USA Today getting ready to run an article on AMP Citrate

I would go on a limb here and say that there are sourcing issues that Genomyx is experiencing, but in turn they are still responsible for conducting QC prior to bottling the products and moving them into the market. If you are not testing your raw materials, I would also go on a limb here and say you are not the sharpest tool in the shed! That is the only acceptable answer to how they have very little to NO Amp Citrate in either product tested. Interesting enough, Genomyx/Lecheeck has a trademark on the name "Amp Citrate," common sense tells you if you hold the trademark, you should probably hold some quality raws and bottle them as well.
 
niclas90 said:
Yep, me too. I can't ****ing believe this ****. I will never ever purchase a Genomyx product again, unless they come with a valid explanation, which is very unlikely at this point.
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And throwing the baby out with the bathwater begins again...
 
No one is going to bash me for my earlier comment?! :(
 
If you want me to...
 
TGB1987 said:
Yes we are. Until the FDA says there is an issue there is no reason to take them down.
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Interesting business plan...

Directly from the article:

We want the FDA and we want the stores to immediately remove these products from store shelves," said Pieter Cohen, an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School, and co-author of research published Wednesday in the scientific journal Drug Testing and Analysis. The researchers tested 14 products listing AMP Citrate, 4-amino-2-methylpentane citrate or some of the other chemical names used to describe the new stimulant. All of these are marketing names for 1,3-dimethylbutylamine, or DMBA, which was given to a few dogs and cats in two experiments published decades ago, Cohen said.

"They're taking something described in an obscure article in the 1940s, synthesizing it in pharmaceutical doses and selling it directly to consumers," Cohen said of the chemical. The research team shared their concerns with the FDA last week, he said.

The FDA, in a statement, said it "is aware of concerns regarding DMBA/AMP Citrate and will consider taking regulatory action, as appropriate, to protect consumers."
 
Duywayne said:
Interesting business plan...

Directly from the article:

We want the FDA and we want the stores to immediately remove these products from store shelves," said Pieter Cohen, an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School, and co-author of research published Wednesday in the scientific journal Drug Testing and Analysis. The researchers tested 14 products listing AMP Citrate, 4-amino-2-methylpentane citrate or some of the other chemical names used to describe the new stimulant. All of these are marketing names for 1,3-dimethylbutylamine, or DMBA, which was given to a few dogs and cats in two experiments published decades ago, Cohen said.

"They're taking something described in an obscure article in the 1940s, synthesizing it in pharmaceutical doses and selling it directly to consumers," Cohen said of the chemical. The research team shared their concerns with the FDA last week, he said.

The FDA, in a statement, said it "is aware of concerns regarding DMBA/AMP Citrate and will consider taking regulatory action, as appropriate, to protect consumers."
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Might want to keep reading the thread...
 
Admin said:
Might want to keep reading the thread...
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Only reason I'm following this thread is because I want to know what the heck is really in AMP Citrate (the product, not the ingredient, since we know that product doesn't contain the ingredient it's named after :P ).

Placebo? Extra caffeine? DMAA? Something that might be found in bath salts?
 
kissdadookie said:
Only reason I'm following this thread is because I want to know what the heck is really in AMP Citrate (the product, not the ingredient, since we know that product doesn't contain the ingredient it's named after :P ).

Placebo? Extra caffeine? DMAA? Something that might be found in bath salts?
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The Harvard study doesn't say what it actually was. We're people reporting effects from it (I have no idea didn't follow it)?
 
I wonder what other companies that have been using DMBA have to say about this...

And has anyone else noticed Lecheek's/genomyx's absence from this thread?
 
Royd The Noyd said:
The Harvard study doesn't say what it actually was. We're people reporting effects from it (I have no idea didn't follow it)?
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Didn't follow up on the AMP Citrate product feedback, but it appeared as if it was selling ok? Not sure :P

The AMPitropin certainly does work well, and the Harvard study confirms why.
 
De__eB said:
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Kudos to you sir, much respect :)
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Very cool. No company should be supported who does this and much respect to TGB for removing it.
 
