What is the best first cycle?

[vpnvpn]

What is the best first cycle?
I see people recommending different things

 

[wfreiling]

You should give a little background first. Very broad question. What are your goals, age, lifting experience etc…?

 

[Potbelly]

^This

 

[Smont]

The best first cycle does not exist because you have no clue how your going to react to whatever you take. I think the smartest first cycle is going to start with 1 single compound, preferably testosterone at a moderate dose like 300mg and seeing how you respond or react.

If someone is dead set on a oral only cycle I think a low dose of dbol is smarter then any prohormones or sarms simply for the fact it's used as trt in some places and if it worked for all the guys in Arnold's day it works now.

Not recommending a oral only cycle, I just think dbol makes more sense then other orals

 

[Smont]

Also if your not lean enough to see your abs then no cycle is a good cycle unless your goal is specifically to get stronger and fatter.

I've ran cycles when I was too fat and typically I would just get stronger, fatter and worse side effects, mainly acne...

 

[vpnvpn]

Thank you for the responses guys

I am 24 years old, i was thinking to wait until im 25 to run my first cycle
I have been working out in the gym since i was 13 with the longest break being 2 weeks
Im worried about psychiatric side effects because i do have bipolar disorder that im getting medicine for
I was thinking to take it slow with 250mg test e for 10-15weeks with arimidex on hand and nolvadex as pct

 

[Smont]

Thank you for the responses guys

I am 24 years old, i was thinking to wait until im 25 to run my first cycle
I have been working out in the gym since i was 13 with the longest break being 2 weeks
Im worried about psychiatric side effects because i do have bipolar disorder that im getting medicine for
I was thinking to take it slow with 250mg test e for 10-15weeks with arimidex on hand and nolvadex as pct

I think 250 is a little too low, it barely takes you out of the normal range, I know it's all the hype on YouTube but I haven't seen it play out in real life, I really think 300 is the minimum for test only but that's just my opinion.

Mental side effects, I can only speak for myself and I don't get any from any compounds. At least not that I have noticed nor has any of my family or friends noticed. I might have a slightly shorter temper on high doses but minimal if any.

That being said, it definitely can exaggerate your personality and if you have a condition like bipolar I can't say at all how it will effect that. So be cautious.

Just my 2 cent's

 

[vpnvpn]

Would you rather do 500mg test e then?
Take arimidex if i get estrogen side effects and nolvadex as pct 2 weeks after last pin
forexample 40/40/20/20/10?

 

[Smont]

Would you rather do 500mg test e then?
Take arimidex if i get estrogen side effects and nolvadex as pct 2 weeks after last pin
forexample 40/40/20/20/10?

I would start at 300, the first time I used test I believe I ran 300 for the first 6 weeks and then bumped it up. Also at 300mg there's a good possibility you will not need to use the ai, but still have one on hand. I like exemestane better then arimidex but again that's my preference. Wait 2 weeks minimum after last pin, closer to 3 I think is better so everything clears out. Pct looks fine I guess. Some ppl start with 40, some just do 20,20,10,10. I can't tell you how your going to recover. If you get a lot of testicular shrinking on cycle it would be wise to blast some hcg in-between your last test shot and start of pct.

Nothing I'm saying is right or wrong. There's general guidelines for how to do things but your never going to know what's right till you try for yourself. It took me years to figure out what works for me. I'm still just getting the hang of it

 

[Nac]

I agree 100% with the 300mg starting dose. Ideally, you'd get some more bloods done a few weeks in to see where your total Testosterone is at, and potentially adjust your dose based on that. There can be a huge disparity on how guys metabolise/respond to inj testosterone.

 

[Smont]

I agree 100% with the 300mg starting dose. Ideally, you'd get some more bloods done a few weeks in to see where your total Testosterone is at, and potentially adjust your dose based on that. There can be a huge disparity on how guys metabolise/respond to inj testosterone.

