Wanna fix your arterial plaque? GTFIH

[Hyde]

I used to take Nato, but stopped for some reason and started the Serrepeptase. I'll have to look into that again. I've been mega dossing Serra (10x 120,000 SPU) daily, just in case it's doing anything? Not sure if the enteric coating is enough to allow it to enter blood stream, but I'm hopeful. There needs to be more bonified studies done for these products, but kind of hard when there's no money in them for the pharmaceutical industry.

But there are studies for Nattokinase, and many of the other things mentioned like pomegranate juice. Lots of them.

 

[Giode]

But there are studies for Nattokinase, and many of the other things mentioned like pomegranate juice. Lots of them.

There are some very valid studies, but not enough imo. Take NAC for instance, which is an incredibly powerful and beneficial amino acid, but may get banned as a supp by the FDA. Natural remedies that really work are not in best interest of major Pharma, for obvious reasons. There's not much incentive to prove the validity of these cheap and natural supplements, and very little funding goes towards their research. The promising research we see is not enough. That's why threads like this are so valuable.

My main point was more specifically about Serrapeptase. With some of the incredible claims about this product as an artery cleaner, I wish there was more funded research to know whether it really works or not? Just a bunch of opinions and speculating...

 

[ELROCK]

What does GTFIH stand for? I been following this thread since OP started and still can’t figure that out haha

 

[Afi140]

What does GTFIH stand for? I been following this thread since OP started and still can’t figure that out haha

Get the F in here lol

 

[ELROCK]

Get the F in here lol

Ahh…I see now lol. Thanks bro

 

[hyperCat]

I’ve been taking natto for a couple years now, and recently just read up on lumbrokinase. Supposedly this is a more potent enzyme that can dissolve clots/fibrin better without the risk of hemorrhage. I read it’s about 30x more potent than natto, but I didn’t read the full studies. It’s derived from earthworms. Interesting stuff.

 

[Nac]

I’ve been taking natto for a couple years now, and recently just read up on lumbrokinase. Supposedly this is a more potent enzyme that can dissolve clots/fibrin better without the risk of hemorrhage. I read it’s about 30x more potent than natto, but I didn’t read the full studies. It’s derived from earthworms. Interesting stuff.

Looks interesting!

Have you come across anything solid demonstrating decent bioavailability though? I've looked at a few studies suggesting it needs absorption enhancement, and one particular study using a specific extract (DLBS1033) but dosed at 490mg 3x per day; another study recommended enteric coated capsules as best as well. Looking at a few products already available, they dose at 40mg. So on the face of it there seems to be some discrepancy between the studied doses and product doses.

 

[hyperCat]

Looks interesting!

Have you come across anything solid demonstrating decent bioavailability though? I've looked at a few studies suggesting it needs absorption enhancement, and one particular study using a specific extract (DLBS1033) but dosed at 490mg 3x per day; another study recommended enteric coated capsules as best as well. Looking at a few products already available, they dose at 40mg. So on the face of it there seems to be some discrepancy between the studied doses and product doses.

I admittedly haven’t thoroughly researched it yet, but the data I have looked at seemed legit. Just wanted to mention it as it seemed relevant to this thread. I’ll definitely be looking into it further though. One thing I will mention is that all enzymes of this type apparently need to be taken on an empty stomach. Directions on the natto brand I’m taking say preferably with food. So yeah, conflicting info for sure. I take it on an empty stomach.

 

[Hyde]

Man I’m getting addicted to these dates, just sayin’

 

[Beau]

I've recently read some research indicating that taking pycnogenol and gotu kola extract together can reduce arterial plaque.

 

[Nac]

I admittedly haven’t thoroughly researched it yet, but the data I have looked at seemed legit. Just wanted to mention it as it seemed relevant to this thread. I’ll definitely be looking into it further though. One thing I will mention is that all enzymes of this type apparently need to be taken on an empty stomach. Directions on the natto brand I’m taking say preferably with food. So yeah, conflicting info for sure. I take it on an empty stomach.

There's one study showing EPA and DHA (or linoleic acid) enhance the effects of nattokinase, so I usually take my dose with my fish oil.

 

[Nac]

I've recently read some research indicating that taking pycnogenol and gotu kola extract together can reduce arterial plaque.

