What brand of phosphatic acid do you get?

ironkill

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I just ordered 3 tubs of fearns and two bottles of predator PA (bogo right one) and will use the combo of the two
 
sns8778

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Anything else to help with absorption? I think I read on here one time before that glycerol helped with PA?
We should have GlycerPump capsules back in stock next week so if anyone wanted to stack them together they could.
 
50Magnum

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any difference takin 3000mg of PA vs 1500mg? Also whats this **** Im hearing you can't take it with whey protein cause it inteferes with protein synthesis; it was shown to do this from a study on rats.
 
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sns8778

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any difference takin 3000mg of PA vs 1500mg? Also whats this **** Im hearing you can't take it with whey protein cause it inteferes with protein synthesis; it was shown to do this from a study on rats.
I'm not aware of any research being done to see if 3000 mg. would be better than 1500 mg. Keep in mind though that the real numbers there would be 1500 mg. active versus 750 mg. active.

I'd have to look into that about whey. That wouldn't make much sense at first glance.
 
50Magnum

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I'm not aware of any research being done to see if 3000 mg. would be better than 1500 mg. Keep in mind though that the real numbers there would be 1500 mg. active versus 750 mg. active.

I'd have to look into that about whey. That wouldn't make much sense at first glance.
yea there is a study on it that was posted a few years ago; you can look it up online. It doesnt make sense though why it would both cancel out protein synthesis.
 

Slims

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yea there is a study on it that was posted a few years ago; you can look it up online. It doesnt make sense though why it would both cancel out protein synthesis.
To my knowledge PA stimulates mTOR and mTOR increases protein synthesis, so surely whey protein would give mTOR the building blocks it needs to synthesize new muscle tissue.
I could however, be completely wrong in my thinking here.
 
sns8778

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yea there is a study on it that was posted a few years ago; you can look it up online. It doesnt make sense though why it would both cancel out protein synthesis.
Everything I've read about it shows that it would help. I'll check it out over the weekend.

To my knowledge PA stimulates mTOR and mTOR increases protein synthesis, so surely whey protein would give mTOR the building blocks it needs to synthesize new muscle tissue.
I could however, be completely wrong in my thinking here.
I agree. Everything I've read shows it will help protein and amino acid synthesis.

I saw on Redcons label they even suggest taking it with protein.
 
RIPDanDuchaine

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Redcon1 11-bravo
I found it on PricePlow for $40.


The problem with Redcon's is that the supplement facts on their website don't match their supplement facts on Amazon.

On their website, the supplement facts say that the serving size is 2 capsules and that there are 30 servings per bottle and says that there is 750 mg. Mediator 50P (std. to Phosphatidic Acid) which by label law would be saying 375 mg. But then the suggested use says to take 1 serving (4 capsules) per day. So the serving size on their directions doesn't match the supplement facts.

Then if you go to Amazon, their supplement facts say that the serving size is 4 capsules and there there are 30 servings per container and that there is 750 mg. Mediator PA (Phosphatidic Acid) which could mean active. It seems like the suggested use on their site actually matches the one on Amazon.

This is likely not intentional on their part. One or the other is likely a new or old version or a typo. Even the largest of companies can overlook things or make mistakes.

But for right now, it makes it to where you don't know if its 750 mg. active or total material.
That's the kind of situation I would directly contact Redcon about as well as the seller on Amazon. It could be a different formulation, to data entry errors, to a number of things. Contact the Redcon and link them to the Amazon seller and see if what they have to say about it.

So sunflower lecithin same PA content? Maybe same results but better on my stomach?
No, according to now it's around 600mg of PA in 10g of lecithin powder, so it's incredibly low. That was both for soy and sunflower. I'm still curious how PricePlow has a lecithin product that claims to have 1200mg of PA in it. I'm going to email the company and ask if they standardize for it or if they have CoA's for their products and etc.


EDIT: After looking at the image for the ingredients, I saw that it was 1200mg per 15g of lecithin. That somewhat tracks since NOW says they get 600mg out of 10mg of lecithin. So, they could just be standardizing for it or have more or just be lying on the label.

