VARICOCELE...can it effect testosterone?
- Thread starter Hyde12
- Start date
Megazoid
Member
Yes, varicocele will lower testosterone levels. Mines went from 26/7nmol day of getting varicocele (due to injury that caused vascular dysfunction) to 14nmol over a period of 3 months due to the varicocele causing testicular dysfunction and atrophy. Do you have any atrophy/shrinkage on the testicle?
Megazoid
Member
It's possible the varicocele is causing lower testosterone levels but other factor's can cause this also.
No improvement in size since getting the operation but it's early days. I am hoping with the use of HCG + Clomid i will regain normal testicular function. Your testicle is actually damaged because of the varicocele and need's to heal.
No improvement in size since getting the operation but it's early days. I am hoping with the use of HCG + Clomid i will regain normal testicular function. Your testicle is actually damaged because of the varicocele and need's to heal.
JanSz
Well-known member
I am 66yo. I have got varicocele, probably 4 or 5 years ago. I had very relaxed scrotum and pain in testicle. I assumed that the pain was due to testicle having that much extra room to fall down. Now I see that varicocele must have been primary, then low testosterone then relaxed scrotum. To stop pain I was using tight briefs. I also started having ED problems, but at the time I did not know anything about testosterone, so I was using over the counter remedies that at first helped but not for long.Megazoid said:
I am on Androgel now planing to change to a 10% cream, my scrotum is very thight, do pain, testis are small and soft.
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What is the usual experience with varicocele removal? Is the testicle restarting T production again?
If that is so, is it advisable to do the surgery at my age? I am thinking that I could possibly restart my testis with HCG and use only minimal amount of T creme. That could possibly be a good way to control E2 and DHT.
Comments please.
Megazoid
Member
JanSz, it's possible that the varicocele caused your low testosterone. Varicoceles are vastly over looked in the medical world for various reasons. These caused blood flow issues to the testicle that impair function. If left for too long it can cause tissue death and damage the testicle.
By using TRT you would have already caused more harm than good to the testicle and maybe atrophy to the leydig cells that produce testosterone.
In general, testicles won't be respond over the age of 40 to HCG but it might still be worth trying. Phil (pmgamer) managed to get his testicles back working and he is in the same age bracket as you.
I don't think there would be any harm in getting that varicocele removed if you're in good health. It's a painless operation and you will walk away a few hour's later. Did the varicocele cause any atrophy for you JanSz?
There is still some "hope" that HCG "could" work for you. It might be worth giving it a try.
By using TRT you would have already caused more harm than good to the testicle and maybe atrophy to the leydig cells that produce testosterone.
In general, testicles won't be respond over the age of 40 to HCG but it might still be worth trying. Phil (pmgamer) managed to get his testicles back working and he is in the same age bracket as you.
I don't think there would be any harm in getting that varicocele removed if you're in good health. It's a painless operation and you will walk away a few hour's later. Did the varicocele cause any atrophy for you JanSz?
There is still some "hope" that HCG "could" work for you. It might be worth giving it a try.
JanSz
Well-known member
Megazoid said:
Right now, after 2.5years of Androgel and no HCG, my testicles are soft and small. Scrotum is most of the time very tight, when it relaxes it is only a little bit relaxed. There is never any pain (as it used to be).
I am not sure varicocele caused testicle atrophy, I would say no. The atrophy started after I got on Androgel. Then again, I was not watching them that close.
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I learned about my varicocele at the sex doctor (director of sex department at university hospital in Manhattan NY, plus he is active in many other places). I wish there were no such a usless doctors around. He did not ofered me any hope or help. I happen to have on my desk a questionare from that hospital asking about my apprisal of their services. I am using that hospital for my enlarged prostate and sarcoma in my tigh.
Since english is my second language I could use some help in formulating my request to them about getting involved in anti-aging medicine. Many of their clients are older men. Many of them do not have prostate cancer but are low on testosterone and not getting any help from their sexual health department. They use a lot of nice words but are not backing it with any action.
Rogue Drone
Well-known member
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Rogue Drone
Well-known member
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jaydee
Member
Rogue Drone said:
What do you mean "underlying condition"?
Thanks for the link JanSz, it seems like it would go ok, but it is not without a few risks. For my situation, I dont have any atrophy so for now its not worth the risk. I do have low T issues due to finasteride, but my problems are finasteride related, not the verecocele.
