What gave you the most PURE hypertrophy from experience?

What gave you the most muscle gains from compound excercises(strength NOT a factor)?

  • 12-8 reps, 60-90 sec rests, more then 1 set

    Votes: 125 23.4%

  • 12-8 reps, 2-3 min rests, more then 1 set

    Votes: 89 16.6%

  • 12-8 reps 1

    Votes: 19 3.6%

  • 8-4 reps 2-3 min rests, more then 1 set

    Votes: 179 33.5%

  • 8-4 reps 2-3 min rests 1

    Votes: 23 4.3%

  • 8-4 reps 60-90 sec rests, more then 1 set

    Votes: 100 18.7%
  • Total voters
    535
Its called increasing TUT and using ratios that emphasize slow eccentric actions. Its nothing new and will have a postive effect on myofibrillar hypertrophy. What is funny is seeing people think you can have 2 types of responses by having a explosive concentric action and slow eccetric action. The body doesn't work that way.
 
LunaHotel said:
Sounds especially good for strength. How about natural size gains though? Do some of you guys have info on that?
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Well i know DC himself is a HUGE cat. The program is linked from Ironaddicts site if anyone is interested. Just look at the "cycles for pennies" article on ironaddicts web site. Ironaddict recommends similar a training style.
 
I have been doing two body parts a day, 8-10 sets per major bodypart, 6-9 sets for small things like Bis and tris. So anywhere from 14-19 total sets, depending on how I feel. My rep range is usually between 8 and 15. How does this sound?
 
Bobo said:
Its called increasing TUT and using ratios that emphasize slow eccentric actions. Its nothing new and will have a postive effect on myofibrillar hypertrophy. What is funny is seeing people think you can have 2 types of responses by having a explosive concentric action and slow eccetric action. The body doesn't work that way.
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Wouldn't a fast concentric be better for strength and slow eccentric,being more TUT,be better for size?
 
Yes, you are correct but some believe you can combine those and get the benefits of both stimulus and it doesn't work like that. Doing the slow eccentric will supercede any fast explsoive concentric movement (in terms of strenght stimulus) because the overall TUT is increased. Therefore the response to that exercise BECAUSE of the increased in TUT will result predominantly in a growth stimulus. You will get stronger form the simple fact that muscle thickness is increased but its not anything like pure strenght training.
 
got ya.... i've been wanting to ask you what you thought about power factor training,if i didn't already ask. I don't mean partial reps just the amount of work done in a given time. Basically the power factor and power index. For example: 1 guy benches 300lbs for 8 reps and another guy benches 200lbs for 13 reps. Which one is better for size? ... or does that basically fall under TUT? Is it true that one needs at least 50% weight or more of their 1 rep max in order to recruit all muscle fiber types and does that mean you don't need to go heavier in order to increase muscle size?
 
The guy benching for 8 reos will have more myofibrillar hypertrophy while the guy who uses 13 reps will incorporate more sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. If you are looking for pure musce growth, the 8 rep one is better.

TUT will stimulate a growth response but the more reps and lighter weight the less change if increasing muscle thickness. It is still a growth response for its more for increasing nutrient capacity than increasing fiber thickness.
 
I can't think right now but i was going to mention if it was more sarcoplasmic.. doing the 13 reps. Where did you learn all this? I mean where did you learn the things you know about BBing and diet? ... If i were to work for increasing only sarcoplasmic hypertrophy i would also get an increase in myofibrillar hypertrophy right and increase in strength from muscle size and uptake of more nutrients? I like drop sets alot and i want to stick with those. Supersets too. i don't want much weight just endurance stamina..... mostly a solid gain. i gotta go thanks for the info. i appreciate it
 
I learned it in school and my own experience. If you trained for pure sarcoplasmic hypertrophy then myofibrillar hypertrophy would be minimal and strenght increase (neural stimulation) would be minimal as well. IF you want both then follow a program that utilized periodiziation.
 