I've read it was possibly less BUT also lecithin companies don't generally test the amount in their products bc its not one of the active constituents that they are generally trying to supply people with.
Yeah, this seems to be the case. They standardize their lecithin for phosphatidylserine, phosphatidylcholine, and phosphatidylinositol for brain health.

Anything else to help with absorption? I think I read on here one time before that glycerol helped with PA?
PA is fat soluble so you could take it with a teaspoon of flax seed oil or something like NOW Omega 3-6-9.

yea there is a study on it that was posted a few years ago; you can look it up online. It doesnt make sense though why it would both cancel out protein synthesis.
Can you provide a link or the name of the study?

Everything I've read about it shows that it would help. I'll check it out over the weekend.



I agree. Everything I've read shows it will help protein and amino acid synthesis.

I saw on Redcons label they even suggest taking it with protein.
Yeah, everything I've read indicated it improve protein synthesis and not cause any catabolic (muscle wasting) effects.

You could do it like the Mediator patent and take it with creatine and protein. Those are the conditions they studied it under for the patent, and although patents aren't peer reviewed studies, their results showed very positive anabolic effects.
 
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muscleupcrohn

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1500 mg. Mediator/750 mg. Phosphatidic Acid

Astragin makes sense for several reasons with it.

I like Bioperine and it may look good on a label, but do you think it would actually help with Phosphatidic Acid? I can see how it would with Apigenin. But unfortunately, 300 mg. Apigenin would raise the actual cost to make by almost 4.00 per bottle.

I think ActiGin would have good potential with it myself.
I can't stand when
I found it on PricePlow for $40.




That's the kind of situation I would directly contact Redcon about as well as the seller on Amazon. It could be a different formulation, to data entry errors, to a number of things. Contact the Redcon and link them to the Amazon seller and see if what they have to say about it.



No, according to now it's around 600mg of PA in 10g of lecithin powder, so it's incredibly low. That was both for soy and sunflower. I'm still curious how PricePlow has a lecithin product that claims to have 1200mg of PA in it. I'm going to email the company and ask if they standardize for it or if they have CoA's for their products and etc.




Yeah, this seems to be the case. They standardize their lecithin for phosphatidylserine, phosphatidylcholine, and phosphatidylinositol for brain health.



PA is fat soluble so you could take it with a teaspoon of flax seed oil or something like NOW Omega 3-6-9.



Can you provide a link or the name of the study?



Yeah, everything I've read indicated it improve protein synthesis and not cause any catabolic (muscle wasting) effects.

You could do it like the Mediator patent and take it with creatine and protein. Those are the conditions they studied it under for the patent, and although patents aren't peer reviewed studies, their results showed very positive anabolic effects.
Dude, PLEASE go read the HUGE thread I linked up, or at least the post where I quoted from some old threads. I discuss the standardization of soy lecithin granules from multiple sources. In short, Fearn is probably 4-7% PA, just like other standard soy lecithin granules are. Also, many, probably even most (?) lecithin granules have trivial amounts of PS compared to what you'd get from actual, dedicated PS supplements.

I'm also pretty sure at least a few human studies dosed it split between pre and post workout on workout days, and split with meals on the rest days?
 
RIPDanDuchaine

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Dude, PLEASE go read the HUGE thread I linked up, or at least the post where I quoted from some old threads. I discuss the standardization of soy lecithin granules from multiple sources. In short, Fearn is probably 4-7% PA, just like other standard soy lecithin granules are. Also, many, probably even most (?) lecithin granules have trivial amounts of PS compared to what you'd get from actual, dedicated PS supplements.
I actually edited my post before you posted yours and updated it and said it was either legit since... well you can read it above under the edit. But, I think it would be interesting if Fearn provided a CoA for their product. It might be worth asking if anyone is interested in me doggedly pursuing them to try and get it from them.
 
sns8778

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I can't stand when
I think that some of what you meant to type cut off above. Was curious to hear your thoughts but looked like it stopped mid sentence.
 
