VARICOCELE...can it effect testosterone?

I don't have enough posts in order to post links here but you can go to the books section of google and type in Varicocele they've got information on it if you don't mind doing a little reading.
 
westell1 said:
Guys should i fix my penis first my e.d and all those problems or the varicocele first? The urologist i am seeing now is only concerned about the penis. He will be injecting something into my penis next friday. All i am doing now is waiting and life is just at a stop for me. I am worried about my varicocele grade 3 since my testicles have shrunk.
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I would probably deal with the Varicocele first Westell1 and see how things improve from there.
 
djawol said:
Hi all,

A quick update from me. Note I'm in the uk.

A recap, I had the emoblisation surgery which was unsucessful, then the keyhole surgery to tie the vein off in my groin about 5 months ago. This was the end of the variococele, I'm pleased with the results and the vein is still there but shrinking.

As for the other symptoms that seem to point to low T or Thyroid issues I've since had countless blood and urine tests and been referred numerous times. My thyoid tests are fine and I was told my T levels are quite raised so no issue there. I recently saw another urologist who said that it's time to be referred to an Endocronologist so hoping that this will be the end of it.

I recently tried Clomid again out of interest and this made no difference again even though for about three weeks before my surgery it made me feel normal again. I'm going to try Formex out of interest while I'm waiting for the Endo appointment to come through but 18 months of this is now getting very frustrating.

I'd be interested Stuart in whether in your professional opinion Varicoceles can cause the symptoms that so many of us are reporting or is this just a massive coincidence? My urologists were convinced that it just wasn't possible.

Thanks
dj.
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Sorry been laid low for a while with viral meningitis! Wouldn't recommend that one.

There is no mechanical connection between the testcular vein that causes varicocele and the pudendal artery and vein branches supplying the corpora cavernosa for erections, so there is no known causative link.

There is no doubt a large varicocele can inhibit sperm production and make the testis appear smaller, and probably make it actually smaller if large enough.

Hormone function should NOT be affected unless a nut is missing or there are huge bilateral varicoceles.

I take on board the comments of others above. However varicocele is extremely common so the chance of their being one in the prescence of low test levels is 1 in 3, since that is the frequency of varicocele. That of course does not make it the cause of the low levels.

Equally ED is very common and therefore often co- exists with varicocele. There are many causes:

arterial disease (diabetes, atheroma, arteritis)
venous disease (thrombotic disease, previous priapism)
trauma (fractured penis) major testicular injury
hormonal
nerve damage (diabetes, pelvic surgery)
psychological (a very common cause at all ages)
drugs (prescribed and illicit)

quite a cplex field. Here in the uk varicocele dealt with by all urologists and some general surgeons like me. ED should be dealt with by a specialist (usually urologist) in andrology.

In summary varicocele and many other urology symptdms occur together but of course are not necessarily all due to one disease.

Hope that helps a bit!
 
hey guys if you did have a penile fracture because of trauma caused to it, has anyone heard of it getting fixed after a long period of time? I read that if you had penile fracture, you are suppose to go to emergency room immediately like within 8 hours to get it fixed.

Has anyone had a penis fracture here or heard of someone or read anything about a penis fracture, but he did not get it fixed till later on? When i told urologist i could have gotten penis fracture, he said there is a chance so at least i know this urologist believes me a bit. When he touched my penis, he said he didnt "feel" a fracture though.
 
Hi all, just a brief intro: I'm a caucasian living in China. Although I don't work out in the gym, I do like to walk 1 or 2 hours at a fast pace.

Some weeks ago I started to feel some mild pain/annoyance around my privates. At the time I thought it was because my underwear was soaked with sweat (this is South China I'm talking) and crawling upwards and somehow strangling my balls.

I simply switched to different shorts that I could readjust during walking if necessary and thought the feeling would go away after a while. It didn't. I didn't look at my balls as it didn't seem where the feeling was coming from. When I did finally looked at them after some weeks I noticed that the left site was considerably bigger.

Now I'm not a fan of Chinese hospitals, but I decided to go to at least get their opinion. The doc says it's a varicocele and suggested to just take it easy for a while. How helpful. He did mention the option of surgery if I wanted. (If I do, I'll surely do it somewhere else.)

Meanwhile though he's put me on a 10 day, double dose of Aescuven forte. Not much I can find about it, though 1 Chinese study suggests that it can to some degree 'retract' the vein as well as improve sperm quality. (How would a vein retract?)

