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What PH is out now that is like Dbol?

Nac said:
Well sure, thats part of my point. Whats likely for you is unlikely for me, and vice versa. I didnt take into consideration your specific circumstances, which appear quite unique relative to the general population.
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Yeah but I literally said a few times that I wasn't able to use gear for like another 6 months to a year. Why couldn't it have been left at that? The point is, is that I want a PH to run that will either give me similar effects to Dbol or some really good dry gains. End of story, lol. If there's none available, then I'll just wait or run a SARM which I already have a ****load of, and never tampered with.
 
Btw, as for the legal vs moral conversation... if a guy can legally obtain hormones to help them become a woman because they feel like one deep down inside. Why can't I feel like Mr. Olympia deep down inside and obtain hormones to get me there? I.E some test and some anadrol lol.
 
Idk about legality in your situation for what I’m suggesting but epistane at doses 40-60 daily would be nice and dry and effective. It’s deff my favorite. Prefer over dbol personally
 
fueledpassion said:
Then you shouldn't take any pro-hormones or pro-steroids which are bringing about the same, albeit less efficient, effect.

But it isn't illegal, simply because it is unconstitutional for a federal law to be applied directly to citizens within a state, unless the state embraces said federal "act" as their own state-sanctioned law. Interstate commerce? Sure, federal law supercedes. Non-commercial application of law within a single state? Nope. Need the state to agree with and enforce that law.

And to make this thread more useful, I'll add that not all states mimic the federal laws word for word.

As an example, some of them classify possession up to a certain amount as a misdemeanor, not a felony.
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Man, you are making this so complicated! The op and I are simply saying we are allowed to take things that are currently legal. Even if they mimic illegal substances. And we aren't allowed to take things that are illegal.

So please quit trying to spin this thing on its goddamned head! Jesus Christ man! Are you that arrogant that you think we don't understand our situations completely? Unconstitutional? What the **** don't you understand about my posts? I chose a career where I waived all of this, and I don't really care because this is what I want to do. So please quit talking the constitution and legalities to me.
 
Hmmm I’m not sure if epistane is legal or not. I know a few years back it may have been added to the long list of banned prohormones. Even though epistane is technically a steroid. As far as legal methyl 1alpha I think is still legal. But it’s a lot more harsh than epistane or dbol
 
cstallion said:
Man, you are making this so complicated! The op and I are simply saying we are allowed to take things that are currently legal. Even if they mimic illegal substances. And we aren't allowed to take things that are illegal.

So please quit trying to spin this thing on its goddamned head! Jesus Christ man! Are you that arrogant that you think we don't understand our situations completely? Unconstitutional? What the **** don't you understand about my posts? I chose a career where I waived all of this, and I don't really care because this is what I want to do. So please quit talking the constitution and legalities to me.
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Yeah like you, and I are willing to take the risk, but the best choice would be to run PH's because it's less risky, and less questionable than vials of gear, and possibly a stray syringe you forgot in your bag or what have you. **** happens, people forget, people slip up. I'm not going to throw away my life with a dishonorable because I couldn't wait to run gear.
 
Tomcatlegacy said:
Yeah like you, and I are willing to take the risk, but the best choice would be to run PH's because it's less risky, and less questionable than vials of gear, and possibly a stray syringe you forgot in your bag or what have you. **** happens, people forget, people slip up. I'm not going to throw away my life with a dishonorable because I couldn't wait to run gear.
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What branch boss? Former ARNG here.
 
You could always buy epistane and put it a different bottle lol. If the main issue is being caught with the bottle. If they were to see a vitamin bottle for example, would they examine it in detail or test it? Just trying to gauge what I can recommend here
 
bigdavid said:
Hmmm I’m not sure if epistane is legal or not. I know a few years back it may have been added to the long list of banned prohormones. Even though epistane is technically a steroid. As far as legal methyl 1alpha I think is still legal. But it’s a lot more harsh than epistane or dbol
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Doesn't matter. I can throw it in a Tylenol bottle, no one is the wiser. Or I can just say I bought it at the supplement shop down the street. They won't question it.
 
You guys will have to stick with andros/dhea compounds, strictly speaking. But even now it looks like DEA and FDA are gunning to add 4-dhea to the banned list.
 
Nac said:
You guys will have to stick with andros/dhea compounds, strictly speaking. But even now it looks like DEA and FDA are gunning to add 4-dhea to the banned list.
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Well, with me specifically. I can have a bottle of rpn havoc chilling in plain sight and no one would blink twice at it. No one really cares about PH's in the military. They're after the injectables. I'm pretty sure if a cop saw me with a bottle of PH's they wouldn't think twice about it either.
 
