Whats the offical word on Oratropin-1?

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UNDERTAKER

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I heard a lot about it when it very first came out, but no new logs or info from more users in this or the IBE forum. It would be nice if anyone who tried it could post a summary of their experience with it on this thread.
 
I was going to do a log but I don't know how well the feedback would apply to everybody. I'm currently on day 11 of a 30 day as part of pct. The issue is I work 4 very hard hours in a warehouse every night which is basically hardcore cardio. I can tell that I've lost some fat and I'm definitely fuller in my upper body. The pumps are there during my normal workouts and during work. Theyre not as painful as injectable is reported to be so that helps. I can keep you guys updated if you'd like but like I said, my work load isnt normal so my results may be skewed. But so far I can tell something is definitely going on. Oh and my hair is growing like a weed. (I've never had balding issues)
 
SJA said:
I think that price has kept people from buying this.
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I know it has for me...I'm about to run an injectable cycle instead within the next few months..still deciding though.

From all that I've READ, OT-1 is definatley result producing, but compared to the inj. IGF-1, it doesn't compare. This coming from guys that have done both inj. and oral. Why pay more for less results? I can see if unwanted pinning was an issue though...
 
Lucky boy,

What did you mean when you said your hair is growing like a weed? is it just growing at a faster rate or is it alot thicker than usual?
 
IBE said:
I am not sure where you are heiring this from but it does compare if not better
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Really? Do you have any links from users' reports? I'd like to read them.

All that I've seen at this forum and others (I can't however list those sites), people have said that they had better results from the inj. And some have said that they haven't exp. much at all. I have to admit though, I as soon as I saw those logs, I didn't care too much for it since everybodsy was saying the inj. was much better. So maybe I missed some NEWER logs? Please explain, thx.
 
IBE said:
the only person I know of on this board that said the inject was better was riskbar they have lots of logs on most of the other boards give me a few min. to gether them up and I will post them here.
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okay, thx for the help...
 
It's growing back thicker and really quick. I just got a hair cut about 2 1/2 weeks ago and I could already use another one.
 
IBE-
can you get as much absorbed via this new oral delivery system as an inject? That was my question. I did 30 days of OT, and my personal guess was that it simply takes more than was originally thought to make it happen (given limited oral efficacy compared to ~100% inj). Very unscientific on my part, of course. I felt good on it, but got nothing noticable that is intrinsic to IGF, so I can't really say. This is not to criticize, because my overall cycle was good. I was on other anabolics, though, so I am a bad case study. The lack of any sides or pronounced results just made me wonder. The other thing I worried about was not having refrigerated it right away. Could that have ruined it?

I will look closely for reports, because I would love to do another cycle of this. I plan to do a IGF cycle in about 4 weeks, and was planning to run inj to compare (never done that either prior). I'm intrigued by the oral delivery, and would MUCH RATHER go that route, to be sure. If I can get some clarity on it, I'll do it. I think some people are still worried that since it has never been orally bioavailable before, it just can't really be done. And that's what many of the big science guys on a number of boards still maintain.
 
IBE said:
We can tell you that we are awaiting a diseased study outcome involving “Streptocytosin (STZ)� induced diabetes study that yields NO “Back Ground Noise� that will determine 3 new alternative compositions.
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IBE, excuse my ignorance, but does this mean you're testing people that are pre-disposed to diabetes? And then seeing wether or not the OT-1 will induce diabetes in them? Probably not...lol...but I would like to see something like this done as diabetes also runs in the family and I'm being very cautious with IGF-1 useage for this very reason...
 
thanks for your input, IBE, as always. Now what's new with the GHRP oral? Any updates? And do you think that oral delivery will someday replace inj. totally?
 
But IBE i dont understand why dont you lab test your gear and then you have proof in black and white and you can end all speculations it would only be good for your business
 
IBE, is there going to be a price reduction in the near future? I'd honestly give it a go, but can only afford one kit if that. That's what is keeping me away and making me go with the injectable version...
 
