Unanswered What is everyone's Thoughts On Turmeric ?

Rocket3015

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Remind me when we post teaser or promo thread and I’ll be glad to send you a bottle. It’s probsbly 6 weeks out. It’s going to be very unique - 4 licensed branded ingredients + more.
I will take you up on that offer, Thank you!
 
cheftepesh1

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This one is a ways out. Formulation part is done and label artwork is almost complete. Best guess is 6 weeks but that's being somewhat optimistic.
Always coming out with the essentials.
 
sns8778

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Did the sns product come out yet?
Not yet but its in the works. Hoping for a 6 to 8 week ETA on this one. We have so many products in production that our own new stuff is bumping back our other new stuff haha.
 
Rocket3015

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Remind me when we post teaser or promo thread and I’ll be glad to send you a bottle. It’s probsbly 6 weeks out. It’s going to be very unique - 4 licensed branded ingredients + more.
sns8778
has this ever dropped ?
 
sdplissken

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Curcumin (C3) with piperine, boswellia (boswellin), cissus, year round non stop. Joints, ligaments, tendons in tip top shape.
 
sns8778

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I didn't think so, looking forward to it !
Thanks. Labels are done and its in the lineup; we just have so many new things lined up that its like new things are bumping our other new things haha.
 

SweetLou321

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Pros and cons to supplementing curcuminoids. Some info that may apply to many here.

May help muscle recovery but at the expense of adaptations due to blunting inflammation from exercise:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/sms.13373

https://tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19390211.2019.1604604

It inhibits the COX enzymes which may delay the resolution of inflammation long-term, this however; is based on research conducted on NSAIDs that inhibit the COX enzymes:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3882565/

If SPMs are blunted then they may directly impact hypertrophy based on some theoretical underpinnings:

http://eir-isei.de/2016/eir-2016-110-article.pdf

It has been shown to decrease left ventricular hypertrophy:

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.124.suppl_21.a14380

The most potent form may be CurcuWIN due to increase free curcuminoid blood levels :

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1756464616000426

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6174784/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30889454

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27043120
 
jameschoi

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Pros and cons to supplementing curcuminoids. Some info that may apply to many here.

May help muscle recovery but at the expense of adaptations due to blunting inflammation from exercise:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/sms.13373

https://tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19390211.2019.1604604

It inhibits the COX enzymes which may delay the resolution of inflammation long-term, this however; is based on research conducted on NSAIDs that inhibit the COX enzymes:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3882565/

If SPMs are blunted then they may directly impact hypertrophy based on some theoretical underpinnings:

http://eir-isei.de/2016/eir-2016-110-article.pdf

It has been shown to decrease left ventricular hypertrophy:

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.124.suppl_21.a14380

The most potent form may be CurcuWIN due to increase free curcuminoid blood levels :

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1756464616000426

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6174784/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30889454

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27043120
Try this combo:
 
muscleupcrohn

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Pros and cons to supplementing curcuminoids. Some info that may apply to many here.

May help muscle recovery but at the expense of adaptations due to blunting inflammation from exercise:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/sms.13373

https://tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19390211.2019.1604604

It inhibits the COX enzymes which may delay the resolution of inflammation long-term, this however; is based on research conducted on NSAIDs that inhibit the COX enzymes:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3882565/

If SPMs are blunted then they may directly impact hypertrophy based on some theoretical underpinnings:

http://eir-isei.de/2016/eir-2016-110-article.pdf

It has been shown to decrease left ventricular hypertrophy:

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.124.suppl_21.a14380

The most potent form may be CurcuWIN due to increase free curcuminoid blood levels :

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1756464616000426

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6174784/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30889454

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27043120
Regarding the first study, just don’t take it in the peri-workout window if you’re really concerned. The discussion/perspective of the full-text of said study also said they’re not certain on the effect of excessive antioxidant intake on the beneficial effects of exercise in the long-term. But avoiding the antioxidants in the peri-workout timeframe seems like a no-brainer to me if you’re concerned about it.


The second study said:
Curcumin may reduce muscle damage and perceived muscle soreness without negatively impacting a natural inflammatory response following exercise.
Edit: and it also said that the decreased perceived muscle soreness could lead to greater subsequent exercise performance along with increasing training volume, leading to more progress.
 

SweetLou321

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Regarding the first study, just don’t take it in the peri-workout window if you’re really concerned. The discussion/perspective of the full-text of said study also said they’re not certain on the effect of excessive antioxidant intake on the beneficial effects of exercise in the long-term. But avoiding the antioxidants in the peri-workout timeframe seems like a no-brainer to me if you’re concerned about it.


