Varicoceles - New Research & Findings

[JanSz]

I was put on Androgel 4 pumps a day, on April 4 08 .... I was doing 20MG Nolvadex on M-W-F for the first week then cut it out and went just to Androgel .... My first week and a half was AWESOME ! .... I am now in my thrid week and not so great .... Although my head is better depression is clear ED is spotty at best ....
I was wondering if anyone else has combined the nolvadex with Adrogel to see what the results of continuing therapy would be ....

Thoughts ?

1 1.25
2 2.5
3 3.75
4 5
5 6.25
6 7.5
7 8.75
8 10
9 11.25
10 12.5
11 13.75
12 15

Unless one have low DHT, testosterone should be injected.
But for some it is more convenient to use transdermal delivery.

4pumps=5grams

If you are responding normally, you will end up around 10grams.
Some people, specially with thyroid problems, have a difficulty accepting transdermal delivery.
.

 

[beckerj]

Thanks Jan .... I stopped the Nolvadex 1 week after starting the Androgel ....

I have been reading on a yahoo support group/forum for androgel that there is a week to two week stage where you are almost in a eurphoric state .... Sexually emotionally energy wise ....

I went through this stage and now am in what is called a crash .... I guess it is when your own body's T stops or is starting to stop and the androgel will be the only source of T .... Many on that site say that it is a normal occurence .... And that after about the third week the androgel becomes more stable in your system ....

My question to any and all is this ....

Would using Nolvadex 20MG on M-W-F help or hinder my progress .... does any one have any info on this ?

Some on that site said that they upped their dosage once they hit this point and adjusted the does every two weeks depending on their symptoms, if they returned ....

The first week and half two weeks were AWESOME on this stuff .... I felt 100% normal .... Sexual energy mood and all that were GONE .... Anxiety Gone .... I mean I was 100% cured .... Some say that it is the fact that you have your T and the androgel in your system ....

Has anyone else experienced this ?

 

[JanSz]

Thanks Jan .... I stopped the Nolvadex 1 week after starting the Androgel ....

I have been reading on a yahoo support group/forum for androgel that there is a week to two week stage where you are almost in a eurphoric state .... Sexually emotionally energy wise ....

I went through this stage and now am in what is called a crash .... I guess it is when your own body's T stops or is starting to stop and the androgel will be the only source of T .... Many on that site say that it is a normal occurence .... And that after about the third week the androgel becomes more stable in your system ....

My question to any and all is this ....

Would using Nolvadex 20MG on M-W-F help or hinder my progress .... does any one have any info on this ?

Some on that site said that they upped their dosage once they hit this point and adjusted the does every two weeks depending on their symptoms, if they returned ....

The first week and half two weeks were AWESOME on this stuff .... I felt 100% normal .... Sexual energy mood and all that were GONE .... Anxiety Gone .... I mean I was 100% cured .... Some say that it is the fact that you have your T and the androgel in your system ....

Has anyone else experienced this ?

I would rather follow a route colkurtz_spf
is taking (at least when starting).
He is the only one who follows Cegenetic's protocol and posts around here..

Invalid Link Removed

There are two schools of thought, (A4M and Cegenetics) on this Anti-Aging/TRT experiment.

Without too much being said, the way I see it, A4M assumes that all TRT is treated as if we all were primary to start with.

Cegenetics, with this large doses of HCG, gives a chance to testis to produce as much as they could.
.
.

 

[beckerj]

Okay now that we are getting better with the HRT ....

How do we fix the whole bedroom situation ....

I can't be the only one that is nervous and scare of going back into the bedroom and making love ....

IT's been over a month and a half since me and the other half have done the actual deed ....

Last night I played with my flesh light and the other half watched .... And kinda helped a little bit .... Later on, about two hours or so i was hard again and playing in the general area and was getting hot and bothered again .... My partner didn't want to so a little later I was able to get it up and off again while being watched ....

Now this morning I'm told let's do it this evening .... I am nervous now ....

HAs this happened to anyone else and how do you overcome it ?

 

[spinkick]

I am busy trying to get myself fixed up and also doing a whole host of research into varicoceles and testicular abnormalities. I intend to setup a website soon (and forum). I also intend to release an ebook by the end of the year.

I have discovered a few interesting things this far on my journey to understand the detrimental effects of varicocele.

Here is a list of my findings so far.