I'm now on day 14 and it's really kicked in these past few days. I've been feeling slightly hypo during the day if I don't eat crazy amounts of carbs but I'm still losing fat by the day. I'm not sure if I've put on any size at all but I'm starting to see a lot of seperation between my bicep, tricep and delts on each arm. Which may just be a result of losing some bf. Either way, I definitely look a lot better than I did 2 weeks ago ON CYCLE. The next 16 days I am very much looking foward to. Sorry I can't keep a fully detailed log. But I will keep you guys up to date of things like above and have a final review when the 30 days are up.
 
IBE said:
the price thing...LOL..that is our biggest worries also. we are working on trying to get the price down now but is very hard at the moment
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Hey, I know. Hows about doing a 50% discount to AM members? ;) If not, then hows about just me?? :D
 
my question still: How can 40mcg orally delivered be anywhere near equivalent to 40mcg of IM or sub-Q delivery? I am really interested in the new technology, and if it works it works. Just as transdermal and sublingual delivery methods have proven effective for certain things. However, you need probably 100% more of the product or more, because of the fact that is significantly less bioavailable this way. Does this make sense, or am I way off?
 
Just an update, day 23. Over the past 3+ weeks I've experienced pretty good overall fat loss, mostly from my arms and legs but obviously I wanted more ab specific fat loss. So about 4 days ago I decided to throw in some lipoderm to the mix and all I have to say is holy ****! I look like I did after my last trimax cycle when your muscles refill with glycogen again. The fat seems to just be melting off my stomach now. I'm definitely bigger than I've ever been but also at me leanest. My strength is up from the cycle I'm pct-ing for and I'm definitely bigger/more defined than I was on cycle. Simply put, this stuff is ridiculous! Also it seems to have helped to combat the nasty acne I usually get post cycle with the hormonal fluctuations, which helps in the female department obviously. So overall so far I'd have to give this a HUGE two thumbs up! I can't wait to see what the next 7 days bring. And again, my schedule with work and the gym is very much out of the ordinary so no doubt other's results will vary. As for me though I love it. Now for that price reduction we're all waiting for......
 
Granted it's everybody's right to say that there's no science backing up these claims or they don't see how it could possibly work, they don't buy it etc. How can you ignore all of the logs posted all over the web of this stuff stating the igf effects of being hypo, significant fat burning while putting on muscle? I was skeptical myself, especially with 40mcgs being the starting dose for injections, how could this stuff match up even if it did work without taking 1 1/2 or 2 x's the dose? But the proof is in the pudding as they say, I'm bigger than I've ever been while losing a lot of fat. If I don't eat enough carbs, I get hypo. Does it suck that IBE can't tell us more about this stuff? Yes! But at the same time, how many people would buy a product off of the manufacturer's hype instead of real world feedback?
 
LuckyBoy said:
Granted it's everybody's right to say that there's no science backing up these claims or they don't see how it could possibly work, they don't buy it etc. How can you ignore all of the logs posted all over the web of this stuff stating the igf effects of being hypo, significant fat burning while putting on muscle? I was skeptical myself, especially with 40mcgs being the starting dose for injections, how could this stuff match up even if it did work without taking 1 1/2 or 2 x's the dose? But the proof is in the pudding as they say, I'm bigger than I've ever been while losing a lot of fat. If I don't eat enough carbs, I get hypo. Does it suck that IBE can't tell us more about this stuff? Yes! But at the same time, how many people would buy a product off of the manufacturer's hype instead of real world feedback?
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A lot of people swore that MDien was the **** too. Turns out it was just ****.

Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe the people trying it are working harder in the gym and watching their food intake better because they want it to work. The placebo effect is very real and very powerful.

The whole reason we have clinical studies, double blind trials, and publication of the pharmacokinetics of medicines is because "real world feedback," as you put it, is not, in and of itself, a reliable way to judge the efficacy of a product.

And again, I never said it didn't work. But $130 a pop is a big leap of faith.

/karp
 
and 130$ worth only lasts 15 days. Its just too pricey imo. It would make a nice addition to pct. I would spend 130 for 2 kits, but not for one. I think if they would sell it for half the price, they would get 4x the business.
 
