Voting On New Products
- Thread starter Author L. Rea
- Start date
BKneller
Banned
#1 - it is illegal to do this, whether you 'can' do it or not.
#2 - some people do not want an injectable; ours will be oral use and effective at that.
#3 - While I respect your opinion (and obvious ability to use a conversion kit) we have decided on this as the first one. We'll do the dbol variant in tandem with it (OK, slightly behind) and we'll investigate some of the other stuff I posted about (C-9a, et al).
Thanks for your input though and good luck with your endeavors,
BK
#2 - some people do not want an injectable; ours will be oral use and effective at that.
#3 - While I respect your opinion (and obvious ability to use a conversion kit) we have decided on this as the first one. We'll do the dbol variant in tandem with it (OK, slightly behind) and we'll investigate some of the other stuff I posted about (C-9a, et al).
Thanks for your input though and good luck with your endeavors,
BK
CROWLER said:
Mass_69
Well-known member
In Order of Most to Least Favorite:
1) 4,17b-diydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one
4) 4-hydroxy-1-methyl-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one
6) 4-hydroxy-17a-methyl-androsta-1,4-dien-3-one
3) 17a-methyl-2-hydroxymethylene-4-hydroxy-5-androstan-3-one
5) 4-hydroxy-17a-methyl-2-oxa-5a-androstane-3-one
2) 17a-methyl-4-hydroxy-4,9-dien-3-one
1) 4,17b-diydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one
4) 4-hydroxy-1-methyl-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one
6) 4-hydroxy-17a-methyl-androsta-1,4-dien-3-one
3) 17a-methyl-2-hydroxymethylene-4-hydroxy-5-androstan-3-one
5) 4-hydroxy-17a-methyl-2-oxa-5a-androstane-3-one
2) 17a-methyl-4-hydroxy-4,9-dien-3-one
DR.D
Well-known member
Author L. Rea said:
Very well, DS accepts your apology. I am guilty of being hasty with my words on occasion too, so I am quick to forgive. However, your future actions will let everyone know if your words are sincere, and your honor will be judged by your actions, not your words.
In other words, people love Matt around here, as well they should. He's a great guy and a good, honest Christian sponsor. Messing with DS will not make you too popular at AM and I won't take kindly to it either.
Author L. Rea
Board Sponsor
Thank you Size. I appreciate that a great deal. The dry environs of a board or e-mail makes it difficult at times to get someone's true self and intent to come through. And apologies are included in that.size said:No need to apologize to me. I am happy to have you here and I am just a guy looking to achieve my physique goals.
Okay, the good news is that the sample for the first test product will be in Nevada for testing in the next 10-14 days. I have to agree with Dr. D's comments in regard to effects in many aspects (very good post lad. Thank you), but the truth is that we are looking for legal options even if it requires detailed alterations to make it possible. The hardest part is not making it "work" at this point, but more so avoiding illegal contaminants. The initial 4-OH alteration suffices for this intent rather nicely while adding other benefits. Okay, and I really like the 1,4 dien project as well. We have looked at about a dozen variants that may be worth a second look.
Bruce: Did you have any tests you would like to add to the list for the alpha testers? We can assume the intial lipid issues will occurin the first 7-14 days so this should be interesting due to the lack of a 17a or other methyl as compared to tren itself. I have a few hundred test returns on tren users from some years ago for comparison.
Dr. D: Did you have any tests to add that you feel would shed more light on this project?
I am curious. Since progestins have a potential for libido loss, if the 4-OH alteration may have a potential to remedy this. As I am sure you recall, very few had that problem with 4-OH-nandrolone or MOHN as compared to the same dosages of nandrolone or 17a-methyl-nandrolone.
BKneller
Banned
Author,
Make sure we run FSH/LH levels on all (3) guys trying this out, OK? Not just TT and E2 levels.
I'd like FSH/LH on Day 0, Day 7, Day 21, and then Day 42 (this is going to be a 28 day cycle for these guys).
I just want to see how suppressive it is, I think this is important info.
Also, and this will sound tacky as hell, have the 3 guys keep "woody logs" starting 5 days out and then during the 28 days and then until day 42. I want to record how this effects libido....tren has a wicked reputation.
If we can get them done cheaply, throw in a mineral corticoid panel too pre, day 14 and post (42).
Thus usual suspects will suffice - chem panel, LFT's, CBC with diff (but we don't need the RBC indices or RDW or other superfluous stuff).
You're running creatinine/BUN I think you mentioned it, yes?
Next time around, can you price out GH and IGF-1 levels for the 4-OH dbol test? We should have thought of this before (I am an idiot!)...might be nice to see if these guys raise GH and IGF-1 levels. Might be a nice added bonus.
BTW...I called Z at 130AM last night to 'correct' the addy. So it will go to the facility (the sample) in Nevada and not California.