muscleupcrohn

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I actually edited my post before you posted yours and updated it and said it was either legit since... well you can read it above under the edit. But, I think it would be interesting if Fearn provided a CoA for their product. It might be worth asking if anyone is interested in me doggedly pursuing them to try and get it from them.
Dude, do you really think Fearn has some proprietary lecithin development or refinement system that's making it vastly different than every other lecithin on the market that has ranges that are fairly well established? Did you read my other post? There are many sources putting it typically at 4-8%. It works out nice. Aim for 750mg assuming the low end of 4%, and if it's actually 8%, you end up with the higher 1500mg dose of PA, which is great.
 
muscleupcrohn

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I think that some of what you meant to type cut off above. Was curious to hear your thoughts but looked like it stopped mid sentence.
I think that some of what you meant to type cut off above. Was curious to hear your thoughts but looked like it stopped mid sentence.
Haha, that it did. I meant I can't stand when companies just throw piperine in EVERYTHING at random. For one, it doesn't always improve the effectiveness of an ingredient. In fact, rodent research on rhodiola shows it can interfere with the effects at "normal" doses. Sometimes things have a non-linear dose-response curve that using the same standard dose and adding piperine doesn't work well for. Granted, PA is not one of those things with such a curve where more could be worse, so that's not a pressing concern. But I'm just picturing someone taking a pre-workout, an engergy supplement, and two daily ergogenic supplements, and they ALL have piperine. That can get to be a LOT of piperine if some use 10-20mg instead of just 5mg. But I'm ranting at this point, and I'm sure you already have a solid idea of not going crazy with overlapping ingredients that would prohibt products from being stacked well with each other.
 
sns8778

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I think its important to note that for the big general health companies, the idea of people exceeding their suggested dose to get athletic benefits would not be viewed as a good thing by them. I'm not saying whether to do it or not, I'm just pointing out that when asking them for information to keep that in mind. If you ask the question - what is your Phosphatidic Acid content, you may get an answer. If you ask it in such way as 'How much do I have to take to get 750 mg.?' - to them, that's a customer planning to exceed the recommended dosage which is not something they are going to view as a good thing or want anyone to do.
 
sns8778

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Haha, that it did. I meant I can't stand when companies just throw piperine in EVERYTHING at random. For one, it doesn't always improve the effectiveness of an ingredient. In fact, rodent research on rhodiola shows it can interfere with the effects at "normal" doses. Sometimes things have a non-linear dose-response curve that using the same standard dose and adding piperine doesn't work well for. Granted, PA is not one of those things with such a curve where more could be worse, so that's not a pressing concern. But I'm just picturing someone taking a pre-workout, an engergy supplement, and two daily ergogenic supplements, and they ALL have piperine. That can get to be a LOT of piperine if some use 10-20mg instead of just 5mg. But I'm ranting at this point, and I'm sure you already have a solid idea of not going crazy with overlapping ingredients that would prohibt products from being stacked well with each other.
I definitely see where you're coming from. I love Bioperine as an ingredient but try to only include it in formulas where it makes sense. Whereas some companies throw it in like everything bc a lot of people have the perception that it aids in the absorption of everything. And as we put out more and more Health Series products where it will help absorption with a lot of the ingredients, that is why you'll see us stay on the lower side of the dosing so that people can stack and use the products together without taking in a massive amount of it daily.
 
muscleupcrohn

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I think its important to note that for the big general health companies, the idea of people exceeding their suggested dose to get athletic benefits would not be viewed as a good thing by them. I'm not saying whether to do it or not, I'm just pointing out that when asking them for information to keep that in mind. If you ask the question - what is your Phosphatidic Acid content, you may get an answer. If you ask it in such way as 'How much do I have to take to get 750 mg.?' - to them, that's a customer planning to exceed the recommended dosage which is not something they are going to view as a good thing or want anyone to do.
Honestly, you don't have to even tell them why you're asking about PA. From what I've seen, a lot of them have general ranges of accepted content for these things, and it's just a spec sheet or CoA they can share. A lot of them are standardized for 97 or 98% phosphatides, so they do have to test for that to meet the standardization, so they'll often have an accepted range of things like PC, PA, PS, etc. They more than likely have a range for PA, not a minimum standardization, so if you ask how much you need to get 750mg, they may not even have a clean, easy answer. I agree with you that asking about the general ranges or standardization, perhaps of even more than just PA, is likely the best way to go about it.
 
