What Type Of PCT For a Cardarine/Andarine/Ostarine 8 Week Stack?

[wake_me]

Looking for advice on this. I've never stacked SARMS before. Also wondering if I should keep an AI handy.

thanks

 

[CatSnake]

Looking for advice on this. I've never stacked SARMS before. Also wondering if I should keep an AI handy.

thanks

well, SARMs can't aromatize, so E2 shouldn't be a problem.

but, they are suppressive, so you need to do a real PCT...

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/288103-info-serms.html

 

[warbird01]

People usually run this:

Nolva or Clomid
Reduce XT (cortisol control)
Test booster (for libido)

 

[Ricky10]

well, SARMs can't aromatize, so E2 shouldn't be a problem.

but, they are suppressive, so you need to do a real PCT...

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/288103-info-serms.html

Ostarine can cause estrogen issues due to lowering of SHBG. This causes an increase in free test and free estrogen. People usually use some type of AI along with Osta for this reason.

 

[wake_me]

Ostarine can cause estrogen issues due to lowering of SHBG. This causes an increase in free test and free estrogen. People usually use some type of AI along with Osta for this reason.

I ordered some Exemestane - 30ml @ 15mgs/ml, just to be safe. What would you recommend for usage? EOD or every 3? thanks

Going to use Nolva/Clomid for PCT.

 

[CatSnake]

Ostarine can cause estrogen issues due to lowering of SHBG. This causes an increase in free test and free estrogen. People usually use some type of AI along with Osta for this reason.

do you have any data I can read through on this?

I've never seen a SARM increase free testosterone....

EDIT:

In this LGD study, free testosterone dropped significantly:

http://www.ergo-log.com/lgd4033.html

And in this Ostarine study, SHBG did go down, but so did total E2:

http://www.ergo-log.com/enobosarmtrial.html

 

[Ricky10]

I read through that data on Ostarine quickly, not sure if that was taken pre and post Ostarine...or pre and during Ostarine?

As for where I got the info that I stated on Ostarine: It is from Seth Williams. He has many videos on YouTube under NewRoids. Very knowledgeable dude and also entertaining!

 

[Ricky10]

I ordered some Exemestane - 30ml @ 15mgs/ml, just to be safe. What would you recommend for usage? EOD or every 3? thanks

Going to use Nolva/Clomid for PCT.

Honestly I am not an exemestane expert at all, but you certainly would not have to overdue it. Just some Inhibit-E from SNS should do the trick to be honest. Nolvadex and or Clomid for PCT sounds like a winning plan for sure.

 

[AntM1564]

People usually run this:

Nolva or Clomid
Reduce XT (cortisol control)
Test booster (for libido)

Yep, this is my protocol.

I would run a SERM, plus AlphaMax XT for libido, increased performance (ferulic acid) and cortisol control. What's nice about AlphaMax XT is you get all of that in a single product. I may also run something like X-Gels during PCT since it is a great natural product for strength.

 

[CatSnake]

I read though that data on Ostarine quickly, not sure if that was taken pre and post Ostarine...or pre and during Ostarine?

As for where I got the info that I stated on Ostarine: It is from Seth Williams. He has many videos on YouTube under NewRoids. Very knowledgeable dude and also entertaining!

pre and post.

pretty significant change...

 

[Ricky10]

pre and post.

pretty significant change...

Yeah. Well that makes sense then. Ostarine lowers SHBG = more free test and estrogen being utilized (used up) at the receptors. When you are done with Ostarine, SHBG remains low, as well as free test and estrogen as they are temporarily (hopefully) depleted.
This release of free estrogen during Ostarine cycles is what is believed to be the cause of some people experiencing gyno flare ups.

 

[warbird01]

I ordered some Exemestane - 30ml @ 15mgs/ml, just to be safe. What would you recommend for usage? EOD or every 3? thanks

Going to use Nolva/Clomid for PCT.

IMO Exemestane is kind of overkill for ostarine. I wouldn't start using it until you start seeing extrogen sides. Then I would probably dose it 7.5mg EOD.

Or just use an OTC AI like arimistane or Inhibit E

 

[wake_me]

IMO Exemestane is kind of overkill for ostarine. I wouldn't start using it until you start seeing extrogen sides. Then I would probably dose it 7.5mg EOD.

Or just use an OTC AI like arimistane or Inhibit E

I thought AIs are more for preventive measures, instead of reactive.

 

[CatSnake]

IMO,

running an AI here could cause a lot of low E2 issues....

we know that SARMs lower total E2 levels, but some guys might get gyno (based off the decreased SHBG theory).

^so if that's right, we're gonna be adding in an AI when total E2 is already low in hopes of preventing gyno from the wrong mechanism....


if gyno is an issue with a SARM, then raloxifene or a topical DHT cream would be a better concern, as it would simply block the ER and address the gyno issue directly instead of crushing E2.

 

[wake_me]

IMO,

running an AI here could cause a lot of low E2 issues....

we know that SARMs lower total E2 levels, but some guys might get gyno (based off the decreased SHBG theory).

^so if that's right, we're gonna be adding in an AI when total E2 is already low in hopes of preventing gyno from the wrong mechanism....


if gyno is an issue with a SARM, then raloxifene or a topical DHT cream would be a better concern, as it would simply block the ER and address the gyno issue directly instead of crushing E2.

OK thanks for the advice. I had it ordered, but it's still processing so going to see if I can cancel the order. If not, hold on to it for the future.

 

[CatSnake]

OK thanks for the advice. I had it ordered, but it's still processing so going to see if I can cancel the order. If not, hold on to it for the future.

yeah, it's good stuff for high E2. just make sure you take it in the evening and with a meal.

