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Awesome feedback brother
 
Well you learned some very useful things.

You aromatize and store water a lot. You were strongest on dienelone and felt good once caber was on board. Tbol was great for you. You need to move past early- intermediate training modalities, as they’re too aggressive for you to go 16 weeks on end.

Bet you were good for 240 dead before holiday. Also bet you would do well on IM dienelone e if you can find any around. Recomp and strength on it is supposed to be legit, basically tren-lite.
 
Enjoyed following.! The hard part is to try to keep the intensity up off cycle. I have seen this alot. Go into PCT and lose the intensity and or consistency and become disappointed in PCT. Or they overdo it and overtrain there PCT.

looking forward to your PCT.
What is your workout plan?
 
Studhorse said:
Enjoyed following.! The hard part is to try to keep the intensity up off cycle. I have seen this alot. Go into PCT and lose the intensity and or consistency and become disappointed in PCT. Or they overdo it and overtrain there PCT.

looking forward to your PCT.
What is your workout plan?
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Thanks brother

Workout plan for pct is the cube method. Logic being that it’s still based around the three main lifts my on cycle training was but only one week in three is heavy on each lift (hopefully avoiding overtraining whilst keeping enough stimulus to keep or increase strength gains). The power and reps days will provide a slightly different stimulus to on cycle whilst being less taxing on my cns

Should be fun
 
I love going low carb on pct. I mean losing weight sucks because you feel big but it's almost never a time when you add only muscle on a cycle and keeping protein intake high will preserve muscle. I wouldn't skip carbs completely but I would bring them to max 200 and the carbs would come mostly from something with solutuble fiber like oats. Saturated fats if you can avoid do it at all cost and focus on omega 3s. Anyways I've probably mentioned this 1000s of times. Enjoyed following the cycle!
 
whats up everyone?? make your way over to the company promo section and put your apps in for a chance for a tub of BLooD LoRD or a bottle of BLoOD Drive. trust me ... you gonna want to try this.
I have a very obvious promo up and running.
 
Hey guys,

Quick update coming up on 2 weeks off cycle.

Been a weird one as between work and refurbishing my gym I’ve been busy - with walls down in the gym I’ve also not been able to train for a few days (although swinging a hammer has been a pretty solid workout).

Weight holding at 224 so a few pounds of water off (I look leaner so it’s water dropping). Will have more consistent training from Monday so can start seeing where strength is at.

Invictus starts tomorrow....
 
Whisky said:
Hey guys,

Quick update coming up on 2 weeks off cycle.

Been a weird one as between work and refurbishing my gym I’ve been busy - with walls down in the gym I’ve also not been able to train for a few days (although swinging a hammer has been a pretty solid workout).

Weight holding at 224 so a few pounds of water off (I look leaner so it’s water dropping). Will have more consistent training from Monday so can start seeing where strength is at.

Invictus starts tomorrow....
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Gonna be nice to see where you're at when the bloat goes away.
 
Chados said:
Gonna be nice to see where you're at when the bloat goes away.
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Yep, shoulders are already showing the same sort of definition I get a lower bf, veins popping a bit more etc.

I’ll bang up a pic tomorrow if I get chance
 
Merry Xmas AM,

Hope all are enjoying the festive spell.

I’m 2.5 weeks into pct. feeling decent at the moment, no dramas, no emotional clomid sides, running clomid at 25 and nolva at 20 currently (although nolva down to 10 in a few days). Dropped the ai

Still got gw going and started invictus for cortisol last Sunday.

Libido has been noticeably high, well to be more accurate it was high on cycle and has maintained. That’s been a real nice plus point for this cycle and I’ve had great sex throughout, hcg certainly seemed to do its job as teste size was maintained.

Weight is sitting at 224 (26 up from start of cycle). Now I have used the need for a calorie surplus to go crazy on holiday food to be honest. I’ve been training and active but yeah I’ve smashed some Cals so there’s been a touch of fat gain for sure. Pic below.

That said, 26 lbs still there, hopefully some more water to come off, it’s feeling like I added some decent lean mass as well....

Invalid Link Removed
 
Whisky said:
Merry Xmas AM,

Hope all are enjoying the festive spell.

I’m 2.5 weeks into pct. feeling decent at the moment, no dramas, no emotional clomid sides, running clomid at 25 and nolva at 20 currently (although nolva down to 10 in a few days). Dropped the ai

Still got gw going and started invictus for cortisol last Sunday.