MuscleBound1337
Active member
I had a varicocele, my left testicle was a little atrophied. I went ahead with the surgery, it's a simple operation. The first week sucks after the surgery, because your nuts are swollen and sore. I would just get an ultrasound to see if they're atrophied, that's why my doc recommended I get it fixed. Varicocele can lead to infertility if not corrected.
Hyde12
Well-known member
My testicles are atrophied that I can tell, especially my left one where the varicocele is. I am not worried about infertility because ive already had a vasectomy, I just want to get my testosterone back to normal. I have an consultation with a urologist on Jan 8th and hopefully they can get me an appointment to get this fixed as soon as possible because I feel so miserable and depressed. Maybe I can get a script for Testosterone in the mean time.
Megazoid
Member
Feel for you Hyde, but don't do TRT just yet. I have been in contact with a few urologists and a TRT expert and they both think HCG should work in our case (as long as our LH/FSH are normal). How big is the varicocele in size? Have you had an ultrasound to confirm?
Get it embolized if possible (less painful and no surgery required). I had this done and the varicocele is away now, just need to use the HCG to regain nut size and function (and hopefully T levels).
If you need to know anything else, just ask.
Get it embolized if possible (less painful and no surgery required). I had this done and the varicocele is away now, just need to use the HCG to regain nut size and function (and hopefully T levels).
If you need to know anything else, just ask.
MuscleBound1337
Active member
Your nut size should come back on it's own once the varicocele is removed, right? I had one removed a few months ago, the doc didn't even mention HCG or anything to bring it back..
Hyde12
Well-known member
Megazoid said:
Yes, I did have an ultrasound and it seems pretty big because I can feel it with my hand. I think what happened is that when the military familiy practice doctor did my Vasectomey he did not tie the two ends of the Vas. together so both ends were left floating around in there and it seems like one of the ends is wrapped around the rest of the cords and restricting the blood flow and thus causing the varicocele. Thats my opinion but I will wait and see what the Urologist says in a couple of days. I plan on using Clomid once I get it fixed. Clomid is awesome. You should run Clomid instead of HCG IMO.
Megazoid
Member
I am intrested in hearing more about this Clomid scheme. My nut is atrophied pretty bad and i think running HCG would be the best bet in this situation (seen as our nut's are actually damaged to a degree). I was also scared of the side-effects with clomid (on the liver for example).
Do you find clomid restores nut size well?
Do you find clomid restores nut size well?
Cordell
Guest
I had a varicocele in my left nut when I was in my early twenties and yes, it it very uncomfortable, painfull and awkward espescialy in bed. My Doc had my sperm level tested to see if it had affected that function of the testicle and my count came back fine, but if untreated it's just gonna get worse and worse. All they did to me was make a small insition (an inch and a half) about two inches above the genitals, go in and tie off the varicocele and closed me up. After being tied off, the blood flow stops and over time the varicocele gets smaller and smaller till its gone. It's just day surgery, you feel like someone is crushing you ball for the first few days with the pain, but they give ya lots of pain killers to take care of that. No heavy lifting for two to three months after the operation. Beats the hell out of that discomfort for the rest of my life though. It's not risky surgery at all.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Hyde12
Well-known member
Well, I went to the Urologist yesterday and he said that my testosterone was in the normal level, but he put me on androgel anyway just to see if it will increase my libido (very cool doctor). He told me that a varicocele will not effect testosterone, which I didnt think to be true from what ive read on the internet. He told me that we will talk about getting the varicocele fixed when I come back to him next month with my androgel report. I dont know if being on androgel will cause them not to be able to fix the varicocle on not. I was planning on getting the varicocele fixed and then running a good PCT with clomid or Torm.Megazoid said:
Megazoid
Member
Hyde, urologists told me this and i witnessed by testicular atrophy and my levels drop down in blood work due to the varicocele getting larger and more difficult to deal with. They actually cause more pain/damage. You need to complain of pain and discomfort, this is the language of urologists.
It's important to remember that going on androgel could induce further atrophy and in turn cause more testicular damage. When your LH is normal all the leydig cell's are being stimulated and won't atrophy.
What are your current levels sitting at?
