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VARICOCELE...can it effect testosterone?

Hey everyone, I am new to this thread here. Just wondering whether anyone else has problems with a low hanging scrotum? I have had a varicocele since I was about 14-15 and mine often hang very low, often significantly lower than my penis (especially the left one)and I find it very unattractive. Anyone else experienced anything like this? Do you think surgery would help?

And do you know if working out can make them hang even lower? I am worried that my scrotum will be hanging down to my knees when I am thirty. Do you think I have a reason to worry? My varicoceles do not become significantly more dilated during working out though, even though the ultrasound I did detected a small difference.
 
Yes, mine was exactly the same. I believe the theory is the varicocele is creating heat and therefore your body does what it should do to reduce the heat by moving your testes away from the body....only it's pretty much permanantly like it.

Mine isn't like this since the surgery.

dj.
 
Ok, glad to hear that surgery improved this for you. I have heard people mention the extra heat theory before, but when I asked the urologist about that on my last visit she just laughed at the idea and said that this was not the case. But on the other hand, my experience with doctors is that they often pretend to know more than they actually do. Anyway, did you have varicoceles on both sides? Large ones? And are they now completely gone or can you still feel them there sometimes?

And how long did you walk around with them before you had the surgery?

Thanks for your answer, by the way.
 
Erran said:
Anyway, did you have varicoceles on both sides? Large ones? And are they now completely gone or can you still feel them there sometimes?
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I only had a category 3 on the left side. I'm still aware of the vein there but it is hard and not swollen and noticeable like before. It's shrinking and definitely getting smaller.

And how long did you walk around with them before you had the surgery?
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Probably about 18 months or so.

Thanks for your answer, by the way.
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No worries, I've had lots of people help me in this thread so hopefully I can give something back.

dj
 
Ok I see. I hope you don't mind if I ask you just a couple more questions. There are a few questions and I realize it might steal a bit of your time. Please do not feel pressured to answer if you feel you do not have the time.

How big would a grade 3 be? I'm Swedish and I have never heard the doctors use that kind of terminology here. When mine is at its biggest it forms a bag of worms which is about the size of my testicle (my testicles I would guess are a bit smaller than average). Do you think this one is smaller or bigger than yours was?

And do you feel that both you testicles are hanging less low now than before, the right one also? (even though you only had varicocele on one side).

And what procedure did you have? If you had the ligation, did it leave a scar and how significant do think it is?

I think that is all I had. Sorry about all the questions but it is not often you run into people who have experienced similiar problems.
 
Sorry if this is the wrong section but i thought my questions would be answered best here. I recently requested a blood test from my urologist to check my testosterone levels because I have had a varicocele for about 6 years. Never knew it could possibly cause low test until I starting training. So my test was 291 on a scale of 241-827 and of course the urologist thinks i have nothing to worry about cause im "in range" but im 21 and not happy with this number at all. Heres the thing though, I was dumb and went to go get my blood taken during a period when I was having really bad sleep habits. I would go to sleep at like 7 am and wake up during the middle of the day. I also had insomnia a few nights during the week before I got my blood taken. 2 nights before i went to the lab I didnt sleep for 24 hours in order to "reset" my sleep cycle so i could go get my blood taken in the morning. So i got my blood taken at 7 am in the morning. The time i was pretty much going to sleep for the past few months. Would you guys think this is the main reason my test was so low? I dont have any of the horrible symptoms of low test besides some mild depression which i dont think is related. If i went and get it tested again do you think it would be higher since i have normal sleep habits now? I plan on getting surgery for my varicocele in the coming months whether or not its related to my low end t because it has been causing me pain and im sick of looking at it. Thanks for all responses.
 