Libido has been noticeably high, well to be more accurate it was high on cycle and has maintained. That’s been a real nice plus point for this cycle and I’ve had great sex throughout, hcg certainly seemed to do its job as teste size was maintained.

Weight is sitting at 224 (26 up from start of cycle). Now I have used the need for a calorie surplus to go crazy on holiday food to be honest. I’ve been training and active but yeah I’ve smashed some Cals so there’s been a touch of fat gain for sure. Pic below.

That said, 26 lbs still there, hopefully some more water to come off, it’s feeling like I added some decent lean mass as well....

Invalid Link Removed
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You can see the shoulders are still very lean, muscle separation, veins, all that after a huge weight gain. Just goes to show what aas can do. You will lose some water especially if you drop some carbs. Have you gotten leaner around the waist? Kinda hard to tell from the picture but it looks like it.
 
Chados said:
You can see the shoulders are still very lean, muscle separation, veins, all that after a huge weight gain. Just goes to show what aas can do. You will lose some water especially if you drop some carbs. Have you gotten leaner around the waist? Kinda hard to tell from the picture but it looks like it.
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Thanks bro, waistline is pretty similar but carbs are really high for me at the moment. I’m keeping calories and carbs up this week to really try and prevent the weight/strength loss I’ve had post cycle before. I know you talk a lot about cortisol so I’m using invictus, slightly shorter training sessions (still 90 mins though) and more sleep.

If I can finish pct 20+ lbs up I’m pretty sure a 10lb cut will bring me back to a decent state.....
 
Whisky said:
Merry Xmas AM,

Hope all are enjoying the festive spell.

I’m 2.5 weeks into pct. feeling decent at the moment, no dramas, no emotional clomid sides, running clomid at 25 and nolva at 20 currently (although nolva down to 10 in a few days). Dropped the ai

Still got gw going and started invictus for cortisol last Sunday.

Libido has been noticeably high, well to be more accurate it was high on cycle and has maintained. That’s been a real nice plus point for this cycle and I’ve had great sex throughout, hcg certainly seemed to do its job as teste size was maintained.

Weight is sitting at 224 (26 up from start of cycle). Now I have used the need for a calorie surplus to go crazy on holiday food to be honest. I’ve been training and active but yeah I’ve smashed some Cals so there’s been a touch of fat gain for sure. Pic below.

That said, 26 lbs still there, hopefully some more water to come off, it’s feeling like I added some decent lean mass as well....

Invalid Link Removed
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Lookin good brother. noticed that Tri popping out!
 
Whisky said:
Thanks bro, waistline is pretty similar but carbs are really high for me at the moment. I’m keeping calories and carbs up this week to really try and prevent the weight/strength loss I’ve had post cycle before. I know you talk a lot about cortisol so I’m using invictus, slightly shorter training sessions (still 90 mins though) and more sleep.

If I can finish pct 20+ lbs up I’m pretty sure a 10lb cut will bring me back to a decent state.....
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Yup I suggest you do everything it takes to manage cortisol. 1000mg vitamin c an hour pre workout. Any food that can help with cortisol and if the wallet allows and if you feel it's worth it to add a cortisol blocker. Drink a lot of water. If your carbs are extremely high it doesn't hurt to drop them down a little and add omega 3s to get to the calorie intake that you want and eat most of the carbs early in the day up till your workout and right after. Night time try focus on protein and fats. I'd also consider having most of the carbs from something with solutuble fibers like oats and not as much white rice, potato etc.
 
fek the tris poppin.. look at the abs coming in !! keep it up my man dont slip too far into the calorie abyss. i know im trying not to~
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
fek the tris poppin.. look at the abs coming in !! keep it up my man dont slip too far into the calorie abyss. i know im trying not to~
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Good advice, I need to start reigning it in. It’s on thing to make sure I’m in a surplus but another when I’m kidding myself the xmas sweets are to hold onto the gains lol. Dangerous for me as I’ve no off switch
 
Whisky said:
Good advice, I need to start reigning it in. It’s on thing to make sure I’m in a surplus but another when I’m kidding myself the xmas sweets are to hold onto the gains lol. Dangerous for me as I’ve no off switch
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Bro you can literally eat more in a window than anyone I’ve heard of, aside from a few competitive eaters like Beard Meets Food and Brian Shaw maybe.