The response thing is crazy. I don't notice much of a difference between 300-600mg. If I go to 750 it seems like things kick up a notch but then I start getting the high estrogen sides. I can control e2 with a little exemestane or I can let estrogen stay high and block the nips with nolva or ralox but I have no way of combating the huge acne increase. I been microdosing accutane at 5-10mg eod for a few months now with zero side effects hoping it will give me some benifits for my skin down the road if I decide to try a higher test dose again 750+

 

[Smont]

Ac

The response thing is crazy. I don't notice much of a difference between 300-600mg. If I go to 750 it seems like things kick up a notch but then I start getting the high estrogen sides. I can control e2 with a little exemestane or I can let estrogen stay high and block the nips with nolva or ralox but I have no way of combating the huge acne increase. I been microdosing accutane at 5-10mg eod for a few months now with zero side effects hoping it will give me some benifits for my skin down the road if I decide to try a higher test dose again 750+

Actually I shouldn't say no side effects, my knees been hurting for no reason lately and I've heard accutane can do that to the joints. But then again it could be because I'm getting old and jumping a lot of rope and climbing ladders all day, who knows

 

[Nac]

The response thing is crazy. I don't notice much of a difference between 300-600mg. If I go to 750 it seems like things kick up a notch but then I start getting the high estrogen sides. I can control e2 with a little exemestane or I can let estrogen stay high and block the nips with nolva or ralox but I have no way of combating the huge acne increase. I been microdosing accutane at 5-10mg eod for a few months now with zero side effects hoping it will give me some benifits for my skin down the road if I decide to try a higher test dose again 750+

I'm sure others have commented but recently Victor Black and MPMD have done videos on the range of individual responses to inj test. The study these guys used as a reference was limited, one dose only, but it still demonstrated the wide differences.

The upper "hyper" responder had 3000+ ng/dl from a shot of 500mg Test E, and the lowest "hypo" responder was barely over 1000ng/dl.

This lowest responder at 500mg, was reading what most of the subjects were getting on the 250mg shot.

It pretty clearly shows how some guys, outliers, may need fuk all as a trt dose, whilst others need what you and me would call a cycle/blast dose, to get the same serum levels.

 

[Carnivorecon]

Ac
Actually I shouldn't say no side effects, my knees been hurting for no reason lately and I've heard accutane can do that to the joints. But then again it could be because I'm getting old and jumping a lot of rope and climbing ladders all day, who knows

Best free podcast app for Apple iOS and Android | Let words move you

Millions of podcasts for all topics. Listen to the best free podcast on Android, Apple iOS, Amazon Alexa, Google Home, Carplay, Android Auto, PC. Create...

castbox.fm

Think this might be useful to you, if the links no good its the think big bodybuilding podcast episode 56

 

[Smont]

I'm sure others have commented but recently Victor Black and MPMD have done videos on the range of individual responses to inj test. The study these guys used as a reference was limited, one dose only, but it still demonstrated the wide differences.

The upper "hyper" responder had 3000+ ng/dl from a shot of 500mg Test E, and the lowest "hypo" responder was barely over 1000ng/dl.

This lowest responder at 500mg, was reading what most of the subjects were getting on the 250mg shot.

It pretty clearly shows how some guys, outliers, may need fuk all as a trt dose, whilst others need what you and me would call a cycle/blast dose, to get the same serum levels.

Ya I saw that, what's the deal with Victor black, I don't have social media but my buddy follows him on Instagram or whatever and it seems like he has a crybaby meltdown every time someone disagrees with him or says something he doesn't like lol

 

[Smont]

Best free podcast app for Apple iOS and Android | Let words move you

Millions of podcasts for all topics. Listen to the best free podcast on Android, Apple iOS, Amazon Alexa, Google Home, Carplay, Android Auto, PC. Create...

castbox.fm

Think this might be useful to you, if the links no good its the think big bodybuilding podcast episode 56

I'll check that out when I get a chance but I'm sure I've seen it or heard it already as I listen to that podcast fairly often

 

[BBiceps]

I vote for Test/Mast @350 each, easy feel good cycle without sides that’s easy to recover from.