Danson909 said:
Sorry if this is the wrong section but i thought my questions would be answered best here. I recently requested a blood test from my urologist to check my testosterone levels because I have had a varicocele for about 6 years. Never knew it could possibly cause low test until I starting training. So my test was 291 on a scale of 241-827 and of course the urologist thinks i have nothing to worry about cause im "in range" but im 21 and not happy with this number at all. Heres the thing though, I was dumb and went to go get my blood taken during a period when I was having really bad sleep habits. I would go to sleep at like 7 am and wake up during the middle of the day. I also had insomnia a few nights during the week before I got my blood taken. 2 nights before i went to the lab I didnt sleep for 24 hours in order to "reset" my sleep cycle so i could go get my blood taken in the morning. So i got my blood taken at 7 am in the morning. The time i was pretty much going to sleep for the past few months. Would you guys think this is the main reason my test was so low? I dont have any of the horrible symptoms of low test besides some mild depression which i dont think is related. If i went and get it tested again do you think it would be higher since i have normal sleep habits now? I plan on getting surgery for my varicocele in the coming months whether or not its related to my low end t because it has been causing me pain and im sick of looking at it. Thanks for all responses.
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Having a Testosterone level of 291 at 21 years of age is definately not good at all. Poor sleeping habits will pummel your testosterone levels for sure cause I went from 453ng/dL down to 330ng/dL over a 5 month period due to poor sleeping habits. I would retest when sleep is normal that means going to bed at 10:00-6:00 to get the most accurate results.
 
Hey. I just got an answer on my last ultrasound from my urologist. She told me that event though I had a clear case of varicocele on the left side of the scrotum - the veins in the abdomen were not dilated (or at least not dilated enough) and therefore to small for surgery. Does anybody else heard about this before? Do you think a second opinion would give me anything, or should I just face the fact that my all too distant dream of getting this sorted out will never happen, and move on?

Thanks for all answers.
 
Microsurgery isn't available in my area. Does anyone who's had the 'traditional' (I guess) inguinal procedure have any updates on their recovery? Successful or not...pain level...time before getting back to work...thanks!
 
Does anyone know how much it would cost to do surgery for a varicocele grade 3? I live in NYC and 2 urologists i seen they don't to do it for me. Is there any surgeon or doctor that would just do it instead of telling u NO?
 
Erran said:
Ok I see. I hope you don't mind if I ask you just a couple more questions.
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Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy and not had time to sit down and check the internet - here goes.

How big would a grade 3 be? ..... When mine is at its biggest it forms a bag of worms which is about the size of my testicle (my testicles I would guess are a bit smaller than average). Do you think this one is smaller or bigger than yours was?
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That pretty much describes what I had, it's approximately the same size from your description.

And do you feel that both you testicles are hanging less low now than before, the right one also? (even though you only had varicocele on one side).
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Mine definitely don't hang as low as they did before the operation. They were like a couple of Spaniel's ears (King Charles Spaniel, Google it. ;) ) They always used to hang really low whether I was hot/cold etc. Now they move.

And what procedure did you have? If you had the ligation, did it leave a scar and how significant do think it is?
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I first had the procedure to insert a coil into my veins using keyhole surgery which failed, I then had a ligation and yes I have a scar on the left hand side of my groin about 2.5 inches long. It's pretty unnoticable as they shave you to do it so the hair will cover it back up mostly.

I think that is all I had. Sorry about all the questions but it is not often you run into people who have experienced similiar problems.
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No worries, I think all of us know how you feel. :-)

As for not getting an operation approved, the only way I could get it done in the UK was to lie and say I was in pain. Not sure if that would work in Sweden?

Cheers
dj
 
Does anyone know if insurance would cover varicocele surgery if done in the USA and they have insurance? Also, i checked out the website of a doctor that i heard was very good at varicocele surgery named Dr. Nagler of Beth Israel Hospital in New York. I could not call them because its the weekend.

Does anyone know what the highest cost it would be to do the surgery? My endocrinologst told me i must do it even though the other 2 urologist i see tells me DONT WORRY ABOUT IT .... which pisses me off.
 
Does anyone know if insurance would cover varicocele surgery if done in the USA and they have insurance? Also, i checked out the website of a doctor that i heard was very good at varicocele surgery named Dr. Nagler of Beth Israel Hospital in New York. I could not call them because its the weekend.

Does anyone know what the highest cost it would be to do the surgery? My endocrinologst told me i must do it even though the other 2 urologist i see tells me DONT WORRY ABOUT IT .... which pisses me off.
 
Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy and not had time to sit down and check the internet
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Man, no need to apologise. That you even bother to help out a poor sucker like myself is miracolous enough. I have posted on threads similiar to this one before and its not often you get an answer from somebody. Thank God there some people like you out there, you have really helped me out and I feel a lot better now. First of all because there now seems to be a possibilty of improving this, and second because it seems clear that my hanging testicles are a symptom of the varicocele (which makes it a bit easier to accept). Strange that urologists seem so reluctant to say anything about this.

