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What do you guys make of this?

LakeMountD

LakeMountD

Doctor Science
Does this not seem like an extremely low version of igf? I mean heck it seems almost pointless to run only 11mcg from what I have been readin about other people taking.. but hell what do i know!

(8)EFFICTIVE DOSAGES OF IGF-1
Dosages in the range of 10 to 20 micrograms per day(taken 10 to 15 minuters after training) are quite effective for building and repairing muscle tissue.
More importantly,these moderate dosages (by some peoples estimation)
stimulate muscle growth yet escape rapid "downregulation" of the all important IGF-1 receptors.
Without receptors to recognize the IGF-1,it doesnt matter how much you inject.
NOTHING will happen.
As dosages climb to over 50 micrograms per day,receptor downgrade increases exponentially and,from what I've observed among bodybuilders,muscle gains come to a screeching hault.

Bodybuilders will have the most sucess with IGF-1 if they follow the protocol I outlined below. REMEMBER, more isn't always better.

11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 1) 333 micrograms

2 weeks OFF

11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 2)** 333 micrograms

2 weeks OFF

11 micrograms per day for 30 days (cycle 3)** 333 micrograms

8 weeks OFF


** The second and third cycles of IGF-1 treatment require that the two Frozen 1cc insulin syringes be defrosted(only defrost one per cycle).
 
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Doesnt seem good at all, especially the last part. It says to dilute it even further with BW. Wouldnt this basically destroy the IGF-1?
 
Sorry I am not referring to that. I am more referring to the dosage scheme. THe only problem I can see with that dosage scheme would be peptide damage. Seems to me trying to get 11mcg or close to it would mean that you have completely undamaged peptide chains and that is damn near impossible. Even the shaking of the bottle could cause it to break some chains.
 
Yeah, I agree that it would be pretty f-ing difficult to get 11mcgs without damaging the cell. And forget about doing any bi-lateral injections!!
 
The only different thing I would do here is wait to add the BW. The more I research IGF the more I see how this plan could work. You might not be able to do any bilateral injections in the same day but it would be beneficial to do one side one day and the other side another day of your lagging body part. Remember, IGF, is still overall systemic. The reason I am starting to like the way this dosage scheme looks is because it seems like the most logical. Think about it. People who use GH for long periods of time have outstanding gains with it. In fact if you dont use it for 5 or more months you probably aren't going to see much of a gain at all. One of the biggest contributing factors to this is the fact that GH stimulates the release of IGF into the blood stream. I can't comment on how much it releases but I am sure it isn't very much, probably equivalent to ~2-5 mcg. The fact that you are only doing 10mcg ED seems to further prevent downregulation on the same scale that hGH and the stimulation of release of IGF doesn't downregulate IGF receptors. Plus you are able to run a greater amount of cycles with one bottle.

I will reiterrate this fact once again, we need to stop looking for miracle drugs that work overnight, i.e. dosing 80mcg daily of IGF and complaining we didnt see great results from it, and starting thinking smarter on how to use drugs that truly are miracle drugs in a way b ut don't work OVERNIGHT.
 
LakeMountD said:
The only different thing I would do here is wait to add the BW. .
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However the math would be thrown off by a long shot if you did not recon. the IGF/AA mix with BW, and it would be nearly impossible to draw out 11mcg at a time.

Say the AA/IGF mixture in the vial you will use for the month is 1ml and it has 333mcg of IGF.

In order to draw out 11mcg you would need to draw out .003 of a ml... meaning .3 of an iu... then draw BW as necessary. This would be very hard to do and the other way may not be so great because the chance of the bw degrading the igf. So until then we need to be creative.
 
dertynasty said:
However the math would be thrown off by a long shot if you did not recon. the IGF/AA mix with BW, and it would be nearly impossible to draw out 11mcg at a time.

Say the AA/IGF mixture in the vial you will use for the month is 1ml and it has 333mcg of IGF.

In order to draw out 11mcg you would need to draw out .003 of a ml... meaning .3 of an iu... then draw BW as necessary. This would be very hard to do and the other way may not be so great because the chance of the bw degrading the igf. So until then we need to be creative.
Click to expand...


