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USA Today getting ready to run an article on AMP Citrate

I've been using AMP for quite some time now.

First experience was with Evol. I'd imported it and dropped 1.5 scoops on my first night with it. I swear the energy and focus was out of this world. I pm'd my friend 'omg this is better than craze'. After that it was never quite as good, I put it down to tolerance. I'm now putting it down to placebo lol - energy and focus were hype and the 'tolerance' was the fact that, as mentioned, it basically contained no AC. LOL at me. Placevol.

I then stocked up on ampitropin. I used one or 2 caps daily. Nice energy, felt good for daily use. Then bought Optiburn Amped (thermo from Platinum Labs) which felt to me like the first real detonate replacement (great mood, energy, appetite supression) Dunno how much AC was in this but was listed last on their prop blend.

I was pretty much abusing this at 2 scoops a day plus a pre workout later. I dunno if it was high caffeine intake or the AC but I started to loose focus and motivation during the day, and I felt like my short term memory was being affected. Started doing really dumb **** like leaving a tap running after using a sink - this happened a couple of times.

Honestly I use so much different supplementation it could be anything but I made a conscious effort to at least limit my amp citrate intake to 1 serve every other day and have felt a lot better for it. Again, could be the caff, could be something else in the thermo, could be all in my head, but just putting it out there.
 
Admin said:
"New Delhi, 18 September 2014 – Yet another incident was reported where the police caught a racket of fake supplement red- handed in the city. In the process of making quick money fake supplement manufacturers are ready to get to any extent even if that includes life threatening consequences to the users. The special task force- Uttar Pradesh police along with the food and drugs department raided different supplement companies in the city and seized 36 tonnes of fake supplements.

These fake supplements are distributed to the retailers and shopkeepers in Chandni Chowk, Delhi. The duplicate supplements were marketed under the labels of a few of the well- known brands such as Optimum Nutrition, MuscleTech, Universal Nutrition and Muscle Blaze.

The mastermind behind the huge fake racket was Sandeep Malik. The goods seized from his factory was sent to laboratory at Lucknow for detailed report on the adulterated contents used in them. “The goods manufactured by the accused is against the regulations of FSSAI and are feared to contain steroids and harmful chemicals which could cause long term illnesses and impairment in humans.” Said Vinit Kumar, an officer of Food and Drugs department."


Avoid Ebay and Amazon.
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Why are we avoiding amazon if buying it through prime and it says "shipped from amazon?"

I've gone to Amazon plenty of times because some online retailers (not naming names) were just too expensive...
 
nattydisaster said:
It is a major problem. I witnessed with my own eyes fake bottles of OEP and one of the popular H-Drol products last year. The sellers were selling them as fake, the buyers were buying them knowing they were fake, and the end users had no idea. It is a very real problem...it's not just designer handbags

That's why I still believe if there was ever an issue with OEP in Hawaii, my personal opinion is that it was counterfeit bottles. It wasnt guys making 12 bottles in their kitchen...but mass producing multiple fake supplements.

Stay away from Amazon and eBay indeed.
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I'd never buy from a place like that lol
 
The Engineer said:
Why are we avoiding amazon if buying it through prime and it says "shipped from amazon?"

I've gone to Amazon plenty of times because some online retailers (not naming names) were just too expensive...
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Shipped from Amazon is different from sold by Amazon.

Retailers can basically use Amazon as a makeshift warehouse, this would qualify the products to be listed as being shipped from Amazon. It doesn't not insure legit products though (retailers literally just ship the products to Amazon, Amazon inventories and holds it at their own warehouses and provides the shipping).
 
kissdadookie said:
Shipped from Amazon is different from sold by Amazon.

Retailers can basically use Amazon as a makeshift warehouse, this would qualify the products to be listed as being shipped from Amazon. It doesn't not insure legit products though (retailers literally just ship the products to Amazon, Amazon inventories and holds it at their own warehouses and provides the shipping).
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Correct. There are some stores on there that I can verify as well. You should always contact the supplement brand and ask if said retailer is authorized to resell your products
 
The Engineer said:
I love OL and am by no means throwing them under the bus, but doesn't conqu3r have AMP citrate?
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It did... in light of the new negative publicity we are removing it from the formula. Unfortunately, it's just a response that we view as a necessary one.
 