That cheat you posted once was just epic.
 
Whisky said:
Merry Xmas AM,

Hope all are enjoying the festive spell.

I’m 2.5 weeks into pct. feeling decent at the moment, no dramas, no emotional clomid sides, running clomid at 25 and nolva at 20 currently (although nolva down to 10 in a few days). Dropped the ai

Still got gw going and started invictus for cortisol last Sunday.

Libido has been noticeably high, well to be more accurate it was high on cycle and has maintained. That’s been a real nice plus point for this cycle and I’ve had great sex throughout, hcg certainly seemed to do its job as teste size was maintained.

Weight is sitting at 224 (26 up from start of cycle). Now I have used the need for a calorie surplus to go crazy on holiday food to be honest. I’ve been training and active but yeah I’ve smashed some Cals so there’s been a touch of fat gain for sure. Pic below.

That said, 26 lbs still there, hopefully some more water to come off, it’s feeling like I added some decent lean mass as well....

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...
Nice work mate! I can definitely see shoulder, tri chest and lat gains in this photo. Reckon you will feel pretty lean after another couple kgs water comes off.
 
Whisky said:
Good advice, I need to start reigning it in. It’s on thing to make sure I’m in a surplus but another when I’m kidding myself the xmas sweets are to hold onto the gains lol. Dangerous for me as I’ve no off switch
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Yeah I went pretty nuts on the tucker myself over the last week.
 
Yo AM,

Update during PCT (updating less as let’s face it, pct isn’t the most exciting).

It’s 3.5 weeks since last pin. Currently down to 25 clomid, 10 nolva, invictus and gw (this will be the next 2.5 weeks the same)

In all honesty I’m feeling decent. No major issues at all. Eating way above maintenance but weight static at 226 (in fairness I’d say I’ve probably dropped some water and added some fat though).

Kept training levels high though, found top end strength dropped off but solid at between 3-8 reps. Slightly down from peak on cycle strength but similar to cycle end.

Really noticing the impact of no mk677 on recovery, had been running that over a year - had forgotten what doms felt like lol

But yeah, no dramas here at all really.
 
Hyde said:
What were you running mk at? I would love to have no DOMS in off-time!
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20 or 25 Ed bro (20 mostly but had to switch to a different brand when fusion was oos and the tabs were 12.5’s)

Noticed it with the running I do as well, didn’t get any knee or joint stiffness like I would normally off that.

I would say that of all the purported benefits I did only really notice the recovery. Wouldn’t say the fat loss or muscle gain was noticeable for me (and I obviously had spells off cycle in that period).

I’ve only stopped it as been reading a lot about impact on insulin sensitivity. Planning to use it again inbetween cycles (in conjunction with dac) and then on cycle I’m planning to run stuff like eq anyway (which should keep me recovering well)
 
Whisky said:
Yo AM,

Update during PCT (updating less as let’s face it, pct isn’t the most exciting).

It’s 3.5 weeks since last pin. Currently down to 25 clomid, 10 nolva, invictus and gw (this will be the next 2.5 weeks the same)

In all honesty I’m feeling decent. No major issues at all. Eating way above maintenance but weight static at 226 (in fairness I’d say I’ve probably dropped some water and added some fat though).

Kept training levels high though, found top end strength dropped off but solid at between 3-8 reps. Slightly down from peak on cycle strength but similar to cycle end.

Really noticing the impact of no mk677 on recovery, had been running that over a year - had forgotten what doms felt like lol

But yeah, no dramas here at all really.
Click to expand...

Between the HCG and your SERMS I bet you are already up over 400 maybe even as high as 500 already, should be a really good recovery.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Yep, sorry ADHD, I often think people just follow along with my thought processes... I usually try to reread my post to make sure all the pertinent info managed to get onto the page.
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Haha got you. Well to be fair the post wasn't meant for me, apology accepted.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Between the HCG and your SERMS I bet you are already up over 400 maybe even as high as 500 already, should be a really good recovery.
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Quick update

I’m updating less because if we are honest pct is boring AF. Fighting hard to maintain everything but it’s never as glorious as on cycle.

I’ve managed to keep the weight from cycle end to know. Body composition same as last pic. Key for me this year will be keeping the lean mass when I cut, if I can do that better than last year I can start my winter bulk from a better position for sure.