I am almost done my 4 weeks of using and I see every effect that I saw on the injectable. Slight muscle gain (5-6lbs), body composition change, leaning out, and in the beginning I became tired after the dose.

Take it for whats it worth but I believe it works and I was one of the guys in the beginning that publically said I didn't believe a word of what they said.

And IBE knew if it didn't work, I would say so....
 
Hey Bobo, I've never aimed a post at you or whatnot but being a lurker here for sometime, you seem like a VERY standup and knowlegeable guy and if you say it works, that's big. Your word carries alot of weight and deservedly so. Now bully them into lowering the price!!!
 
I agree, Bobo, it does say a lot when you say that it works. I couldn't find anything from you about doubting that it works, though.

I guess my problem is that when I see a lot of BS coming from someone, I have a hard time buying what they are selling. And I see a lot of BS coming from IBE, both about the science and the legal aspects.

Maybe it does work. If it does, great. I'll try some sometime. However, for now, I'm skeptical, as are a lot of people.

/karp
 
jrkarp said:
I agree, Bobo, it does say a lot when you say that it works. I couldn't find anything from you about doubting that it works, though.

I guess my problem is that when I see a lot of BS coming from someone, I have a hard time buying what they are selling. And I see a lot of BS coming from IBE, both about the science and the legal aspects.

Maybe it does work. If it does, great. I'll try some sometime. However, for now, I'm skeptical, as are a lot of people.

/karp
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skepticism is good, especially in the supp. industry. It's healthy, and to be expected. I'm sure upstanding co's such as Avant, DS, IBE and others do not take offense, because they know better than anyone the nature of the industry, and the fact that there is no shortage of crap which is hawked to the unsuspecting or wishful-thinking consumer. And let's face it, most of us have been burned more than a couple times with useless crap.

The truth is, that in time, things play out. What does that mean? Means that if someone is putting out crap, that that is (sooner or later) gonna be their rep. And conversely, when people put out effective supps, they establish strong customer loyalty and support.

I for one am glad to hear reports of Oratropin's success. And when Bobo says he has found it effectve, that carries tremendous weight. I did not respond to it in any pronounced way, but I have no doubt that it is working for others. Look around, and I think it is safe to say that there are as many people (percentage-wise) who report little or no effectiveness from inject IGF-1 as there are for Oratropin.

I think the main thing still in question is the science of it, and two questions still come to mind for me. I am hoping to find answers to both, as I am hoping to use Oratropin again in the future:

1) How is it possible to orally administer effectivey this delicate substance when it has never been possible before (and I am aware of the patent issue, so I don't expect this answer to be available immediately)

2) If 40mcg is a low (for some), but an effective IM or sub-Q dose (very high bioavailability), how could 40mcg possibly be enough orally administered, based on the relative inefficiency of oral absorbtion?

That said, I am a continuing IBE consumer. Just received an order today, as a matter of fact...
 
jrkarp said:
I agree, Bobo, it does say a lot when you say that it works. I couldn't find anything from you about doubting that it works, though.

I guess my problem is that when I see a lot of BS coming from someone, I have a hard time buying what they are selling. And I see a lot of BS coming from IBE, both about the science and the legal aspects.

Maybe it does work. If it does, great. I'll try some sometime. However, for now, I'm skeptical, as are a lot of people.

/karp
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In the Avant thread this is what I said:


"You can discuss the science or lack of it all you like, I've already said I don't see any science supporting this at all. Is that fuckin good enough for you?"

This was in response to someone stating that IBE was scamming people and logs over here were biased because they were a sponsor.

When the first threads started coming on here I stated that I thought it was crap as well because my opinion was based on that the drug has to pass the GI tract. Most of threads were deleted before IBE became a sponsor as they became more of an advertisement than information on the product.

What you call bullshit could be someone protecting their delivery system. That type of protection is increasing ever since the ban and in companies that never did it before.

If you want to questions supplement companies about their claims I can give you about 20 of them that do a much worse job. I hope you show the same vigor woth them as you do IBE.