- Varicocele directly effects adrenal cortex steriodgenesis, thus effecting sperm production on the effected side and also bi-laterally.
- It's common for varicocele sufferers to have elevated levels of cortisol and progesterone. High progesterone is similar to what happens to people on "Deca". Symptoms of high progesterone are possible.
- Either due to direct tissue changes, leydig cell dysfunction occurs due to down regulation of thyroid hormone. The testicles also output TRH hormone which is effected with varicocele. It's common for varicocele suffers to have elevated TSH and low thyroid hormone output.
- Varicocele causes renal hypertension on the effected side (high blood preasure) that in turn causes an increased production of progesterone to compensate.
- Due to progesterone alterations, estridol (and total estrogens) are effected. This can negatively effect sperm production.
- It's normal for SHBG changes to occur due to hypothyroidism. It's common to find lowered SHBG in varicocele sufferers.
- Low testoserone (total and free) are common.
- Varicocele is also known to cause hyperprolactima (elevated prolactin levels that can contribute to ED, low libido, etc).
- If low thyroid hormone is present a blunted response to HCG will be noted. Thyroid hormone is important for testicular cell receptors and spermgenesis.
- Scrotal, penile and prostate muscles can be weakened due to low hormone activity.
- Reduced penile sensation can occur due to hormonal alterations such as lowered thyroid hormone, progesterone effecting estridol balance, etc.
- Increased cortisol in the left prepherial vein (alongside increased progesterone and adrenal steroid hormones) down regulate testicular function (testosterone production, etc). Cortisol is an antagonist to testosterone.
- Anti-Inflammatory medications will lower testosterone further and effect adrenal output.

Naturally i would like to hear from people who are also experiencing varicocele related hormone problems, testicular pain, etc.

I know this is an old thread, but I just found it. My jaw hit the floor when I read what you have because it is nearly a perfect fit. However, where did you source this information? I have an appointment with uro next week and would like to hand him source info just in case he questions the information.

My story...
Received a SOLID kick to the jewels sparring when I was about 17. Shortly after that I was told i had varicocele. Left, of course. All I was told is that I would probably have trouble have a daughter. It's true... i have all boys!

There were no real problems until starting around 2002-2003. There was gradual weight gain, constant fatigue, sleep issues. Finally in 2006 it got so bad I finally saw an endocrinologist that confirmed low thyroid/low pituitary function. MRI showed primary empty sella. I thought the synthroid would make me normal again. Nope. Continued. Had 2nd and 3rd opinions on endo. Saw neurosurgeon and neurologist that had no real answers.

Finally an internist found I was positive for lyme and a couple of co-infections. I've been on the abx for that since 7/09. While the lyme is probably doing a number, what you have above could certainly be contributing factor. If surgery would correct at least some of it, I would have a chance of being myself again.

- Before synthroid, TSH was running 4+, now it's around 0.6 but I don't feel any better (as I should)
- T was 180-200 and had to go back on injections, around 600 for now
- still gaining weight slowly despite the volume of exercise (normal is 200, I'm 235)
- prolactin had crept up to 30+ so i got put on dostinex (dosage recently doubled)
- fatigue is still relentless (again, lyme probably a major factor)
- have to take BP med (thyroid related most likely)

I've been trying to find the root cause of the crap I've been dealing with and the above has major potential. So any kind of source or input would be greatly appreciated!

 

[TESTme17]

I know this is an old thread, but I just found it. My jaw hit the floor when I read what you have because it is nearly a perfect fit. However, where did you source this information? I have an appointment with uro next week and would like to hand him source info just in case he questions the information.

My story...
Received a SOLID kick to the jewels sparring when I was about 17. Shortly after that I was told i had varicocele. Left, of course. All I was told is that I would probably have trouble have a daughter. It's true... i have all boys!

There were no real problems until starting around 2002-2003. There was gradual weight gain, constant fatigue, sleep issues. Finally in 2006 it got so bad I finally saw an endocrinologist that confirmed low thyroid/low pituitary function. MRI showed primary empty sella. I thought the synthroid would make me normal again. Nope. Continued. Had 2nd and 3rd opinions on endo. Saw neurosurgeon and neurologist that had no real answers.

Finally an internist found I was positive for lyme and a couple of co-infections. I've been on the abx for that since 7/09. While the lyme is probably doing a number, what you have above could certainly be contributing factor. If surgery would correct at least some of it, I would have a chance of being myself again.

- Before synthroid, TSH was running 4+, now it's around 0.6 but I don't feel any better (as I should)
- T was 180-200 and had to go back on injections, around 600 for now
- still gaining weight slowly despite the volume of exercise (normal is 200, I'm 235)
- prolactin had crept up to 30+ so i got put on dostinex (dosage recently doubled)
- fatigue is still relentless (again, lyme probably a major factor)
- have to take BP med (thyroid related most likely)

I've been trying to find the root cause of the crap I've been dealing with and the above has major potential. So any kind of source or input would be greatly appreciated!