 

[Smont]

I vote for Test/Mast @350 each, easy feel good cycle without sides that’s easy to recover from.

I don't see anything wrong with that, I just don't think it's necessary to start your first cycle with 700mg of gear, also it would be nice to know what kind of side effects you got from test alone. If a couple weeks in you got acne and insomnia or loose your appetite or whatever it my be you would have no clue what to adjust

 

[Nac]

Ya I saw that, what's the deal with Victor black, I don't have social media but my buddy follows him on Instagram or whatever and it seems like he has a crybaby meltdown every time someone disagrees with him or says something he doesn't like lol

Lol really? I don't have Instagram either...the handful of YouTube videos I've seen of his are decent.

 

[Smont]

Lol really? I don't have Instagram either...the handful of YouTube videos I've seen of his are decent.

Ya, I only see the stuff my buddy sends me but it seems like he's always freaking out and going to war with someone. He can't handle any form of criticism or trolling. At least from what I can see.

 

[Smont]

I've never understood how you can get so worked up over something some faceless person on the internet says. I mean it's one thing to defend a statement or whatever but to freak out over **** is rediculous

 

[Nac]

Ya, I only see the stuff my buddy sends me but it seems like he's always freaking out and going to war with someone. He can't handle any form of criticism or trolling. At least from what I can see.

Hmmm, well that's a bit bullsh1t of him then. It's one of the reasons I can't stand Lyle Macdonald.

 

[Smont]

Hmmm, well that's a bit bullsh1t of him then. It's one of the reasons I can't stand Lyle Macdonald.

Modern society man, everyone has a right to there own opinion but your wrong if your opinion is against my opinion. I get to force my view point down your throat and your wrong if you don't praise my opinion. Fucking crybabies.

I fuckin hate everyone lol

 

[Hyde]

I've never understood how you can get so worked up over something some faceless person on the internet says. I mean it's one thing to defend a statement or whatever but to freak out over **** is rediculous

All the stuff I’ve ever creeped on Instagram, he was totally chill. Like his responses if anything are pretty crusty, seasoned responses. As in, nah, that’s wrong mate. Here’s why. If you can’t understand or disagree with my opinions, that’s on you.

I also vote test e or c only at 300-400mg, adjusting if necessary after a month or so based on bloods.

 

[Smont]

All the stuff I’ve ever creeped on Instagram, he was totally chill. Like his responses if anything are pretty crusty, seasoned responses. As in, nah, that’s wrong mate. Here’s why. If you can’t understand or disagree with my opinions, that’s on you.

I also vote test e or c only at 300-400mg, adjusting if necessary after a month or so based on bloods.

The next time he sends me something il post it up. The couple I seen were basically him letting everything get to him and freaking out. Idk if he takes it back down or whatever. Ive never actually been on Instagram or any of those type platform, haven't even looked at Facebook in about 5 years so I'm just going of clips my buddy shows me from time to time. It's not just him either. It seems like lots of peeps don't take criticism well.

 

[BBiceps]

I don't see anything wrong with that, I just don't think it's necessary to start your first cycle with 700mg of gear, also it would be nice to know what kind of side effects you got from test alone. If a couple weeks in you got acne and insomnia or loose your appetite or whatever it my be you would have no clue what to adjust

I never said I got sides from Test alone, I just stated that Test/Mast will be very low on sides and the reason I added Mast was because you don’t need any AI and get more performance boost than test alone. 700mg total gear can be a lot (like 200 Test/500 Tren) but in this case it’s really not a lot.

IMO Test/Mast is a way better cycle than Test alone, even for a first timer.