For those who are in search of getting bigger and bigger, bobo is right, it's all about periodization. I suggest you to read about Lyle McDonald - Periodization for bodybuilders Part I , II , III. A lot of my question has been answered through this article, and I correct my training program yesterday. After reading his article, I did understand why last year I have made good progress with the strength issue but didnt put as much mass as I wanted to.
 
The fastest strength increase for me was while using a heavy duty type program. My rep range was between 12-15 with only 4 sets per week for each muscle. I was also using machines and no free weights because i was training along taking each set to failure. Do you think that strength increase was do to sarcoplasmic hyertrophy or increased nerve function because i didn't gain any size? I wasn't checking strength increases but when a friend of mine was benching and asked me for help,i thought i'd see what my max was and i was surprised to see my bench jump 30lbs in just a few weeks. I was natural at that time and was no where close to my max muscular weight. I wasn't training to failure before the HD workout and i thought it was just the increased intensity that did it...... If two guys were to train with reps ranges from 15-20 but only one guy took his sets to failure,what would be the outcome as far as results?
 
I think you didnt increase in mass with your only 4 sets per muscle 15-20 reps because the total time under tension and isnt high enough to promote muscle growth. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is more gear for fatigue, so you need to do a high total work (law of physic).

I could be wrong, but only 4 sets for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy isnt enough.
 
Chunky said:
I think you didnt increase in mass with your only 4 sets per muscle 15-20 reps because the total time under tension and isnt high enough to promote muscle growth. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is more gear for fatigue, so you need to do a high total work (law of physic).

I could be wrong, but only 4 sets for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy isnt enough.
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So,my guess is that the increased strength came from increase nerve function because each set was taken to failure. I don't mind that. All i want is about 10-15 more lbs of muscle and functional strength for every day activities(job mostly).
 
My advice would be to make a training program with periodization. I dont know if its in this thread that I put the reference of Lyle McDonald article, but take a good read at it :

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I rearrange my program, and since then, I gain about 4 lbs of muscle without an once of my stomach. It doesnt mean a lot, but since I did the pretty same thing all past year (or about the same), I wish some change because I didnt gain as much mass as I wanted, but now Im confident that I will be successful.
 
Chunky said:
My advice would be to make a training program with periodization. I dont know if its in this thread that I put the reference of Lyle McDonald article, but take a good read at it :

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I rearrange my program, and since then, I gain about 4 lbs of muscle without an once of my stomach. It doesnt mean a lot, but since I did the pretty same thing all past year (or about the same), I wish some change because I didnt gain as much mass as I wanted, but now Im confident that I will be successful.
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Yeah,John Parrillo recommened starting off training like a power lifter does and ending with training the way a BBer does..... Tom PLatz recommened Micro periodization all squeezzed into 1 week intervals.... I change my workout probably more than anyone here mainly because i get bored very fast :-) I'm going to stick with reps above 12 right now,take each set close to failure,and shorten my rest periods alot. I think that will get me what i'm looking for right now. I'll see where i'm going to go from there.
 
Manwhore said:
Yeah,John Parrillo recommened starting off training like a power lifter does and ending with training the way a BBer does..... Tom PLatz recommened Micro periodization all squeezzed into 1 week intervals.... I change my workout probably more than anyone here mainly because i get bored very fast :-) I'm going to stick with reps above 12 right now,take each set close to failure,and shorten my rest periods alot. I think that will get me what i'm looking for right now. I'll see where i'm going to go from there.
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Yes, sir... That shortened rest will cause a good deal of GH release. If you combine that with high-GI carbs IMMEDIATELY post-workout, you'll get insulin right when your GH is high, which, of course, as everyone knows, will let your liver turn your GH into all-precious IGF-1.

That's the key, IMO.
 