More great press for our industry :/
 
So much to say about this. Not like it wasn't obviously coming. It is pretty much a DMAA clone, and DMAA had bad press so it was just doing the same routine all over again. We all had to know it was just a matter of time.

And, along the lines of "this is why we can't have nice things..." I find it incredibly ironic that none of this would even be an issue if they didn't ban ephedrine. Maybe I'm wrong about this because the pre-workout market has taken a huge jump in the past 5-10 years and such stimulants may have had a place, but ephedrine was safe and effective, and people were happy leaving well enough alone, until it got banned. Then the search for all sorts of newer stimulants was on. In an effort to "help" the consumer, they have actually created a market for less well researched products. And then when DMAA came out, they did it again and then AMP citrate comes along...what will be next?
 
"Marc Ullman, an attorney for Driven Sports, said Oct. 8 that like previous research conducted on Craze by the same scientists, the most recent review in Drug Testing and Analysis is simply a report and not a study subject to peer review.

The article, according to Ullman, makes several false claims — like noting that no evidence on human safety is needed to market dietary supplements in the United States — that should “call for serious skepticism of the rest of” the researchers’ work.

“[Driven Sports] takes great exception to the authors’ efforts to falsely imply that this product is available for sale to U.S. consumers. It is not. … Driven Sports determined not to offer Frenzy for sale in the U.S. because it contained a bioidentical synthetic version of a botanical ingredient,” which U.S. law does not allow, Ullman said.

Ullman added that the company has sent a libel letter to the researchers urging them to retract any statements about Frenzy in the report or face legal ramifications."


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OutOfStep said:
Yes, I do know what I'm getting with fast food...****. It's **** food. Nobody buys cigarettes and Big Macs and thinks they are doing their health any favors. By the way, whatever became of that whole ordeal where a bunch of folks got hepatitis after taking your fat burner supplement?
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I don't even think the company itself knows, but it does sound good to pass the blame on a counterfeit.
 
So based on the lab analysis that was conducted and reported on in the article, hardly any of the PWO's that claim to contain AMP citrate really contain much of the ingredient at all (Iron Forged's Contraband and VPX's Redline White Heat and MD2 Meltdown are all exceptions, but yohimbine has never really agreed with me, so I'll have to pass on the latter two). Contraband seems like a decent choice, but do you guys have any suggestions for any other PWO's that contain AMP citrate?

Thanks in advance...
 
SpicedCider said:
So based on the lab analysis that was conducted and reported on in the article, hardly any of the PWO's that claim to contain AMP citrate really contain much of the ingredient at all (Iron Forged's Contraband and VPX's Redline White Heat and MD2 Meltdown are all exceptions, but yohimbine has never really agreed with me, so I'll have to pass on the latter two). Contraband seems like a decent choice, but do you guys have any suggestions for any other PWO's that contain AMP citrate? Thanks in advance...
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Im confused. So your saying that most supplements that claim to contain amp, do not? I've read others claim this too, I'd like more clarification.
 
Bryancap77 said:
Im confused. So your saying that most supplements that claim to contain amp, do not? I've read others claim this too, I'd like more clarification.
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Click the link to the study below, then scroll down to "Table 1":

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You'll see that several products whose ingredients lists claim AMP Citrate as an included ingredient, such as Hybrid's Preamp and Genomyx's Evol (as well as their "pure" AMP citrate product), actually contain either no or very little AMP at all.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
If you had a product with substantial evidence showing compliance would you even bother trying to submit an NDI? I don't think I would. It almost seems as if you are better off saving your resources for the backend fight if needed. I say this because the FDA can decline your NDI then leave you Fawked while competitors profit from your idea.
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NDI is a totally subjective process. Iron clad the process with steps and rules and watch companies follow.
 