On day 3 day. Let's see how this plays out.
 
westell1 said:
hey guys if you did have a penile fracture because of trauma caused to it, has anyone heard of it getting fixed after a long period of time? I read that if you had penile fracture, you are suppose to go to emergency room immediately like within 8 hours to get it fixed.

Has anyone had a penis fracture here or heard of someone or read anything about a penis fracture, but he did not get it fixed till later on? When i told urologist i could have gotten penis fracture, he said there is a chance so at least i know this urologist believes me a bit. When he touched my penis, he said he didnt "feel" a fracture though.
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results definitely better with immediate surgery and suture of the ruptured corpora. I have done that successfully quite a few times.

Later repair less reliable due to deeper scarring after the injury, but I have no personal experience. However if the site of rupture can be identified not much to lose by attemting repair
 
The only home remedy for a varicocele is a Cold Sitz bath and I'm talking Ice Cube Cold atleast 5 to 10 minutes a day. To increase nerve tone you alternate from hot to cold, this would require 2 tubs. This will be an inconvenience for most people. Back in the old days some men were brought all the way back from almost complete impotence simply by using this remedy however it won't work like that for everyone but it will atleast give you some hope. Read the book by George Miller Beard (Sexual Neurasthenia) (Nervous Exhaustion) it goes into great detail and has document subject cases inside the text.
 
StuartGould, do you know if it is possible for a urologist/surgeon or whatnot to perform the surgery much later on? Yes later repair is less reliable but has anyone heard of a story of surgery repaired at a much later time?
 
Is anyone familiar with the Gat-Goren method of vericocele eradication? It sounds extremely promising. It may only be available in Israel where Dr.s Gat and Goren practice, though.
 
@brockman I've been looking for that as well. Would like to do that in Hong Kong, but have not been able to find it yet.
 
westell1 said:
StuartGould, do you know if it is possible for a urologist/surgeon or whatnot to perform the surgery much later on? Yes later repair is less reliable but has anyone heard of a story of surgery repaired at a much later time?
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Yes it has been done and reported in the surgical literature. The problem is finding the site of injury - this may require injection of x ray dye into the corpora and using x ray to find the leak !!

Another problem is there is a higher degree of penile linking / curvature etc due to the more dense scar tissue than u get after immediate repair
 
xnpu said:
Hi all, just a brief intro: I'm a caucasian living in China. Although I don't work out in the gym, I do like to walk 1 or 2 hours at a fast pace.

Now I'm not a fan of Chinese hospitals, but I decided to go to at least get their opinion. The doc says it's a varicocele and suggested to just take it easy for a while. How helpful. He did mention the option of surgery if I wanted. (If I do, I'll surely do it somewhere else.)

Meanwhile though he's put me on a 10 day, double dose of Aescuven forte. Not much I can find about it, though 1 Chinese study suggests that it can to some degree 'retract' the vein as well as improve sperm quality. (How would a vein retract?)

On day 3 day. Let's see how this plays out.
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Veins have muscle in their Walls, so a drug causing these to contract would make the veins "smaller". But only til the drug wore off.

Not going to make the veins go away of course........
 
@StuartGould thanks for sharing that info.

I've been Googling around for non-surgery options, but there doesn't seem to be much going beyond just making you feel better.
 
xnpu said:
@brockman I've been looking for that as well. Would like to do that in Hong Kong, but have not been able to find it yet.
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xnpu:

I found Dr. Gat's email address in one of his studies in a database online. I emailed him about the Gat-Goren method, and he said that at this time, it is only practiced in Israel. They run a clinic in Tel Aviv. They do accept out-of-country patients, and I am seriously considering making the trip to get this procedure.

Google around and find their website. They list all of their related research. There is a ton of evidence that varicoceles are almost always bilateral, they they are the major cause of infertility in men, and that they are highly correlated with low sperm count/quality and low testosterone.
 
xnpu said:
@StuartGould thanks for sharing that info.

I've been Googling around for non-surgery options, but there doesn't seem to be much going beyond just making you feel better.
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Sadly that is true. A mechanical problem that needs a mechanical solution.
 
brockman said:
xnpu:

I found Dr. Gat's email address in one of his studies in a database online. I emailed him about the Gat-Goren method, and he said that at this time, it is only practiced in Israel. They run a clinic in Tel Aviv. They do accept out-of-country patients, and I am seriously considering making the trip to get this procedure.

Google around and find their website. They list all of their related research. There is a ton of evidence that varicoceles are almost always bilateral, they they are the major cause of infertility in men, and that they are highly correlated with low sperm count/quality and low testosterone.
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Yes interesting technique. It is a variant of radiological embolisation, but actively seeks out a varicocele on the "asymptomatic" side as opposed to just treating the obvious one.