As far as questionong them its been done to death on this board and on Avant. They have offerend people kits to try and they were refused. They offered to put up their product for criticism. If it didn't work, the logs would show it. I however did try it and it worked as advertised. Take that for what its worht but when something DOES work as advertised then I have a problem when someone states its "bullshit". If it didn't work, I would say so. I have zero to gain and everything to lose from pushing a product that doesn't work. (i'm not really pushing it either)

Be skeptical all you want but please don't say something is bullshit just because its not explained thoroughly enough for you. If you don't like the explanation, you can state that all you want and let them know but please refrain from saying its "bullshit".

Threads end up closed and people get pissed off and I don't want that kind of drama here. I see enough of that crap at other boards.
 
milwood said:
2) If 40mcg is a low (for some), but an effective IM or sub-Q dose (very high bioavailability), how could 40mcg possibly be enough orally administered, based on the relative inefficiency of oral absorbtion?

That said, I am a continuing IBE consumer. Just received an order today, as a matter of fact...
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Oral inefficiency (as it peratins to drugs) occurs when it actually has to pass the GI tract. They have already stated that the method of absortion doesn't even resch the stomach. It resembles more a sublingual delivery than oral delivery.

And that would also answer your first question as amino acids in general are destroyed by the gut.
 
IBE said:
Thanks Bobo for the honest answer. but for everyone here we told Bobo in private in how it really works but we can't not tell the whole world yet so take it for what it's worth. (EVERYONE WILL SEE THE SCIENCE THIS YEAR JUST BE PATIENCE)
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And I still don't understand any of it. Its nothing that I have ever read about or even thought about (and still haven't)
 
Bobo said:
In the Avant thread this is what I said:


"You can discuss the science or lack of it all you like, I've already said I don't see any science supporting this at all. Is that fuckin good enough for you?"

This was in response to someone stating that IBE was scamming people and logs over here were biased because they were a sponsor.

When the first threads started coming on here I stated that I thought it was crap as well because my opinion was based on that the drug has to pass the GI tract. Most of threads were deleted before IBE became a sponsor as they became more of an advertisement than information on the product.

What you call bullshit could be someone protecting their delivery system. That type of protection is increasing ever since the ban and in companies that never did it before.

If you want to questions supplement companies about their claims I can give you about 20 of them that do a much worse job. I hope you show the same vigor woth them as you do IBE.

As far as questionong them its been done to death on this board and on Avant. They have offerend people kits to try and they were refused. They offered to put up their product for criticism. If it didn't work, the logs would show it. I however did try it and it worked as advertised. Take that for what its worht but when something DOES work as advertised then I have a problem when someone states its "bullshit". If it didn't work, I would say so. I have zero to gain and everything to lose from pushing a product that doesn't work. (i'm not really pushing it either)

Be skeptical all you want but please don't say something is bullshit just because its not explained thoroughly enough for you. If you don't like the explanation, you can state that all you want and let them know but please refrain from saying its "bullshit".

Threads end up closed and people get pissed off and I don't want that kind of drama here. I see enough of that crap at other boards.
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Fair enough. I won't call bullshit on the scientific stuff.

However, as a law school graduate (as of the day after tomorrow) with a concentration in intellectual property (patents, copyright, trademark, trade secret) I feel I am qualified to call bullshit on the legal stuff. I apologize if it seems I am pursuing this with such vigor (especially since I love IBE's other products), but it pisses me off when people say bullshit things like "I'd tell you but it would be infringing on a patent." Patents are public records and explaining something that is in an issued patent does not infringe on it.

I'm sure you've also noticed that IBE tends to respond to people questioning him by insulting them and telling them that they don't understand.

I also remember a lot of logs saying how great MDien was until everybody stopped and said "Wait, this stuff actually doesn't work." Placebo effect.

Your point is taken on calling bullshit, and I certainly don't want drama here, so you won't hear any more of it from me. However, many questions have been asked about this subject and the information coming from IBE has been scarce to say the least. He could certainly alleviate this by providing some more REAL information.