I have bilateral varicoceles and was tested for lyme and other infections which came back negative. But the varicoceles I feel have lowered my T. I'm 21 and my total T is at 400 (tested several times). Just thinking ahead several years I don't think my T will increase based on how I feel now (depressed and unmotivated to do anything) and yet all doctors tell me this is normal levels. I've had terrible joint pain in my knees and wrists that is also unexplainable. I want to get the varicoceles repaired if nothing else for the dull pain it causes. I feel what your going through even though my situation may not be as bad. My advice is to seriously talk to your doctor about all your options. Most docs will send you away until you have something that is very obvious regardless of what your symptoms may be.

 

[srocco112]

When people talk about one of their testicles being smaller than the other due to a varicose, or atrophied, how much smaller are we talking?

Also, is there a way for this to just go away with time? Or once you have it, it is forever until surgery?

 

[spinkick]

I have bilateral varicoceles and was tested for lyme and other infections which came back negative. But the varicoceles I feel have lowered my T. I'm 21 and my total T is at 400 (tested several times). Just thinking ahead several years I don't think my T will increase based on how I feel now (depressed and unmotivated to do anything) and yet all doctors tell me this is normal levels. I've had terrible joint pain in my knees and wrists that is also unexplainable. I want to get the varicoceles repaired if nothing else for the dull pain it causes. I feel what your going through even though my situation may not be as bad. My advice is to seriously talk to your doctor about all your options. Most docs will send you away until you have something that is very obvious regardless of what your symptoms may be.

I'm 46. I've always been in decent shape. Starting about about 8 years ago there was a slow steady decline with fatigue leading the way. Numerous docs, no one had an answer until a new doc checked for the lyme. While it is probably a root cause for the bulk of my issues, the opening topic of this thread is a very good fit as well. Don't give up... you CAN find a doctor that will listen.

 

[spinkick]

When people talk about one of their testicles being smaller than the other due to a varicose, or atrophied, how much smaller are we talking?

Also, is there a way for this to just go away with time? Or once you have it, it is forever until surgery?

Based on readings, I don't think a varicocele is self-correcting. It's either a fix it or deal with it condition.

 

[STM]

When people talk about one of their testicles being smaller than the other due to a varicose, or atrophied, how much smaller are we talking?

Also, is there a way for this to just go away with time? Or once you have it, it is forever until surgery?

Hard to get a doc to say it's definitely caused by a varicocele, but I'll give you my personal experience with possible varicocele atrophy.

As long as I can remember my left teste was noticeably smaller than the right, never thought much of it until I had a fleeting case of ED with my girlfriend. She was great about it, but it got me researching causes. i thought it was everything from my melatonin use to stress to too much working out. I finally landed on a varicocele.

The ED was much more apparent after I started worrying, so I'd say some of the horror stores on this board from varicocele sufferers are very magnified due to stress and anxiety! I never thought I had a problem until I diagnosed it, then it became a huge problem that I'm going to have surgically fixed before I'll be able to forget about it. I'm just now getting over the insomnia from the worry.

Anyway, my grade 2 left side varicocele includes a smaller left nut. Volume is 15-18 ml vs 20-22 ml on the right. The range is because I have no way how accurate my ellipsoid measurement was.

Remember this, stress, anxiety, and lack of sleep will destroy libido and T levels, as much or more as your varicocele. Try not to worry about it, get it fixed, and focus on how you felt before you 'knew' you had a varicocele.

The last statement isn't true for all, but I think is for me and is important to keep in perspective! If you weren't broke before why are you now that you know about the varicocele.

 

[BDizzle]

I am a 21 year old male you has been diagnoses with a varicocele 2 years ago. Just recently, I have had problems achieving an erection and have had a lowered libido. My testosterone and free testosterone are on the low end of "normal", but I feel as if this is my problem.

I wake up each morning with a tight scrotal sack, which loosens and drops to normal position throughout the day. Does any one have this symptom as well? I also do not wake up with morning erections.

My sex drive 2 years ago was completely normal, and I could have sex multiple times a day if desired. But over the past couple months things are much different.

 

[moxsum]

Hey guys.. thought I would chime in here..

I too have a vericocele, on the left side.. although ive never done an ultrasound my urologist told me it was large.. In general it doesnt bother me much, although its a little anooying when I get the 'back of worms' sensation.

I always had a really high sex drive.. and wanted to have sex with my girlfriend numerous times a day.