It's important to remember that going on androgel could induce further atrophy and in turn cause more testicular damage. When your LH is normal all the leydig cell's are being stimulated and won't atrophy.
What are your current levels sitting at?
Megazoid
Member
Well Hyde, i got my varicocele fixed a few months ago and still no improvements this far. The problem is you can't actually "fix" varicoceles because they have a high chance of recoccuring and because the operation doesn't always work right. I have heard from 3 guy's in the past month (via email) that had normal sized testicles but varicoceles repaired 2/3 years ago and still have low t now with no proper explanation. All three were under 30.
Varicocele causes progressive testicular damage and sometimes the only answer is repairing it but still needing TRT for life. HCG sometimes works but i think the best plan is to use TRT + HCG (maybe Test Cyp + HCG) or a compound cream. Nothing can really be done for varicocele sufferers, i've met a few of them and almost all are on TRT now. HCG might be worth giving a go to spark any life left out of your testicles.
Varicocele causes progressive testicular damage and sometimes the only answer is repairing it but still needing TRT for life. HCG sometimes works but i think the best plan is to use TRT + HCG (maybe Test Cyp + HCG) or a compound cream. Nothing can really be done for varicocele sufferers, i've met a few of them and almost all are on TRT now. HCG might be worth giving a go to spark any life left out of your testicles.
Megazoid
Member
Much like you Hyde, i was on TRT only for about a month. I took an allergic skin reaction towards both Androgel and Testim. So i stopped TRT and went solo. However about a day before stopping TRT i got blood taken/tested and my LH/FSH were still in the normal range (LH = 2.4, FSH = 2.1) so all the 50mg a day did was drop my LH from 3.9 to 2.4.
I know for a fact that my LH/FSH are back in range now as they always went back up after stopping TRT.
The fact is varicoceles cause progressive testicular damage and only in some situations does this reverse but it appears not to be normal.
I know for a fact that my LH/FSH are back in range now as they always went back up after stopping TRT.
The fact is varicoceles cause progressive testicular damage and only in some situations does this reverse but it appears not to be normal.
Hyde12
Well-known member
When you stopped using androgel for that month did you use any post cycle therapy? If you didnt then your testicles would have a hard time recovering even if you didnt have the varicocele. HCG is not a proper post cycle therapy and from what I have read on here and other places it can cause shutdown on its own. You need to get some Clomid/Nolvadex or some Tormifene. You wont get much post cycle therapy advice on here, but you will in the post cycle therapy section of this forum. I believe that with God's help after this surgery that my testicles will heal. Im not just going to sit back and kiss my natural Testosterone good bye.Megazoid said:
Megazoid
Member
I got a blood test run about a week later and my LH had went back to 3.9 on it's own (the original level before TRT).
I do respect your attitude but the problem really is that varicoceles are misunderstood and cause all sort's of testicular problems including internal fibrosis, blood vessel problems, over-heating, etc. Because our nut's have atrophied, damage has been done. This isn't like what secondary hypogonadism suffers experience but actual tissue death (and in most cases cell death). The LeyDig cells dysfunction and cause spikes and valleys in the the T levels.
I've spent almost 4 month so far researching this because much like you i didn't want to give up and had hope, hower this faded when almost all research and urologists pointed to the fact that re-growth dosen't happen in varicocele patients due to the progressive damage caused by varicoceles. It "might" (just "might" be possible) to reverse some of this using HCG.
In "some" cases HCG will regain size and function. If you are young and your testicles are still somewhat in-tact then HCG will work in about 5 out of 10 cases. One urologist suggested 500iu 3 times a week, while another suggested 250iu daily for 3/6 weeks then followed by Nolvadex (20mg) for 4 weeks to restart the HPTA.
I have a few questions for you.
1) How long have you had the varicoceles for?
2) How much atrophy/shrinkage have you experienced since the varicoceles?
3) Have you noticed any skin changes on your scrotum/penis?
4) Is your scrotum constantly "tight" all the time?
5) Can you post recent blood work?
I will keep you posted on my own findings too.
I do respect your attitude but the problem really is that varicoceles are misunderstood and cause all sort's of testicular problems including internal fibrosis, blood vessel problems, over-heating, etc. Because our nut's have atrophied, damage has been done. This isn't like what secondary hypogonadism suffers experience but actual tissue death (and in most cases cell death). The LeyDig cells dysfunction and cause spikes and valleys in the the T levels.