Been working on some new stuff in training, pulling deads from a deficit to improve my break from the floor and using a hook grip up to 400 lbs to get used to that (channelling my inner benny with that - grip feels way more solid than I thought it would).

Switched flat bench to incline, in an attempt to improve my overall bench.

Legs been hitting more volume than normal in sessions to really get the blood flowing and try and create a different stimulus. Definitely squatting and deadlifting heavy 3x week for 12 weeks set me back ultimately. Heavy once a week feels much more acceptable

But generally I feel mint, horny as a dog with two dicks, life’s ok for sure
 
Great progress man. If you're up for it I have some different ideas to incorporate more squats into your weekly workouts. I have gotten a lot of help from the guys at my gym and my squats and deads have exploded this year because of it. Just let me know man.
 
Right let’s update

So we are coming up to 5 weeks since last pin (started clomid/nolva a week after).....

Definitely the last few days have been challenging. The drop in top end strength has now hit all ranges and badly. I’m only just lifting past where I was at start of cycle. It’s been that dramatic a drop off I know it has to be a short term thing.

Mentally I’m good, a bit fatigued but nothing extreme. Still getting to the gym, fighting the lack of desire to train but not going isn’t something I would accept of myself.

Last few days feel like a big shift though, like everything that was assisting had left my system but I’m not producing anything myself yet.

Libido has dropped off. I’m still able to perform though and still probably higher libido than pre cycle tbh.

As much as I’m now missing being on I’m definitely giving myself proper recovery time. I want to get a lot of that strength back natty before I jump back on.

Body composition sadly still the same. I do seem to have somehow gained around 10lbs of fat within 2 weeks at the start of the cycle, despite reverse dieting at the time (and at a calorie level I’d cut at months before). When I get time I’m going to try and look into that as I know it shouldn’t happen normally, I assume I have some predisposition to fat regain but literally the only difference was the addition of gear. It never happened on 4-andro but did on trest and test. I’m thinking it’s obviously linked to higher estrogen levels and maybe that affects former fatties more? Will be running much lower test doses next time and probably exam from the start I think
 
Whisky said:
Right let’s update

So we are coming up to 5 weeks since last pin (started clomid/nolva a week after).....

Definitely the last few days have been challenging. The drop in top end strength has now hit all ranges and badly. I’m only just lifting past where I was at start of cycle. It’s been that dramatic a drop off I know it has to be a short term thing.

Mentally I’m good, a bit fatigued but nothing extreme. Still getting to the gym, fighting the lack of desire to train but not going isn’t something I would accept of myself.

Last few days feel like a big shift though, like everything that was assisting had left my system but I’m not producing anything myself yet.

Libido has dropped off. I’m still able to perform though and still probably higher libido than pre cycle tbh.

As much as I’m now missing being on I’m definitely giving myself proper recovery time. I want to get a lot of that strength back natty before I jump back on.

Body composition sadly still the same. I do seem to have somehow gained around 10lbs of fat within 2 weeks at the start of the cycle, despite reverse dieting at the time (and at a calorie level I’d cut at months before). When I get time I’m going to try and look into that as I know it shouldn’t happen normally, I assume I have some predisposition to fat regain but literally the only difference was the addition of gear. It never happened on 4-andro but did on trest and test. I’m thinking it’s obviously linked to higher estrogen levels and maybe that affects former fatties more? Will be running much lower test doses next time and probably exam from the start I think
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Maybe high carbs just isn't for you. I think you're overestimating the fat you've gained. I'd argue it's more bloat but also a bit cortisol problems. Switching diets should be done gradually, kinda tapering down the carbs a little. It'd hard to tell but it would be great if you could type down your diet and maybe we can all get along on this forum and try to figure it out. Anyways keep the mood up, we can fix this together.
 
Chados said:
Maybe high carbs just isn't for you. I think you're overestimating the fat you've gained. I'd argue it's more bloat but also a bit cortisol problems. Switching diets should be done gradually, kinda tapering down the carbs a little. It'd hard to tell but it would be great if you could type down your diet and maybe we can all get along on this forum and try to figure it out. Anyways keep the mood up, we can fix this together.
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Cheers bro, I’m fairly ok with it, just a touch surprised really.....but I’ve learnt enough since I’ve been on AM to know I have a lot to learn about how my body reacts to compounds and cycles.

I think the biggest surprise has been that my first andro cycle gave me solid gains with no bloat (granted virgin receptors will have played a big part).