 

[Smont]

I never said I got sides from Test alone, I just stated that Test/Mast will be very low on sides and the reason I added Mast was because you don’t need any AI and get more performance boost than test alone. 700mg total gear can be a lot (like 200 Test/500 Tren) but in this case it’s really not a lot.

IMO Test/Mast is a way better cycle than Test alone, even for a first timer.

I didn't say say you said you got sides from test alone. Op said he wants to know a best first cycle for him and mentioned he has bipolar disorder and some other stuff. All I'm saying is there's "nothing wrong" with that cycle. I just don't think it would be a good first cycle for him, the fact he will not know how do differentiate the 2 if a problem arises.

 

[Smont]

I was referring to that cycle being for the guy who started the thread

 

[Whisky]

The OP in this thread is also the guy with psychosis and bipolar.

my view would be the same as in the other thread, your mental health isn’t worth risking brother.

 

[BBiceps]

The OP in this thread is also the guy with psychosis and bipolar.

my view would be the same as in the other thread, your mental health isn’t worth risking brother.

I missed that, no roids is definitely the best answer.

 

[Smont]

The OP in this thread is also the guy with psychosis and bipolar.

my view would be the same as in the other thread, your mental health isn’t worth risking brother.

Exactly, very high risk to reward ratio. No way to tell what will happen

 

[Hyde]

Yeah I forgot about that detail - kind of a hugely important one.

I mean, you can lift weights without steroids your entire life and maintain better physical health and retain mental stability. Seems like a win.

If you cycle you are going to experience hard mental times when PCT comes. Even the most balanced person will have the blues.

 

[DeweyDJP]

Fucking with your hormones. Kind of a huge deal. I think people tend to forget that.

 

[vpnvpn]

Working out is a big part of my life and i want to take the step one day.
I am currently very mentally stable. Is it okay to try it and get off if i get negative symptoms?

What would you guys do if you wer in my position. I do want to take that step one day. Im not in a hurry though

 

[Hyde]

Working out is a big part of my life and i want to take the step one day.
I am currently very mentally stable. Is it okay to try it and get off if i get negative symptoms?

What would you guys do if you wer in my position. I do want to take that step one day. Im not in a hurry though

The problem is when you get off to PCT you are guaranteed mental instability. I mean it’s always an emotional time. Your test levels are in the gutter so you have no energy, libido, drive to take on the day, and your estrogen is comparably high so you are more emotional, sad, sensitive, easier to anger. I mean crying for no reason bad. There are some people that just can’t handle this transition.

There is a lot you can accomplish naturally if you have the genetics and drive. Look up some of the feats & and physiques of George Hackenschmidt, Hermann Goerner, John Davis. Hell even Eric Bugenhagen a few years ago (not now). You aren’t going to look like a bodybuilder, but you can create a lean, powerful able physique people would be happy to have.

 

[Smont]

The problem is when you get off to PCT you are guaranteed mental instability. I mean it’s always an emotional time. Your test levels are in the gutter so you have no energy, libido, drive to take on the day, and your estrogen is comparably high so you are more emotional, sad, sensitive, easier to anger. I mean crying for no reason bad. There are some people that just can’t handle this transition.

There is a lot you can accomplish naturally if you have the genetics and drive. Look up some of the feats & and physiques of George Hackenschmidt, Hermann Goerner, John Davis. Hell even Eric Bugenhagen a few years ago (not now). You aren’t going to look like a bodybuilder, but you can create a lean, powerful able physique people would be happy to have.