No no no, 1 iu = 10mcg. And no it wouldn't throw the math off. All you have to do is add more AA not BW.
 
LakeMountD said:
No no no, 1 iu = 10mcg. And no it wouldn't throw the math off. All you have to do is add more AA not BW.
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no 1 iu = 10mcg if the if it was reconstituted with the other 2 ml's of BW. If you look it says that the igf in the aa should be 1ml with 333mcgs of IGF, Then u add the BW to make it 3ml's with 330mcg which is 11mcg/1iu.
 
dertynasty said:
no 1 iu = 10mcg if the if it was reconstituted with the other 2 ml's of BW. If you look it says that the igf in the aa should be 1ml with 333mcgs of IGF, Then u add the BW to make it 3ml's with 330mcg which is 11mcg/1iu.
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Bro trust me you are very backwards right now. I can assure you that if you put 1 mL of AA with 1mg of igf the result would be 1 iu= 10mcg but you dont have to believe me if you dont want to.
 
LakemountD is right. 1ml/1000mcg, 1ml/100 gradiation/iu ticks

therefore 1 "tick", (gradiation, or iu mark on a slin pin) = 10mcg if you have the lr3 at 1000mcg per ml... which is the standardized concentration.

I wouldn't run such a low dose as the article suggests, but different strokes for different meatheads.
 
Im sorry maybe you both didnt understand what i was saying and i shouldnt have used the word IU it was late at night. However Once again i will make this as clear as i possibly can for you and i will do it in caps so that maybe it sinks in a little bit more :). But 1st maybe i should post the rest of the article that lake left out.

(1)-STORAGE OF IGF-1(prior to mixing)
lyophilized (dry) IGF-1is stable at room temperture for three weeks;however,it should be stored below -18 degrees celsius (in the freezer section).

(2)WEIGHT OF IGF-1
1 milligram (mg) IGF-1 = 1,000 mcg (micrograms) IGF-1 (dry weight- before mixing).

(3) WHAT TO MIX THE IGF-1 WITH
when reconstituting,its important to remember IGF-1 can get "stuck" in the grooves of the glass bottle it comes packaged in. while glass appears smooth to the naked eye, under a microscope, it's a convoluted landscape of grooves and hidden recesses.
By mixing the lyophilized IGF-1 with an "acid water" (e.g., 10mM HCL -very dilute hydochloric acid), the IGF-1 molecules are efficiently detached from the glass and solubilized in the mixture. Any online "compounding" laboratory could mix up a 10mM HCL solution. likewise, any intro chemistry student should be able to do the same.
If a reliable source of "acid water" can't be located, mix your IGF-1 powder with BACTERIOSTATIC WATER - you'll lose, at worst, 10 percent of the IGF-1 solution.

(4) ADDING THE ACID WATER
For the purposes of mathematical ease, I suggest mixing the dry 1 milligram (1,000 microgram) IGF-1 with 3ml (or 3cc) of the "acid water" mixture.

(5) PRESERVATION OF THE IGF-1
Next,using a 1cc insulin syringe,draw out 1cc out of the bottle containing the 3cc acid water/IGF-1 mixture.In a seperate 1cc insulin syringe,draw up another 1cc of the solution.Freeze these two loaded insulin syringes.They will be utilized at a later date.

NOTE:Freezing can safely and effectively preserve IGF-1(even after its been mixed)

(6)THE CORRECT DILUTION
To the remaining 1cc of IGF-1 thats left in the glass bottle,add 2cc of bacteriostatic water.This will return the total volume back up to 3cc.

(7)THE MATHEMATICS
(A)The original concentration of the IGF-1 solution was 1mg(1000 micrograms)
IGF-1 in 3cc of water.

(B)Each 1cc that was removed,then,contained approximately 333 micrograms IGF-1 per 1cc.

1,000 micrograms/3cc = 333 micrograms per 1cc

©The 1cc that was left in the bottle,then,also contains 333 micrograms of IGF-1.