The second study said:


Edit: and it also said that the decreased perceived muscle soreness could lead to greater subsequent exercise performance along with increasing training volume, leading to more progress.
I more so posted these as its not clear of its effects but it could negatively impact adaptations. The studies conflict with one another. They do not use the same dosing or formulations. One showed about a months use prior to the exercise intervention assisted in recovery with no statistically significant effects on the tested inflammatory markers post exercise. However, the other one noted a decrease in the tested markers with use for 7 days prior to exercise intervention. They did not find this effect when it was taken 7 days post intervention but since many workout several days a week these windows will always be overlapping with constant use. Of course more research needs to be done and it there may be dosage and formulation specific effects, similar to vitamin C and other antioxidant compounds. I just wanted to share as it may not be the holy grail for all things like most think. Esp given potential mechanisms on the total inflammatory process and long term inflammatory management.

Also most well designed curcumin formulations not only increase absorption but also half-life. Not to mention constant dosing will likely lead to some steady state effects overall so the peri workout time becomes much less relevant long term. It will be interesting to see how future research plays out. For those that have gains as their top priority, it may be wise to avoid usage though unless needed for joint function ect to maximize training performance.
 

SweetLou321

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Thanks for sharing.

I didn't find the study, did not look that hard. But this:


The above states they saw a decrease in post-wo IL-6, this can possibly indicate that this combo will blunt exercise adaptations. Useful for athletes who have return to play period that are predetermined and peak short term performance outweighs long term adaptations at that time.

Boswellia inhibits 5-LOX, which is essential for producing SPMs which helps resolve inflammation and theoretically play a large role in the final stages of exercise adaptations induced by inflammation.
 
muscleupcrohn

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I more so posted these as its not clear of its effects but it could negatively impact adaptations. The studies conflict with one another. They do not use the same dosing or formulations. One showed about a months use prior to the exercise intervention assisted in recovery with no statistically significant effects on the tested inflammatory markers post exercise. However, the other one noted a decrease in the tested markers with use for 7 days prior to exercise intervention. They did not find this effect when it was taken 7 days post intervention but since many workout several days a week these windows will always be overlapping with constant use. Of course more research needs to be done and it there may be dosage and formulation specific effects, similar to vitamin C and other antioxidant compounds. I just wanted to share as it may not be the holy grail for all things like most think. Esp given potential mechanisms on the total inflammatory process and long term inflammatory management.

Also most well designed curcumin formulations not only increase absorption but also half-life. Not to mention constant dosing will likely lead to some steady state effects overall so the peri workout time becomes much less relevant long term. It will be interesting to see how future research plays out. For those that have gains as their top priority, it may be wise to avoid usage though unless needed for joint function ect to maximize training performance.
True, we don’t know for sure, but, personally, I’m not overly concerned TBH. Especially if, as some studies say, you can capitalize on the improved recovery to train more often or with more volume, which could perhaps mitigate any negatives, resulting in a neutral impact while still having the general health benefits? Who knows really.
 

SweetLou321

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True, we don’t know for sure, but, personally, I’m not overly concerned TBH. Especially if, as some studies say, you can capitalize on the improved recovery to train more often or with more volume, which could perhaps mitigate any negatives, resulting in a neutral impact while still having the general health benefits? Who knows really.
This effect may be there, yes. But with other things, such as NAC, that help recovery in the short term (24-48 hours) they actually see recovery worsened by day 5-6 post-wo. That curcumin study only measured up 48 hours post-wo. Its hard to say, which is why I wonder about curcumins effects on SPMs. For reference:


Time will tell.
 
muscleupcrohn

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This effect may be there, yes. But with other things, such as NAC, that help recovery in the short term (24-48 hours) they actually see recovery worsened by day 5-6 post-wo. That curcumin study only measured up 48 hours post-wo. Its hard to say, which is why I wonder about curcumins effects on SPMs. For reference:


Time will tell.
At what point do we begin to major in the minors? I get wanting to optimize everything for muscle growth and progression, but if using something like curcumin allows you to actually feel good, and keep going to the gym and not in pain, I’d wager that’d far outweigh any negative impact it could have on hypertrophy. That said, you may have a point in that you may not want to just take curcumin if you have literally no joint/inflammation issues at all.
 
muscleupcrohn

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This effect may be there, yes. But with other things, such as NAC, that help recovery in the short term (24-48 hours) they actually see recovery worsened by day 5-6 post-wo. That curcumin study only measured up 48 hours post-wo. Its hard to say, which is why I wonder about curcumins effects on SPMs. For reference:


Time will tell.
At what point do we begin to major in the minors? I get wanting to optimize everything for muscle growth and progression, but if using something like curcumin allows you to actually feel good, and keep going to the gym and not in pain, I’d wager that’d far outweigh any negative impact it could have on hypertrophy. That said, you may have a point in that you may not want to just take curcumin if you have literally no joint/inflammation issues at all.
 