Pct is definitely gonna be a bigger issue then the testosterone itself, then on top Of that if recovery does not go well he could spend months with issues

 

[Mathb33]

Your cycle choice is extremely irrelevant. It’s still a misconception that people have that certain type of cycles will blow them up and stuff. A coach, a good diet and learning how to really train to failure and past failure will bring you results. (98% of people think they train hard but they don’t. You think you train hard but you don’t.) once this is mastered, and a coach is added... wether you do 400 test with 400 npp or test deca or test eq or test primo it doesn’t matter a second. The rest does. 1) training 2) diet 3) resting 4) lifestyle and good habits 5) steroids (in Order of importance). Every single experienced user / high level BBer will tell you they started off focusing on gear and did very high doses in their first years with minimal results. Years later they’ll tell you it’s the least of their concern and they’re using half or less of what they used to. All this basically to tell you if this is your first cycle and your thoughts are towards the gear, you’re missing the boat. Get on 400 test or something first cycle you don’t need more... and learn everything else that really matters. I’ll say it again not to insult you but to help you... you think you train hard but you don’t. Work on that and diet.

 

[Hyde]

Your cycle choice is extremely irrelevant. It’s still a misconception that people have that certain type of cycles will blow them up and stuff. A coach, a good diet and learning how to really train to failure and past failure will bring you results. (98% of people think they train hard but they don’t. You think you train hard but you don’t.) once this is mastered, and a coach is added... wether you do 400 test with 400 npp or test deca or test eq or test primo it doesn’t matter a second. The rest does. 1) training 2) diet 3) resting 4) lifestyle and good habits 5) steroids (in Order of importance). Every single experienced user / high level BBer will tell you they started off focusing on gear and did very high doses in their first years with minimal results. Years later they’ll tell you it’s the least of their concern and they’re using half or less of what they used to. All this basically to tell you if this is your first cycle and your thoughts are towards the gear, you’re missing the boat. Get on 400 test or something first cycle you don’t need more... and learn everything else that really matters. I’ll say it again not to insult you but to help you... you think you train hard but you don’t. Work on that and diet.

Man this is so true. I have been getting a lot of sessions in at the commercial gym right now while I am rehabbing my back and been avoiding barbell movements and loading my spine - it’s just insane the number of people spinning their wheels. Not just doing silly things that don’t matter as much or using poor technique with half reps etc, but just totally lolligagging about - “training” with so little effort they could carry on a conversation during their sets! I mean on any given day maybe one or two other people really training hard, but most are just barely able to summon the will to even break a sweat.

If you are not experiencing anything ever like seeing stars, nearly passing out, spittle flying from your mouth, occasional random cussing/outbursts/embarrassing grunts, gasping for breath, been nauseous, or needing to talk yourself into a lift you are about to attempt, you are lying to yourself about how hard you train - and missing out on your potential!

Just a rant, but I really wish someone had told me this sooner.

 

[Whisky]

Man this is so true. I have been getting a lot of sessions in at the commercial gym right now while I am rehabbing my back and been avoiding barbell movements and loading my spine - it’s just insane the number of people spinning their wheels. Not just doing silly things that don’t matter as much or using poor technique with half reps etc, but just totally lolligagging about - “training” with so little effort they could carry on a conversation during their sets! I mean on any given day maybe one or two other people really training hard, but most are just barely able to summon the will to even break a sweat.

If you are not experiencing anything ever like seeing stars, nearly passing out, spittle flying from your mouth, occasional random cussing/outbursts/embarrassing grunts, gasping for breath, been nauseous, or needing to talk yourself into a lift you are about to attempt, you are lying to yourself about how hard you train - and missing out on your potential!

Just a rant, but I really wish someone had told me this sooner.

to be honest I think a lot of people lack the mental fortitude to squat or deadlift heavy. The weight starts to feel ‘heavy’ way way before we hit the working weight so I think a lot of people just won’t keep pushing to see what they are actually capable of or force the body to change.

I know a lad who was maxing his squat with me before he started a new programme. He’s not a bug squatter but he hit 198 and said he felt it was max (it was obvious from the way it moved it wasn’t) - as I knew him I said no, you squat till you fail (I would never normally do this but I’d seen him sh1t of pushing it for years). He ended up making 275 before he missed…….his mind wanted to quit well before his body.

im fortunate I’ve trained some great people who do train hard and push but far more in corporate gyms just do the ‘easy’ stuff and then wonder why they don’t grow (then they hope on gear as that must be it)

 

[Smont]

to be honest I think a lot of people lack the mental fortitude to squat or deadlift heavy. The weight starts to feel ‘heavy’ way way before we hit the working weight so I think a lot of people just won’t keep pushing to see what they are actually capable of or force the body to change.