LunaHotel said:
Yes, sir... That shortened rest will cause a good deal of GH release. If you combine that with high-GI carbs IMMEDIATELY post-workout, you'll get insulin right when your GH is high, which, of course, as everyone knows, will let your liver turn your GH into all-precious IGF-1.

That's the key, IMO.
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Well,since the baby,the only rest i've been short on is my nights rest :-) He's starting to sleep more at night,so i'm thinking of starting a workout again. Right now i'm thinking of sticking with Mentzers HD. Who knows what i'll want to do next week :-) As long as i start some kind of workout,i'll feel much better. I have a pretty healthy diet but my belly isn't looking too good these days.
 
wardog said:
One add on I have found helping my gains is the use of static holds. After your last set, just hold the weight at about the halfway position as long as you can. It hurts, and give a very deep soreness. I try to shoot for 30 seconds to a minute with each static hold.
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I'm not sure static holds are always a good idea, or should I say, they might be a complete waste of time. If you're doing skull crushers for example, when you are at the finished position the wieght is being held mostly by bone on bone contact. Perhaps something with constant tension this would be effective, but not for everything.
 
skoal said:
I'm not sure static holds are always a good idea, or should I say, they might be a complete waste of time. If you're doing skull crushers for example, when you are at the finished position the wieght is being held mostly by bone on bone contact. Perhaps something with constant tension this would be effective, but not for everything.
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yep it's definately only for "certain" exercises. static holds on wide grip lat pulldowns have done wonders for me, also, any good formed db press, bb curls, military, and there are others. it definately has its place!
 
skoal said:
I'm not sure static holds are always a good idea, or should I say, they might be a complete waste of time. If you're doing skull crushers for example, when you are at the finished position the wieght is being held mostly by bone on bone contact. Perhaps something with constant tension this would be effective, but not for everything.
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Well a static at the complete top for any pressing movement would be useless. The same goes for squats, leg presses, etc. That's not how statics are done though. Done correctly you would unlock the associated joint therefore forcing the muscles to hold the weight. Try skull crushers at the upper 2/3 of the movement with loads of weight on and I assure you that you will feel differently. :D
 
The best thing I ever used for pure mass was a workout system by Leo Costa called Big Beyond Belief. I'm sure a few of you have heard of it. This came out almost 10 years ago.
 
It's true, that program kicked serious ass, including MINE. Hey did you do the 2x a day, 6 days a week one? It is SICK.
 
andro69 said:
The best thing I ever used for pure mass was a workout system by Leo Costa called Big Beyond Belief. I'm sure a few of you have heard of it. This came out almost 10 years ago.
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You wouldn't happen to have a pdf version of that kicking around would you? I remember the program being in the mags years ago but it seemed to have died off rather quickly.
 
Gethuge said:
You wouldn't happen to have a pdf version of that kicking around would you? I remember the program being in the mags years ago but it seemed to have died off rather quickly.
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Sorry, wish I did. I haven't seen the book in like 5 years so I couldn't give an accurate description of it.
 
The way I remember it, there was a lot of "recall" work. That is, say on day 1 you do legs, then on day 2 you have a few sets of legs, and on day 3 also. None on day 4. But it was way more complicated that that. Loved it. Would love to do it again for a bulking cycle in the future.
 
andro69 said:
Sorry, wish I did. I haven't seen the book in like 5 years so I couldn't give an accurate description of it.
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I know this is alot to ask you to do but could you describe the 4 day program to the best of your memory?
 
Gethuge said:
I know this is alot to ask you to do but could you describe the 4 day program to the best of your memory?
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From what I can remember it was something like this-

Day1-3 sets, 13-15 reps, 90 sec between sets, legs, back, biceps
Day2-same as above but chest, delts, tris
Day3-3 sets thighs, back, chest. 2 sets delts, bi's, tri's, 10-12 reps 120 sec between sets.
Day4-same sets as day 3 but reps are 5-7 and 3 minutes rest between sets.

