What is the Absolute Best Natty Stack? $XXX.XX?

[Novice4]

I am looking for the best stack to run for whatever duration you deem is best for said stack. I am planning on starting this either September, or waiting until January 2018.

Currently on week 5.5 of annabeta elite, I didn't notice much the first 3 weeks besides being more vascular (felt like I had eaten a lot of sodium, or had increase in BP) all the time. I upped my calories by a lot the past 10 days though, and started taking Arachidonic acid pre workout, also bumped Annabeta Elite dosage up to 5 caps daily from 4. Also started Erase Pro + just 5 days ago at 1 cap and found out I respond very fast to it (joints hurt, could be ARA combo)..

Given this info and my goal of a nice stack to help boost me through this plateau I have been on, what would you recommend?

- stack does not have to contain basic supplements, I always have protein, amminos, pre ect on hand. Unless there is something you would also
recommend here. Also not sure how much it would be worth spending on this stack, sometimes I feel it is a waste to drop a few hundred when there are plenty of cheap bulk test boosters Daa ect. All input welcome.

Thank you.

 

[Novice4]

Also 5' 11" 199.5lbs lean

 

[Myrmidon]

Ive been running assassinate, and kingsblood alongside origin for nice lean bulk. Up about 1.2 pounds after 5 weeks, have had very little fat gain even though Im about 400 calories over maintenance.

 

[macwad]

OL Tr1umph, OL Test1fy, MT Clear Muscle, Follidrone 2.
This stack is powerfull, although expensive

 

[cubsfan815]

What will be your goals with the stack? Bulk, Recomp, Cut?

 

[LeanEngineer]

X gels, ABE, and Triumph would be an awesome natty run.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

A thermogenic in the morning for fasted cardio, I always liked ECAY, keto type diet through the day until training (fats and protein, no carbs), once training begins: intra shake with hbcd or karbolyn 50-100g depending on volume and 10-25g eaa's, creatine, betaine beta alanine glutamine, Glycerine. Post workout carbs and protein, no fats. Before bed GDA like slintensity and Evomuse Keto Induce.

Part of your day is focused around lipolysis, training times are anabolic.

 

[Jebrook]

I am looking for the best stack to run for whatever duration you deem is best for said stack. I am planning on starting this either September, or waiting until January 2018.

Currently on week 5.5 of annabeta elite, I didn't notice much the first 3 weeks besides being more vascular (felt like I had eaten a lot of sodium, or had increase in BP) all the time. I upped my calories by a lot the past 10 days though, and started taking Arachidonic acid pre workout, also bumped Annabeta Elite dosage up to 5 caps daily from 4. Also started Erase Pro + just 5 days ago at 1 cap and found out I respond very fast to it (joints hurt, could be ARA combo)..

Given this info and my goal of a nice stack to help boost me through this plateau I have been on, what would you recommend?

- stack does not have to contain basic supplements, I always have protein, amminos, pre ect on hand. Unless there is something you would also
recommend here. Also not sure how much it would be worth spending on this stack, sometimes I feel it is a waste to drop a few hundred when there are plenty of cheap bulk test boosters Daa ect. All input welcome.

Thank you.

What will be your goals with the stack? Bulk, Recomp, Cut?

Yes, which of these is your goal. We didn't see it mentioned specifically.

 

[john.patterson]

I upped my calories by a lot the past 10 days though, and started taking Arachidonic acid pre workout, also bumped Annabeta Elite dosage up to 5 caps daily from 4. Also started Erase Pro + just 5 days ago at 1 cap and found out I respond very fast to it (joints hurt, could be ARA combo)

Definitely a possibility - stacking these two together has always given me joint issues.