I know a lad who was maxing his squat with me before he started a new programme. He’s not a bug squatter but he hit 198 and said he felt it was max (it was obvious from the way it moved it wasn’t) - as I knew him I said no, you squat till you fail (I would never normally do this but I’d seen him sh1t of pushing it for years). He ended up making 275 before he missed…….his mind wanted to quit well before his body.

im fortunate I’ve trained some great people who do train hard and push but far more in corporate gyms just do the ‘easy’ stuff and then wonder why they don’t grow (then they hope on gear as that must be it)

I have the opposite problem, I can push myself to lift super heavy. But when it comes to doing higher reps and volume it's a challenge to push it to failure. I feel like when it comes to short intense sets or heavy weight I can nail it. But when the reps get past 12-15 and you gotta push through that pain zone I kinda flake out early

 

[Mathb33]

Man this is so true. I have been getting a lot of sessions in at the commercial gym right now while I am rehabbing my back and been avoiding barbell movements and loading my spine - it’s just insane the number of people spinning their wheels. Not just doing silly things that don’t matter as much or using poor technique with half reps etc, but just totally lolligagging about - “training” with so little effort they could carry on a conversation during their sets! I mean on any given day maybe one or two other people really training hard, but most are just barely able to summon the will to even break a sweat.

If you are not experiencing anything ever like seeing stars, nearly passing out, spittle flying from your mouth, occasional random cussing/outbursts/embarrassing grunts, gasping for breath, been nauseous, or needing to talk yourself into a lift you are about to attempt, you are lying to yourself about how hard you train - and missing out on your potential!

Just a rant, but I really wish someone had told me this sooner.

Exactly this. I rarely see people train the way I mean. I’m not saying this in a cocky way I trained like a pussy for years until I get my coach who’s all about very little top sets and minimum volume but balls to the walls failure. I thought I was going to failure doing legs until he trained with me for several weeks and showed me what it’s like. You realise what’s up when you’re "hitting failure" on a hack squat and he says you have 6 more in you and by time you rep/pause the last 2 you’re blind and about to throw up shaking from head to toe. was a long process of learning and not many people know what it’s like. As you mentionned... if you’re never uncomfortable... and weak by the end of the workout.. nauseous... sleepy, seeing stars, questioning your life and if you’ll make it out alive... you’re leaving progress behind. I’m litterally nervous hours prior to a leg workout because I know what’s coming.

 

[Smont]

Exactly this. I rarely see people train the way I mean. I’m not saying this in a cocky way I trained like a pussy for years until I get my coach who’s all about very little top sets and minimum volume but balls to the walls failure. I thought I was going to failure doing legs until he trained with me for several weeks and showed me what it’s like. You realise what’s up when you’re "hitting failure" on a hack squat and he says you have 6 more in you and by time you rep/pause the last 2 you’re blind and about to throw up shaking from head to toe. was a long process of learning and not many people know what it’s like. As you mentionned... if you’re never uncomfortable... and weak by the end of the workout.. nauseous... sleepy, seeing stars, questioning your life and if you’ll make it out alive... you’re leaving progress behind. I’m litterally nervous hours prior to a leg workout because I know what’s coming.