Calves and abs were somewhere in there but can't remember where. I'm sure this isn't accurate, just what I vaguely remember.
 
For me it really depends on the muscle group. My bi's respond best with 8-12, my tris between 4-8, chest is pretty much anything under 10, hams 2-8... It really is all over the place. I don't think one can say 'oh this rep range is the best' becuase each muscle responds slightly differently in my experience.
 
I've always mixed it up 6 weeks heavy low reps then 6 weeks supersets 6 weeks of medium reps heavy weights more rest the 6 weeks max reps medium weight anything up to 100 rep sets on legs. BIOHAZARD method kill. I agree with the above about negatives really work but have to recover 100% after.
 
i split mine up. for 6 weeks i'll do 5 sets of 20 reps for each exercise, and then 6 weeks of 3-4 sets of 8 reps. Using this combo, I've grown in size and strength better than I have with anything else. Experimentation is key.
 
I definately gotta say that the best mass building lifting program is GVT training. Look at Charles Poliquin's article on bb.com I found it to be pretty good and I gained a good amount of mass on it.
However I gained pretty much no strength, but that may not be a problem for you.
 
I dont overanalyze it.

I use heavy weights... keep my sets between 4-8 per bodypart.

Reps between 4-10...

Going to failure, beyond failure or within one rep.

Bodyparts between 1-2 times per week or so.
 
I've always found that a set rep range, and trying to reach positive failure within that range, works best for me. Right now for most of my lifts my rep range is 6-8. I'm usually trying to hit 6-7, but the rule goes, if I can do more than 8 reps, I add weight, and if I can't do at least 6 reps, I reduce the weight. When I think I'm ready, I'll add weight the next week. As long as my diet is in order, I see pretty good results with this. As far as rest periods, they probably average 2-3 minutes depending on what lift I'm doing. I take about 3 minute breaks when I'm doing really heavy lifts.
 
For myself when strength goes up - I grow. Simple as that. These days a lot of well known trainers really put emphasis on form over weight, not a balance between the two. Guys like Charles Glass, Milos Sarcev are just a couple but the fact is to get big you need to move around some heavy weight. You don't see the pros squatting 225 lbs doing 3 second negatives, you see them move heavy weights with a relatively fast cadence. Heavy weight is ultimately the best way to persuade muscle to grow. Keeping good form is a necessity, but I see some vids of massive guys doing side raises with 20lbs DB saying form is everything, you don't need heavy weights.... bullshit.. they didn't get to looking like that with ****ing 20lbs DBs. That's my 2 cents on it anyway. You can still lift heavy weight and keep good form am I not saying forfeit form for weight at all.


the main focus of ANY program should be adding weight to all lifts.
 
For example last workout i did bench and did 10 reps( i didn't want to decrease weight so i could do more reps) then 2 minute rest then 4 reps then 3 reps then 3 reps so as you can see i need to start much higher for some excercises(over 12 on first set).
you and I seem to have the same problem, I think it is more a muscle endurance issue. Today I did chest, and I did a warm up set of 15 reps with 75lbs DB, then I did 8 with 105, then I did 115 for 5 (3 sets). Then I went to do incline DB, and could not even do 1 rep with 90lbs,and its not that it was too heavy, my muscles were tired. So for the rest of the day, I kept the weight low, real low, and did high reps of sets of 15 with 90 sec rest. I figured I should work on my muscle emdurance then work my way back up. I plan to do this for about three weeks to see how it goes.
 
What has come best to my benifit, is muscle confusion, not sticking to a set rep amount for too long, changing excersizes in my workouts constantly, and working till failure on all sets, on average, my workouts for muscle groups change every week, rep ranges every 3 weeks, and intensity levels every 4-5 weeks.
 
I personally use 8-12 reps for about 4 sets per exercise 4-6 exercises per body part. with 1-3 minutes between sets last set to complete muscular failure, BUT...strength is always a factor
 
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