Pine bark is definitely some good sh1t. I actually haven't looked much into Gotu Kola. Seems most of the studies examining its effects on plaque use the patented version "Centellicum", so I'd be interested to look into any non-patented products and see if those extracts would be comparable.

 

[Beau]

Pine bark is definitely some good sh1t. I actually haven't looked much into Gotu Kola. Seems most of the studies examining its effects on plaque use the patented version "Centellicum", so I'd be interested to look into any non-patented products and see if those extracts would be comparable.

I have not been able find Centellicum as a standalone, only in a Life Extension product. The highest standardized extract I have found is at Nootropics Depot. I am thinking about trying it, since I already have pycnogenol.

 

[Beau]

There's one study showing EPA and DHA (or linoleic acid) enhance the effects of nattokinase, so I usually take my dose with my fish oil.

I hadn't seen that study - I have been taking nattokinase on an empty stomach. I will start taking it with 3 grams fish out. Thank you.

 

[Nac]

I have not been able find Centellicum as a standalone, only in a Life Extension product. The highest standardized extract I have found is at Nootropics Depot. I am thinking about trying it, since I already have pycnogenol.

450mg dosing sound right to you?

 

[Nac]

I hadn't seen that study - I have been taking nattokinase on an empty stomach. I will start taking it with 3 grams fish out. Thank you.

Unsaturated fatty acids enhance the fibrinolytic activity of subtilisin NAT (nattokinase) - PubMed

Subtilisin NAT (STN), alternatively designated nattokinase, is a serine protease with potent fibrinolytic activity. In this study, we screened several foods to enhance the fibrinolytic potential of STN and identified unsaturated fatty acid-rich ones as candidates. We isolated linoleic acid as a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Beau]

450mg dosing sound right to you?

Yes, 150 mg of pycnogenol and 450 mg of gotu kola extract, are the amounts used in the study that I read. One protocol added 100 mg aspirin (an odd amount, because baby aspirin are 81 mg and regular aspirin are usually 325 or 500 mg). I will use 81 mg and call it good.

 

[Hyde]

At this point, I can’t see any reason not to use pine bark extract for someone looking for general cardiovascular health supplement. Nobody is going wrong there.

 

[rodefeeh]

McNatty approach:
=50ml or quarter-of-a-cup of pure (not concentrate sh1t) pomegranate juice per day
=3 dates* per day

At the very least this should prevent plaque accumulation, if not actually reverse it.

For extra cover:
Aronia extract (chokeberry) 500mg per day
1tbsp ground flaxseed (not whole, ground)

Kitchen sink approach add:
Grape seed extract 250mg
Olive leaf extract 500mg
Celery seed extract 150mg (standardized for 3nB content)
K2 180mcg
Pine bark 200mg
Vit d3

Lots more for other heart health/preventative measures, but my focus here was primarily arterial plaque and INCREASING paraoxonase 1 (PON1)
If you have anything else, post it up.

....but who was studeez? Search this sh1t up for yourself and come to your own conclusions.

*not dates as in with a hooker, but the dried fruit

So I’m reading up on dates, is it just the soluble fiber and antioxidants that make it heart healthy. I already eat a shitload of veggies. They probably wouldn’t do much for me but would make for a tasty pwo treat. I normally do raisins and/or banana with saltines.

Thanks for all of responses guys, great thread!

 

[Nac]

So I’m reading up on dates, is it just the soluble fiber and antioxidants that make it heart healthy. I already eat a shitload of veggies. They probably wouldn’t do much for me but would make for a tasty pwo treat. I normally do raisins and/or banana with saltines.

Thanks for all of responses guys, great thread!

I'll relook at the study which concluded taking dates+pom juice was better than either alone, I can't remember what the synergy was supposed to be specifically but I'm sure it was more than just antioxidant (it must be something in both their MoA's that specifically targets plaque or one of the enzymes that dissolves plaque...I'll look it up).

 

[Hyde]

So I’m reading up on dates, is it just the soluble fiber and antioxidants that make it heart healthy. I already eat a shitload of veggies. They probably wouldn’t do much for me but would make for a tasty pwo treat. I normally do raisins and/or banana with saltines.