Tomcatlegacy said:
Well, with me specifically. I can have a bottle of rpn havoc chilling in plain sight and no one would blink twice at it. No one really cares about PH's in the military. They're after the injectables. I'm pretty sure if a cop saw me with a bottle of PH's they wouldn't think twice about it either.
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Some places (UGL) do capped dbol, chuck them in another container? Lol I cant even remember if we've discussed this or not :/
 
Does anyone know if you were to order epistane from Europe to US does customs examine pill bottles in details? I know they would with obvious steroids...
 
Nac said:
Some places (UGL) do capped dbol, chuck them in another container? Lol I cant even remember if we've discussed this or not :/
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Yes, but I would run Dbol with an injectable test. I would never run it alone or with an oral test base. You guys can have your opinions on that but I'm not changing my mind. Injectable test with Dbol for me.
 
bigdavid said:
Hmmm I’m not sure if epistane is legal or not. I know a few years back it may have been added to the long list of banned prohormones. Even though epistane is technically a steroid. As far as legal methyl 1alpha I think is still legal. But it’s a lot more harsh than epistane or dbol
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it is not legal. A) its not even a ph, its an active steroid. and B) it was explicitly called out in the last ban wave.
 
bigdavid said:
Does anyone know if you were to order epistane from Europe to US does customs examine pill bottles in details? I know they would with obvious steroids...
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Plenty of people order overseas without complications. Never had an issue using predator, nor have I seen anyone else have an issue.
 
bigdavid said:
Does anyone know if you were to order epistane from Europe to US does customs examine pill bottles in details? I know they would with obvious steroids...
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Many supps store in the UK stocking Epistane and you can buy it from Germany and Poland but I think you get more bang for a buck from the UK.
I live in Sweden and we have very strict laws when it comes to steroids.
I have a friend who did order Epistane from the US a couple of years ago, the customs seized it but they didn't treated Epistane as an Anabolic steroid they treated Epi as a medical drug so nothing happened.
I have no idea who the US customs work.
 
Tomcatlegacy said:
Doesn't matter. I can throw it in a Tylenol bottle, no one is the wiser. Or I can just say I bought it at the supplement shop down the street. They won't question it.
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Same situation with DBol... same felony too!
Tomcatlegacy said:
Well, with me specifically. I can have a bottle of rpn havoc chilling in plain sight and no one would blink twice at it. No one really cares about PH's in the military. They're after the injectables. I'm pretty sure if a cop saw me with a bottle of PH's they wouldn't think twice about it either.
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All anyone has to do it mention that you are using EPISTANE which is now an illegal anaboic steroid and you will feel the full weight of the law. Also Epistane is NOT A PH!!!! It is a designer steroid. There is no conversion needed it is an active steroid, same with DMZ, SD, Halodrol, or any of the other strong supps you are looking at. If you are truly worried about your situation in the military then you should stick to the andros and other things like that.

Anything that you HAVE to shop for in another country due to the bans can definitely get you in trouble with the military and set you up with a felony possession charge in the states. I am not saying this is going to happen but their is no legal difference between banned designer steroids, and DBol, testosterone, tren, or any other steroid.

You are definitely less likely to get nailed having a bottle of epistane lying around but then again I am pretty sure you wouldn't leave DBol in a bottle labeled DBol reither so the tylenol bottle situation is pretty much the same.
 
“Everything was moving along smoothly until Betty stubbed her toe and really needed some Tylenol. Her voice deepened two octaves that day...”
 
bigdavid said:
“Everything was moving along smoothly until Betty stunned her toe and really needed some Tylenol. Her voice deepened two octaves that day...”
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She also started achieving orgasms much more quickly due to her enlarged clit!!!! Unfortunately her beard slows down the opportunity to get laid.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Same situation with DBol... same felony too!


All anyone has to do it mention that you are using EPISTANE which is now an illegal anaboic steroid and you will feel the full weight of the law. Also Epistane is NOT A PH!!!! It is a designer steroid. There is no conversion needed it is an active steroid, same with DMZ, SD, Halodrol, or any of the other strong supps you are looking at. If you are truly worried about your situation in the military then you should stick to the andros and other things like that.

Anything that you HAVE to shop for in another country due to the bans can definitely get you in trouble with the military and set you up with a felony possession charge in the states. I am not saying this is going to happen but their is no legal difference between banned designer steroids, and DBol, testosterone, tren, or any other steroid.