RIPDanDuchaine

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Dude, do you really think Fearn has some proprietary lecithin development or refinement system that's making it vastly different than every other lecithin on the market that has ranges that are fairly well established? Did you read my other post? There are many sources putting it typically at 4-8%. It works out nice. Aim for 750mg assuming the low end of 4%, and if it's actually 8%, you end up with the higher 1500mg dose of PA, which is great.
Well, of course I don't. I don't really want to read the huge mega thread, even though I'm sure it would be super informative, I'm not the one who's talking PA at the end of the day.

But hey, you never know, maybe their get their soy from a little tropical island and it grows just right and has vastly higher amounts of PA than other sources. Right? ;)

So, all I'm suggesting is I email them and ask them for a CoA and batch # lab results and then we'll know if they say no, we don't provide that, they're full of shìt and we can put it to bed once and for all.
 
RIPDanDuchaine

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I think its important to note that for the big general health companies, the idea of people exceeding their suggested dose to get athletic benefits would not be viewed as a good thing by them. I'm not saying whether to do it or not, I'm just pointing out that when asking them for information to keep that in mind. If you ask the question - what is your Phosphatidic Acid content, you may get an answer. If you ask it in such way as 'How much do I have to take to get 750 mg.?' - to them, that's a customer planning to exceed the recommended dosage which is not something they are going to view as a good thing or want anyone to do.
I'm not sure I follow you here. So, you're suggesting asking them how much do I have to take to get 750mg and that would trick them into revealing their actual amounts?
 
muscleupcrohn

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Well, of course I don't. I don't really want to read the huge mega thread, even though I'm sure it would be super informative, I'm not the one who's talking PA at the end of the day.

But hey, you never know, maybe their get their soy from a little tropical island and it grows just right and has vastly higher amounts of PA than other sources. Right? ;)

So, all I'm suggesting is I email them and ask them for a CoA and batch # lab results and then we'll know if they say no, we don't provide that, they're full of shìt and we can put it to bed once and for all.
You're posting pretty long and detailed comments, often almost seeming to be lecturing other people who have already been down this road regarding PA, and supplements in general. If you want a more detailed story of PA, and all the various inquires and CoAs, well, you know where to find them now. I'm pretty sure someone has requested one from Fearn. I don't recall what the answer was, if there was one. But realistically, it's de-oiled soy lecithin granules standardized for 98% phosphatides. So those two things will be what makes it a "quality" lecithin product, and any de-oiled soy lecithin granules standardized for 97-98% phosphatides are going to be pretty similar, likely with any variations between batches being just as significant, if not more so, than differences between brands.

And I wouldn't say a high listed PA content on Fearn makes them "full of s**t." PA is really not viewed as a major player in lecithin granules for non-hardcore fitness/bodybuilding supplement users, and even among them, it's pretty niche. Phosphatide content, which it is standardized for, and PC are MUCH more commonly desired components, so a lot of the others probably just were viewed as naturally being there more than being actual selling points they intentionally listed high. IMO anyway.
 
sns8778

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I'm not sure I follow you here. So, you're suggesting asking them how much do I have to take to get 750mg and that would trick them into revealing their actual amounts?
My post wasn't directed at you. It was towards anyone thinking of contacting one of the larger general health companies to ask them.