The Engineer said:
I wonder what other companies that have been using DMBA have to say about this...

And has anyone else noticed Lecheek's/genomyx's absence from this thread?
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Yeah, its not like their lawyers are telling them anything.
 
kissdadookie said:
Only reason I'm following this thread is because I want to know what the heck is really in AMP Citrate (the product, not the ingredient, since we know that product doesn't contain the ingredient it's named after :P ).

Placebo? Extra caffeine? DMAA? Something that might be found in bath salts?
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Don't worry, in time, it will all be in there the way this thing works. You see, its worse case scenario first, truth much later....
 
Jiigzz said:
Hey now. If I pay for a product claiming XYZ ingredient, should I not receive it?
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Sure...but I don't blame the retailer. And I also am hesitant to believe such articles 100%....as they have been incorrect many times. But if we are taking USA today as scientific fact now...boy, we're in trouble.

I also know for a fact that the company itself changed hands several times and do not know if the product was already in circulation, formulated, whatever...before or after that took place...so I reserve my judgement of how evil they are for a later date....because as you know, its the big bad supplement company owner trying to screw you over.
 
De__eB said:
Yeah...I can't fathom how companies could screw this one up unless their QC is just completely non-existent.
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It would probably blow your mind...or maybe it wouldn't since you seem well versed...how many companies think that because their manufacture told them they are a GMP compliant manufacture that the line ends there. Every supplement company is responsible for the product they put into the market place, and is required to be GMP compliant as well for whatever their operation holds.

I always laugh when I see companies advertise "made in a GMP compliant facility!". Is the manufacture actually GMP compliant? Did you have an expert or a third party audit them? If they truly are, that's great...but what about everything else? Did the supplement company do everything on their end to ensure the quality of their products? How many employees does the supplement company have on their own QA/QC team? In most cases, none, because they think it's not required if their manufacture is GMP compliant.

I can tell you from our business that the cost of good QA/QC staffing, as well as the operations in having proper QA/QC is extremely expensive, to the point that it is impossible for a lot of companies to truly have it in place.

Not saying any company in this thread lacks quality, just speaking about the topic in general. It's not just an issue in sports supplements either. In some cases it's even worse in the health/vitamin market
 
Admin said:
Sure...but I don't blame the retailer. And I also am hesitant to believe such articles 100%....as they have been incorrect many times. But if we are taking USA today as scientific fact now...boy, we're in trouble.

I also know for a fact that the company itself changed hands several times and do not know if the product was already in circulation, formulated, whatever...before or after that took place...so I reserve my judgement of how evil they are for a later date....because as you know, its the big bad supplement company owner trying to screw you over.
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Oh no, neither do I. Had they not removed it, I wouldn't have minded either. They sell products on the premise that they have what they contain, pure and simple; the onus is not on them to test products they receive as that is just costly and the cost to do so would just get passed on to me. But its still good to see that TGB has removed the product once they received information that it may not contain what it has claimed. To me, that is going above and beyond what is required of them given that it is not their fault.

In every industry their is someone trying to screw people over. I have seen food items that claim "only 100 calories per serving" then on the back have, per serving on the nutritional panel, 300kcals LOL
 
The Engineer said:
I wonder what other companies that have been using DMBA have to say about this...

And has anyone else noticed Lecheek's/genomyx's absence from this thread?
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There is the Hybrid one too, i dont know if they have reps though but their product was found not to have AMP either.
 
Admin said:
Sure...but I don't blame the retailer. And I also am hesitant to believe such articles 100%....as they have been incorrect many times. But if we are taking USA today as scientific fact now...boy, we're in trouble.

I also know for a fact that the company itself changed hands several times and do not know if the product was already in circulation, formulated, whatever...before or after that took place...so I reserve my judgement of how evil they are for a later date....because as you know, its the big bad supplement company owner trying to screw you over.
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It's not an article. The data is all in this paper. Are you saying they lied about the data, then published it in a peer reviewed respected journal?