Results do look encouraging but has yet to be adopted elsewhere. As with all new procedures will have to stand the test of time, equal success in other hands etc.
 
StuartGould said:
Yes interesting technique. It is a variant of radiological embolisation, but actively seeks out a varicocele on the "asymptomatic" side as opposed to just treating the obvious one.

Results do look encouraging but has yet to be adopted elsewhere. As with all new procedures will have to stand the test of time, equal success in other hands etc.
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@StuartGould:

What can you tell us about the differences between traditional radiological embolization and the Gat-Goren method, in terms of both risk profile and actual mechanism? I'm still a little fuzzy on the differences, and I'd love to hear what you know.
 
brockman said:
xnpu:

I found Dr. Gat's email address in one of his studies in a database online. I emailed him about the Gat-Goren method, and he said that at this time, it is only practiced in Israel. They run a clinic in Tel Aviv. They do accept out-of-country patients, and I am seriously considering making the trip to get this procedure.

Google around and find their website. They list all of their related research. There is a ton of evidence that varicoceles are almost always bilateral, they they are the major cause of infertility in men, and that they are highly correlated with low sperm count/quality and low testosterone.
Click to expand...

I'll check out their website. Please update us on your decision, I'd be interested to hearing a first hand account of the procedure.
 
StuartGould said:
Sorry been laid low for a while with viral meningitis! Wouldn't recommend that one.
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Ouch! Glad you're better now, that doesn't sound good at all! I guess working where you do infections are a perk of the job?

Hormone function should NOT be affected unless a nut is missing or there are huge bilateral varicoceles.
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Well I've got neither so there must be another cause.

I take on board the comments of others above. However varicocele is extremely common so the chance of their being one in the prescence of low test levels is 1 in 3, since that is the frequency of varicocele. That of course does not make it the cause of the low levels.
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That makes perfect sense. I guess I jumped on the fact the varicocele appeared at the time the symptoms did and assumed one caused the other. My test levels are fine so hopefully the next round of tests will be able to find something.

quite a cplex field. Here in the uk varicocele dealt with by all urologists and some general surgeons like me. ED should be dealt with by a specialist (usually urologist) in andrology.
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I'm starting to get an understanding just how complicated this is. It's just so frustrating having to rule everything out until the cause is found. Hopefully my appointment on the 10th with the specialist in andrology will shed more light.

In summary varicocele and many other urology symptdms occur together but of course are not necessarily all due to one disease.
Hope that helps a bit!
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That helps a lot, thanks for putting it into laymans terms for me!

Cheers
dj
 
so i had an ultrasound done on my testes and they said i had a varicocele on the left side but not on the right side. How is this possible, because when i feel the red one the vein is really thick now but how could they not spot it on the ultrasound (they even did it with me standing). is there any harm in having a vein thicken ?
 
brockman said:
@StuartGould:

What can you tell us about the differences between traditional radiological embolization and the Gat-Goren method, in terms of both risk profile and actual mechanism? I'm still a little fuzzy on the differences, and I'd love to hear what you know.
Click to expand...

I am interested to in these techniques as I have to perform surgery also of varicocele-ther is some form of glue I think that goes in veins- is there any risk of radiation to testicals ?
what is the price of surgery in Israel of Gat-Goren method ?
has someone perform that surgery allready here ?
 
Okay this is so upsetting. I went to the urologist thinking i was going to have an injection into my penis as one of the test. Instead all he did today was a specialized test on sensation of the penis. It was like he put a thing on my finger and got some 5.5 as sensation. Then he used the same thing and touched my penis with it and I would tell him if my penis felt any sensation. He did this 4 times and each time the numbers were something like 5.0, 5.0, 6.0 and 6.5. He told me the sensation in my penis was normal according to this test.

He scheduled an appointment to see him next week for the ultrasound. At first he called it a something test. It starts with a P and its a long word and i asked him this is the ultrasound and he said yes. He said this is for the blood flow which i ask him is this the most important test and he said yes. He also said after this next test, my next appointment might be the injection into penis to get into an erection.

I am very upset at these urologists. Why can't they do all these tests in 1 day. The test that was done to me was done in less than 2 minutes! Urologists these days only care about money and its frustrating.
 