As for it working, I'm glad that it seems to. It is certainly more convenient than pinning.

/karp
 
Bobo said:
Oral inefficiency (as it peratins to drugs) occurs when it actually has to pass the GI tract. They have already stated that the method of absortion doesn't even resch the stomach. It resembles more a sublingual delivery than oral delivery.

And that would also answer your first question as amino acids in general are destroyed by the gut.
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that makes a great deal of sense, actually. And now that I think of it, it does seem more like a sublingual application. Still, though, you squirt it on the back of your tongue, swish it around-the gum area, sublingual area, then swallow. Hopefully this means rapid and effective oral absorbtion. Swallowing the balance of the stuff, however, still suggests that some goes down the hatch and isn't orally absorbed. That's my only concern. NOT that it doesn't work. So my own hypothesis is this:

1) OT will prove to be effective, as IBE has suggested.
2) The (oral) dosing for OT will still need to be increased to match the effectiveness of 40mcg of IM or sub-Q.

Again, I am no scientist. I am merely speculating.
 
IBE said:
Bro we don't own the technology so we do not have the right to release anything if it was up to us we would have released everthing along time ago
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I understand that but again patents are public records, so if anything is patented the information contained in the patent is not protected. Copying the invention described in the patent is of course prohibited, but the information itself is available as a matter of public record. There are millions of patents on the PTO website, all containing (as patents are required to do) a description sufficiently detailed enough to enable someone to "practice" the invention.

If the patents are out there are have been approved, then since they are a public record, no infringement is taking place by pointing people to them. That's what I've been trying to say today. You claim that there are patents but you can't tell us what number they are for some reason or another, but the truth is that any patent that has been approved is available as a public record, meaning that the information is already out there. It's just not easy to find, so we were asking for a number to make it easier for us.

We can go round and round but there's little point. You say that you will make the information available, and I will believe you about that. However, it's been a few months that you've been saying that. You have to understand why some people are a bit skeptical, especially somone like me who has spent the last 3 years learning to question everything.


/karp
 
If they don't own the technology then they are going by the request of that owner to not release information and that would include the patent number which would allow you to find that info. It simply isn't in their hands.

You may questions everything but you cna't get upset when someone can't give you the answer. You have to accept that, believe what you want based on the available information, then move on until the situation warrants revisiting.
 
milwood said:
that makes a great deal of sense, actually. And now that I think of it, it does seem more like a sublingual application. Still, though, you squirt it on the back of your tongue, swish it around-the gum area, sublingual area, then swallow. Hopefully this means rapid and effective oral absorbtion. Swallowing the balance of the stuff, however, still suggests that some goes down the hatch and isn't orally absorbed. That's my only concern. NOT that it doesn't work. So my own hypothesis is this:

1) OT will prove to be effective, as IBE has suggested.
2) The (oral) dosing for OT will still need to be increased to match the effectiveness of 40mcg of IM or sub-Q.

Again, I am no scientist. I am merely speculating.
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Well, nobody said you didn't have to take the recommended dose. FOr the most part according the many reports, 30-40mcg has a decent efect on people when injected. I used 40mcg when injecting and the results were about the same.

When I put on the back of my tongue it tends to stick and even when I swallowed it didn't seem to go down the hatch.

So you could easily take more but then price is a big factor and thats a whole other issue.
 
jrkarp said:
I'm sure you've also noticed that IBE tends to respond to people questioning him by insulting them and telling them that they don't understand.



/karp
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I don't think they are trying to insult you at all, merely stating that is damn complicated and from hearing some of the explanation, it is, by a large margin. I never, for any reason, would research this area when it comes to bodybuilding, nutrution, physiology, endocrinology, etc....
 
Hell yeah, I put a lot of weight into what Bobo says too....who wouldn't with the kind of knowledge he has. Thanks for the update bobo. All I can say is, I'm sold thus far....if IBE would lower the price I would definately buy some now. Not trying to be pushy with capitalism or anything,..lol, but I think if IBE would offer this cheaper (like 1/2 the price) they'd get more sales...although I'm not them, and I don't know how they're doing biz wise....I'd just like to be able to try this out soon. Just can't afford it....but I guess that's life. :sad:
 
It really irks me how much of a big deal guys are making about the price here.