I've spent almost 4 month so far researching this because much like you i didn't want to give up and had hope, hower this faded when almost all research and urologists pointed to the fact that re-growth dosen't happen in varicocele patients due to the progressive damage caused by varicoceles. It "might" (just "might" be possible) to reverse some of this using HCG.
In "some" cases HCG will regain size and function. If you are young and your testicles are still somewhat in-tact then HCG will work in about 5 out of 10 cases. One urologist suggested 500iu 3 times a week, while another suggested 250iu daily for 3/6 weeks then followed by Nolvadex (20mg) for 4 weeks to restart the HPTA.
I have a few questions for you.
1) How long have you had the varicoceles for?
2) How much atrophy/shrinkage have you experienced since the varicoceles?
3) Have you noticed any skin changes on your scrotum/penis?
4) Is your scrotum constantly "tight" all the time?
5) Can you post recent blood work?
I will keep you posted on my own findings too.
Hyde12
Well-known member
1) I have had my varicocele for about 6 months nowMegazoid said:
2)I have a little atrophy in my left testicle, but not too bad
3)no skin changes but it seems to be kind of lifeless if you know what I mean
4)not all the time. my testicles still drop, but not like they used to
5)my last total test reading was 303 I cant remember what the fsh and lh were, but they were withing range
how do you feel on TRT?
Megazoid
Member
Strangely i had my varicocele for about 6 months too and it caused all manner of problems, in a sentence, my nut's went nut's!
When i went on Androgel i felt pretty good. I had a strange reaction though with my skin (Rash) and not to mention my HPTA still kicking about. I didn't get any shutdown and my total T went back up to 25.1 and my LH/FSH still remained in a very normal (if not 'highish') range. I was getting good benefits from TRT but i didn't like the fact that i was flushing alot and the skin reactions. Otherwise i did notice erection improvements and morning wood more often. My penis also plumped back out to it's normal size and wasn't shrunk up (not sure if you are experiencing this also?).
The problem with TRT is that your nut sack get's like ultra tight all the time and if you have a varicocele it can hurt like hell.
If i am doing TRT again i will be using HCG to promote testicular size and health improvements and to prevent the tight sack thing.
In general are your testicles normal size (2+ inches)? Do they feel different at all (weight, size, density, etc)?
How large is the varicocele (roughly)?
Was your LH around 3/4 (this is considered the "normal level", 2 or below isn't normal)?
I am considering running either Test E + HCG (2/3 times a week) or Testim/Androgel + HCG (3 times a week or more).
Like you i want my natural levels back but this might not be fully possible unless given time so i need to compensate.
When i went on Androgel i felt pretty good. I had a strange reaction though with my skin (Rash) and not to mention my HPTA still kicking about. I didn't get any shutdown and my total T went back up to 25.1 and my LH/FSH still remained in a very normal (if not 'highish') range. I was getting good benefits from TRT but i didn't like the fact that i was flushing alot and the skin reactions. Otherwise i did notice erection improvements and morning wood more often. My penis also plumped back out to it's normal size and wasn't shrunk up (not sure if you are experiencing this also?).
The problem with TRT is that your nut sack get's like ultra tight all the time and if you have a varicocele it can hurt like hell.
If i am doing TRT again i will be using HCG to promote testicular size and health improvements and to prevent the tight sack thing.
In general are your testicles normal size (2+ inches)? Do they feel different at all (weight, size, density, etc)?
How large is the varicocele (roughly)?
Was your LH around 3/4 (this is considered the "normal level", 2 or below isn't normal)?
I am considering running either Test E + HCG (2/3 times a week) or Testim/Androgel + HCG (3 times a week or more).
Like you i want my natural levels back but this might not be fully possible unless given time so i need to compensate.