He also told me you 'speak to fast' when you talk with him and to slow down so he can understand you. That or learn how to speak fluent Mandarin before your next chat with him
BK
Make sure we run FSH/LH levels on all (3) guys trying this out, OK? Not just TT and E2 levels.
I'd like FSH/LH on Day 0, Day 7, Day 21, and then Day 42 (this is going to be a 28 day cycle for these guys).
I just want to see how suppressive it is, I think this is important info.
Also, and this will sound tacky as hell, have the 3 guys keep "woody logs" starting 5 days out and then during the 28 days and then until day 42. I want to record how this effects libido....tren has a wicked reputation.
If we can get them done cheaply, throw in a mineral corticoid panel too pre, day 14 and post (42).
Thus usual suspects will suffice - chem panel, LFT's, CBC with diff (but we don't need the RBC indices or RDW or other superfluous stuff).
You're running creatinine/BUN I think you mentioned it, yes?
Next time around, can you price out GH and IGF-1 levels for the 4-OH dbol test? We should have thought of this before (I am an idiot!)...might be nice to see if these guys raise GH and IGF-1 levels. Might be a nice added bonus.
BTW...I called Z at 130AM last night to 'correct' the addy. So it will go to the facility (the sample) in Nevada and not California.
He also told me you 'speak to fast' when you talk with him and to slow down so he can understand you. That or learn how to speak fluent Mandarin before your next chat with him
BK
Author L. Rea said:
BKneller
Banned
You're probably spot on about the progestational activity. My guess is adding the 4-OH to trenbolone will reduce the progestational activity of it and that is why I am really interested in FSH/LH levels (actually GnRH but I won't go there!).
If history is any teacher (yes, MOHN vs. MN for instance) then this will be a good thing.
So this will have "tren like effects" for sure but will not "as potent" as tren nor as suppressive.
The thought occured to me that we could have done 17a-methyl-trenbolone as a 4-OH mod and still be legal. This might be something to think on but remember, this stuff is hepatotoxic to the max and this concerns me quite a bit.
I know the "gonzo crowd" would purchase it but it's mass appeal would be really limited. I'm not gonna pursue a methyl-tren at this time.
Anyhow, let's chat more when we have the THP variant in hand.
Are you gonna do a small cap run in Nevada with it or just drop it in Everclear and test it that way on people?
BK
If history is any teacher (yes, MOHN vs. MN for instance) then this will be a good thing.
So this will have "tren like effects" for sure but will not "as potent" as tren nor as suppressive.
The thought occured to me that we could have done 17a-methyl-trenbolone as a 4-OH mod and still be legal. This might be something to think on but remember, this stuff is hepatotoxic to the max and this concerns me quite a bit.
I know the "gonzo crowd" would purchase it but it's mass appeal would be really limited. I'm not gonna pursue a methyl-tren at this time.
Anyhow, let's chat more when we have the THP variant in hand.
Are you gonna do a small cap run in Nevada with it or just drop it in Everclear and test it that way on people?
BK
Author L. Rea said:
BKneller
Banned
No way! THP ether.
Everyone is too amped up on methyl this and methyl that.
No need. It adds a huge degree of toxicity (especially with trenbolone)
and it would be or could be viewed as irresponsible of Author and I to sell this as a
methyl.
We might do a methyl with the 1,4-diene (dbol) with a 4-OH fxn group attached.
Or we might just leave it as 4-hydroxy-boldenone-17b-THP ether.
Don't know yet.
Author?
BK
Everyone is too amped up on methyl this and methyl that.
No need. It adds a huge degree of toxicity (especially with trenbolone)
and it would be or could be viewed as irresponsible of Author and I to sell this as a
methyl.
We might do a methyl with the 1,4-diene (dbol) with a 4-OH fxn group attached.
Or we might just leave it as 4-hydroxy-boldenone-17b-THP ether.
Don't know yet.
Author?
BK
Mr X said:
Mr.50
Board Supporter
Great reccomendations, and in all honesty especially the Woddy Logs. Important information for all of us.
BKneller said:Author,
Make sure we run FSH/LH levels on all (3) guys trying this out, OK? Not just TT and E2 levels.
I'd like FSH/LH on Day 0, Day 7, Day 21, and then Day 42 (this is going to be a 28 day cycle for these guys).
I just want to see how suppressive it is, I think this is important info.
Also, and this will sound tacky as hell, have the 3 guys keep "woody logs" starting 5 days out and then during the 28 days and then until day 42. I want to record how this effects libido....tren has a wicked reputation.
If we can get them done cheaply, throw in a mineral corticoid panel too pre, day 14 and post (42).
Thus usual suspects will suffice - chem panel, LFT's, CBC with diff (but we don't need the RBC indices or RDW or other superfluous stuff).
You're running creatinine/BUN I think you mentioned it, yes?
Next time around, can you price out GH and IGF-1 levels for the 4-OH dbol test? We should have thought of this before (I am an idiot!)...might be nice to see if these guys raise GH and IGF-1 levels. Might be a nice added bonus.