Below, there will be a couple of more questions, unfortunately. The thing is, there is absolutely no rush with an answer. I will not be able to anything about this in quite some time anyway. And I have no expectations of an answer, you have helped me enough already.

Actually, I too had the embolization procedure done (which I guess is the coil procedure you described) when I was about 16. Did not notice any difference though; the varicocele was still very palpable when standing and the testicles were obviously still hanging. And I was too young, ashamed and inarticulate to complain about it I guess. Perhaps it is just a coincidence, but judging from our shared experience it seems to me that the embolization approach is not the best alternative available (could perhaps work as a warning for you others out there).

So you didn't have any pains either?What symptoms did you have? Did you do it because of discomfort or simply for they way it looked?

I might have asked you this before, but I just want to clarify something. Do you notice any difference between lying down and standing after surgery? Can you still feel the veins fill up a bit or is it no difference whatsoever?

As for not getting an operation approved, the only way I could get it done in the UK was to lie and say I was in pain. Not sure if that would work in Sweden?
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Haha yeah I think that is a common approach here too. I think I might go for that strategy for my next visit. I am gonna have to let it go for now though, since I am going to China to work for some time. And the doctor seemed quite categorical about it when she said that the veins in the abdomen were not dilated enough, and that waiting was the only alternative. When I get back I am going to give it another shot. Until then: what can't be cured, must be endured.

Thanks again for your help.
 
Okay went to urologist today and he tells me varicocele has absolutely no effect on testerone at all according to him. I do however will be able to have surgery done for it about 5 weeks from now. He did keep saying 25 percent of the time it would not got better and the other 75 percent it would
 
Erran said:
Actually, I too had the embolization procedure done (which I guess is the coil procedure you described) when I was about 16. Did not notice any difference though..... Perhaps it is just a coincidence, but judging from our shared experience it seems to me that the embolization approach is not the best alternative available (could perhaps work as a warning for you others out there).
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Obviously it's only us two but yep, that's a 100% failure rate. ;-)

So you didn't have any pains either?What symptoms did you have? Did you do it because of discomfort or simply for they way it looked?
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I know that this thread is getting a little bit long now but if you scan back through there's a full explanation. Basically - I started getting the tiredness, lack of stamina, ED, no libido and depression among other symptoms at the time I noticed the varicocele so assumed it was related.

Had the operation to try and solve the above as I went to the doctors who tried telling me there was nothing wrong apart from depression. After the operation there was no improvement.

So went to great lengths to prove I wasn't depressed to finally got blood tests, testosterone came back very high (above normal by quite a way) which can't be right but I was told nothing to worry about. Thyroid test came back normal.
At the time I noticed the varicocele and the symptoms starting I was also training hard to run a marathon and somebody recently suggested it could have caused adrenal fatigue which coincidentally has similar symptoms so looking down that route at the moment. (Got more blood tests etc tomorrow)

I might have asked you this before, but I just want to clarify something. Do
you notice any difference between lying down and standing after surgery? Can you still feel the veins fill up a bit or is it no difference whatsoever?
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After surgery no, I don't think it makes any difference at all now. When lying down before surgery it made everything seem normal down there.

And the doctor seemed quite categorical about it when she said that the veins in the abdomen were not dilated enough, and that waiting was the only alternative. When I get back I am going to give it another shot. Until then: what can't be cured, must be endured.
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I'm sure there are good doctors out there, in my experience though the general practictioners don't know the right person to refer you to so you end up getting bounced around until finally you find someone of use....

Have fun in China and good luck with getting this resolved.

dj
 
I just got surgery this past week and so far the pain is tolerable and the bag of worms feeling is gone. I had a grade III and you can no longer see the veins and when you feel for them you only feel deflated veins.
 
I think it was just an inguinal varicocelectomy. The incision is only about 1.5 in. So I guess you could consider it the microsurgery since its not a larger incision.
 
Did the pain hurt when you do it? Were u asleep the whole procedure? How long was the whole procedure? I have it next month called the varicocelectomy on the left side.
 
westell1 said:
Did the pain hurt when you do it? Were u asleep the whole procedure? How long was the whole procedure? I have it next month called the varicocelectomy on the left side.
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I didn't feel anything while they did it because I was under general anesthesia.

I was told the procedure took about an hour and ten minutes because they found more veins that had to be tied off.