Are you talking like dogcrap style training techniques

 

[Mathb33]

Are you talking like dogcrap style training techniques

It depends explain me what’s a dogcrap style is? My training basically is the new school like ian valliaire .. Nick Walker etc where you don’t waste energy on useless sets. Imo it’s the best way to train as a bodybuilder except for a very few people who need volume.. basically say you have 3-4 exercise per muscle... you’ll only have 2 sets per exercise. 1 top set (failure or past failure) and a back off set. Each exercise have warm ups but they do not count as you don’t use any energy on them rather it’s just to build up your weight up to your top set. So say you’re incline benching 315 on your top set... id have 1 warm up 135 only 3-4 reps and 2 more warm ups going up to 315 but never more than 3-4 reps. So really it’s all about quality rather than quantity. I’ve never progressed as much as when I switched to this type of training back in October. Edit : this type of training is also obviously oriented towards progressive overload wether it’s more weight , more reps or better form.

 

[Smont]

It depends explain me what’s a dogcrap style is? My training basically is the new school like ian valliaire .. Nick Walker etc where you don’t waste energy on useless sets. Imo it’s the best way to train as a bodybuilder except for a very few people who need volume.. basically say you have 3-4 exercise per muscle... you’ll only have 2 sets per exercise. 1 top set (failure or past failure) and a back off set. Each exercise have warm ups but they do not count as you don’t use any energy on them rather it’s just to build up your weight up to your top set. So say you’re incline benching 315 on your top set... id have 1 warm up 135 only 3-4 reps and 2 more warm ups going up to 315 but never more than 3-4 reps. So really it’s all about quality rather than quantity. I’ve never progressed as much as when I switched to this type of training back in October. Edit : this type of training is also obviously oriented towards progressive overload wether it’s more weight , more reps or better form.

I'm not full on educated in DC training but I understand some principles and apply them.

Say for bench I'm working up to 250 for my working set, your going to do 3-4 warm up sets and now 250 to failure at say 9 reps, rest 15 seconds go to failure again, rest 15 seconds and hit failure 1 last time so its 1 set of 9reps +4 reps +2 reps for 15 total reps. You hit failure multiple times in a very short period of time. Then DC has you do a big painful long stretch at the end of that set.

So basically you want to annihilate yourself on 1 set. Then your secondary exercise is more traditional and so on. You have limited exercises and not much total volume per workout but your going to Go past absolute failure on at least 1 exercise per body part every couple days.

There's a lot more to it but I like that intensity technique with the short rest pause sets to go past failure

 

[Mathb33]

I'm not full on educated in DC training but I understand some principles and apply them.

Say for bench I'm working up to 250 for my working set, your going to do 3-4 warm up sets and now 250 to failure at say 9 reps, rest 15 seconds go to failure again, rest 15 seconds and hit failure 1 last time so its 1 set of 9reps +4 reps +2 reps for 15 total reps. You hit failure multiple times in a very short period of time. Then DC has you do a big painful long stretch at the end of that set.

So basically you want to annihilate yourself on 1 set. Then your secondary exercise is more traditional and so on. You have limited exercises and not much total volume per workout but your going to Go past absolute failure on at least 1 exercise per body part every couple days.

There's a lot more to it but I like that intensity technique with the short rest pause sets to go past failure

you pretty much nailed it except about the repetitive set failure. Bench isn’t the greatest exemple but let’s say you do have a spotter to watch haha. So you do your warm ups of 3-4-5 reps each warm ups... once you’re at your top set it’s as you mentionned complete failure but that’s it no pause and repeat unless you purposely set your top set as a pause set. Back off set ( second set ) as you mentionned is obviously lighter so say your top set was 250 you’ll want your back off around 200-220 or whatever weight youll get around 12 for more volume but once again pretty much to failure or 1-2 reps before failure. Usually bigger muscles don’t really need more than 3 exercises... smaller ones maybe 4 if you want. So really you’re having 6-8 sets per muscle. You should be fucked up every next morning and feel it hard. It’s really about quality and making every rep count and not leaving 1 single rep behind. It’ll eventually pay it’s due. Weights will go up, and it’ll simply force your body to grow with it. There’s some freedom also where your back off sets can be drop sets, rep pause sets and what not but the idea remains the same!