Hyde12
Well-known member
Ok, I found my blood work...my LH was 2.8 and FSH 3.2 and I even got prolactin which was 9.5 (normal)Megazoid said:
The varicocele is pretty big and it seems like its getting bigger all the time. The right side was good before but within the last week, I noticed some dilation there too. I hopt im not getting one on the right side. To be honest I think my varicocele was caused by pro hormone use. The reason I think this is because when my body started to recover after the last cycle, it did it really fast and the valves in my nuts didnt have time to open. I dont know if this is the case but its just a theory. Another thing that I think could have caused it is ROS (reactive oxygen species) and that is a toxic by product of nitric oxide. I was using No2 type products for about a year straight without taking anything to fight the free radical build up. I did some research and found that ROS is one of the causes of Varicoceles! To answer your question do you mean Is each nut 2-2 1/2 inches? For the week that I was on TRT I felt like crap (even worse than before) I think that only 5g of andro gel is only going to get you to the 300 range, which I was already in, so i think that i actually need more like 10g of andro gel. Im going back to the urologist this morning and I pray to God that he can do something for me because I have never been this depressed in my whole life.
Megazoid
Member
I can relate 110% with you Hyde, this is an absolute nightmare and i wish it would stop too. Depression is the right word to use, my body is in a shambles because of 6 months of suffering from this low t (or "low normal" t). Did you run HCG/Clomid end of cycle?
I can assure you when i find the answers i will let you know but i have been researching like hell for the past 5/6 months trying to find suitable ways of treating this and coming up with very little except that many guy's with varicoceles (fixed or not) still have low t later on in life. You didn't tell me your age or your previous results before the varicocele did damage?
My problem is that my right testicle was already atrophied and dysfunctional from being undescended so i was relying on the one and when that atrophied too i knew i would be stumped and in for trouble.
Your LH is rather low to be honest. 3.9 is the "normal" level that most guy's have. However the low LH might be a good sign for you as no damage has been done to the leydig cells most likely.
How is your E2? Low E2 can cause problems like high E2 and more to the point cause "more" problems for guy's like us because low e2 causes blood flow issue as well as sperm production issues.
Being honest with you i don't think the varicocele is your only worry, i feel your piturity hasn't been restarted properly because your LH/FSH should be higher. This might explain the atrophy too. Have you tried running HCG/Clomid to restart fully and recover from the atrophy?
Alot of guy's can have varicoceles for literally years (even bi-laterial) and have no problems, so i have really started to question why this happened to me. I believe a domino effect occurs in some cases (like mine) and i praying that HCG is the answer (and hopefully for you too).
Varicoceles cannot start large, they always start really small, mine was undetectable to start with. When i got the operation for mine i seen it on the monitor and it looked like a tentacle coming down from my kidney! It messess the veins up high up so in turn your theory could be right about ROS.
I have an appointment with a urologist to check that this operation has worked because i am not 100% convinced. I am getting new blood work done next week to check my current levels. I think they are about the same as before.
The fact you have noticed problems on the right side is pointing more towards my own theory. Low T and low E2 in turn effect blood flow around the body (slow it down somewhat) when the ratio is effected this might explain why i got atrophy and why you might be getting another varicocele. I actually noticed my nut's felt alot better when on androgel and i wasn't getting atrophy that i could notice. Maybe it helped blood flow by raising my total up to 25nmol (about 650/700)?
Maybe we can deal with this together? I am sure the both of us can figure this out. I am seriously thinking about either running HCG daily (250iu daily) alongside Testim at either 5 or 10mg to see how i get on for a few months. I want to try and get back nut size and reap the benefits of TRT until my nut's come back to normal size. I considered running HCG alone but my fear is that it will cause shutdown and 250 might be enough to keep my t up throughout the day. I might try this for a few months till my nut's recover.
Part of me think's my right nut is still working somewhat but i had a very small varicocele on it about 2 year's ago and it went away on it's own. I am going to get this checked and my other testicle to make sure the operation has worked. I don't mind if i need another one but would prefer not to of course.
In the mean time stack up on vit e and c to help the veins and cut out all caffeine based drinks and alcholol, these will aggrevate the small veins in the testicle and lead to problems. I take Vit e at 800iu daily to prevent leydig cell fibrosis occuring and even put on some Vit E cream onto my scrotum to help.
I can assure you when i find the answers i will let you know but i have been researching like hell for the past 5/6 months trying to find suitable ways of treating this and coming up with very little except that many guy's with varicoceles (fixed or not) still have low t later on in life. You didn't tell me your age or your previous results before the varicocele did damage?