You are definitely less likely to get nailed having a bottle of epistane lying around but then again I am pretty sure you wouldn't leave DBol in a bottle labeled DBol reither so the tylenol bottle situation is pretty much the same.
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Felony possession charge? Are you sure about that
 
ZachH said:
Felony possession charge? Are you sure about that
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My brother is in law enforcement, pretty high up the chain too. And I can confirm from him and from my research it is indeed a felony charge. They schedule steroids pretty high in the US.
 
cstallion said:
Nah, I'm sure there's plenty of freaks out there that would do a chick with a beard!
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Well if you look close enough most ladies today do have peach fuzz beards at the least. I have many lady friends that do laser hair removal on the face lol
 
ZachH said:
Felony possession charge? Are you sure about that
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From what I read when the bans came out, they are now classified as steroids, and have the same punishment as possessing Dbol, Testosterone or any other steroid without a prescription. Steroids are classified as Schedule III drugs.

Of course the way the courts work it would more likely be plead down to a misdemeanor for your first offence and more than likely giving probation. May even be able to get deferred adjudication with a decent attorney.
 
MrKleen73 said:
From what I read when the bans came out, they are now classified as steroids, and have the same punishment as possessing Dbol, Testosterone or any other steroid without a prescription. Steroids are classified as Schedule III drugs.

Of course the way the courts work it would more likely be plead down to a misdemeanor for your first offence and more than likely giving probation. May even be able to get deferred adjudication with a decent attorney.
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And that leniency would only be possible if you didn’t have more than what they would consider “personal use”. So if you have say 3 bottles, they may say you had intent to deal (when you didn’t, you just didn’t use it yet) and then bam felony and jail time.
 
bigdavid said:
And that leniency would only be possible if you didn’t have more than what they would consider “personal use”. So if you have say 3 bottles, they may say you had intent to deal (when you didn’t, you just didn’t use it yet) and then bam felony and jail time.
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Yes, or even just get a judge who has a hard on for steroid users even with only one bottle.
 
MrKleen73 said:
2kvette You definitely should be proud of your education and being considered an expert in this area. I just I wish you would have spent those words educating me on WHY I was wrong instead of telling me why you are sure that I am wrong... I would prefer to learn than just be told I am wrong.

I am going to take a few guesses and explain my thoughts on some of the things you mentioned I had wrong. Maybe you can tell me a little more as to why I would be wrong on them so I can learn from this.

1. DHT has a very high binding affinity to the AR especially in breast tissue it is up to 3 times more likely to bind to the AR than estrogen. When in higher amounts it will typically bind to the breast tissue, take up the space that estrogen would, causing less estrogen binding so less estrogenic activity at the breast tissue level. Is this not correct? It is why I said that DHT can help avoid gyno from trest. Yes, I also understand that a lot of the gyno from 19-nors is prolactin related as well, and I did not address that in my post but probably should have. Depending on dose I would recommend a supplement or compound that reduced prolactin as well to avoid gyno. At least have something on hand anyway...

From reading a little on intrinsic activity it is how effectively the Receptors can produce a response to the agonist, as opposed to affinity which is the likelihood of the agonist binding to the Receptor. I was only speaking to the affinity from this explanation.

Do you mind telling me the difference between binding affinity and intrinsic activity in your own words, and what that has to do with how DHT taking up a space on the breast tissue AR keeping estrogen from binding to it and expressing itself. Reason being I am only considering DHT as an estrogen blocker in this scenario, if it binds then estrogen can not, therefore the estrogen can not act on it. This is what I have learned inmy research and stiudies anyway, is this not correct?

Anyway, not trying to be a D1ck back, I would just rather be corrected than simply told I am wrong. Nothing can be corrected without learning why I was wrong. Help a brother out if you don't mind. I definitely don't have your education but love to learn.
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I really didn't mean for it to be like I am saying hey look at me I'm showing off b/c im a super nerd. I just meant for it to show that I really really really know what I'm talking about. so lets delve into this, b/c there is alot going on here, and honestly the answer is so long I didnt want to type it all out. Which is why I just said your wrong. LOL

1) Binding affinity just means how likely/easy it is for a ligand to interact w/ a receptor. Intrinsic activity means how strong of a response a ligand produces as a fraction or percentage of the endogenous ligand. DHT's breast growth retarding effects come from its androgenic activity, not its binding affinity for the receptor. For example, DHT has higher affinity than testosterone for the AR, but it has little anabolic affect. Just because DHT binds to the receptor with higher affinity does not mean it produces a stronger effect at all.

