Hyde
Legend
But there are studies for Nattokinase, and many of the other things mentioned like pomegranate juice. Lots of them.
Wanna fix your arterial plaque? GTFIH
- Thread starter Nac
- Start date
But there are studies for Nattokinase, and many of the other things mentioned like pomegranate juice. Lots of them.
Giode
New member
There are some very valid studies, but not enough imo. Take NAC for instance, which is an incredibly powerful and beneficial amino acid, but may get banned as a supp by the FDA. Natural remedies that really work are not in best interest of major Pharma, for obvious reasons. There's not much incentive to prove the validity of these cheap and natural supplements, and very little funding goes towards their research. The promising research we see is not enough. That's why threads like this are so valuable.
My main point was more specifically about Serrapeptase. With some of the incredible claims about this product as an artery cleaner, I wish there was more funded research to know whether it really works or not? Just a bunch of opinions and speculating...
Afi140
Legend
Get the F in here lol
ELROCK
Well-known member
Ahh…I see now lol. Thanks bro
hyperCat
Active member
I’ve been taking natto for a couple years now, and recently just read up on lumbrokinase. Supposedly this is a more potent enzyme that can dissolve clots/fibrin better without the risk of hemorrhage. I read it’s about 30x more potent than natto, but I didn’t read the full studies. It’s derived from earthworms. Interesting stuff.
Nac
Well-known member
Looks interesting!
Have you come across anything solid demonstrating decent bioavailability though? I've looked at a few studies suggesting it needs absorption enhancement, and one particular study using a specific extract (DLBS1033) but dosed at 490mg 3x per day; another study recommended enteric coated capsules as best as well. Looking at a few products already available, they dose at 40mg. So on the face of it there seems to be some discrepancy between the studied doses and product doses.
hyperCat
Active member
I admittedly haven’t thoroughly researched it yet, but the data I have looked at seemed legit. Just wanted to mention it as it seemed relevant to this thread. I’ll definitely be looking into it further though. One thing I will mention is that all enzymes of this type apparently need to be taken on an empty stomach. Directions on the natto brand I’m taking say preferably with food. So yeah, conflicting info for sure. I take it on an empty stomach.
Nac
Well-known member
There's one study showing EPA and DHA (or linoleic acid) enhance the effects of nattokinase, so I usually take my dose with my fish oil.
Nac
Well-known member
Pine bark is definitely some good sh1t. I actually haven't looked much into Gotu Kola. Seems most of the studies examining its effects on plaque use the patented version "Centellicum", so I'd be interested to look into any non-patented products and see if those extracts would be comparable.
Nac
Well-known member
450mg dosing sound right to you?
Nac
Well-known member
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Beau
Well-known member
rodefeeh
Well-known member
So I’m reading up on dates, is it just the soluble fiber and antioxidants that make it heart healthy. I already eat a shitload of veggies. They probably wouldn’t do much for me but would make for a tasty pwo treat. I normally do raisins and/or banana with saltines.
Thanks for all of responses guys, great thread!
Nac
Well-known member
I'll relook at the study which concluded taking dates+pom juice was better than either alone, I can't remember what the synergy was supposed to be specifically but I'm sure it was more than just antioxidant (it must be something in both their MoA's that specifically targets plaque or one of the enzymes that dissolves plaque...I'll look it up).
Hyde
Legend
I literally just started eating dates because @Nac said so, and I enjoy them and they are 90mg potassium per pop (learned that from John Meadows; he said they would use them all the time at bodybuilding comps because the potassium would help dry them further & the carbs were easy to eat without water for loading). My pwo raisins were literally just a bit of fructose to spare my liver glycogen before training, so I figured this can’t be any worse
Nac
Well-known member
OK, so why dates?
They, as well as pomegranate, stimulate the production of paraoxynase-1, or PON1. This enzyme is related also to hdl but basically its some good sh1t, as it limits the oxidation of ldl, which is some bad sh1t. There's other good stuff going on too but it's Cliff-noted here:
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They, as well as pomegranate, stimulate the production of paraoxynase-1, or PON1. This enzyme is related also to hdl but basically its some good sh1t, as it limits the oxidation of ldl, which is some bad sh1t. There's other good stuff going on too but it's Cliff-noted here:
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Cheeky Monkey
Well-known member
Wish someone could turn this into a powder supplement. Morphogen should do it; they have excellent concoctions for organ/tissue health.
Hyde
Legend
They do make some of this as powders/caps. Unfortunately most of it is individual ingredients, but I know Steve has said in the SNS thread they plan on a heart/cardiovascular support supplement soon. Morphogen has a kidney drink powder that is good for cardiovascular health, Nephrogen.
Unless you mean it has to be a powder - I don’t know that you would want some of these ingredients as powder. Garlic for example is not something you can flavor away in a drink at all. You want capsules of that.
Cheeky Monkey
Well-known member
Hyde
Legend
Oh I just meant date powder and pomegrenade powder
Life extension and some other companies sell capsules of powdered pomegranate.
Nac
Well-known member
Just an update on Nattokinase dosing, based in this 2022 study...
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To be clear, this study was concerned with effective dosing for halting the progression of artherosclerosis and improving lipid profiles. So, if you take natto purely for thrombiotic benefits this might not apply so much to you.
Anyway...nattokinase "was found to be ineffective in lowering lipids and suppressing atherosclerosis progression at a dose of 3,600 FU/day".
The dose where significant benefits were seen was 10,800fu per day. This was studied and found safe in humans.
The highest "safe" dose Ive come across was 14,000fu, but done in rats.
Most products dose natto at 2000-4000fu per day. There is, however, a few products out now geared specifically towards bbers that dose in the 10,000fu range.
Again, these higher doses are more relevant if youre aim is to halt/reduce artherosclerotic progression. Kinda similiar to the very high dosing of K2 in one particular product, where the aim is to actually go as far as reducing calcium buildup (Chase Irons used this K2 product to reduce his calcium score).
Invalid Link Removed
To be clear, this study was concerned with effective dosing for halting the progression of artherosclerosis and improving lipid profiles. So, if you take natto purely for thrombiotic benefits this might not apply so much to you.
Anyway...nattokinase "was found to be ineffective in lowering lipids and suppressing atherosclerosis progression at a dose of 3,600 FU/day".
The dose where significant benefits were seen was 10,800fu per day. This was studied and found safe in humans.
The highest "safe" dose Ive come across was 14,000fu, but done in rats.
Most products dose natto at 2000-4000fu per day. There is, however, a few products out now geared specifically towards bbers that dose in the 10,000fu range.
Again, these higher doses are more relevant if youre aim is to halt/reduce artherosclerotic progression. Kinda similiar to the very high dosing of K2 in one particular product, where the aim is to actually go as far as reducing calcium buildup (Chase Irons used this K2 product to reduce his calcium score).