It was worth it so far because I haven't had any pain that I had before surgery and the bag of worms is gone. That was one of my main hopes that the surgery would cure. The only pain I have now is soreness around the incision but even that isn't that bad. Just ice it and take the pain meds or tylenol.
 
westell1 said:
Does anyone know how much it would cost to do surgery for a varicocele grade 3? I live in NYC and 2 urologists i seen they don't to do it for me. Is there any surgeon or doctor that would just do it instead of telling u NO?
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the best varicocele doctor is in nyc, I think his name is Dr. goldstein, I think he was the one who created the varicolectemy surgery

I called him last year and his rates were insane though, it was like $500 for a visit and I think the receptionsit told me it cost $9,000 for 1 varicocele surgery or $12,000 for bilateral

of course this was without insurance
 
Hey guys. I've read most of this thread & been impressed with the amount of information here. I have an ultrasound next Saturday, but the preliminary diagnosis was bilateral varicocele. All the same symptoms as you guys, plus I'm pretty sure atrophy. They definitely feel smaller than they used to be. My question is- will I be able to regain size?? I'm 24.

Thanks.
 
I have a left varicocele, grade III.

My test levels are low 500's after using clomid for 10 weeks.

I'm going to assume that the varicocele is impacting my T levels considering I'm only 20.


I'm now on TRT cream.
 
What is normal testerone level? I'm 23 and my T level is only 412. What is it for someone around my age? I am having Varicocele surgery in 3 weeks.
 
westell1 said:
What is normal testerone level? I'm 23 and my T level is only 412. What is it for someone around my age? I am having Varicocele surgery in 3 weeks.
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Depends on which lab you use. Some use 240 to 880 and others use 300 to 1100. Either way you are low normal.
 
I wouldn't put money on a varicocele surgery bringing back T levels. Thats why I decided not to waste my time on surgery and just jump to TRT.

If this was the case, it seems like it would be studied alot more, there would be alot more clinical trials on the hormone results from varicocele surgery.

Its known that varicocele's cause a drop in T, but not very promised that a surgery will bring it back.


I've been on a low-dosge 50mg compound cream of T for the last 3 weeks and I feel dramatic improvements in mood, energy, and sleep...I guessing my levels haven't even raised to the top of the range yet.
 
Djawol,

Sorry about the late answer, been accomodating myself here in the Middle Kingdom and I have not had time to check this thread. Anyway, just wanted to thank you for all your help. You have given me some hope about this stuff.

I'm sure there are good doctors out there, in my experience though the general practictioners don't know the right person to refer you to so you end up getting bounced around until finally you find someone of use....
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You are probably right, I'm going to try the doctors in my hometown when I get back, the ones who did the embolization on me. Even though it was unsuccessful that time I have heard these guys are pretty good at what their doing.

Take care!
 
Hi Brockman,

I just read your posts from July regarding the differece between the Gat Goren technique and regular Embolization.

Did you ever get a response? I couldn't find one.. did you find out anything more or do the procuedure yourself?

I am considering having it done, but really can't understand if it justifies the price and trip to get it done.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks, D.
 
monsterbox said:
I wouldn't put money on a varicocele surgery bringing back T levels. Thats why I decided not to waste my time on surgery and just jump to TRT.

If this was the case, it seems like it would be studied alot more, there would be alot more clinical trials on the hormone results from varicocele surgery.

Its known that varicocele's cause a drop in T, but not very promised that a surgery will bring it back.


I've been on a low-dosge 50mg compound cream of T for the last 3 weeks and I feel dramatic improvements in mood, energy, and sleep...I guessing my levels haven't even raised to the top of the range yet.
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You make a good point. Even the people who have responded to this thread who have had the surgery have not reported significant increases in test levels.
As far as I'm concerned that equals a 100% failure rate.
 
Hey guys I'm going for ultrasound to diagnose a varicocele, my question/worry is that when the weather is cold (like it is now), the scrotum is tight and can't see the veins and when I'm at home and wearing sweatpants those veins are clearly visible, will this mess up the ultrasound results in anyway? I'm worried it might not show and decrease my chances of getting proper treatment.
 
I saw the urologist again yesterday to discuss an operation. She doesn't use an operating microscope but uses magnifiying lenses (loupe magnification?) and I would miss a week of work. I have literature from her office saying that the failure rate is about 10%. However she did say there was about a 50/50 chance that the bag of worms would not go away because some patients don't readily absorb them into the body post-surgery.