I was saying that to anyone that contacts one of the larger general health companies asking about the Phosphatidic Acid content that it would likely be better if they asked it as a simple, general question and didn't go into detail. Because if one were to ask 'How much of your product do I need to take to get 750 mg. Phosphatidic Acid?', they are more likely to get ignored bc what the company hears then is that here is a person that is wanting to exceed the recommended dosage of our product so we aren't going to answer them. I wanted to explain this so that people may realize that if a company were to ignore them if they asked that way that it may not mean the company was being rude or didn't know the answer. It's that many companies have very strict rules about not replying to anyone they think plans on exceeding their suggested use due to insurance reasons.
 
sns8778

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And I wouldn't say a high listed PA content on Fearn makes them "full of s**t." PA is really not viewed as a major player in lecithin granules for non-hardcore fitness/bodybuilding supplement users, and even among them, it's pretty niche. Phosphatide content, which it is standardized for, and PC are MUCH more commonly desired components, so a lot of the others probably just were viewed as naturally being there more than being actual selling points they intentionally listed high. IMO anyway.
My comment has nothing to do with the back and forth part of the ongoing conversation. I just wanted to comment on the part I quoted above.

I think that you are correct. A COA is allowed to have an average content of things and its a good chance that hardly any company tests the actual amount of PA in their lecithin because it doesn't matter to them bc its not what 99.999% of people buy Lecithin for.

And this kind of plays into what I wrote above - its a very good chance that most of the lecithin companies don't even know about the bodybuilding niche that wants to high dose their product for PA content; and to the ones that do, its probably not met with a thank you for using our product type thought but a please don't exceed our recommended dose for any reason due to insurance reasons type thought haha.
 

mase1

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Bought a bottle of Redcon1 11 Bravo. Questioning myself if I made a mistake with their labeling? Picture says Mediator PA 750mg, hope that is the total. Not half of that as I believe it is 50% of normally 1500mg. Says 120 caps. Ahhhhhh! Lol.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Bought a bottle of Redcon1 11 Bravo. Questioning myself if I made a mistake with their labeling? Picture says Mediator PA 750mg, hope that is the total. Not half of that as I believe it is 50% of normally 1500mg. Says 120 caps. Ahhhhhh! Lol.
I'm seeing conflicting labels.



That second one is a nightmare to try to read, by you see it listed as "Mediator 50P (std. to 50% Phosphatidic Acid) at 750mg per 2 capsule serving, with 60 capsules (30 servings) per container, while the first one lists 750mg Mediator PA per 4 capsules, with no mention of 50% standardization, and still 30 servings, but now 4 capsules per serving. I honestly do not know exactly what to make of it, so will avoid trying to say anything for certain what's going on here.
 

mase1

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Yep, quick read thought ok should be good. Then thought redcon1 is in my thoughts is g2g, expensive but not sneaky. Maybe I'm the one that is dumb. Either way 120 caps 750mg PA. Thoughts 4 caps should equal around 1500mg and that makes sense to me. Lol.
 

mase1

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Possibly got an older/original bottle that was legit at 4 caps per 120, now a possible switch a roo and cut it in half with only 60 caps at half original content. I'm done trying to figure out, if anyone knows fill me in.
 
Beau

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Someone mentioned a product called "P(h)A - YWHTLB*" that is supposed to be really good, at least based on anecdotal feedback.
 
sns8778

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Bought a bottle of Redcon1 11 Bravo. Questioning myself if I made a mistake with their labeling? Picture says Mediator PA 750mg, hope that is the total. Not half of that as I believe it is 50% of normally 1500mg. Says 120 caps. Ahhhhhh! Lol.
Yep, quick read thought ok should be good. Then thought redcon1 is in my thoughts is g2g, expensive but not sneaky. Maybe I'm the one that is dumb. Either way 120 caps 750mg PA. Thoughts 4 caps should equal around 1500mg and that makes sense to me. Lol.
Possibly got an older/original bottle that was legit at 4 caps per 120, now a possible switch a roo and cut it in half with only 60 caps at half original content. I'm done trying to figure out, if anyone knows fill me in.
I had posted about that earlier in the thread. I copied and pasted it to here:

The problem with Redcon's is that the supplement facts on their website don't match their supplement facts on Amazon.