Then around a year ago I started having bad anxiety problems.. sleeping problems.. panic attacks.. shortly after that started i started having erection problems and "prostatitis".. Since then i havent been quite the same, sexually, mentally, emotionally..

A lot of my anxiety has gone away thankfully.. but im still having sexual problems. No libido, sometimes my erections work well, other-times not. My ejaculations are very weak. I used to shoot out with powerful ejaculations, since this prostate things started, it just oozes out.. pretty unsatisfying.

Ive had this vericocele for years.. probably started in my teens.. potentially from some hard hits to the nuts (still remember them ). When the uro first told me i had a vericocele was when I was 18, we checked my sperm count and it was normal. This year when i started having problems we checked it again and it was pretty low at 15 mil.. but checked it again a month later and it was 45 mil.. almost normal. Havent had it tested since.

I dunno what role the vericocele has played or not.. but I feel my adrenals have become wacked out, i think my thyroid levels are also a little wacky, potentially hypothryoid. Also my SHBG level is very high at the moment around 90!! Havent seen anyone else on the board with that high of an SHBG.. But my total T level tested a few months ago was good at 745. So my total T seems good, but its all being bound up by SHBG and Albumin.. So I believe im suffering from symptoms of LOW T.. = no libido, erection issues etc.

It is interesting to see those studies about adrenal function.. It could certainly explain what happened / is happening to me..

however.. im curious.. so it says that blood could be back flowing into the adrenals having an effect on them.. that makes sense.. BUT, if you block up that vein, then isnt is possible that could also have a negative effect on the adrenals? maybe less blood flow there? I doubt thats been studied.

Also, I had the vericocele for years without a problem.. and my sex drive was very good as were my erections. Why would there be a sudden change? It is plausible to me, but there are many reasons for low T/sex drive in young men, we live in a messed up world full of chemicals and stress.. But I would like to investigate this further..

I would just get the surgery done but in general im not a fan of getting this cut out/messed with.. especially if it may not even work..

 

[250995]

Varicocele Sufferer (Help!)

Hello,

I've recently self-diagnosed myself with 3rd Grade "Varicocele" through research via the internet. I'm only 16 years of age yet I've had an enlarged and unusual left testicle for as long as I can remember. I got used to it and have only recently begun to question whether Varicocele effects hormone production.

You see, the left side of my body is considerably more muscular and "developed" than my left side. I used to put this down to being right-handed but now am beginning to believe that my Varicocele problem might be the issue. For example,

- My right arm, leg and shoulder are all larger than their counterparts.
- Hair is starting to grow on the right side of my chin and under my right arm... but not my left side.

I'm probably over-reacting but my disproportionate arms and hands in particular seem to get noticed a lot and it is affecting my self-consciousness.

What I'm trying to say is, "Is Varicocele effecting my testosterone production and can that be linked to my growth and development?"

I hope you reply and I hope that what I've said doesn't sound too farfetched or "over reacting'ish".

Thanks,

250995

 

[The Matrix]

In my clinical.experience it.may cause low testosterone. One.needs.to.get proper evaluation.and testing to.confirm results. As to.the uneven growth patterns i.have not seen.it. .Hormones levels are.felt.through.out the body not disproportionate. I would seek a specialist.in bone development who is.more.qualified to.answer that.

 

[Gutterpump]

I got my Varicocele after a cycle of Methoxy TRN and everything went downhill from there. I wouldn't recommend taking any PHs or steroids if you have a Varicocele.

I know this is an old post but I wonder if anyone can chime in on this?

My Dr noticed my varicocele after I started TRT, and said the test could've caused it. True/false?
kinda like the whole chicken/egg thing, I'm trying to figure out which came first for me to see why I had low T, but I guess it's too late to tell now since I'm on TRT.

Getting an ultrasound in October. Seems like I have a lot of reading to do here.

My labs support the findings at the start of this thread.
Lower DHT, high progesterone, adrenal issues etc

 

[The Matrix]

Its Russian roulette ..

 

[dave900]

I have very large varioceles, and After seeing 2 urologists and lots of money and blood tests. I found out my hormones are out of whack, some blood tests show high prolactin, others show very low free testosterone, and the free T is around 450. I'm a 25 year old male and my sex drive has completely died as of about a year ago. Now i researched and found a specialist that specializes in varioceles, hopefullly he can treat me and maybe give me the go ahead to get an embolization.

This thread has given me hope that an embolization will fix my problems. My question is, why do so many urologists ignore varioceles as a possible cause of hormonal problems? I was always told by urologists that i shouldn't worry about them until i have problems conceiving.