(D)Next,we added 2cc of bacteriostatic water to the bottle and brought the volume back up to 3cc.The difference is we now have 333 micrograms in 3cc of water (instead of in 1cc)

(E)To determine how much IGF-1 is in 1cc,you must divide by three.

333 micrograms/3cc=111 micrograms per 1cc

(F)To determine how much IGF-1 is in .10cc (or 1/10thcc) we do the following.

111 micrograms/10=11micrograms per .10cc


SO WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR 1ML OF RECONSTITUTED IGF (RECON W/ AA) THAT ONE ML HAS 333MCG OF IGF.

THE NEXT STEP IS TO ADD 2 MORE ML OF BW SO THAT IT IS THEN 3ML'S @ 333MCG OF IGF.

THIS MEANS THAT FOR EVERY .10 CC OR .10ML THERE IS 11 MCG OF IGF.

IF IT WAS NOT RECON WITH BW IT WOULD REMAIN AT 1ML @ 333MCG.

IN ORDER TO DRAW OUT 11MCG OUT OF THIS MIXTURE YOU WOULD NEED TO DRAW OUT .033 ML.... IF YOU WANTED 10MCG DRAW .03ML..

GETTING THE EXACT DOSAGE YOU ARE LOOKING FOR WOULD BE EXTREMELY HARD THIS WAY, HOWEVER ADDING THE BW TO YOUR IGF SOLUTION AND LETTING IT SIT FOR A MONTH WHILE YOU USE IT IS POTENTIALY DEGRADING TO THE PEPTIDE IT SELF. THIS IS WHAT WE NEED AN ANSWER ON.

I HOPE I MADE THIS CLEAR HOMMIES :):trout:
 
God damn it, don't add BW. Why even RISK degrading the peptide?

And if you want accurate dosing, use a SLIN PIN, instead of figuring it out with CC's. I know, I know, .10cc is 1 grad... but let's just call it a grad.

That way you read the GRADIATIONS CORRECTLY (opposed to ml's or cc's), and if your MATH is CORRECT, you will have NOTHING TO FEAR IN REGARDS TO DOSING.

a box 3/10 SLIN PINS, EXTRA AA, and 1mg of lr3IGF-1 is all you need.

Dilute the IGF with AA and ONLY AA.

did the caps work bro? :)
;)
 
Ubiquitous said:
God damn it, don't add BW. Why even RISK degrading the peptide?

And if you want accurate dosing, use a SLIN PIN, instead of figuring it out with CC's. I know, I know, .10cc is 1 grad... but let's just call it a grad.

That way you read the GRADIATIONS CORRECTLY (opposed to ml's or cc's), and if your MATH is CORRECT, you will have NOTHING TO FEAR IN REGARDS TO DOSING.

a box 3/10 SLIN PINS, EXTRA AA, and 1mg of lr3IGF-1 is all you need.

Dilute the IGF with AA and ONLY AA.

did the caps work bro? :)
;)
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Completely agreed.

I also think his numbers on the life expectancy of the IGF at room temperature when lypholized is wrong. 3 weeks at room temperature? You are telling me that if a hospital needed this stuff it would have to be synthesized, shipped, and administered within 3 weeks? haha riiiight. :yawn:
 
Don't forget to account for the density of IGF when figuring out the correct concentration...since we are getting all technical and what not.
:)
 
Ubiquitous said:
God damn it, don't add BW. Why even RISK degrading the peptide?

And if you want accurate dosing, use a SLIN PIN, instead of figuring it out with CC's. I know, I know, .10cc is 1 grad... but let's just call it a grad.

That way you read the GRADIATIONS CORRECTLY (opposed to ml's or cc's), and if your MATH is CORRECT, you will have NOTHING TO FEAR IN REGARDS TO DOSING.

a box 3/10 SLIN PINS, EXTRA AA, and 1mg of lr3IGF-1 is all you need.

Dilute the IGF with AA and ONLY AA.

did the caps work bro? :)
;)
Click to expand...
Whether i call it .10 cc or a Grad is really irrelavant, as they both are accounting for the same thing.

If you are trying to say to just add 2 more ml's of AA to the 1ML of AA/IGF mixture instead of adding BW, please be clear.