On their website, the supplement facts say that the serving size is 2 capsules and that there are 30 servings per bottle and says that there is 750 mg. Mediator 50P (std. to Phosphatidic Acid) which by label law would be saying 375 mg. But then the suggested use says to take 1 serving (4 capsules) per day. So the serving size on their directions doesn't match the supplement facts.

Then if you go to Amazon, their supplement facts say that the serving size is 4 capsules and there there are 30 servings per container and that there is 750 mg. Mediator PA (Phosphatidic Acid) which could mean active. It seems like the suggested use on their site actually matches the one on Amazon.

This is likely not intentional on their part. One or the other is likely a new or old version or a typo. Even the largest of companies can overlook things or make mistakes.

But for right now, it makes it to where you don't know if its 750 mg. active or total material.
 

ironkill

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Here is a link regarding protein and PA combined. They should be kept separate. I take PA an hour before my workout and consume EAA 15 min prior to the workout in order to work around this

 

Slims

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Here is a link regarding protein and PA combined. They should be kept separate. I take PA an hour before my workout and consume EAA 15 min prior to the workout in order to work around this

PA is usually taken about 30 minutes pre-workout, so lets say a person works out for 90 minutes and then has whey protein post workout, that's a two hour gap between the PA and they whey protein. Although I think that impacts would be negligible in trained adults, a two hour gap with a hightened metabolic rate during those two hours should offset any negative impacts of taking both.
 

ironkill

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PA is usually taken about 30 minutes pre-workout, so lets say a person works out for 90 minutes and then has whey protein post workout, that's a two hour gap between the PA and they whey protein. Although I think that impacts would be negligible in trained adults, a two hour gap with a hightened metabolic rate during those two hours should offset any negative impacts of taking both.
I would think so
 
Darkhorse192

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here is what I want to know...in 2015, everyone on this board had a big dick for PA and especially the Lecithin Granules. People didn't just love them, but they were considered a "staple" and guys were like "I am never going to stop using this supp." Then it completely dropped off the map and nobody was using it?

Why? Why did everyone flip on it? If it was so great, and cheap, and easy to use the Lecithin Granules and was considered a forever favorite for muscle building, why did everyone stop?
 

Slims

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here is what I want to know...in 2015, everyone on this board had a big dick for PA and especially the Lecithin Granules. People didn't just love them, but they were considered a "staple" and guys were like "I am never going to stop using this supp." Then it completely dropped off the map and nobody was using it?

Why? Why did everyone flip on it? If it was so great, and cheap, and easy to use the Lecithin Granules and was considered a forever favorite for muscle building, why did everyone stop?
I personally think that it's because...
1)Standardized PA supplements were priced too high for many people to even try.
2)The granules don't have as much of a noticeable effect as the standardized stuff.
3)People weren't taking it long enough, or properly, by which I mean taking it every day for more than 4/5 weeks, to see the real results.
4)The patent holders of standardized PA made it too expensive for most brands to market it in a product.
 
aaronuconn

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here is what I want to know...in 2015, everyone on this board had a big dick for PA and especially the Lecithin Granules. People didn't just love them, but they were considered a "staple" and guys were like "I am never going to stop using this supp." Then it completely dropped off the map and nobody was using it?

Why? Why did everyone flip on it? If it was so great, and cheap, and easy to use the Lecithin Granules and was considered a forever favorite for muscle building, why did everyone stop?
Seems this is the case with nearly every supplement
 
muscleupcrohn

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here is what I want to know...in 2015, everyone on this board had a big dick for PA and especially the Lecithin Granules. People didn't just love them, but they were considered a "staple" and guys were like "I am never going to stop using this supp." Then it completely dropped off the map and nobody was using it?