Diet, with the exception of the week over Xmas is pretty standard. Copied below from another post where I laid out my 4 kcal day

I actively try to get variety but below is a pretty standard day

Meal 1 - 100g oats made with almond milk, 50g protein powder, 15g almonds, 15g walnuts, 25g dried prunes

Meal 2 - 2 eggs plus 6 egg whites omelette with cheese, mushroom, pepper and asparagus. Served with either smoked salmon, chicken breast or salmon fillet plus sourdough toast

Meal 3 - 200g chicken breast with bad of mixed veg

Meal 4 - 250g prawns with stir fry veg and cauli rice

Meal 5 sausage and bacon sandwich, bowl of fruit, 500g Greek yogurt

Meal 6 protein bar

During the day I have a couple of other protein snacks and some dried fruit during training plus a shake after training.

Generally my protein comes in around 350 - 400g with carbs varying between 300 and 400g (aside from that Xmas week never over 400). Fat is of course the rest.

Cheat meals are maybe once every 2-3 months and normally only when we get a rare night out to a top restaurant, tbh those are very high quality so although calories increase a big it’s quality food. Maybe once every 6 months I’ll smash a 5,000 calorie proper cheat meal.

I use a little too much processed protein imo, being honest it’s half convenience but half because a protein bar or shake is my treat. Satisfying my fat guy sweet tooth.

I’ll take a current pic tonight for comparison
 
Whisky said:
Cheers bro, I’m fairly ok with it, just a touch surprised really.....but I’ve learnt enough since I’ve been on AM to know I have a lot to learn about how my body reacts to compounds and cycles.

I think the biggest surprise has been that my first andro cycle gave me solid gains with no bloat (granted virgin receptors will have played a big part).

Diet, with the exception of the week over Xmas is pretty standard. Copied below from another post where I laid out my 4 kcal day

I actively try to get variety but below is a pretty standard day

Meal 1 - 100g oats made with almond milk, 50g protein powder, 15g almonds, 15g walnuts, 25g dried prunes

Meal 2 - 2 eggs plus 6 egg whites omelette with cheese, mushroom, pepper and asparagus. Served with either smoked salmon, chicken breast or salmon fillet plus sourdough toast

Meal 3 - 200g chicken breast with bad of mixed veg

Meal 4 - 250g prawns with stir fry veg and cauli rice

Meal 5 sausage and bacon sandwich, bowl of fruit, 500g Greek yogurt

Meal 6 protein bar

During the day I have a couple of other protein snacks and some dried fruit during training plus a shake after training.

Generally my protein comes in around 350 - 400g with carbs varying between 300 and 400g (aside from that Xmas week never over 400). Fat is of course the rest.

Cheat meals are maybe once every 2-3 months and normally only when we get a rare night out to a top restaurant, tbh those are very high quality so although calories increase a big it’s quality food. Maybe once every 6 months I’ll smash a 5,000 calorie proper cheat meal.

I use a little too much processed protein imo, being honest it’s half convenience but half because a protein bar or shake is my treat. Satisfying my fat guy sweet tooth.

I’ll take a current pic tonight for comparison
Click to expand...

I was hoping I'd had something to really point out but your diet is fairly clean darn it!

I'm gonna try to critizise the best that I can though. You probably eat too much calories simple as that.

I look a meal 5 that looks tasty as hell by the way and I see bacon which definitely can be used in bodybuilding but isn't optimal especially with the fruit on the side and 500gr of Greek yoghurt which I don't eat often personally but I believe it has quite a lot of plain sugar depending on brand some have 3gr some 6. When you eat (bad fats) and stack then with fruit sugar or plain sugar its arguably the easiest way to add fat and here's where meal timing comes in. Remember that we're all different and we use different amount of energy etc so don't just take my words and think this is gonna be optimal for you.

Plain sugar, fruits is probably better to eat by itself after a workout. Separating high amounts of fats and carbs could be the best option.

Example, breakfast oats and eggs

Workout, Fruit and a pshake/bcaa/creatine etc

Snack, half of the nuts

Meal 1, chicken and rice

Meal 2, bacon and sausage (not the best but hey, gotta enjoy yourself)

Meal 3, (about the same as meal 1)

Snack 2, the rest of the nuts and cottage cheese/Greek yoghurt

Just put out a random schedule but you see my point. High carbs and high protein one meal and high fat high protein the other. When your done with the cycle you should definitely go down on the protein, 400gr is really high.
 
