CorpKiller
Well-known member
I’ve been reading up on VECTOR. Some people are saying it gives gainz better than SARMS like Ostarine. Sounds a little good to be true....
VECTOR
- Thread starter CorpKiller
- Start date
justhere4comm
Banned
I happen to think Osta is not as good as Vector on a number of levels, but why start a new thread when there are a few discussing Vector at length?
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Of course, don't take my word for it. Browse the last 30 pages, and follow along.
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Of course, don't take my word for it. Browse the last 30 pages, and follow along.
justhere4comm
Banned
My fat loss is accelerating, and my endurance and power output is up. I took a ride on my bike today (off) and it
was crazy cool.
I think I need a new bike. Powered over a bump in the road, and the chain derailed almost wiped out, popped that thing back on, and hellbent onward without a care. I'm loving it, and am happy to give away supplements I won't
use for more of it.
rowz4broz
Well-known member
I would love for fatloss to start with me. Body composition has pretty much remained the same. But (no bull****) i am noticeably stronger there no doubting that.
edit - ive actually incorporated FD2 back into my current stack(was gonna use it for a cut after my vector run) in hopes that it can aid with fatloss
allbrawn
Member
I’ve had better results with osta and no sides w/ osta compared to Pros.
I hope this vector product is as good or better than osta. I don’t trust any shady companies that still sell sarms or else I’d only cycle osta
LeanEngineer
Legend
All the logs on Vector seem very positive. A vector and fd2.0 stack would definitely get you some serious results for being a natty stack!
brundel
Board Sponsor
For those guys who havnt heard about Vector yet here is a link to the Vector pre release thread.
Starting mid thread at about march 10th youll begin to see reports from users. At this point there are over 100 positive reports and the product is only 7 weeks old.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/black-lion-research/299585-vector-pre-release-112.html#post6003644
Vector is a 3 extract product.
180 caps. 3000mg.
Read up on each of the 3 extracts here-
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I would hold Vector up against Osta all day long.
Reports have shown gains in the 7-15 lbs range with concurrent fat loss and in performance enhancement. In some cases pretty serious performance increases. These reports are not from me personally nor are they from reps or anyone paid by us. Just from guys who have purchased the product and posted their results over time.
The other thing.....Osta is at least slightly suppressive in some and it seems to be really suppressive in others. So, you take osta and your test levels and DHT levels crash. Osta might be anabolic but its not gonna do much when your test levels are crushed because Osta isnt more anabolic than test or DHT. And after the cycle you should run a PCT during which time your catabolic if anything adn generally speaking youll wind up either where you started or worse. Osta isnt really that great of an anabolic.
Vector is easily as anabolic if not more.
And its not suppressive. In fact research indicates it can increase test levels and the labs Ive seen support this.
Here is a before and after lab test. The subject was taking follidrone and viron for about 6 months and youll see the labs were in the 500 range.
He added Vector and retested and his test level has increased by about 100%. Also of interest is his test level is about 170 points above the reference range. In the very least Vector is non suppressive. But its also starting to look like it can raise test levels as well.
Starting mid thread at about march 10th youll begin to see reports from users. At this point there are over 100 positive reports and the product is only 7 weeks old.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/black-lion-research/299585-vector-pre-release-112.html#post6003644
Vector is a 3 extract product.
180 caps. 3000mg.
Read up on each of the 3 extracts here-
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I would hold Vector up against Osta all day long.
Reports have shown gains in the 7-15 lbs range with concurrent fat loss and in performance enhancement. In some cases pretty serious performance increases. These reports are not from me personally nor are they from reps or anyone paid by us. Just from guys who have purchased the product and posted their results over time.
The other thing.....Osta is at least slightly suppressive in some and it seems to be really suppressive in others. So, you take osta and your test levels and DHT levels crash. Osta might be anabolic but its not gonna do much when your test levels are crushed because Osta isnt more anabolic than test or DHT. And after the cycle you should run a PCT during which time your catabolic if anything adn generally speaking youll wind up either where you started or worse. Osta isnt really that great of an anabolic.
Vector is easily as anabolic if not more.
And its not suppressive. In fact research indicates it can increase test levels and the labs Ive seen support this.
Here is a before and after lab test. The subject was taking follidrone and viron for about 6 months and youll see the labs were in the 500 range.
He added Vector and retested and his test level has increased by about 100%. Also of interest is his test level is about 170 points above the reference range. In the very least Vector is non suppressive. But its also starting to look like it can raise test levels as well.
BBiceps
Well-known member
No doubt that Vector works but it’s misleading to post that blood work, the test subject was on Clomid as well and when I take Clomid my levels go from 500 to 900 also, there is no “proof” that Vector did this increase by itself.
brundel
Board Sponsor
He was on clomid the entirety of the lab work you see in that post. Literally the whole time.
Most of the time it was 500ish. So unless your saying clomid randomly decided to work this isnt right.
Youll see there were some boosts in his labs early 2017. This was HCG. It then drops back to 500. He was on clomid during this whole time.