Depending on your goals, here's a few of my go-to products:

Bulking or lean bulking - ArA, Tr1umph, Massmax XT, X-Gels, Alphamax XT (obviously not all of these at once, but any 1-2 of these products would be solid)
Cutting or recomp - Alphamax XT, EC stack, Inhibit-e, Reduce XT, Oxymax XT

It really depends on your goals and what you've used in the past. I wouldn't recommend stacking more than 2 products that you've never used before. You won't be able to tell what products are giving what benefit. I would also focus on keeping it simple and relying on training and diet to dictate the majority of your progress

 

[The_Old_Guy]

A small caloric surplus netting 0.5%-1% bodyweight gain per week (assumes a desire not to put on a ton of fat, although some always comes along for the ride) and maybe, maybe, maybe Arachodonic Acid. See Examine's Analysis of ArA.

 

[AdelV]

Hitting as many angles as possible

Massmax XT
XGELS
TEST1FY
OR1G1N

8-12 weeks
If money isn't an issue, and you wanna be silly ?

 

[Bamski]

Currently just started ABE/X-gels/Elim1nate/Laxo! Always has treated me nicely for a recomp and boost in strength to power through those plateaus.

 

[booneman77]

my two go-to's are xgels+abe and magnitropin (solo but it has a whole bunch of stuff in it and could stack with xgels as well).

throw in some agamtine xt for a cheap gda/pump adder and you're good to go

 

[booneman77]

double

 

[warbird01]

X gels+ALCAR+soy lecithin+ anything else you want to stack.

Check out this thread for more info on x gels: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/246394-arachidonic-acid-help.html

 

[mrhankey87]

X-Gels
Anabeta Elite
Tr1umph

Haven't found anything better. I'll try to switch from ABE to Massmax XT in the future, let's see how it goes

 

[EMPIREMIND]

A thermogenic in the morning for fasted cardio, I always liked ECAY, keto type diet through the day until training (fats and protein, no carbs), once training begins: intra shake with hbcd or karbolyn 50-100g depending on volume and 10-25g eaa's, creatine, betaine beta alanine glutamine, Glycerine. Post workout carbs and protein, no fats. Before bed GDA like slintensity and Evomuse Keto Induce.

Part of your day is focused around lipolysis, training times are anabolic.

I posted this because natty or not this is a great way to optimize nutrition around training and potentially burn fat while building muscle.


I've never used these, but on paper this seems like a great combo:
OL Triumph and ARA

One I have tried and really like is Evomuse BMP, that stuff works fast for me. Although nothing major, definite body composition changes and fullness

 

[AntM1564]

Hitting as many angles as possible

Massmax XT
XGELS
TEST1FY
OR1G1N

8-12 weeks
If money isn't an issue, and you wanna be silly ��

I like the idea of MassMax and X-Gels. X-Gels solo really helped my strength, as did MassMax XT. MassMax also increased my appetite which would be great if you're trying to get in more calories to help you get over a plateau. Users have reported a solid 6-7 pounds increase of bodyweight in 4 weeks with MassMax XT, but despite the extra weight, their body composition improved. Pair an 8 week run with a 50 day run of X-Gels and you'll be over that plateau.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

It depends on the route you want to go (bulk, cut, recomp, etc), and even training protocol.

I'd start with a basic daily ergogenic supplement if you're not alreaady taking one (something with creatine, betaine, etc). PowerMax XT, Ergonine, and Triumph are all good options with different "extras" besides the creatine/betaine/etc. PowerMax XT has WPH+leucine (so it can also be used as an intra-workout), and Triumph has the lecithin for PA.

From there you could add a "test booster," but I use them more for their benefits on mood/performance/body composition. Ingredients like ashwagandha and forksolin can benefit body composition in other ways (MoAs) than just increasing testosterone levels. AlphaMax XT and M-Test are good options. These aren't a necessity though, but they can help.

A natural anabolic can also help, and something that increases appetite can also be great for bulking. I really like MassMax XT, and it's been getting some good feedback too. Magnitropin was another good one that I found increased my appetite back when I used it.

I also like HMB (I go with the cheap bulk powder now) if I'm overreaching (increasing volume and/or frequency), as it allows me to get more training in, which means more progress (this works especially well if I focus on adding a little weight to the exercises each workout; more workouts doing this means more progress).