 

[Whisky]

Exactly this. I rarely see people train the way I mean. I’m not saying this in a cocky way I trained like a pussy for years until I get my coach who’s all about very little top sets and minimum volume but balls to the walls failure. I thought I was going to failure doing legs until he trained with me for several weeks and showed me what it’s like. You realise what’s up when you’re "hitting failure" on a hack squat and he says you have 6 more in you and by time you rep/pause the last 2 you’re blind and about to throw up shaking from head to toe. was a long process of learning and not many people know what it’s like. As you mentionned... if you’re never uncomfortable... and weak by the end of the workout.. nauseous... sleepy, seeing stars, questioning your life and if you’ll make it out alive... you’re leaving progress behind. I’m litterally nervous hours prior to a leg workout because I know what’s coming.

I also get nervous before my leg sessions

 

[Mathb33]

I also get nervous before my leg sessions

I learned to love it but honestly sometimes it’s hard. I gotta put some big music in the car and try to hype me up. I also watch some makaveli bodybuilding videos they help a lot

 

[Smont]

you pretty much nailed it except about the repetitive set failure. Bench isn’t the greatest exemple but let’s say you do have a spotter to watch haha. So you do your warm ups of 3-4-5 reps each warm ups... once you’re at your top set it’s as you mentionned complete failure but that’s it no pause and repeat unless you purposely set your top set as a pause set. Back off set ( second set ) as you mentionned is obviously lighter so say your top set was 250 you’ll want your back off around 200-220 or whatever weight youll get around 12 for more volume but once again pretty much to failure or 1-2 reps before failure. Usually bigger muscles don’t really need more than 3 exercises... smaller ones maybe 4 if you want. So really you’re having 6-8 sets per muscle. You should be fucked up every next morning and feel it hard. It’s really about quality and making every rep count and not leaving 1 single rep behind. It’ll eventually pay it’s due. Weights will go up, and it’ll simply force your body to grow with it. There’s some freedom also where your back off sets can be drop sets, rep pause sets and what not but the idea remains the same!

Just did my push workout in the style you described. Worked up to 265 for 8, rest 30 seconds and backed off to 225 for 9 more and did 2 follow up exercises for 3x12-15 each. Did it for chest then shoulders and just the volume sets on triceps. Then I burned out supersets of bw dips and side laterals till I hit 100 reps of each. Aside from the fact I was dripping in sweat it was probably the best pump I've had in a long time. I could barely lift a 20lb db over my head at the end of the workout.

 

[Hyde]

Are you talking like dogcrap style training techniques

This kind of work ethic applies to any set or rep range. 5x5, heavy singles, 20-rep sets of squat, legpress, deadlift, 100-rep isolation sets, rest-pause, isometrics, HIT, whatever. It really doesn’t matter - people can grow & strengthen with different methods, but they MUST work hard.

Truly hard work is the common thread that underlies all productive training. You’re going to have to want it, and you’re going to have to pay the dues.

We have all had sessions, maybe months or years, where we coasted. Just phoned it in. These may be necessary for one reason or another with life, injuries, stress, distractions. But the progress really comes in proportion to the effort applied.

 

[Mathb33]

Just did my push workout in the style you described. Worked up to 265 for 8, rest 30 seconds and backed off to 225 for 9 more and did 2 follow up exercises for 3x12-15 each. Did it for chest then shoulders and just the volume sets on triceps. Then I burned out supersets of bw dips and side laterals till I hit 100 reps of each. Aside from the fact I was dripping in sweat it was probably the best pump I've had in a long time. I could barely lift a 20lb db over my head at the end of the workout.

Nice bro!!! Very happy you tried it seriously! One more thing I forgot to mention! Don’t feel bad to take a min to a min 30 easy inbetween your top set and back off! Good tests are important in this type of workout! Just not too long either cause you wanna keep that insane pump and flow as you said. But seriously you’re right.. I feel like it’s a misconception massive volume gives the best pumps.. for me this type of workout gives me absolute unreal pump and I’m always sore like a beginner.