And then a boost at the end. This was Vector.
Clomid dosent work sometimes and sometimes not and then have big spikes here and there. For him Clomid gets him to about 500 as administered.
This is confirmed by years of labs as you can clearly see.
I agree that Clomid can raise your test levels but if it was going to it would have done so during the 2 years he administered it. Not just the one lab.
You have to look at the whole picture not one lab and what he took then.
Most of the time it was 500ish. So unless your saying clomid randomly decided to work this isnt right.
Youll see there were some boosts in his labs early 2017. This was HCG. It then drops back to 500. He was on clomid during this whole time.
And then a boost at the end. This was Vector.
Clomid dosent work sometimes and sometimes not and then have big spikes here and there. For him Clomid gets him to about 500 as administered.
This is confirmed by years of labs as you can clearly see.
I agree that Clomid can raise your test levels but if it was going to it would have done so during the 2 years he administered it. Not just the one lab.
You have to look at the whole picture not one lab and what he took then.
allbrawn
Member
Brundel, where can I order some of this. Cant wait to run this
brundel
Board Sponsor
Currently its only at strong supplements.
Once we pass the 6th of next month it will be in stock on our site and dozens of retailers.
https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/vector-by-black-lion-research
Rockslide
Member
So Vector can be used to bulk or cut. Is there anything FD does better than Vector or that Vector doesn’t do. I know it would be ideal to run both , but if you just had to pick 1 for bulking, 1 for recomp, 1 for cutting, 1 for strength, 1 for improved cardio or endurance training , which one would it be for those respective things?
BBiceps
Well-known member
I would say Vector for everything since FD2 did zero for me.
bigsmall
Banned
Get Vector. I run both - I have been running Folidrone 2.0 for two years and gonna run Vector as a staple.
TheMovement
Well-known member
You paying money for this?
Rockslide
Member
If the equipment is owned already, like for example, by a university’s exercise phys dept, it wouldn’t be as expensive as you think. Price of the Vector , small fee or giftcards to whatever group of college students do it. It would have some limitations regarding controlling it compared to a pharmaceutical type study that are much tighter controlled and better randomized, but would be exponentially cheaper.
But really I was just making the point that based on the studies on BLR , it would be cool to see some studies looking at the product itself as a sports supplement. (Like the W Texas A&M study on 1-dhea)
brundel
Board Sponsor
Follidrone 2.0 is more of a lean anabolic. Think winstrol.
Vector is more of a major mass builder. THink anadrol.
They both have their benefits.
The thing to remember is they both work in different ways. Follidrone is and always has been primarily a myostatin inhibitor.
Vector works in multiple other ways.
So it makes sense to stack them as they are different. Or to use whichever suits you better for your cycle.
Personally Im running Foll, vector, viron and youll have to pry this ish from my cold dead hands.
On another note a buddy of mine (running 100% only BLR products) won his natty physique comp last night. He looked great. BLR only.
Will post some pics later.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Already working on this.
But its not as easy as you make it seem. Or inexpensive.
Nobody works for free
brundel
Board Sponsor
doogans
Active member
With Vector are there any risks of androgenic sides? Such as elevated DHT and hair loss?
Rockslide
Member
Already working on this.
But its not as easy as you make it seem. Or inexpensive.
Nobody works for free
Already working on this.
But its not as easy as you make it seem. Or inexpensive.
Nobody works for free
I agree definately not easy, never free. I know some of the costs of these types of studies can be passed along with to a university though if you end up getting set up with one (people on there Phd grinds work cheap). Hopefully you can get most of the costs of the project passed along to another researcher working under a grant , wouldn’t hold the same power as a pharmaceutical study of course but will make big waves nonetheless.
This is nothing you don’t already know but if Quality VO2 max gains were published it would open BLRs market up to an entirely new demographic of athletes other than the BB community. Obviously power sports data would catch the attention of those in competitive sports. I find it pretty cool that you have maintained this “door to door” approach on these forums, Brundel.
I’m excited about trying Vector, for one the Korean Mistletoe but also what you have published on Catapol stimulating EPO. I hope it takes my runs to the next level on my recomp.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Yah the performance enhancing effects of Vector are exceptional. I cant wait to study exactly how exceptional they are.
Have you taken a good look at catalpol? Interesting stuff. The full spectrum Rehmannaie has a ton plus other interesting stuff.
Pretty amazing stuff.
Hopefully......I can get the university we are working with to assume some of the cost as it can be used for study, thesis papers, teaching etc etc.
Masterzen
Member
Not trying to be an a$$, but comparing vector to ostarine or any other sarm or other hormonal "supplement" is a joke.
1.Where is the evidence?
2.A proper study with placebo group?
Posting a bloodwork from some1 who is on trt and on other hormonal meds is a evidence ??? Lol, broscience is stronG in this one.
Saying: its better then osta but with no sides is ilogical.
Anything that works ( mostly) has also negative sides.