ARA (X-Gels) are also a good natty option, but some people (myself included) don't use it due to potential inflammation issues. For a lot of people it's great though.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

It depends on the route you want to go (bulk, cut, recomp, etc), and even training protocol.

I'd start with a basic daily ergogenic supplement if you're not alreaady taking one (something with creatine, betaine, etc). PowerMax XT, Ergonine, and Triumph are all good options with different "extras" besides the creatine/betaine/etc. PowerMax XT has WPH+leucine (so it can also be used as an intra-workout), and Triumph has the lecithin for PA.

From there you could add a "test booster," but I use them more for their benefits on mood/performance/body composition. Ingredients like ashwagandha and forksolin can benefit body composition in other ways (MoAs) than just increasing testosterone levels. AlphaMax XT and M-Test are good options. These aren't a necessity though, but they can help.

A natural anabolic can also help, and something that increases appetite can also be great for bulking. I really like MassMax XT, and it's been getting some good feedback too. Magnitropin was another good one that I found increased my appetite back when I used it.

I also like HMB (I go with the cheap bulk powder now) if I'm overreaching (increasing volume and/or frequency), as it allows me to get more training in, which means more progress (this works especially well if I focus on adding a little weight to the exercises each workout; more workouts doing this means more progress).

ARA (X-Gels) are also a good natty option, but some people (myself included) don't use it due to potential inflammation issues. For a lot of people it's great though.

 

[double s]

What will be your goals with the stack? Bulk, Recomp, Cut?

Ding ding ding

 

[Adizzle1]

MassMax, Alphamax, Slinmax FTW!

 

[bigsmall]

If your gonna buy one product, it should be folidrone 2. Add some cheap PA and your good.

 

[mrhankey87]

If your gonna buy one product, it should be folidrone 2. Add some cheap PA and your good.

In my case, X-Gels was WAY more powerful than FD2, but ymmv.

 

[Adizzle1]

In my case, X-Gels was WAY more powerful than FD2, but ymmv.

Have you tired MassMax XT Yet?

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

Xgels + PA + epicathetin

 

[mrhankey87]

Have you tired MassMax XT Yet?

That's next in line during sept/oct

 

[bigsmall]

In my case, X-Gels was WAY more powerful than FD2, but ymmv.

Ya, I am 49. Started using ARA many years ago and each time I would use it, I would get a little more inflammation to the point where I could no longer use them. imo, they cause permanent damage - in that - your system's reaction and ability to fight inflammation brought on by the stress of training is reduced. I would stay away from them. ANything that cause inflammation other than training should be avoided imo. And FD2 is an anti inflammatory. I agree that ARA works great, but get ready for the cost to be paid later.

 

[warbird01]

Ya, I am 49. Started using ARA many years ago and each time I would use it, I would get a little more inflammation to the point where I could no longer use them. imo, they cause permanent damage - in that - your system's reaction and ability to fight inflammation brought on by the stress of training is reduced. I would stay away from them. ANything that cause inflammation other than training should be avoided imo. And FD2 is an anti inflammatory. I agree that ARA works great, but get ready for the cost to be paid later.

There have been real world studies on ArA and no prolonged negative affects from the inflammation has been shown. Sorry to hear that you had prolonged negative effects though, that sucks.

 

[bigsmall]

There have been real world studies on ArA and no prolonged negative affects from the inflammation has been shown. Sorry to hear that you had prolonged negative effects though, that sucks.

Do those studies include prolonged use since MN had it in Beta? And under real lifting conditions? Doubt it Bud - stop blowing smoke up my ass...

 

[R1balla]

This is currently my favorite set up. Works for lean bulk, recomp or dirty bulk.

Weeks 1-4
Forskolin

Weeks 5-8
AlphaMax XT + ArA + MassMax XT

Weeks 9-12
AlphaMax XT + ArA + MassMax XT

 

[warbird01]

Do those studies include prolonged use since MN had it in Beta? And under real lifting conditions? Doubt it Bud - stop blowing smoke up my ass...