A synthetic stimulant never tested in humans, 1,3-dimethylbutylamine (DMBA), is identified in multiple dietary supplements.

Drug Test Anal. 2014 Oct 8;

Authors: Cohen PA, Travis JC, Venhuis BJ

Abstract
A synthetic stimulant never before studied in humans, 1,3-dimethylbutylamine (DMBA), was suspected of being present in dietary supplements. DMBA is an analogue of the pharmaceutical stimulant, 1,3-dimethylamylamine (DMAA), which was recently banned by the US Food and Drug Administration. We obtained all dietary supplements sold by US distributors that listed an ingredient on the label, such as AMP Citrate, that might be a marketing name for DMBA. Supplements were analyzed for the presence and quantity of DMBA. Fourteen supplements met our inclusion criteria and were analyzed by two separate laboratories using ultra high performance liquid chromatography (UHPLC) - mass spectrometry and a reference standard. The identity of DMBA was confirmed in 12 supplements in the range of 13 to 120 mg DMBA per serving. Following recommendations on the supplement label for maximum daily intake, customers would consume from 26 to 320 mg of DMBA per day. Supplements containing DMBA were marketed to improve athletic performance, increase weight loss and enhance brain function. DMBA has never before been detected in supplements. The stimulant has never been studied in humans; its efficacy and safety are entirely unknown. Regulatory agencies should act expeditiously to warn consumers and remove DMBA from all dietary supplements. Copyright 2014 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
It's not an article. The data is all in this paper. Are you saying they lied about the data, then published it in a peer reviewed respected journal?

A synthetic stimulant never tested in humans, 1,3-dimethylbutylamine (DMBA), is identified in multiple dietary supplements.

Drug Test Anal. 2014 Oct 8;

Authors: Cohen PA, Travis JC, Venhuis BJ

Abstract
A synthetic stimulant never before studied in humans, 1,3-dimethylbutylamine (DMBA), was suspected of being present in dietary supplements. DMBA is an analogue of the pharmaceutical stimulant, 1,3-dimethylamylamine (DMAA), which was recently banned by the US Food and Drug Administration. We obtained all dietary supplements sold by US distributors that listed an ingredient on the label, such as AMP Citrate, that might be a marketing name for DMBA. Supplements were analyzed for the presence and quantity of DMBA. Fourteen supplements met our inclusion criteria and were analyzed by two separate laboratories using ultra high performance liquid chromatography (UHPLC) - mass spectrometry and a reference standard. The identity of DMBA was confirmed in 12 supplements in the range of 13 to 120 mg DMBA per serving. Following recommendations on the supplement label for maximum daily intake, customers would consume from 26 to 320 mg of DMBA per day. Supplements containing DMBA were marketed to improve athletic performance, increase weight loss and enhance brain function. DMBA has never before been detected in supplements. The stimulant has never been studied in humans; its efficacy and safety are entirely unknown. Regulatory agencies should act expeditiously to warn consumers and remove DMBA from all dietary supplements. Copyright 2014 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
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That would never happen..I mean money and politics are CLEAN.

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Admin said:
That would never happen..I mean money and politics are CLEAN.

Invalid Link Removed
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I love how every article still makes DMAA out to be so super dangerous...when there is so much safety evidence on it now...including a study from the department of defense

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Had to give PA a plug there
 
nattydisaster said:
I love how every article still makes DMAA out to be so super dangerous...when there is so much safety evidence on it now...including a study from the department of defense

Invalid Link Removed
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But the studies....
 
Admin said:
No, its not rare at all. Not saying it happened here, but its not rare at all.
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I don't think it's rare.

Dr. Oz basically got thrown under a bus for a reason (man thought he was there to give his opinions on the subject but instead he got interrogated, or what? making entertaining hollistic housewives TV programming that comes with disclaimers anyway in the first place?). I can think of far more other things that causes harm than the Dr. Oz Show.
 