SweetLou321

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At what point do we begin to major in the minors? I get wanting to optimize everything for muscle growth and progression, but if using something like curcumin allows you to actually feel good, and keep going to the gym and not in pain, I’d wager that’d far outweigh any negative impact it could have on hypertrophy. That said, you may have a point in that you may not want to just take curcumin if you have literally no joint/inflammation issues at all.
I never disagreed with this point.

Edit:

I appreciate the back and forth discussion.

I do not believe understanding how to adapt properly to the exercise most do for the adaptations and what may impact this process positively or negatively is minor; esp considering most spend a lot of money on exotic supplements with only cell culture or animal data yet blunt the adaptations to exercise by taking other supplements. We can agree to disagree here. If the pain is caused by an excessive workload and one uses curcumin to speed of return to activity but that blunt adaptations, most would benefit from just doing less work and adapting to it. Curcumin can certainly provide a hormetic effect to those with a higher overall inflammatory status, which for applies to much older individuals then most of this board. If one uses curcumin for joint pain related to exercise, maybe try standardized type-II cartilage instead, that works by retraining the immune response to damage joint tissue instead of inhibiting COX. The point of board like this is to provide concepts and ideas. Id argue most want to maximize their gains. I did post a study in humans showing curcumin can decrease left ventricular hypertrophy which should peak the interest of anyone who uses gear. So it will always be a pro and con argument.

Here is a study on type-II cartilage and joint pain related to activity:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4015808/
 
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muscleupcrohn

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I never disagreed with this point.

Edit:

I appreciate the back and forth discussion.

I do not believe understanding how to adapt properly to the exercise most do for the adaptations and what may impact this process positively or negatively is minor; esp considering most spend a lot of money on exotic supplements with only cell culture or animal data yet blunt the adaptations to exercise by taking other supplements. We can agree to disagree here. If the pain is caused by an excessive workload and one uses curcumin to speed of return to activity but that blunt adaptations, most would benefit from just doing less work and adapting to it. Curcumin can certainly provide a hormetic effect to those with a higher overall inflammatory status, which for applies to much older individuals then most of this board. If one uses curcumin for joint pain related to exercise, maybe try standardized type-II cartilage instead, that works by retraining the immune response to damage joint tissue instead of inhibiting COX. The point of board like this is to provide concepts and ideas. Id argue most want to maximize their gains. I did post a study in humans showing curcumin can decrease left ventricular hypertrophy which should peak the interest of anyone who uses gear. So it will always be a pro and con argument.

Here is a study on type-II cartilage and joint pain related to activity:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4015808/
That’s true, there are other ingredients for exercise-induced joint pain that would likely be better candidates than curcumin if that’s your issue. I’m not suggesting to use curcumin to try to compensate for or overcome exercise-induced joint pain so much as, like you I said, if you just have general joint issues as you likely start to age. But, then again, some of these ingredients that can help with exercise-induced joint pain can also help with other causes of joint pain. I know there’s a few ingredients that fit this bill, and you mentioned one of them.
 
jameschoi

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That’s true, there are other ingredients for exercise-induced joint pain that would likely be better candidates than curcumin if that’s your issue. I’m not suggesting to use curcumin to try to compensate for or overcome exercise-induced joint pain so much as, like you I said, if you just have general joint issues as you likely start to age. But, then again, some of these ingredients that can help with exercise-induced joint pain can also help with other causes of joint pain. I know there’s a few ingredients that fit this bill, and you mentioned one of them.
What is better than circumin for joint pain.
 
muscleupcrohn

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What is better than circumin for joint pain.
Terminalia chebula has some very promising studies on pain.

UC-II and NEM have studies specific to exercise-induced pain off the top of my head.

MSM may have had at least one promising study in this area too, and there’s another ingredient or two I’m forgetting ATM.
 

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800mg HydroCurc daily, can train biceps heavy again with no pain .. cant remember when I did that last time
 
Rocket3015

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800mg HydroCurc daily, can train biceps heavy again with no pain .. cant remember when I did that last time
No Pain is a Good Thing !!
 