Does anyone have a similar experience with their doctor? One of mine main motivations is to get rid of the swelled veins.
 
Hey guys I'm going for ultrasound to diagnose a varicocele, my question/worry is that when the weather is cold (like it is now), the scrotum is tight and can't see the veins and when I'm at home and wearing sweatpants those veins are clearly visible, will this mess up the ultrasound results in anyway? I'm worried it might not show and decrease my chances of getting proper treatment.
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I am not an expert, but I don't think that will be a problem for you. My veins are the same, not visible when the scrotum is tight but very visible when it losens up, and I often feel that my varicocele is very visible when I am at home and relaxed but so visible at the times I see the doctor. I have done two ultrasounds and they did detect a clear case of varicocele in the scrotum both times, despite the fact that I did not feel the bag of worms that much at those particular times. I also think that the procedure wouldn't make any sense if it depended on you scrotum hanging loosely, who can control that anyway?

But if you're worried just remember to ask about it.

Hope ultrasound goes well.
 
festivus162 said:
I saw the urologist again yesterday to discuss an operation. She doesn't use an operating microscope but uses magnifiying lenses (loupe magnification?) and I would miss a week of work. I have literature from her office saying that the failure rate is about 10%. However she did say there was about a 50/50 chance that the bag of worms would not go away because some patients don't readily absorb them into the body post-surgery.

Does anyone have a similar experience with their doctor? One of mine main motivations is to get rid of the swelled veins.
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The doctor that performed my surgery used the magnifying glasses that you're talking about. I got it on a Friday and went back to school the following Tuesday. I'd say a week is a bit much depending on what you do at work. The bag of worms is pretty much gone. You can't see it anymore (I had a grade III) and when you feel for it you can feel deflated veins somewhat. They're not hard or anything anymore. It's only been 3 weeks since I had surgery so I'm still healing and hopefully they'll continue to shrink.
 
I've had a vericocele as long as I can remember. I recall getting a physical for Pop Warner football and them talking about it. Never bothered me, but now wondering if it contributed to my inability to ever put on weight(until I hit about 38, then it was too easy!).
 
Guys- I'm going for the surgery next Thursday. Just wondering if I'll be able to regain size in the testicles???? I'm 24, if that makes any difference.
 
I've read many things online that say there will be catch up growth if you're still in the puberty age. There's still a chance you might.
 
Guys i am scheduled to have surgery on Tuesday morning which is in about 1 day. Does the surgery hurt? How long does it take the surgery? Will i have to stay home for a certain amount of time? It shows on my paper it is called a Varicocelectomy.
 
westell1 said:
Guys i am scheduled to have surgery on Tuesday morning which is in about 1 day. Does the surgery hurt? How long does it take the surgery? Will i have to stay home for a certain amount of time? It shows on my paper it is called a Varicocelectomy.
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Do you know which procedure it is? I had bilateral "subinguinal varicocelectomy" this past Thursday.

The surgery took about an hour & I was able to hobble out. They put me on an antibiotic & percocet (this can cause constipation- so drink a ton of fluids) & I slept the rest of the day.

The worst of it was maybe 48 hours later. My balls swelled up a lot & I needed to ice them every hour or so.

4 days after surgery, the swelling has reduced quite a bit, the incision(s) don't hurt much anymore & I'm getting around easier.

You will definitely need to stay home for at least a week.

I have a follow-up appt. with my doctor on the 25th, so we'll see what he says then. He mentioned that the swelling should initially subside, and then recur 7-10 days after the surgery because blood is coagulating, or some crap.

Hope this helped.
 
i do not know the method. How many different types are there? I think he is going with the usual method. Do you know what that method is called? I just saw on the paper varicocelectomy. Bateman, do you have any ED problems by any chance?
 
westell1 said:
i do not know the method. How many different types are there? I think he is going with the usual method. Do you know what that method is called?
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"Varicocelectomy, the surgical correction of a varicocele, is performed on an outpatient basis.[9] The three most common approaches are inguinal (groin), retroperitoneal (abdominal), and infrainguinal/subinguinal (above or below the groin).

An alternative to surgery is embolization,[10] a minimally invasive treatment for varicocele that is performed by an interventional radiologist."

westell1 said:
Bateman, do you have any ED problems by any chance?
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Yup. Started around a year & a half ago, but I chalked it up to my irregular sleep schedule. It might be too early to judge, but I feel like it's already improved after the surgery.
 
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