I do know two companies products were tested and reported and were found to be fakes...but the cat is out of the bag at that point. China --> Hawaii --> US....major counterfeit operations. Its a chitty world...:lol:
 
"New Delhi, 18 September 2014 – Yet another incident was reported where the police caught a racket of fake supplement red- handed in the city. In the process of making quick money fake supplement manufacturers are ready to get to any extent even if that includes life threatening consequences to the users. The special task force- Uttar Pradesh police along with the food and drugs department raided different supplement companies in the city and seized 36 tonnes of fake supplements.

These fake supplements are distributed to the retailers and shopkeepers in Chandni Chowk, Delhi. The duplicate supplements were marketed under the labels of a few of the well- known brands such as Optimum Nutrition, MuscleTech, Universal Nutrition and Muscle Blaze.

The mastermind behind the huge fake racket was Sandeep Malik. The goods seized from his factory was sent to laboratory at Lucknow for detailed report on the adulterated contents used in them. “The goods manufactured by the accused is against the regulations of FSSAI and are feared to contain steroids and harmful chemicals which could cause long term illnesses and impairment in humans.” Said Vinit Kumar, an officer of Food and Drugs department."


Avoid Ebay and Amazon.
 
nattydisaster said:
I love how every article still makes DMAA out to be so super dangerous...when there is so much safety evidence on it now...including a study from the department of defense

Invalid Link Removed

Had to give PA a plug there
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Indeed safe for most people at a responsible dose, just like DMBA is probably safe at the doses being used, for most people.

Admin said:
But the studies....
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Indicate that it is largely safe? :D

Admin said:
That would never happen..I mean money and politics are CLEAN.

Invalid Link Removed
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Sure, they're doing this for political points but...this is a non-compliant ingredient...the way the industry works, you can pretty much start selling whatever new non-compliant ingredient you want, and as long as you stop selling it when big brother catches wind, you're good to go.

But at the same time, companies can't break the law and then all play the victim card when the FDA shows up to enforce the law and act like big evil government is coming down hard on them.
 
kissdadookie said:
I don't think it's rare.

Dr. Oz basically got thrown under a bus for a reason (man thought he was there to give his opinions on the subject but instead he got interrogated, or what? making entertaining hollistic housewives TV programming that comes with disclaimers anyway in the first place?). I can think of far more other things that causes harm than the Dr. Oz Show.
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Wtf does Dr Oz have to do with research published in a core journal? Srsly even suggesting these are remotely the same is stupid.
 
Admin said:
"New Delhi, 18 September 2014 – Yet another incident was reported where the police caught a racket of fake supplement red- handed in the city. In the process of making quick money fake supplement manufacturers are ready to get to any extent even if that includes life threatening consequences to the users. The special task force- Uttar Pradesh police along with the food and drugs department raided different supplement companies in the city and seized 36 tonnes of fake supplements.

These fake supplements are distributed to the retailers and shopkeepers in Chandni Chowk, Delhi. The duplicate supplements were marketed under the labels of a few of the well- known brands such as Optimum Nutrition, MuscleTech, Universal Nutrition and Muscle Blaze.

The mastermind behind the huge fake racket was Sandeep Malik. The goods seized from his factory was sent to laboratory at Lucknow for detailed report on the adulterated contents used in them. “The goods manufactured by the accused is against the regulations of FSSAI and are feared to contain steroids and harmful chemicals which could cause long term illnesses and impairment in humans.” Said Vinit Kumar, an officer of Food and Drugs department."


Avoid Ebay and Amazon.
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Damn... ****s literally crazy...
 
Admin said:
"New Delhi, 18 September 2014 – Yet another incident was reported where the police caught a racket of fake supplement red- handed in the city. In the process of making quick money fake supplement manufacturers are ready to get to any extent even if that includes life threatening consequences to the users. The special task force- Uttar Pradesh police along with the food and drugs department raided different supplement companies in the city and seized 36 tonnes of fake supplements.

These fake supplements are distributed to the retailers and shopkeepers in Chandni Chowk, Delhi. The duplicate supplements were marketed under the labels of a few of the well- known brands such as Optimum Nutrition, MuscleTech, Universal Nutrition and Muscle Blaze.