The NDI process is very favorable and abundantly fair. Companies are just dumb for not utilizing and supporting the wonder law that we have.
 
SpicedCider said:
Click the link to the study below, then scroll down to "Table 1":

Invalid Link Removed

You'll see that several products whose ingredients lists claim AMP Citrate as an included ingredient, such as Hybrid's Preamp and Genomyx's Evol (as well as their "pure" AMP citrate product), actually contain either no or very little AMP at all.
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Are you serious!? I have both..and I just recently bought The Evol.
I want my money back
 
Mrbolt84 said:
Are you serious!? I have both..and I just recently bought The Evol.
I want my money back
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That's why I had ever only bought one tub of Evol and eventually tossed it because it just wasn't very effective. LoL. AMPitropin, that chit is legit. I like it.
 
For the people complaining about their products not containing AMP, what's all the hubbub? (besides wasting your money)

DMAA can still be found in bulk powders/tinctures and from reputable sources to boot. It's 2014, people. Learn to make your own pre :)
 
The Engineer said:
For the people complaining about their products not containing AMP, what's all the hubbub? (besides wasting your money)

DMAA can still be found in bulk powders/tinctures and from reputable sources to boot. It's 2014, people. Learn to make your own pre :)
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You don't see the problem with the contents of a container being different than what's on the label of the container?
 
De__eB said:
You don't see the problem with the contents of a container being different than what's on the label of the container?
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That's not the point I was referring to.

Yes, the products in question are a terrible example of the "wild wild west" mentality of the supplement industry. I am no opposing that. What I am opposing is the unwillingness of people to mix their own pre-workouts. Granted it's not as convenient, and it's always nice receiving a shiny bottle in the mail or getting it from a store, but if we're all adults who have some knowledge on these ingredients (because we follow AM), shouldn't most of us have the presence of mind to say **** it, and make their own?

Now, some ingredients are hard to source from bulk suppliers. But basics like agmatine, beta alanine, caffiene, tyrosine, tmg etc, are a major component of most pre workouts. Hell, as an SNS rep you should be encouraging this :) And don't take this as a knock to SNS. I have tubs of BA and a few bottles of caffeine from you guys.
 
The Engineer said:
That's not the point I was referring to.

Yes, the products in question are a terrible example of the "wild wild west" mentality of the supplement industry. I am no opposing that. What I am opposing is the unwillingness of people to mix their own pre-workouts. Granted it's not as convenient, and it's always nice receiving a shiny bottle in the mail or getting it from a store, but if we're all adults who have some knowledge on these ingredients (because we follow AM), shouldn't most of us have the presence of mind to say **** it, and make their own?

Now, some ingredients are hard to source from bulk suppliers. But basics like agmatine, beta alanine, caffiene, tyrosine, tmg etc, are a major component of most pre workouts. Hell, as an SNS rep you should be encouraging this :) And don't take this as a knock to SNS. I have tubs of BA and a few bottles of caffeine from you guys.
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Yes please everyone buy and support SNS ;)
 
Yeah SNS pretty much has everything you need for a pre-workout...except I'm not sure what to do about flavoring.
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
but it's a pretty big point, no?
if you stretch the premise out to bulk product, and the bulk product does not contain what is listed, then where are you now with all the neat "construct your own" theology?
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You make a valid point, to which I say, "we're screwed." Because yeah, even the bulk suppliers like NOW or Nutrabio -those that "guarantee" us that their products are made in a GMP facility -could be screwing us on bulk materials.

Take it even further, and the shmo that wants to bypass the middle man and go straight to alibaba might get himself into worse trouble than if he just went with lecheek or hybrid nutrition.

So there's no real way of knowing, shy of doing a chemical analysis ourselves on each and every product that comes out henceforth.

Relevant:

[video=youtube;mEB7WbTTlu4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEB7WbTTlu4[/video]
 
The Engineer said:
You make a valid point, to which I say, "we're screwed." Because yeah, even the bulk suppliers like NOW or Nutrabio -those that "guarantee" us that their products are made in a GMP facility -could be screwing us on bulk materials.