They want to drag as much money out of you and the insurance companies as they can before they will do you any good.
 
is there anything i can do about this then msl2009? If i paid for this out of my own money i would be pissed off. All he did on Friday was do the test which was 2 minutes maximum and then went back to his office and he discuss that my blood and urine tests and that test is pretty much normal and that next week i would do ultrasound.

That probably cost insurance companies 200 dollars or so and he basically did NOTHING.

Hey msl2009, if I was paying this out of my pocket, would he be still doing the same thing?
 
westell1 said:
is there anything i can do about this then msl2009? If i paid for this out of my own money i would be pissed off. All he did on Friday was do the test which was 2 minutes maximum and then went back to his office and he discuss that my blood and urine tests and that test is pretty much normal and that next week i would do ultrasound.

That probably cost insurance companies 200 dollars or so and he basically did NOTHING.

Hey msl2009, if I was paying this out of my pocket, would he be still doing the same thing?
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They would actually do less for you if you were paying out of your own pocket. Thats the way it was with me anyways they just plain didn't want to deal with me and refered me to another doctor. You may have to do some searching and find someone out of state that is reliable with a good reputation. If this guy keeps beating around the bush then I would get a copy of all my records so when I found a new doc that way you will have proof of what test you have already done so the next guy doesn't do the same thing all over again.
 
If i was paying out of my own pocket, i would immediately complain. There is no way i would pay money for the stuff they have been doing for me. They did nothing pretty much on my 2nd visit.
 
Hey guys, i havent been on this forum in awhile...but i was very active around exactly a year ago when I got a varicocele surgery..if you looked at the old old old pages..but i figured it might be nice to check out this forum again...

but anyways to xnpu

i actually had a varicocele surgery done in hong kong and i just like to let you know in hong kong the doctors are very professional in handling it (at least from what I know, heard, and experienced). I actually went from the U.S to hong kong just to get it done because the u.s doctors were oh so horrible in handling my situation. If you are currently in pain, I'd advise to get it done soon, once that varicocele gets bigger, your testicles are not going to like it more and more, which in turn, only creates a dragging ache feeling down the road. just my 2 cents.
 
westell1 said:
Okay this is so upsetting. I went to the urologist thinking i was going to have an injection into my penis as one of the test. Instead all he did today was a specialized test on sensation of the penis. It was like he put a thing on my finger and got some 5.5 as sensation. Then he used the same thing and touched my penis with it and I would tell him if my penis felt any sensation. He did this 4 times and each time the numbers were something like 5.0, 5.0, 6.0 and 6.5. He told me the sensation in my penis was normal according to this test.

He scheduled an appointment to see him next week for the ultrasound. At first he called it a something test. It starts with a P and its a long word and i asked him this is the ultrasound and he said yes. He said this is for the blood flow which i ask him is this the most important test and he said yes. He also said after this next test, my next appointment might be the injection into penis to get into an erection.

I am very upset at these urologists. Why can't they do all these tests in 1 day. The test that was done to me was done in less than 2 minutes! Urologists these days only care about money and its frustrating.
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i completely agree. Urologists in U.S from my experience are a straight pain in the ass. You will have to wait months just to get something simple done. (like an ultrasound). I had a long argument with some other nurses on this forum before. They say they do it because they wanna help people. I understand that, but really now? so ALL those doctors out there really wanna help? give me a f**kin break. sad how it works though.
 
westell1 said:
stuartgould, would you say embolisation is the best method ?
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I would not recommoned embolisation. From what Ive learned in the past andfrom what i heard, the coils in the blood vessels meant to stop the bloodflow can have the possibility of travelling elsewhere in the body and end up in the heart. I know people have said that there is a very little chance of that happening, but if youve read the old posts, some people have experienced putting over 30 coils in their veins, and the varicocele problem still came back.

The surgery that was performed on me was a varicocelectomy microsurgery where the doctor uses a microscope to ligate the veins. They cut and enter near the lower abdomen about an inch wide. If you google this method, it actually has one of the less reoccurence rates compared to embolisation. After the surgery, my doctor actually took out the defected veins and put them in a jar and asked me if i wanted to keep them! No thanks!!! Afterwards I went through 2 weeks of edema and it eventually healed after a month (depends on the person). Hopefully this info will be useful to some.

Don't be scared of surgery if some of you guys are. I was so freaked out...but they put me on an anesthetic and put me to sleep right before surgery so i didnt feel a thing...It can be a lil rough afterwards when the anesthetic wears out...but itll only be for a week or two...long term solution is much more worth it.
 
how much did the surgery cost? You went to hong kong JUST for that uptempo? I live in New York City by the way. Urologists even in this city piss me off.
 