My problem is that my right testicle was already atrophied and dysfunctional from being undescended so i was relying on the one and when that atrophied too i knew i would be stumped and in for trouble.
Your LH is rather low to be honest. 3.9 is the "normal" level that most guy's have. However the low LH might be a good sign for you as no damage has been done to the leydig cells most likely.
How is your E2? Low E2 can cause problems like high E2 and more to the point cause "more" problems for guy's like us because low e2 causes blood flow issue as well as sperm production issues.
Being honest with you i don't think the varicocele is your only worry, i feel your piturity hasn't been restarted properly because your LH/FSH should be higher. This might explain the atrophy too. Have you tried running HCG/Clomid to restart fully and recover from the atrophy?
Alot of guy's can have varicoceles for literally years (even bi-laterial) and have no problems, so i have really started to question why this happened to me. I believe a domino effect occurs in some cases (like mine) and i praying that HCG is the answer (and hopefully for you too).
Varicoceles cannot start large, they always start really small, mine was undetectable to start with. When i got the operation for mine i seen it on the monitor and it looked like a tentacle coming down from my kidney! It messess the veins up high up so in turn your theory could be right about ROS.
I have an appointment with a urologist to check that this operation has worked because i am not 100% convinced. I am getting new blood work done next week to check my current levels. I think they are about the same as before.
The fact you have noticed problems on the right side is pointing more towards my own theory. Low T and low E2 in turn effect blood flow around the body (slow it down somewhat) when the ratio is effected this might explain why i got atrophy and why you might be getting another varicocele. I actually noticed my nut's felt alot better when on androgel and i wasn't getting atrophy that i could notice. Maybe it helped blood flow by raising my total up to 25nmol (about 650/700)?
Maybe we can deal with this together? I am sure the both of us can figure this out. I am seriously thinking about either running HCG daily (250iu daily) alongside Testim at either 5 or 10mg to see how i get on for a few months. I want to try and get back nut size and reap the benefits of TRT until my nut's come back to normal size. I considered running HCG alone but my fear is that it will cause shutdown and 250 might be enough to keep my t up throughout the day. I might try this for a few months till my nut's recover.
Part of me think's my right nut is still working somewhat but i had a very small varicocele on it about 2 year's ago and it went away on it's own. I am going to get this checked and my other testicle to make sure the operation has worked. I don't mind if i need another one but would prefer not to of course.
In the mean time stack up on vit e and c to help the veins and cut out all caffeine based drinks and alcholol, these will aggrevate the small veins in the testicle and lead to problems. I take Vit e at 800iu daily to prevent leydig cell fibrosis occuring and even put on some Vit E cream onto my scrotum to help.
Hyde12
Well-known member
Cool. Thanks for all your help and advice. I got back from the urologist and he gave me 3 options to fix my varicocele. one was a cut to the sack another was to the groin and the last one (the one that sounds the best) was the embolization. He said that I would have to come back and talk to his partner for the embolization because he usually does not do the embolizations but he does the groin cut. He went on to tell me that going in through the groin is a good idea, but you run the risk of getting the artery to the testicle severed and that would ruin that testicle forever. So, I am going to try to get the embolization done because that seems like it has the best reviews. Which procedure did you have done? which one do you recommend? I am 28 years old and I really do not want to have low T for the rest of my life. After my last cycle I made the mistake of only using ATD so it messed up my HPTA. I did use Toremifine for a while and that helped really well for about a week and then it stopped working. If this keeps up im going to get some Proviron. At least I will have a sex drive. I dont think that I suffer from low E2. I think my E2 is high because I am really starting to gain some fat around my lower abs and sides and I feel bloated. Im taking Rebound Reloaded and Dim right now, but neither of those are doing anything. I would be careful if I were you with the HCG because it is not your natural LH and at high doses over long periods of time it can kill the leydig cells and it can convert to estrogen just like androgel. Tormifene seems to be the best thing out there right now and it has been the only thing that has at least worked for a little while with me.
DragonRider
Active member
This is so strange this came up. I was diagnosed with a varicocele when I was 15. I'm almost 50, so I've had it most of my life.
But, when the doctor told me it was like, no big deal, it just a varicocele. I ended up going on HRT when I was only 38. I suspect due to my inability to build muscle for the 20 years I had been working out at that time I have always had low test levels.