Lets delve deeper into pharmacology shall we?

Anabolic- just means tissue growth, muscle, bone, organ, connective tissue. Growth of any of these is an anabolic effect
Androgenic- means specifically expression of male sexual characteristics. As in retarding breast tissue growth, increasing body hair, facial hair, thickening of orbital sockets and brow bone, enlargment of the prostate and seminal vessicles. These affects are meant for development and maintenance of sexual phenotypes for males.

Anabolic/Androgenic

Testoserone 100/100
DHT 10/100

DHT has 10 times the affinity for the AR than testosterone. So if it takes 10mg of test to maintain a normal male phenotype, it only takes 1mg of DHT to maintain a full male phenotype. J

Now, estrogen and any steroid really will bind to the AR, but is has ****ty affinity and no intrinsic activity. Basically this doesnt really happen at all.
So in order to overcome the effects of estrogen, you dont even have to block the receptor. Just express enough androgenic activity to increase male sexual gene expression in the tissue to overcome the estrogen gene expression. So basically you just don't notice the female characteristics because they are so small in comparrison to the male ones.

Now, trestolone compared to DHT

DHT 10/100
trest 630/540

As we can see, trestolone is 5.4 times more power at expressing male sexual characteristics as DHT. Meaning that trestolone takes less than one fifth the dose to equal the androgenic effects of DHT. Even if we assume the trestolone only has half the affinity of DHT for the AR, it still takes 2.5 times less trest to equal the effects of DHT on androgenic gene expression.

We can go further if you want more detail or have more questions.
 
bigdavid said:
Well if you look close enough most ladies today do have peach fuzz beards at the least. I have many lady friends that do laser hair removal on the face lol
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I Have learned....
Women with some facial hair have a stronger sex drive.
Mexican people for example.
My GF is Mexican, been here 10 years. So I've gotten some insight into the Mexican community in my area.
Their sex drive is ****ing off the wall.
I have to hide or dodge my GF some times, my balls are dry and my c.ock is rashed and rubbed raw
. I can't believe I'm the one always making "head ache" excuses.

I did some research and sure enough.
Mexicans have higher serum testosterone. The women also tend to have more mustache hair. My GF has some she removes often.
 
M1A is just as strong a dbol mg for mg. Run 40 mg of M1A for 4 to 6 weeks. You will blow up. 15-20 lbs gainz is very common. It is watery gainz like d bol though.
 
2kvette said:
I really didn't mean for it to be like I am saying hey look at me I'm showing off b/c im a super nerd. I just meant for it to show that I really really really know what I'm talking about. so lets delve into this, b/c there is alot going on here, and honestly the answer is so long I didnt want to type it all out. Which is why I just said your wrong. LOL

1) Binding affinity just means how likely/easy it is for a ligand to interact w/ a receptor. Intrinsic activity means how strong of a response a ligand produces as a fraction or percentage of the endogenous ligand. DHT's breast growth retarding effects come from its androgenic activity, not its binding affinity for the receptor. For example, DHT has higher affinity than testosterone for the AR, but it has little anabolic affect. Just because DHT binds to the receptor with higher affinity does not mean it produces a stronger effect at all.

Lets delve deeper into pharmacology shall we?

Anabolic- just means tissue growth, muscle, bone, organ, connective tissue. Growth of any of these is an anabolic effect
Androgenic- means specifically expression of male sexual characteristics. As in retarding breast tissue growth, increasing body hair, facial hair, thickening of orbital sockets and brow bone, enlargment of the prostate and seminal vessicles. These affects are meant for development and maintenance of sexual phenotypes for males.

Anabolic/Androgenic

Testoserone 100/100
DHT 10/100

DHT has 10 times the affinity for the AR than testosterone. So if it takes 10mg of test to maintain a normal male phenotype, it only takes 1mg of DHT to maintain a full male phenotype. J

Now, estrogen and any steroid really will bind to the AR, but is has ****ty affinity and no intrinsic activity. Basically this doesnt really happen at all.
So in order to overcome the effects of estrogen, you dont even have to block the receptor. Just express enough androgenic activity to increase male sexual gene expression in the tissue to overcome the estrogen gene expression. So basically you just don't notice the female characteristics because they are so small in comparrison to the male ones.

Now, trestolone compared to DHT

DHT 10/100
trest 630/540

As we can see, trestolone is 5.4 times more power at expressing male sexual characteristics as DHT. Meaning that trestolone takes less than one fifth the dose to equal the androgenic effects of DHT. Even if we assume the trestolone only has half the affinity of DHT for the AR, it still takes 2.5 times less trest to equal the effects of DHT on androgenic gene expression.