Yeah my dads older brother had two varicoceles and he lives in hong kong so he knew all the right connections. I was in really bad pain in the U.S in California for around a month and a half and i just couldnt take it anymroe. The surgery cost around 1900-2000 dollars. I had seen 5 different doctors in the u.s before going..The doctors were really crappy maybe because they were doctors for low income patients.
 
Do you have insurance in the u.s.? Can you tell me the name of the doctor? What grade varicocele you have? I have the worst one grade 3. Would i be able to get in touch with that doctor?
 
i had a grade 3 it was basically stickin out...everything got worse when i went canopying (ziplining) and the cables basically got so tight it ruined my balls from then on. I used University of California college insurance and it sucked. The dr in Hong Kong is called [email protected]. His name is Peter Kwong.
 
do you know how u got this varicocele and do you recall how long you had it for before you had the surgery? Did your testicles shrunk? Did you do tests to confirm it? Thanks.
 
i always had a grade 1 supposedly...but i went canopying ziplining and the cables that were really tight on my crotch basically intensified it and then from then on...a draggin achy feeling got worse over time then it became to the point where veins were sticking out wrapping around my left testicle...the pain started to radiate towards the right side because of insufficient blood flow...and it got to the point where there was a constant pulling aching feeling. The left testicle was a tad smaller than the right but still within average range supposedly. I did an ultrasound again 3 months after surgery to check for reoccurence and that was when they measured the testicle sizes.
 
Are you fine now? Do you know if your left testicle will grow back? Do you have any erection problems by any chance? Did you feel much pain from your varicocele? I have grade 3 by the thing is i dont feel much pain. However, i feel a heavy dragging sensation that is very annoying and unsightfu.
 
i am fine now..but if i wank it too much itll start hurting ..my balls that is...like if i wank it everyday...but yeah my erection actually feels better and last longer ..i suggest you do somehting about grade 3...that aching will not go away from my experience...i usually wear boxers...but briefs didnt help...it got to the point where i needed jock strap before surgery.
 
Hey! Westell, could you get your lab results (Blood Work) from your doc on your next vist and post the values and their reference ranges? You may be in range but less than optimal range. Its possible that the varicocele threw everything off. You may not need Levitra once this is all taken care of.
 
I will see the urologist in 11 days. What do you mean i wont need levitra once this is all taken care of? How do you want me to ask him? Say can i have a copy of the blood work results?
 
I just found on the net the Gat-Goren method in Israel cost 9.000 usd- it is embolization of varicoceles apparently with great succes.- but why is so much expensive ? my insurance dont want to hear about it !
 
westell1 said:
I will see the urologist in 11 days. What do you mean i wont need levitra once this is all taken care of? How do you want me to ask him? Say can i have a copy of the blood work results?
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Okay, if the varicocele is a major contributer to your ED then your hormones are definately not at optimum levels. If you have low testosterone you most likely will have higher prolactin and E2 levels as well. You have the right to your own test results by law they cannot deny you of this. Many men get tested and their doctors tell them they are within range this maybe true according to medical standards. Total Testosterone levels alone will not cut it you have to have Mid to High end of the upper range of Free and Bioavailable Testosterone to get good strong erections. This is why you need to get a copy of your lab results once the numbers are treated and everything is balanced you may not need Levitra since the dopplar ultrasound confirmed that you didn't have any problems with blood flow.
 
Just a quick update, I was told today what my testosterone levels were when tested a few months back, at the time I was told they were raised but forgot to ask for the details.

The consultant I saw said that in the UK they measure a normal range between 8-30 nmol/L mine was 48.
That works out if divided by 0.0347 as 1383 ng/dL so I don't think I've got any problems there....unless this is causing me issues in some way?

dj
 
djawol said:
Just a quick update, I was told today what my testosterone levels were when tested a few months back, at the time I was told they were raised but forgot to ask for the details.

The consultant I saw said that in the UK they measure a normal range between 8-30 nmol/L mine was 48.
That works out if divided by 0.0347 as 1383 ng/dL so I don't think I've got any problems there....unless this is causing me issues in some way?

dj
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If your testosterone levels are really that high you should be strong enough to lift a school bus straight up off the ground.......and are nothing to be concerned about unless your e2 levels are too low.
 
If you want quick erection support without pumps or pills here is the solution, have you guys heard of the erector? Goto the website erector for life and get one of these fitted and have sex anytime you want. I don't have enough posts here to submit a link but you guys can figure it out.
 
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