No one ever treated it like it was a big deal during any of the hundreds of physicals I have had over the years and no one ever suggested surgery to repair it.
But, when the doctor told me it was like, no big deal, it just a varicocele. I ended up going on HRT when I was only 38. I suspect due to my inability to build muscle for the 20 years I had been working out at that time I have always had low test levels.
No one ever treated it like it was a big deal during any of the hundreds of physicals I have had over the years and no one ever suggested surgery to repair it.
Hyde12
Well-known member
I have been laughed at by doctors too for suggesting that a varicocele will cause low testosterone. I dont understand how they can think otherwise because a varicocele will degrade the testicle and most of your testosterone is produced in the testes so obviously they wont put out the same test as a healthy testicle. The key to getting it fixed is to make sure you tell the doc that it hurts really bad. Mine really does hurt bad. Do you have a large varicocele that can be felt by hand? Those are the worst ones and that is like the one that I have.DragonRider said:
Megazoid
Member
Sorry for the late reply Hyde, i have been snowed under with house work and decorating (of all things!).
Basically the veins from the testicle run down from your left kidney/adrenal to your testicle which put's it at risk from toxic by products (hence why the blood supply needs to be functional and your T optimized for best effect).
You might notice some guy's who are secondary experience increases in testicular size without HCG this could be todo with the improved cardiovascular function as well as the fact that estridol and T/E ratio is very important for sperm production and in turn testicular function (i have low E2 which could cause sperm production problems in itself). HCG might be the answer but i want to get the blood flow evaluated on ultrasound to fully rule out any testicular problems.
The problem is that when a varicocele occurs on the left testicle it tends to work it's way up towards the kidney so you end up with a tentacle size vein strangulated and wirey all the way up to your kidney (hence why the varicocele get's bigger and bigger). Varicocele embolization tends to mean "plugging" the vein at kidney level to stop blood going down that way and being redirected to healthy veins. For me this removed the varicocele in my sack and the vein seemed to die off, however i am not 100% convinced the operation has worked and going back to see my urologist to find out if it might be worth entering the scrotum and tying the vein off to be sure NOTHING can be flowing around in there and giving the testicle a chance at least to work well. Maybe he can put in more coils or something. I will keep you posted on my progress.
I recommend the varicocele embolization for relief of varicocele pain and discomfort but i cannot confirm if i have noticed an increase in testosterone or sperm production since the operation (nor testicular size). My nut's for lack of a better explination are going nut's! My left one is changing size and shape throughout the day and it's causing all manner of problems for me i think. They are basically going from full to atrophied for some reason due to bad blood flow. I believe T/DHT/E have a huge role to play in this too though. Only time we will tell when i run HCG + TRT to see how thing's work out (or try to restart). I am going to get fresh blood work done next week and i will post up before and after blood work.
The best options to go for regarding varicocele operations are probably in this order:
Varicocele Embolization
Microsurgical Varicocelectomy
Varicocele Ligitation (Scotal)
Realistcally you are suffering from similar symptoms to a secondary hypogonadism sufferer. Because you LH is low (should be at 3+ to be normal) in theory if you get this back up to 3.9/4 (Which mine is at and i have never done steriods or anything) then you could double you T (roughly) up to about 600. The varicocele WILL cause some degree of leydig cell dysfunction but after this is fixed i am sure you will go back up to 700+ if your HPTA is back and functional (i.e. LH at 4).
Let me know how you get on and if you have any more questions.
Basically the veins from the testicle run down from your left kidney/adrenal to your testicle which put's it at risk from toxic by products (hence why the blood supply needs to be functional and your T optimized for best effect).
You might notice some guy's who are secondary experience increases in testicular size without HCG this could be todo with the improved cardiovascular function as well as the fact that estridol and T/E ratio is very important for sperm production and in turn testicular function (i have low E2 which could cause sperm production problems in itself). HCG might be the answer but i want to get the blood flow evaluated on ultrasound to fully rule out any testicular problems.