If you are saying to just draw out of the AA/IGF mixture that is 1ml and add bw after into the pin.... all i can say is have fun with that getting the right measurements of igf.
 
dertynasty said:
If you are trying to say to just add 2 more ml's of AA to the 1ML of AA/IGF mixture instead of adding BW, please be clear.
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I am saying only add AA... and I was VERY CLEAR in this regard... :blink:


I've ran 5mg's of IGF so far. The EASIEST way I have found is to just add an extra ml of 10mM Acetic Acid to the 1ml/1000mcg standardized solution. ... I'll slow down a bit...

now I have 1mg of IGF in 2ml of Acetic Acid....

.. so 500mcg/ml is the concentration acheived...1 grad/.01cc/tick is 5mcg.

Then, get this... I take TWO 3/10 slin pins (3/10 because the gradations are easier to read) and draw it up to the 4th grad/tick/iu mark on EACH.. .resulting in 20mcg in either slin pin. That way I can shoot 40mcg bilaterally. And here's the kicker... it's actually very accurate as it's a SLIN PIN. No need to make it any more complicated bro... waste is nonexistant, or minimal if any.. as there is zero dead space in the barrel of slin pins... as they need to be accurate seeing as they are designed for insulin use.

Oh, and it's totally relevant to use grad instead of 0.01 cc, as we are trying to SIMPLIFY this -- 0.01cc insinuates you are using a 3cc barrel.... at least to me it does... which would cause you a world of problems trying to dose accurately.

and I have to clarify, previously I said 0.10cc was a grad, and it's not----0.01cc is a grad.

god I've talked this **** to death. I'm done. good luck.
 
Ubiquitous said:
I am saying only add AA... and I was VERY CLEAR in this regard... :blink:


I've ran 5mg's of IGF so far. The EASIEST way I have found is to just add an extra ml of 10mM Acetic Acid to the 1ml/1000mcg standardized solution. ... I'll slow down a bit...

now I have 1mg of IGF in 2ml of Acetic Acid....

.. so 500mcg/ml is the concentration acheived...1 grad/.01cc/tick is 5mcg.

Then, get this... I take TWO 3/10 slin pins (3/10 because the gradations are easier to read) and draw it up to the 4th grad/tick/iu mark on EACH.. .resulting in 20mcg in either slin pin. That way I can shoot 40mcg bilaterally. And here's the kicker... it's actually very accurate as it's a SLIN PIN. No need to make it any more complicated bro... waste is nonexistant, or minimal if any.. as there is zero dead space in the barrel of slin pins... as they need to be accurate seeing as they are designed for insulin use.

Oh, and it's totally relevant to use grad instead of 0.01 cc, as we are trying to SIMPLIFY this -- 0.01cc insinuates you are using a 3cc barrel.... at least to me it does... which would cause you a world of problems trying to dose accurately.

and I have to clarify, previously I said 0.10cc was a grad, and it's not----0.01cc is a grad.

god I've talked this **** to death. I'm done. good luck.
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It cant be said any clearer. Lets get back to the subject of the thread tho haha since this is a pretty irrelavent topic and one that is basically self explanatory.

But yes adding extra AA is the easiest way to go then add your bw or sodium chloride water to the slin pin and shoot, there is very lil dead space as ubiquitous said in a slin pin, especially in a 3/8th inch slin pin that has only a 30iu syringe like the ones i have.
 
I was just saying that u would use .1CC if you had 3ml aa and 333mcg of igf in it.

I was never talking about .01 cc. We are on totally different levels and not even talkin about the same thing. Im refering to the article and you are referring you your own way of doing it. Your right lets drop it, its been beaten into the ground :yawn:
 
Palumbo has a very sound approach.

I've run similar protocols and feel that I got more out of the "slow drip" of IGF-1 LR3 over a 3 month period than I did a higher dose run of shorter duration.
 
Ubiquitous said:
wow I was a smart ass d1ck back in February 2006. :D I like.. I like.
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d!ck........yes,....smart,.......maybe :).........but i like the thread.....consider your body makes less than 1mcg a day.......10mcg's is a good amount imo!.....im doing around 15mcg now
 
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