Actually yeah, the studies were done specifically done on lifters. Why would I reference a study not based on lifting lol.

Here is one just from a quick google search: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?****10.1371/journal.pone.0155153

A google search will actually bring a few studies done on male lifters.

 

[warbird01]

This is currently my favorite set up. Works for lean bulk, recomp or dirty bulk.

Weeks 1-4
Forskolin

Weeks 5-8
AlphaMax XT + ArA + MassMax XT

Weeks 9-12
AlphaMax XT + ArA + MassMax XT

Dope stack.

 

[Jiigzz]

Ya, I am 49. Started using ARA many years ago and each time I would use it, I would get a little more inflammation to the point where I could no longer use them. imo, they cause permanent damage - in that - your system's reaction and ability to fight inflammation brought on by the stress of training is reduced. I would stay away from them. ANything that cause inflammation other than training should be avoided imo. And FD2 is an anti inflammatory. I agree that ARA works great, but get ready for the cost to be paid later.

No, no it doesn't.

It literally works through the same pathway as what the response to working out does.

Does prolonged training impair the inflammatory system? Research says nope

 

[Jiigzz]

Do those studies include prolonged use since MN had it in Beta? And under real lifting conditions? Doubt it Bud - stop blowing smoke up my ass...

Yes, they actually do. The studies mimic the use we recommend. 50 days on showing no ill effect.

 

[bigsmall]

Actually yeah, the studies were done specifically done on lifters. Why would I reference a study not based on lifting lol.

Here is one just from a quick google search: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?****10.1371/journal.pone.0155153

A google search will actually bring a few studies done on male lifters.

Link to page not found - please provide link to the male study so we are on the same page. ty

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Link to page not found - please provide link to the male study so we are on the same page. ty

I don't know if this is the same study, but it's a study:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?****10.1371/journal.pone.0155153

Thirty strength-trained males (age: 20.4 ± 2.1 yrs) were randomly divided into two groups: ARA or placebo (i.e. CTL). Then, both groups underwent an 8-week, 3-day per week, non-periodized training protocol. Quadriceps muscle thickness, whole-body composition scan (DEXA), muscle strength, and power were assessed at baseline and post-test. In the rodent model, male Wistar rats (~250 g, ~8 weeks old) were pre-fed with either ARA or water (CTL) for 8 days and were fed the final dose of ARA prior to being acutely strength trained via electrical stimulation on unilateral plantar flexions. A mixed muscle sample was removed from the exercised and non-exercised leg 3 hours post-exercise.

Our findings suggest that ARA supplementation can positively augment strength-training induced adaptations in resistance-trained males. However, chronic studies at the molecular level are required to further elucidate how ARA combined with strength training affect muscle adaptation.

 

[GAINZFORDAYZ]

Yes, they actually do. The studies mimic the use we recommend. 50 days on showing no ill effect.

I have been interested in giving ArA a try but my concern is that it might be overkill inflammation. I have always had issues with soreness and joint pain even when I was back in high school. Nothing major and with diet/supplements I have managed fine, and even though I training regularly still get delayed soreness. In addition I cannot image training with out omega-3 so on the fence.

So to summarize for individuals that have no issue getting inflammation is ArA worth taking?

 

[u_e_s_i]

Definitely a possibility - stacking these two together has always given me joint issues.

Depending on your goals, here's a few of my go-to products:

Bulking or lean bulking - ArA, Tr1umph, Massmax XT, X-Gels, Alphamax XT (obviously not all of these at once, but any 1-2 of these products would be solid)
Cutting or recomp - Alphamax XT, EC stack, Inhibit-e, Reduce XT, Oxymax XT

It really depends on your goals and what you've used in the past. I wouldn't recommend stacking more than 2 products that you've never used before. You won't be able to tell what products are giving what benefit. I would also focus on keeping it simple and relying on training and diet to dictate the majority of your progress

I used to use inhibit-e or arimacare pro (which contains abieta and arimistane) to help me cut but was told that using suicide ais leads to estrogen rebounds. Would you say that that advice was wrong or should I dose below the rda?