Why? Why did everyone flip on it? If it was so great, and cheap, and easy to use the Lecithin Granules and was considered a forever favorite for muscle building, why did everyone stop?
Sometimes it’s convenience. If you’re bringing a shaker bottle with power to drink on your way from work to the gym, adding lecithin granules made it a rather inconvenient ordeal compared to what would otherwise be an enjoyable drink. Any time I plan on actually bulking I still say it’s useful.
 

ironkill

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People always looking for the next new thing even if it lacks any credibility and legit compounds sometimes go by the wayside
 
sns8778

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Any powders that have PA or ARA?
Arachidonic Acid:
There are two standardizations of Arachidonic Acid - 10% and 40%. The 40% is an oil so it can only be used in softgels. The 10% is the only form that can be used in regular powder capsules or in a powder; so you have to take 4x as much to get the effective dose. If you're interested in Arachidonic Acid, X-Gels is a great option.

Phosphatidic Acid - the only powder I'm familiar with that has Mediator Phosphatidic Acid in it is by Genius Brand and the pricing is extremely high.
 

Neversummer

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Arachidonic Acid:
There are two standardizations of Arachidonic Acid - 10% and 40%. The 40% is an oil so it can only be used in softgels. The 10% is the only form that can be used in regular powder capsules or in a powder; so you have to take 4x as much to get the effective dose. If you're interested in Arachidonic Acid, X-Gels is a great option.

Phosphatidic Acid - the only powder I'm familiar with that has Mediator Phosphatidic Acid in it is by Genius Brand and the pricing is extremely high.
The genius brand PA was good and I got good results from it. It is very expensive and is never on sale when you compare to other brands that have holiday sales at 50% off. Genius brands PA does have a lot of trademarked ingredients which adds to the costs. The thing I didn’t like about it was it had a lot of preworkout ingredients but your not supposed to have whey protein around Within a few hours of taking PA. So it made timing of everything kind of a PITA
 
sns8778

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The genius brand PA was good and I got good results from it. It is very expensive and is never on sale when you compare to other brands that have holiday sales at 50% off. Genius brands PA does have a lot of trademarked ingredients which adds to the costs. The thing I didn’t like about it was it had a lot of preworkout ingredients but your not supposed to have whey protein around Within a few hours of taking PA. So it made timing of everything kind of a PITA
Genius Brand Muscle Builder is PEAK02, HMB, and Phosphatidic Acid if I remember correctly.
That would be a pricey product to make, but their markup is still huge on it. But their markup is on a lot of things so that they can afford their massive advertising budget. (And it only had 1.5 grams of HMB and 3 Grams per day is the studied dose that I'm aware of).

I'm hearing and seeing timing of dosage for Phosphatidic Acid all over the place. Some brands recommend it first thing in the morning with a meal or shake, some recommend it spaced out during day and others recommend it pre and post workout.
 

Slims

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I'm hearing and seeing timing of dosage for Phosphatidic Acid all over the place. Some brands recommend it first thing in the morning with a meal or shake, some recommend it spaced out during day and others recommend it pre and post workout.
Every time I've used PA I've taken the full dose about 30-45 minutes pre-workout and I've always had great results with it. I know it's not exactly evidence, but those are my personal experiences
 
sns8778

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Every time I've used PA I've taken the full dose about 30-45 minutes pre-workout and I've always had great results with it. I know it's not exactly evidence, but those are my personal experiences
I've been trying to figure out how to write the Suggested Use for our label for this and its definitely a challenge haha. Just bc different brands recommend such a vast difference in the way to do it. I think we will give some individual leeway for people to decide.
 
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sns8778

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It’s still sold on EBAY......
I meant that it doesn't appear to be something that the company is still making to be an ongoing option from what I could see.
 
ELROCK

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here is what I want to know...in 2015, everyone on this board had a big dick for PA and especially the Lecithin Granules. People didn't just love them, but they were considered a "staple" and guys were like "I am never going to stop using this supp." Then it completely dropped off the map and nobody was using it?

Why? Why did everyone flip on it? If it was so great, and cheap, and easy to use the Lecithin Granules and was considered a forever favorite for muscle building, why did everyone stop?
Because the taste becomes nauseating after continuous use of the SL. It didn’t fall off because it didn’t work.
 

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