 

[CatSnake]

Yeah. Well that makes sense then. Ostarine lowers SHBG = more free test and estrogen being utilized (used up) at the receptors. When you are done with Ostarine, SHBG remains low, as well as free test and estrogen as they are temporarily (hopefully) depleted.
This release of free estrogen during Ostarine cycles is what is believed to be the cause of some people experiencing gyno flare ups.

I have to point out that taking an AI is going to exacerbate the low SHBG issue, since AI's pretty much universally lower this:

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2003-031279

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/586804_3

 

[Ricky10]

I have to point out that taking an AI is going to exacerbate the low SHBG issue, since AI's pretty much universally lower this:

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2003-031279

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/586804_3

Everyone reacts to SARMs differently and some people are just Gyno prone period and can get a flare up from the simplest of test boosters. Taking an OTC AI with Ostarine is very common. The late Osta Shred already had Arimistane as part of the formula for that matter. Of course the legitimacy of Arimistane acting as an AI has been brought into question but that is another whole discussion. It was included in Osta Shred with that intent though...haha!

 

[wake_me]

So is the consensus to not worry about something strong as an AI and only if I have symptoms? I've never had issues with gyno before. I did a PH cycle 4 years ago and some SARMS a year and half or so ago too. I think one time I used an OTC AI and the other time I might have used something stronger.

EDIT: looking at my post history, it looks like I used Exemestane as part of my PCT before and not during cycle. So seems like I'm not prone to gyno.

 

[Ricky10]

Yeah, I believe the consensus is to use something milder yet effective like 2 caps day SNS Inhibit-E or maybe 1 cap/day Letrone. Having something stronger on hand is always recommend but I highly doubt you will need it.

 

[wake_me]

Yeah, I believe the consensus is to use something milder yet effective like 2 caps day SNS Inhibit-E or maybe 1 cap/day Letrone. Having something stronger on hand is always recommend but I highly doubt you will need it.

and this would be on cycle or PCT?

 

[Ricky10]

I am running 25 mg of Ostarine right now but I only started it because I strained my bicep a bit and was battling a sore shoulder for the past 3 weeks. Went on it for the ligament/tendon healing effects and I have decided to turn this into an unforseen cut/recomp while I am at it. I just added R-Andro Shred as it acts as an anti estrogen via increased DHT. So that is another option...it's not cheap but it is awesome!

 

[Ricky10]

and this would be on cycle or PCT?

On cycle, but this is just my opinion from my research and personal experience. SARM for PCT.

 

[wake_me]

I am running 25 mg of Ostarine right now but I only started it because I strained my bicep a bit and was battling a sore shoulder for the past 3 weeks. Went on it for the ligament/tendon healing effects and I have decided to turn this into an unforseen cut/recomp while I am at it. I just added R-Andro Shred as it acts as an anti estrogen via increased DHT. So that is another option...it's not cheap but it is awesome!

I found a product that I can buy locally called E-brake. It seems to have similar ingredients to Inhibit-E, which I would have to order from outside my country. Wondering if this is comparable.

---
E-Brake Ingredients
Magnum Nutraceuticals E-Brake Ingredients
E-Brake is transparentally dosed so you know just how much of estrogen fighting action you get in each dose.
Magnum employs a 100% transparent label on their new aromatase inhibitor (AI) supplement that promises to increase libido, muscle mass, recovery, while keeping estrogen levels in check. Let’s see what their packing!

Brassaiopsis Glomerulata (500mg)
Acacetin (100mg)
Hesperidin (100mg)
Pygeum Bark (100mg)
Stinging Nettle Leaf 4:1 Extract (90mg)
Vitamin D3 (400IU)
Piperine Extract (5mg)
---

thanks so much. With this type of thing it seems the more you learn the more you realize how little you know.

 

[Ricky10]

I know that product and have been eying it for quite some time as I love Acacetin. That should be a good choice but Inhibit-E has a lot of positive feedback and is more affordable. On the other hand, it would be nice to hear about your experience with E-brake. Yes, take during cycle..

 

[wake_me]

I know that product and have been eying it for quite some time as I love Acacetin. That should be a good choice but Inhibit-E has a lot of positive feedback and is more affordable. On the other hand, it would be nice to hear about your experience with E-brake. Yes, take during cycle..

I will probably get E-brake. The price difference will be negligible when taking the crap Canadian dollar exchange rate into account. thanks for your help

 

[Ricky10]

Cool, well post your thoughts/results about E-brake...will be interested...

 

[CatSnake]

Everyone reacts to SARMs differently and some people are just Gyno prone period and can get a flare up from the simplest of test boosters. Taking an OTC AI with Ostarine is very common. The late Osta Shred already had Arimistane as part of the formula for that matter. Of course the legitimacy of Arimistane acting as an AI has been brought into question but that is another whole discussion. It was included in Osta Shred with that intent though...haha!

just because it's common doesn't make it a good idea, tho.

if E2 is normal (or low), then taking an AI won't fix the gyno.... dealing with the gyno or taking a prophylactic SERM would be the more reasonable approach. and again, if low SHBG is the cause of the gyno, then lowering SHBG even more is going to cause more issues.

 

[Ricky10]

just because it's common doesn't make it a good idea, tho.

if E2 is normal (or low), then taking an AI won't fix the gyno.... dealing with the gyno or taking a prophylactic SERM would be the more reasonable approach. and again, if low SHBG is the cause of the gyno, then lowering SHBG even more is going to cause more issues.

Yea, but OTC products like Inhibit-E, E brake etc more or less promote estrogen balance to keep it in check during a run of something like Ostarine and does happen to be the standard protocol for Osta. If estrogen sides/gyno does flare up, then stepping it up to a SERM would of course be warranted . Otherwise, save it for PCT when it is more appropriate...