 

[warbird01]

I used to use inhibit-e or arimacare pro (which contains abieta and arimistane) to help me cut but was told that using suicide ais leads to estrogen rebounds. Would you say that that advice was wrong or should I dose below the rda?

Suicide inhibitor's do not lead to rebound. That is definitely wrong.

 

[Novice4]

Thanks for the infor everyone. Sorry for the long delay. My goals were to bulk up and try to stay lean. I am starting to see some results from the annabeta elite but I am not sure how well I respond to it.

I stopped taking the erase pro+ as it seemed like a waste for this bulk. Currently sitting at 200.5lbs body weight but I feel I have lost a pound or two of fat. More definition in abs. I just need to eat more food.. currently slamming down as much food as I can. I have resorted to things such as eating pizza, six pb&j sandwiches ontop of what I was eating a day, extra protein shake, snacks through day...

So maybe the annabeta elite is doing it's job if I am not gaining fat while eating like this. I have EXTREME vascularity in my arms, and even can see some veins in chest under skin. (Note I stopped the Erase Pro+) Also increased erections, which I can somewhat attribute to the annabeta elite. Sometimes getting an erection at bad timings.

Thanks for the info on the diet plan as well. This is the first time I have eaten very high carb though and I am responding to it well. I will post an update here in a little bit as well. Someone just told me I should try to do this physique show coming up and I am not sure if I want to start trully cutting for it... given I am just now starting to gain some weight and my heart is more in gaining than cutting at the moment. Show is 12 weeks away.

 

[ion26]

This is currently my favorite set up. Works for lean bulk, recomp or dirty bulk.

Weeks 1-4
Forskolin

Weeks 5-8
AlphaMax XT + ArA + MassMax XT

Weeks 9-12
AlphaMax XT + ArA + MassMax XT

Curious here. What's the purpose of starting out with the Forskolin?

 

[AntM1564]

Curious here. What's the purpose of starting out with the Forskolin?

To get used to it. Some people need to taper into a 50+ mg dose because of GI issues.

 

[jgntyce]

Great recommendations so far. Don't forget about creatine. SNS makes creatine monohydrate which is good for size and strength if you don't mind the water retention. Creatine HCL is great as well and I have used it with great results.

 

[bigsmall]

Link to page not found - please provide link to the male study so we are on the same page. ty

warbird01 Got that link to that study??

 

[R1balla]

Curious here. What's the purpose of starting out with the Forskolin?

One would be to get used to it...the other (my reason) would be to be using forskolin for 12 weeks continuously.

 

[BCseacow83]

Ya, I am 49. Started using ARA many years ago and each time I would use it, I would get a little more inflammation to the point where I could no longer use them. imo, they cause permanent damage - in that - your system's reaction and ability to fight inflammation brought on by the stress of training is reduced. I would stay away from them. ANything that cause inflammation other than training should be avoided imo. And FD2 is an anti inflammatory. I agree that ARA works great, but get ready for the cost to be paid later.

http://wholefoodcatalog.info/nutrient/arachidonic_acid/foods/

Sooo, high intake of eggs for 50 days would lead to permanent increases in inflammation? I don't doubt you are dealing with chronic inflammation, i do as well and can't take ARA, but a permanent increase from it alone i doubt.

 

[Jiigzz]

While Ara is involved in chronic inflammation, it is not the cause of chronic inflammation. In much the same way using supplements to alter neurotransmitters (I.e. serotonin, dopamine etc) does not cause depression even though depression has ties to neurotransmitter imbalance.

This is where a lot of people go wrong in their thought process. For instance, creatine supplementation can cause excessive levels of creatinine, and certain kidney conditions can also increase these levels, but that doesn't mean creatine causes those kidney issues.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

warbird01 Got that link to that study??

Look like the board censored a string of characters in his original link - it' probably in here somewhere:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/search?q=Arachidonic+acid&filterJournals=PLoSONE