The problem is that when a varicocele occurs on the left testicle it tends to work it's way up towards the kidney so you end up with a tentacle size vein strangulated and wirey all the way up to your kidney (hence why the varicocele get's bigger and bigger). Varicocele embolization tends to mean "plugging" the vein at kidney level to stop blood going down that way and being redirected to healthy veins. For me this removed the varicocele in my sack and the vein seemed to die off, however i am not 100% convinced the operation has worked and going back to see my urologist to find out if it might be worth entering the scrotum and tying the vein off to be sure NOTHING can be flowing around in there and giving the testicle a chance at least to work well. Maybe he can put in more coils or something. I will keep you posted on my progress.
I recommend the varicocele embolization for relief of varicocele pain and discomfort but i cannot confirm if i have noticed an increase in testosterone or sperm production since the operation (nor testicular size). My nut's for lack of a better explination are going nut's! My left one is changing size and shape throughout the day and it's causing all manner of problems for me i think. They are basically going from full to atrophied for some reason due to bad blood flow. I believe T/DHT/E have a huge role to play in this too though. Only time we will tell when i run HCG + TRT to see how thing's work out (or try to restart). I am going to get fresh blood work done next week and i will post up before and after blood work.
The best options to go for regarding varicocele operations are probably in this order:
Varicocele Embolization
Microsurgical Varicocelectomy
Varicocele Ligitation (Scotal)
Realistcally you are suffering from similar symptoms to a secondary hypogonadism sufferer. Because you LH is low (should be at 3+ to be normal) in theory if you get this back up to 3.9/4 (Which mine is at and i have never done steriods or anything) then you could double you T (roughly) up to about 600. The varicocele WILL cause some degree of leydig cell dysfunction but after this is fixed i am sure you will go back up to 700+ if your HPTA is back and functional (i.e. LH at 4).
Let me know how you get on and if you have any more questions.
DragonRider
Active member
Very large and obvious, but never hurt.Hyde12 said:
Doctors don't have to live with it, so they don't care.
JanSz
Well-known member
====================Megazoid said:
Newer done steroid or T supplementation at that time.
Now I am on Androgel.
I complained about ED, sore testicles when not using tight panties.
First test ordered by local doctor, done at LabCorp (7/10/03)
Testosterone, serum=255 (241-827) ng/dL
I then went to university hospital,
there the director of sex health told me that I have varicocele.
He ordered tests and I done them at local hospital's lab (Jan8/04)
E2=24 (0-52) pg/mL
LU=5.7 (1.5-9.3) miu/mL
Prolactin=7.2 (2.1-17.7) ng/mL
Testosterone=311 (241-827) ng/dL
and at Quest Diagnostics
Free Testosterone (EIA)=6.0(2.6-64.8) pg/mL
---------------------------------------------------
What should have been my best line of action if I could start it from scratch again?
---------------------------------
At this time 7.5gram of Androgel and two pills of DIM+I3C,
DIM-vise equal to one pill of Indolplex with DIM
keeps me operating semi-ok.
My testicles are shrunk and scrotum is tight, but no pain.
Megazoid
Member
I am going to be setting up a website highlighting the dangers and being a one-stop-source for varicocele sufferers. Hopefully we can get the message across with time.
JazSz, it sound's like the varicocele might have been the cause of your low t. However you are an older dude too so it might be a combination of factors. Did you suffer any atrophy at all or were your nut's normal size before you started TRT? How long did you go "suffering" (with the ED/Libido and general Low t) before you went onto TRT?
In a realistic world i would have got the varicoceles fixed and see how you got on. Even now it might be worth fixing them then trying HCG if your LH/FSH aren't elevated due to testicular failure.
Why do you say you function "semi-ok" JazSz? I thought you were feeling really good on your TRT plan and were getting erections when you wanted them (is the libido still there?).
Hyde, would you be up for helping me with the site (moderating the forum, helping out, etc)?
JazSz, it sound's like the varicocele might have been the cause of your low t. However you are an older dude too so it might be a combination of factors. Did you suffer any atrophy at all or were your nut's normal size before you started TRT? How long did you go "suffering" (with the ED/Libido and general Low t) before you went onto TRT?
In a realistic world i would have got the varicoceles fixed and see how you got on. Even now it might be worth fixing them then trying HCG if your LH/FSH aren't elevated due to testicular failure.
Why do you say you function "semi-ok" JazSz? I thought you were feeling really good on your TRT plan and were getting erections when you wanted them (is the libido still there?).
Hyde, would you be up for helping me with the site (moderating the forum, helping out, etc)?