We can go further if you want more detail or have more questions.
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Now that is what I am talking about! Thanks!

So basically it is not going to be the same methodology as like say an SHBG binding supplement binds to SHBG therefor not allowing it to bind up sexual hormones. Which is basically how it was explained to me originally. That DHT was taking the place of Estrogen in the receptor due to higher affinity and keeping it from expressing female characteristics. Obviously SHBG is a different type of binding than a hormonal receptor but that is how the effect was explained to me. I read it somewhere I think it could have been on the AndrHard write up or something, or in a thread where they were explaining how it was able to help with gyno prevention. However I think they presented it as the sexual hormone receptors as if they were all the same, and that it was the different hormone levels were dictating how the receptors reacted. Not that they had specific receptors. Completely changes the thought process.

Bottom line here I guess is that there are a few pathways to gyno, and or gyno prevention. However regardless of how high your androgenic activity expression is, if enough estrogen gets to the ER it will express itself, and same with prolactin and it's receptors...

I appreciate you taking the time to explain that a little more clearly. I was definitely mistaking correlation for causality. One more piece of the puzzle just got a little clearer.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
I wish rhadam and I would have never started this test base ****.. now its all you hear. also to be clr.. when we first came up with it, it was meant to help users feel better during a heavy steroid cycle.
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Yeah you guys invented the test base for cycles! LOL
 
Mcballz said:
I Have learned....
Women with some facial hair have a stronger sex drive.
Mexican people for example.
My GF is Mexican, been here 10 years. So I've gotten some insight into the Mexican community in my area.
Their sex drive is ****ing off the wall.
I have to hide or dodge my GF some times, my balls are dry and my c.ock is rashed and rubbed raw
. I can't believe I'm the one always making "head ache" excuses.

I did some research and sure enough.
Mexicans have higher serum testosterone. The women also tend to have more mustache hair. My GF has some she removes often.
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Well high testosterone in a woman increases sex drive.
 
Mcballz said:
I Have learned....
Women with some facial hair have a stronger sex drive.
Mexican people for example.
My GF is Mexican, been here 10 years. So I've gotten some insight into the Mexican community in my area.
Their sex drive is ****ing off the wall.
I have to hide or dodge my GF some times, my balls are dry and my c.ock is rashed and rubbed raw
. I can't believe I'm the one always making "head ache" excuses.

I did some research and sure enough.
Mexicans have higher serum testosterone. The women also tend to have more mustache hair. My GF has some she removes often.
Click to expand...
My woman is puerto rican and the only time I have ever kept up with her sex drive is when I've stacked steroids, otherwise I'm also the one to make excuses.

Lol
 
That is definitely closest compound to dianabol that you're going to get from a retail store online. Although its going to be from an English store
 
dvw said:
That is definitely closest compound to dianabol that you're going to get from a retail store online. Although its going to be from an English store
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Dimethandrostenol as well, very close to dianabol. It's got a 2 methyl attachment to prevent aromatization. The rest of the molecule is dianabol.
 
I did dimethandrostenol with lgd and loved it. Actually loss bodyfat and wasn't actually trying to
 
M14add is one of my favorite PHs
On paper it looks a lot like dbol but it feels completely different.
 
bigdavid said:
My brother is in law enforcement, pretty high up the chain too. And I can confirm from him and from my research it is indeed a felony charge. They schedule steroids pretty high in the US.
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Your brother might be trying to scare you from using aas cuz he doesnt want to see you get in trouble. And i dunno where you did your research but you might wanna look again.

All anabolic steroids are schedule III. Possession is a misdemeanor unless its your 3rd time getting caught with it. Then youre subject to the habitual offender statute ("3 strikes law"). THEN it would be a felony.

3 vials wouldnt get you intent to deliver either. 10 probably wouldnt even. With intent or conspiracy charges they have to prove theres an actual intent for you to sell/give those drugs to someone else. They cant just be like "well he had alot of it..."

When you hear intent to deliver with narcotics its usually because of a high quantity of individually preprepared amounts or having a scale and baggies within reach of the drugs. In my state you can possess up to 3 ounces of mary j and its still a misdemeanor. However if you had an ounce in 8 individual pre weighed baggies all together then you might be looking at an intent to deliver charge.

I bet the only way youd actually get smacked with a possession charge for steroids is if you actually had vials of oil on you. Like previously said everything else looks close enough to supplements they probably wouldnt look twice at it. Either way its definitely nowhere near a felony.
 
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