Chados said:
I was hoping I'd had something to really point out but your diet is fairly clean darn it!

I'm gonna try to critizise the best that I can though. You probably eat too much calories simple as that.

I look a meal 5 that looks tasty as hell by the way and I see bacon which definitely can be used in bodybuilding but isn't optimal especially with the fruit on the side and 500gr of Greek yoghurt which I don't eat often personally but I believe it has quite a lot of plain sugar depending on brand some have 3gr some 6. When you eat (bad fats) and stack then with fruit sugar or plain sugar its arguably the easiest way to add fat and here's where meal timing comes in. Remember that we're all different and we use different amount of energy etc so don't just take my words and think this is gonna be optimal for you.

Plain sugar, fruits is probably better to eat by itself after a workout. Separating high amounts of fats and carbs could be the best option.

Example, breakfast oats and eggs

Workout, Fruit and a pshake/bcaa/creatine etc

Snack, half of the nuts

Meal 1, chicken and rice

Meal 2, bacon and sausage (not the best but hey, gotta enjoy yourself)

Meal 3, (about the same as meal 1)

Snack 2, the rest of the nuts and cottage cheese/Greek yoghurt

Just put out a random schedule but you see my point. High carbs and high protein one meal and high fat high protein the other. When your done with the cycle you should definitely go down on the protein, 400gr is really high.
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Yeah in fairness the fruit timing isn’t great. It’s the easiest time to work it in and I like the sweetness but I agree it’s not optimal. Have been eating like that for the past few years though, only on trest and test did I gain that much weight that quickly.

It’s typically the thing that gets reduced or cut when I cut (generally I just reduced Cals mainly from carbs in a cut) and cutting I’ve always been able to do well in terms of losing weight and looking lean, I do lose a lot of strength normally though.

Gaining muscle with little to no fat appears to be much tougher though.....even on cycle.......
 
I agree with Chados - for you, easiest things would be structuring meal timing more efficiently and just pulling some cals out.

I know you like eating tons of protein, but 350+ is just flat out overkill for your weight and lean mass. So if you needed to pull cals out, in your case, they could come from any macro you like, as even protein is more than covered.
 
Update pic from today. Weight at 223

Even with strength dropping I do think I’ve added a decent amount of muscle mass. Would like to think that 13 pounds off will see me ripped up like last summer but I think it might need more....

Invalid Link Removed
 
Whisky said:
Yeah in fairness the fruit timing isn’t great. It’s the easiest time to work it in and I like the sweetness but I agree it’s not optimal. Have been eating like that for the past few years though, only on trest and test did I gain that much weight that quickly.

It’s typically the thing that gets reduced or cut when I cut (generally I just reduced Cals mainly from carbs in a cut) and cutting I’ve always been able to do well in terms of losing weight and looking lean, I do lose a lot of strength normally though.

Gaining muscle with little to no fat appears to be much tougher though.....even on cycle.......
Click to expand...

I have no doubt you'll covering the muscle part but as you said not adding fat can be tricky of course when you're gaining weight. Maybe go down to around 3500 calories and have Greek yoghurt with fruits as a dessert after training. I don't see a problem with having fruits and yoghurt but when you add sausage and bacon next to it it's just a bad combination.

Also when you're on steroids you really can get away with much more so now during pct you'll end up with more cortisol which will also affect you negatively.
 
Whisky said:
Update pic from today. Weight at 223

Even with strength dropping I do think I’ve added a decent amount of muscle mass. Would like to think that 13 pounds off will see me ripped up like last summer but I think it might need more....

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

Hard to say how much you wanna lose but its probably a good idea to keep as much as possible now and maybe try to cut fat rather than weight slowly and gradually. The added muscle mass will increase metabolism too!
 
Chados said:
Hard to say how much you wanna lose but its probably a good idea to keep as much as possible now and maybe try to cut fat rather than weight slowly and gradually. The added muscle mass will increase metabolism too!
Click to expand...

Definitely trying to maintain at the moment, made the mistake of cutting straight after my trest epistane cycle and totally tanked my t. Was a schoolboy error.

I’m not planning to cut until march at the earliest....

Just for full disclosure, that sausage sandwich is made with chicken sausages, bacon medallions and two thin slices of a homemade whole meal and rye bread....still not optimal but not quite as bad as it first sounds lol
 
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