G34RS

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I've always been of the mind that if if you can find a supplement in your spice rack, then there's really no downside. My mother who's a nurse and has arthritis issues makes a tea with it with it everyday, so it's harmless at the very least.
 
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Rocket3015

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I've always been in the mind that if if you can find a supplement in your spice rack, then there's really no downside. My mother who's a nurse and has arthritis issues makes a tea with it with it everyday, so it's harmless at the very least.
Good Info !!
 

aaronuconn

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Seems to be one the best options for raising free curcuminoid blood levels. Its interesting.
I’m still probably partial to theracumin, but given the cost, CGM looks to be a great option looking forward
 
Resolve10

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CGM (curcumin-galactomannoside) looks promising as wel
Any experience with it? I’m tempted to pick some up from Life Extension. Not sure if I should make the switch from Theracumin, but if I could save some money I am wondering if it would be worth it..
 

aaronuconn

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Any experience with it? I’m tempted to pick some up from Life Extension. Not sure if I should make the switch from Theracumin, but if I could save some money I am wondering if it would be worth it..
That’s the brand I just picked up. I went back to C3 from Theracurmin (to see if I actually noticed a difference) for the last 2 months and noticed some slight joint discomfort, but the big confounding thing here is I’ve added a lot more volume on compound lifts into my routine so that’s the likely culprit. That slight joint pain may have come back even if I was still using Theracurmin.

I will say I’ve been using CGM for about 1.5 weeks and the slight joint pain I was experiencing has gone away 🤷‍♂️

This could just be me adapting a bit more to the new style of training as well.
 

aaronuconn

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Any experience with it? I’m tempted to pick some up from Life Extension. Not sure if I should make the switch from Theracumin, but if I could save some money I am wondering if it would be worth it..
That’s the brand I just picked up. I went back to C3 from Theracurmin (to see if I actually noticed a difference) for the last 2 months and noticed some slight joint discomfort, but the big confounding thing here is I’ve added a lot more volume on compound lifts into my routine so that’s the likely culprit. That slight joint pain may have come back even if I was still using Theracurmin.

I will say I’ve been using CGM for about 1.5 weeks and the slight joint pain I was experiencing has gone away 🤷‍♂️

This could just be me adapting a bit more to the new style of training as well.
 
luckylefty811

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They are not exactly the same, Life Extension has an trademark on better standardizations then anyone else using this raw material atm
I have the blue bottle from amazon. Life extension brand , it’s working wonders in my robe and half the price of my previous joint/inflammation pain supps.
 
poison

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Trade name is CurQFen.
They are not exactly the same, Life Extension has an trademark on better standardizations then anyone else using this raw material atm

I call bs. The studies on cgm were using curqfen, a patented extract. Life Extension isn't modifying a patented extract, though they may be using a different patented extract.
 
NutButter

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I call bs. The studies on cgm were using curqfen, a patented extract. Life Extension isn't modifying a patented extract, though they may be using a different patented extract.
Good info. I'd be interested in seeing if anyone has used the LE cgm and the Swanson's Curqfen and noticed any difference in the two
 
scoooter

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Thoughts; not worth it

tried it many times, various types/strains/mix's...looking of pain relief from sore joints, must be a non responder, had limited to no effect so I've dropped it
 
Jiigzz

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Trade name is CurQFen.



I call bs. The studies on cgm were using curqfen, a patented extract. Life Extension isn't modifying a patented extract, though they may be using a different patented extract.
Yeah, pretty sure it would be against the rules of use to modify the patented extract
 
poison

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Good info. I'd be interested in seeing if anyone has used the LE cgm and the Swanson's Curqfen and noticed any difference in the two
Their writeup states 'a 45.5 times increase', which is what curqfen states. Same ****, same price.
 

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Wasnt there a meta-study that showed curcumin was probably useless and all the studies showing its efficacy majorly flawed? Ill have to try find it.
 

SweetLou321

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They are not exactly the same. They have a deal with CurQFen to trademark their name of Curcumin Elite. What this trademark does is hold their raw material to a higher specification analysis. What they call out on their label is guaranteed where other companies using this ingredient may have the same or less, as it can vary depending on the lot they get from CurQFen. You can call LE and ask. Every batch of the LE material is providing 40% curcuminoids, 3% turmerones, and 30% galactomannans. This is higher then what many of the studies site for the specs of the raw material provided.

Edit, I was interested in this ingredient and asked them about it.
 
Resolve10

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Thanks for the info I do think I’m grabbing this to give a try next.
 

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