More potency= more sides ( steroids for example, tren is the king but get the wores sides).
Just look 10 years back, and u gona see a "vector" coming out every year, been hyped till the next "natural anabolic" comes out.
Give it up, so far there is no "natural anabolic", with no sides.
Its 2018, let the broscience die, dont get fooled every year, God !
P.sl. let the flames begin, but plz start with answering questions 1 and 2
1.Where is the evidence?
2.A proper study with placebo group?
Posting a bloodwork from some1 who is on trt and on other hormonal meds is a evidence ??? Lol, broscience is stronG in this one.
Saying: its better then osta but with no sides is ilogical.
Anything that works ( mostly) has also negative sides.
More potency= more sides ( steroids for example, tren is the king but get the wores sides).
Just look 10 years back, and u gona see a "vector" coming out every year, been hyped till the next "natural anabolic" comes out.
Give it up, so far there is no "natural anabolic", with no sides.
Its 2018, let the broscience die, dont get fooled every year, God !
P.sl. let the flames begin, but plz start with answering questions 1 and 2
bigsmall
Banned
The evidence is my personal experience bro - I have done many Osta runs and many Andro runs - Vector blows Osta away and is more in line with Andros but can be run as a staple without side effects, PCT etc.. Get with the times bro lol...and go look at the tons of other folks comments and logs claiming the same thing.
Masterzen
Member
Thats all i had to read.
Not saying u are lying but its just broscinece.
Yep, i rly should get with the times, times of bro science.
bigsmall
Banned
Yep, get with the times bro lol...and go look at the tons of other folks comments and logs claiming the same thing.100's of others AM having the same experience. Guess you missed that eh moron lol...
justhere4comm
Banned
What you wrote makes no sense.
Rockslide
Member
All I had really looked at prior was the stuff BLR has posted on the website. Pretty exciting stuff though. The other day I was looking at a peptide that is in clinical trials that signals the body to produce its own EPO. Apparently it has been used some in the cycling world but hasn’t really been mentioned much in the B.B. world. Obviously Equipose has a long standing history of inducing polycythemia and causes “race horse like endurance in people” stands to reason that if a natural compound could also do the same thing to a lesser effect providing it binds to the right receptors and turns on the right signaling pathways.
I would expect 3-6 weeks before any EPO signaling benefits begin to work , possibly a little longer. RBCs live about 90 days so the goal is to increase production before the ones that are set to die of die off.
I would expect the changes to capillary density through increase VEGF signaling to take longer , guessing 8-12 weeks ish at the earliest. I believe a lot of the studies looking at aerobic excercise, type 1 muscle fiber capillary density changes with excercise were seen over periods of 6 months or so.
VO2 increases the first few months are typically from increase stroke volume, Cyclists who become polycythemic by tranusfusion would get immediate benefits while supplemental EPO takes a few weeks to stimulate the marrow.
TheMovement
Well-known member
Interesting actually. Id love to see a university student take this on for a thesis proposal. It would have to be on e of those big schools no doubt but like you said it would be cool to see.
Masterzen
Member
Moron?
I gues u r that low because you have zero arguments.
Like said, logs and comments= subjectiv opinions unless backed up with something ( detsiled progress pics, bloodworks, dexa scann, etc ).
bigsmall
Banned
Yep its all their broscience lol...
Transhuman
Member
It's all anecdotal.
bigsmall
Banned
Some bloodwork has come in recently. And way too many seasoned AM guys getting the same effects for this not to be working
Transhuman
Member
Some bloodwork has come in recently. And way too many seasoned AM guys getting the same effects for this not to be working
I never questioned whether it worked or not, I questioned whether it's as potent as hormonal anabolics. There has to be more than just anecdotes for proof, and Chedapalooza's bloodwork isn't a good example.
TheMovement
Well-known member
For valid measures of that magnitude I think the product would have to be around for some time longer. Dont forget how new this is.
scoooter
Well-known member
Time will tell
It's a fast paced industry, unless your waiting for the "next-best" to be released, most original formulas get changed/modified/updated so that also makes it difficult to gauge effectiveness over a longer period of time (think years).
mbonheur
Active member
At least in my case, there is not an impact on blood pressure for now. But I take stuff like CoQ10, Hibiscus, etc year round
brundel
Board Sponsor
Why would you expect it to elevate your blood pressure?
So far I have seen no indication of elevated blood pressure in anyone.
brundel
Board Sponsor
No reason to not stack these.
ucheoma
Active member
Some bloodwork has come in recently. And way too many seasoned AM guys getting the same effects for this not to be working
Plse stop!!! Are there so many children on this board that buy this nonsense you spew endlessly. Bloodwork?? Give me a break. You cant be that desperate to rely on that garbage. Anecdotal evidence, you can find every supp in this board has tonnes of postive rave reviews. Its all part of the initial marketing hype which fizzles out eventually in diasspointment, reformulations, or the 'next killer natty anabolic' that blows away everything that came before