Take it even further, and the shmo that wants to bypass the middle man and go straight to alibaba might get himself into worse trouble than if he just went with lecheek or hybrid nutrition.

So there's no real way of knowing, shy of doing a chemical analysis ourselves on each and every product that comes out henceforth.

Relevant:

[video=youtube;mEB7WbTTlu4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEB7WbTTlu4[/video]
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When you buy a product from a USA brand you should have faith that this product was manufactured under US standards. If they did not follow the law (cGMPs) and did not do their diligence on the raw material testing and ensure the product is made to the highest quality standards. But if bet if you went to Hybrid or Genomyx and asked for any testing data you would just hear crickets chirping. At the end of the day, these guys didn't do their job and sold us a subpar quality product.
 
The Engineer said:
That's not the point I was referring to.

Yes, the products in question are a terrible example of the "wild wild west" mentality of the supplement industry. I am no opposing that. What I am opposing is the unwillingness of people to mix their own pre-workouts. Granted it's not as convenient, and it's always nice receiving a shiny bottle in the mail or getting it from a store, but if we're all adults who have some knowledge on these ingredients (because we follow AM), shouldn't most of us have the presence of mind to say **** it, and make their own?

Now, some ingredients are hard to source from bulk suppliers. But basics like agmatine, beta alanine, caffiene, tyrosine, tmg etc, are a major component of most pre workouts. Hell, as an SNS rep you should be encouraging this :) And don't take this as a knock to SNS. I have tubs of BA and a few bottles of caffeine from you guys.
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I don't think anyone in this thread has expressed an unwillingness to mix their own pre-workout? I know a lot of members buy our single ingredient products to do either just that, or to add ingredients they want that aren't in their favorite preworkout.

I stand behind the quality of our products, but, keep in mind, one of the products shown to be bunk in this study was a single ingredient product, do you trust the rest of the Genomyx Basyx line now?

I wouldn't think QA issues are any less likely to apply to single ingredient products than they are to multi-ingredient preworkouts :/
 
The Engineer said:
You make a valid point, to which I say, "we're screwed." Because yeah, even the bulk suppliers like NOW or Nutrabio -those that "guarantee" us that their products are made in a GMP facility -could be screwing us on bulk materials.

Take it even further, and the shmo that wants to bypass the middle man and go straight to alibaba might get himself into worse trouble than if he just went with lecheek or hybrid nutrition.

So there's no real way of knowing, shy of doing a chemical analysis ourselves on each and every product that comes out henceforth.

Relevant:

[video=youtube;mEB7WbTTlu4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEB7WbTTlu4[/video]
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I can't give you any more rep points or I would just for posting that scene from Tommy Boy. So funny and so true all at once!
 
I personally buy a preworkout, and add what's missing, or what I'd like more of.

Currently taking ;
Hypermax 1.5 scoops
Hemavol 1 scoop
Ephedrine 25mg
Gms 3g
Caffeine free Focus XT 1 scoop

And..... amino IV intra.

Boom
 
I have filed I believe 15-20 NDIs in the past 4 years or so. The FDA objections are absurd. There doesn't even seem to be a provision to allow them to do that.

Once I finish law school I will most certainly file suit inquiring about the legality of their objections however that will be a few years yet.
 
LG Sciences said:
I have filed I believe 15-20 NDIs in the past 4 years or so. The FDA objections are absurd. There doesn't even seem to be a provision to allow them to do that.

Once I finish law school I will most certainly file suit inquiring about the legality of their objections however that will be a few years yet.
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I read almost every single NDI that gets published to the federal register and can't really recall seeing any by LG Sciences

That said, a lot of them don't, and to get quite a few of them I've had to go in person to their public reading room in Maryland.

Feel free to provide an example of an 'absurd' objection they've given you?

Also, they clearly have the provisions to reject any NDI that doesn't meet all of the requirements of an NDI to their satisfaction.
 
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