The mastermind behind the huge fake racket was Sandeep Malik. The goods seized from his factory was sent to laboratory at Lucknow for detailed report on the adulterated contents used in them. “The goods manufactured by the accused is against the regulations of FSSAI and are feared to contain steroids and harmful chemicals which could cause long term illnesses and impairment in humans.” Said Vinit Kumar, an officer of Food and Drugs department."


Avoid Ebay and Amazon.
Click to expand...

Sandeep must be in deep ****.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Wtf does Dr Oz have to do with research published in a core journal? Srsly even suggesting these are remotely the same is stupid.
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I'm just suggesting that there's possibly someone (not a person, but persons, maybe an entity, etc.) pushing for these studies or interrogations to take place. I am not insinuating that the studies themselves are bogus.
 
Admin said:
"New Delhi, 18 September 2014 – Yet another incident was reported where the police caught a racket of fake supplement red- handed in the city. In the process of making quick money fake supplement manufacturers are ready to get to any extent even if that includes life threatening consequences to the users. The special task force- Uttar Pradesh police along with the food and drugs department raided different supplement companies in the city and seized 36 tonnes of fake supplements.

These fake supplements are distributed to the retailers and shopkeepers in Chandni Chowk, Delhi. The duplicate supplements were marketed under the labels of a few of the well- known brands such as Optimum Nutrition, MuscleTech, Universal Nutrition and Muscle Blaze.

The mastermind behind the huge fake racket was Sandeep Malik. The goods seized from his factory was sent to laboratory at Lucknow for detailed report on the adulterated contents used in them. “The goods manufactured by the accused is against the regulations of FSSAI and are feared to contain steroids and harmful chemicals which could cause long term illnesses and impairment in humans.” Said Vinit Kumar, an officer of Food and Drugs department."


Avoid Ebay and Amazon.
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It is a major problem. I witnessed with my own eyes fake bottles of OEP and one of the popular H-Drol products last year. The sellers were selling them as fake, the buyers were buying them knowing they were fake, and the end users had no idea. It is a very real problem...it's not just designer handbags

That's why I still believe if there was ever an issue with OEP in Hawaii, my personal opinion is that it was counterfeit bottles. It wasnt guys making 12 bottles in their kitchen...but mass producing multiple fake supplements.

Stay away from Amazon and eBay indeed.
 
De__eB said:
Indicate that it is largely safe? :D
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No..that would be incorrect according to the authorities.
Sure, they're doing this for political points but...this is a non-compliant ingredient...the way the industry works, you can pretty much start selling whatever new non-compliant ingredient you want, and as long as you stop selling it when big brother catches wind, you're good to go.
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No..the fact that they went after a product by DS...a product not sold in the US surely means their agenda is honest. :lol:

But at the same time, companies can't break the law and then all play the victim card when the FDA shows up to enforce the law and act like big evil government is coming down hard on them.
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But they didn't show up...
 
nattydisaster said:
It is a major problem. I witnessed with my own eyes fake bottles of OEP and one of the popular H-Drol products last year. The sellers were selling them as fake, the buyers were buying them knowing they were fake, and the end users had no idea. It is a very real problem...it's not just designer handbags
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And your name will get **** on because of it...
 
De__eB said:
Indeed safe for most people at a responsible dose, just like DMBA is probably safe at the doses being used, for most people.



Indicate that it is largely safe? :D



Sure, they're doing this for political points but...this is a non-compliant ingredient...the way the industry works, you can pretty much start selling whatever new non-compliant ingredient you want, and as long as you stop selling it when big brother catches wind, you're good to go.

But at the same time, companies can't break the law and then all play the victim card when the FDA shows up to enforce the law and act like big evil government is coming down hard on them.
Click to expand...

If you had a product with substantial evidence showing compliance would you even bother trying to submit an NDI? I don't think I would. It almost seems as if you are better off saving your resources for the backend fight if needed. I say this because the FDA can decline your NDI then leave you Fawked while competitors profit from your idea.
 
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