BTW...I called Z at 130AM last night to 'correct' the addy. So it will go to the facility (the sample) in Nevada and not California.
He also told me you 'speak to fast' when you talk with him and to slow down so he can understand you. That or learn how to speak fluent Mandarin before your next chat with him
BK
snakebyte05
Board Supporter
tren and anavar
Author L. Rea
Board Sponsor
Bruce:BKneller said:Author,
Make sure we run FSH/LH levels on all (3) guys trying this out, OK? Not just TT and E2 levels.
I'd like FSH/LH on Day 0, Day 7, Day 21, and then Day 42 (this is going to be a 28 day cycle for these guys).
I just want to see how suppressive it is, I think this is important info.
Also, and this will sound tacky as hell, have the 3 guys keep "woody logs" starting 5 days out and then during the 28 days and then until day 42. I want to record how this effects libido....tren has a wicked reputation.
If we can get them done cheaply, throw in a mineral corticoid panel too pre, day 14 and post (42).
Thus usual suspects will suffice - chem panel, LFT's, CBC with diff (but we don't need the RBC indices or RDW or other superfluous stuff).
You're running creatinine/BUN I think you mentioned it, yes?
Next time around, can you price out GH and IGF-1 levels for the 4-OH dbol test? We should have thought of this before (I am an idiot!)...might be nice to see if these guys raise GH and IGF-1 levels. Might be a nice added bonus.
BTW...I called Z at 130AM last night to 'correct' the addy. So it will go to the facility (the sample) in Nevada and not California.
He also told me you 'speak to fast' when you talk with him and to slow down so he can understand you. That or learn how to speak fluent Mandarin before your next chat with him
BK
As a rule (okay, not being weird just thorough here) we do have testers keep "woody logs" and a record of morning erections so as to evaluate more in depth the real world results rather than simple research papers done in a vacuum only but I agree that a little more focus on this is needed here. (The E...Max logs were just sick in this regard...way more info than requested)
FLH/FSH day 0, 7, 21 and 42 it is then. I do not really see prolactin or estrogen being an issue here but due to lipid profile potentials it would be wise to do so for comparison.
On the OH-D-Bol a somatomedian-c value will be helpful as would a corticoid panel. The anti-catabolic effect of the parent compound is well documented as is the positive effects upon IGF's.
We will likely just do a short run of capsules. The Everclear is just too nasty. lol
So Z thinks I can understand him? Wow, and I thought I just needed a translator.
Author L. Rea
Board Sponsor
Dr. D, thank you for accepting my apology, you really do not realize how bad I feel still, but I have to ask, what actions have I done personally to suggest that I had anything against Matt, you or DS? I have promoted your products (because I believe in them) and plugged DS as well as Sledge in columns and articles. So please catch me up? In short lad, an apology accepted but replied to with a threat seems rather empty. I have stood by my word because it is the only way I know. Not because I give a rats ass about anyone elses choice of opinions, religion or friends. I respect you, Sledge and DS quite a bit based upon the same thing: Judged by actions. If actions are your point of evaluation then I am golden. lol I would like it to stay that way. Fair enough Bro?DR.D said:
By the way, we will be at the Mr. O this year, drop by and say hello.
DR.D
Well-known member
Author L. Rea said:
Author,
This is no threat. It is a warning about how I will deal with future aggression if it occurs. Just want to make sure I'm being clear. Also, you have no idea how many times I have agreed with you and defended your theories. I am not your enemy. Just to let you know, I respect you highly even if we don't share the same friends. I am looking forward to meeting you at the O.
milwood
Registered User
Props to ALRI, DS, and all who dwell within. I'm trying hard to get on board with Gaspari, and let old judgements die. BK is helping, I think, and I think there's room for everyone (and God knows there's enough scrilla in the supp industry to share- especially for the good guys!) And besides, they blinded me with science...
Ghosting
Guest
I thought the methyl was for first pass liver. Are these compound not subject to the same set of rules because of their structure as some of the old PH's? What about the structure makes them progestin versus being an androgen?
Buc4Life04
Member
I agree, im glad there not gonna be all meths so i can stack them the dbol i dont mind being meth if it is more "active" (cause i cant think of the word im looking for)Mr X said:
UnicronSpawn
Active member
Mr X said:That sounds great. I was actually hoping to see some less methyls and some more things I could stack withAlso, if it matters, I would also like to have the D-Bol as a THP Ether given it's still effective.
Unfortunately, without the methyl at the 17alpha it wouldnt BE 4-oh D-bol, it would be 4-oh Boldenone. Even if the THP ether makes it orally active, chances are it would be very different from D-bol. I mean look at the drastic contrast between boldenone and 17a methyl boldenone (aka D-bol). It might be great in its own way, but I doubt it will resemble D-bol much. That being said, the only real way to know what either of them does is to sythesize a batch of each and test them.
Author L. Rea
Board Sponsor
ROFL!!!milwood said:
Thanks