Thanks for all of responses guys, great thread!

I literally just started eating dates because @Nac said so, and I enjoy them and they are 90mg potassium per pop (learned that from John Meadows; he said they would use them all the time at bodybuilding comps because the potassium would help dry them further & the carbs were easy to eat without water for loading). My pwo raisins were literally just a bit of fructose to spare my liver glycogen before training, so I figured this can’t be any worse

 

[Nac]

OK, so why dates?

They, as well as pomegranate, stimulate the production of paraoxynase-1, or PON1. This enzyme is related also to hdl but basically its some good sh1t, as it limits the oxidation of ldl, which is some bad sh1t. There's other good stuff going on too but it's Cliff-noted here:

Pomegranate-date cocktail a day keeps the doctor away

Pomegranates and dates are delicious, increasingly trendy, and healthy to boot. As it turns out, when consumed together they are a winning combination in the war against heart disease. The researchers conclude that people at high risk for cardiovascular diseases, as well as healthy individuals...

www.sciencedaily.com

Anti-atherogenic properties of date vs. pomegranate polyphenols: the benefits of the combination - PubMed

Hydrolysable tannin polyphenols in pomegranate and phenolic acids in date fruit and seeds are potent antioxidants and anti-atherogenic agents, and thus, in the present study we investigated the possible benefits of combining them in vivo in atherosclerotic apolipoprotein E KO (E(0)) mice...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Nac]

Also, pretty cool...

The Israeli researchers that used pomegranate juice in humans to demonstrate its ability to reduce arterial plaque, are the same researchers who did the pomegranate + dates research.

 

[Hyde]

Also, pretty cool...

The Israeli researchers that used pomegranate juice in humans to demonstrate its ability to reduce arterial plaque, are the same researchers who did the pomegranate + dates research.

Awww yeah the Israeli studies are why I started taking pomegranate extract in the first place.

 

[rodefeeh]

OK, so why dates?

They, as well as pomegranate, stimulate the production of paraoxynase-1, or PON1. This enzyme is related also to hdl but basically its some good sh1t, as it limits the oxidation of ldl, which is some bad sh1t. There's other good stuff going on too but it's Cliff-noted here:

Pomegranate-date cocktail a day keeps the doctor away

Pomegranates and dates are delicious, increasingly trendy, and healthy to boot. As it turns out, when consumed together they are a winning combination in the war against heart disease. The researchers conclude that people at high risk for cardiovascular diseases, as well as healthy individuals...

www.sciencedaily.com

Anti-atherogenic properties of date vs. pomegranate polyphenols: the benefits of the combination - PubMed

Hydrolysable tannin polyphenols in pomegranate and phenolic acids in date fruit and seeds are potent antioxidants and anti-atherogenic agents, and thus, in the present study we investigated the possible benefits of combining them in vivo in atherosclerotic apolipoprotein E KO (E(0)) mice...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Sweet, thanks, dates it is then!

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Wish someone could turn this into a powder supplement. Morphogen should do it; they have excellent concoctions for organ/tissue health.

 

[Hyde]

Wish someone could turn this into a powder supplement. Morphogen should do it; they have excellent concoctions for organ/tissue health.

They do make some of this as powders/caps. Unfortunately most of it is individual ingredients, but I know Steve has said in the SNS thread they plan on a heart/cardiovascular support supplement soon. Morphogen has a kidney drink powder that is good for cardiovascular health, Nephrogen.

Unless you mean it has to be a powder - I don’t know that you would want some of these ingredients as powder. Garlic for example is not something you can flavor away in a drink at all. You want capsules of that.

 

[Marne40]

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

They do make some of this as powders/caps. Unfortunately most of it is individual ingredients, but I know Steve has said in the SNS thread they plan on a heart/cardiovascular support supplement soon. Morphogen has a kidney drink powder that is good for cardiovascular health, Nephrogen.

Unless you mean it has to be a powder - I don’t know that you would want some of these ingredients as powder. Garlic for example is not something you can flavor away in a drink at all. You want capsules of that.

Oh I just meant date powder and pomegrenade powder

 

[Hyde]

Oh I just meant date powder and pomegrenade powder

Life extension and some other companies sell capsules of powdered pomegranate.