Its roughly the same as a $200 1MG bottle of injectable, assuming that you can get 23 days out of a 1mg bottle (which isn't easy.) the price is the same. When the price gets dropped to $100 I think it will be right where it needs to be, but all of you asking IBE to cut the price in half are being ridiculously unrealistic and obviously haven't even done the math to compare it to an injectable pricewise.

I'm not trying to antagonize anyone in particular here but this really needed to be said.
 
IBE said:
so please just because you can't understand it then don't say it can't work.
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That is insulting.

Not only that, it's a counterattack designed to take attention off of him and discredit me to put me on the defensive.

/karp
 
Bobo said:
If they don't own the technology then they are going by the request of that owner to not release information and that would include the patent number which would allow you to find that info. It simply isn't in their hands.

You may questions everything but you cna't get upset when someone can't give you the answer. You have to accept that, believe what you want based on the available information, then move on until the situation warrants revisiting.
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I understand. A confidentiality or nondisclosure agrreement (NDA) right?

Even though they just publicly admitted that they told you how it works?

I'm done here. A lot of this just doesn't add up, but I'm getting nowhere; I get circular answers from them and then you step in and answer things for them.

/karp
 
mmorpheuss said:
It really irks me how much of a big deal guys are making about the price here.

Its roughly the same as a $200 1MG bottle of injectable, assuming that you can get 23 days out of a 1mg bottle (which isn't easy.) the price is the same. When the price gets dropped to $100 I think it will be right where it needs to be, but all of you asking IBE to cut the price in half are being ridiculously unrealistic and obviously haven't even done the math to compare it to an injectable pricewise.

I'm not trying to antagonize anyone in particular here but this really needed to be said.
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Well, I know I don't pay that much for injectable IGF-1. I haven't used before, but when/if I do I won't be paying that much. How do you know what other people pay? Not everybody buys from MR. There are HUNDREDS of other places to get IGF-1. And 200 bucks for injectable is still pretty steep compared to the numerous other research carriers.****DO NOT ASK WHERE I BUY FROM EITHER PEOPLE!!!**** So obviously you haven't done the math...lol.

Although like I said earlier, the pricing issue isn't any of our business....if you don't like the price, then just don't buy it. I was just saying earlier that I'd def. be game if the price were to drop.
 
jrkarp said:
That is insulting.

Not only that, it's a counterattack designed to take attention off of him and discredit me to put me on the defensive.

/karp
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No its not, its just you arguing for the sake of arguing. You can't get the answers YOU want so it irks you and you have to take it out on them.

What is insulting is you calling a company bullshit because they won't and/or can't disclose the information you want.

You insinuate they are lying on purpose and trying to deceive everyone because YOU are skeptical.

That is insulting. I already said I don't want this type of drama here so take is somewhere else. I'm sick of everyone acting like little bitches just because they don't get the answers they want. Here is a solution, DON"T BUY IT!
 
Its pretty simply, if you don't believe it, don't buy it.

I have tried it, it worked as advertised and I don't know how it works. He gave me an explanations in which I couldn't understand because it had to do with immunology.

If that isn't good for you, tough. I don't need to hear you criticize how a company defneds their product, or how they "argue", or how you are a law student and you just can't get over the fact that IBE doens't know everything there is to know about patents. THat is YOUR problem. YOu can solve that buy not buying it.

There is a reason people hire lawyers, CPA's, R&D companies and consultants. I already see people in this thread who completely bashed IBE on other boards yet now that reuslst are coming in they are changing their tune. Seems funny how many people jumped on the bashing bandwagon since some other companies bashed them but sinec the product is working they are jumping off real fast. Have you seem some of the recent threads of those same companies? And you trust THEIR opinion?

Maybe people should keep their mouths shut before they stick their foot in it again.
 
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