ultimate nutrition????

[wojo]

ok i was recently turned onto ultimate nutrition by another members suggestion..im just curious how many people out there have tried there stuff..they have a real cheap hmb(120 caps of 750mgs) and cla(90 caps of 1000mgs for 75-80% cla) now this is exactly what iu have been looking for both need to be taken in high dosages but im worried this is too good to be true can anyone help me out?

 

[RippedUp]

I wouldn't trust them.

 

[NPursuit]

I have always heard to stay away from them as well.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Well I've used them and they are just fine. People said this about Tri-Cuts 2 and it was fine. People said this about SAN and Syntrax for ages and both work fine.


I'd like to know where people have heard they are bad since it seems not many people are aware of them.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I wouldn't trust them.

Why?

 

[wojo]

bump on the why

 

[Scottyo]

The only thing I would make sure is the CLA is Tonalin CLA. That is the brand with a patent on the good isomers of CLA. Other than that, I don't know about HMB or any other products.

 

[RippedUp]

Here's why. (Read my post)

 

[wojo]

um ok im assuming that meant to be informative but i to do not read the language...and drake also made the point it sounds like prohormones

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I did't see anything that would say they were untrustworthy. I've used HMB in the past once cutting so I know what to expect so I know what I'm using now is HMB. In fact its better this time around. I could see if they discontinued to the licensing costs but that doesn't say anything about the actual product. From what I'm using, I know its legit.

 

[RippedUp]

Aaaaaaargh bros.. Can't you see that 3 Ult. Nut. products were contaminated with PHs/DHEA?????

No need for a PHD to read that report.

 

[dsade]

I used to buy Ultimate Nutrition Vanadyl Sulfate (yeah, I know...it was a long time ago). I also have in front of me a few Andro 1V stack "beta-cyclodextrin" tabs with a whopping 4 mg 4-AD/1mg 19-nor each. But, it does not say HPBCD, and the ratio is the above in a total size of 25mg, (4:1 BCD to hormone) rather than the 10:1 which seems to be indicated in an effective cyclodextrin complex. I have heard they are good quality, just not much of a leader in the industry.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

And if you knew how many products were contaminated out there you wouldn't purchase anything. I remember they same reports going around for a certain companies PH's we both defend on occasion but we know their products are legit.


BTW- If you download the English PDF it shows that 20% of 634 non-hormonal substances had traces, so its a lot more than you think and happens much more frequently. Its nothing new. That test was funded by the IOC and if you know anything about that orginization, you would questions their results vehemently.


Plus their HMB wasn't on the list, so its all god to me.

 

[RippedUp]

A reputable company wouldn't let this sort of things happen. (i.e. the contamination)

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Sorry RippedUp but it happens everyday from your reputable companies. You just don't hear about it. I remember Optimum protein tested for nandrolone metabolites, but like I said before the amount was so small it wouldn't have any effect at all. I think they specualted it could of been the size of a pinhead and it would contaminate the test. So holding people to a 100% pure product is ridiculous.

 

[jweave23]

I'm going to have to go with Bobo on this one. From what I can tell, even if there was a small amount of DHEA in 3 products, I think it may be overdoing to say to avoid all their products. Also I will say I don't trust the IOC's motivations there either, but regardless, I don't think this means that there is a significant quality control problem (enought to warrant serious concern).

 

[Dwight Schrute]

IOC is throwing gobs of money towards governments to control supplement companies under federal supervision. They've been telling people for years that the government should regulate supp companies like pharm companies. But thats another subject...

"The IOC hopes the results of this study demonstrate to governments and the industry the need for greater quality control to ensure substances not found on the label are not found in the product. The IOC Medical Commission recommends controls, similar to those pertaining to the manufacture of pharmaceuticals, be applied to the production of nutritional supplements.

The IOC also will recommend to National Olympic Committees (NOCs), International Federations (IFs) and Organizing Committees (OCOGs) that they adopt a cautious stance toward forming relationships with companies that produce nutritional supplements of which the quality cannot be guaranteed."

 

[dsade]

Isn't this why food products carry the warning "This item was manufactured on machinery that processes peanuts"? No matter how careful they are, some cross contamination is unavoidable - even with something as serious as peanuts?

 

[RippedUp]

Cross-contamination and unpure products is unacceptable in today's state of the supp. industry.
There is too much competition going on to f*ck-up somewhere.

This lack of quality control from certain companies is the reason why I have never in my whole life bought,
- an Optimum Nut. product
- an Ultimate Nut. product
- a HDT product

Thanks.

 

[RippedUp]

I am almost certain that companies such as Met-Rx, etc. test each of their batches before they leave the factory to make sure they are pure and free of contaminants. If one batch didn't come 100% satisfactory, it would be destroyed.

There's too much to lose - and HDT lost a great deal of customers after they were caught with their PH supp.

 

[RippedUp]

You guys might not care much about cross-contamination with PHs/DHEA etc. since most of you already use these products.

Being a lifetime natural bber (no AAS, PHs or DHEA derivatives), I would be extremely pissed if I knew that a product I have used or am currently using, contains small amounts of unlisted PHs etc.

 

[RippedUp]

Finally, I'd rather stick with a company that believes in integrity. (sorry for the multiple posts.. the thoughts kept coming after I submitted)

 

[Biggs]

I agree that integrity and quality to the fullest extent possible is very important, but let me ask... do you ever buy canned tuna? do you ever buy fruits or vegetables? do you ever buy... oh hell, you name it... next to nothing is 100% pure, so as long as the supp company, the dairy company, or what have you is consistently 99.9% pure, I don't really give a ****. you're ALWAYS going to get some, no matter how minute, of what you don't pay for... I'm natural too, but I guess I wouldn't get as bent over it... cause I love me some Opti Nut

 

[RippedUp]

I don't think a can of tuna can be contaminated with PHs, can it?

 

[Biggs]

obviously not, didn't realize we were limiting the contamination discussion to PH/supp contamination only. should have said I agree with Bobo in that expecting 100% is nonsensical, and left it at that.

 

[jweave23]

Personally I find your idealism in this topic not in tune with real world expectations. I am all for top-notch products through a means of rigid quality testing procedures, but who isn't? The fact of the matter is that you will never find products completely pure 100% of the time, and anyone in business will tell you that (unless they are part of the sales team) Your expectations of absolute and complete purity and standards testing will not always be met IMO, regardless of what company it is. I take this as a part of the way a business functions, whatever their product or service may be. We can only seek to find companies that minimize this margin of error to a degree that satisfies us personally, as consumers.

This leaves us with the gray area, which is reality, not black and white idealism. You choose to not trust this company because of 3 products that contained trace amounts of DHEA, and that is fine. IMO that is not enough of a basis to speculate as to the quality of all of their products and/or the integrity of the company. If more tests were done on various products and/or the chemical makeup of the products tested were grossly inaccurate then I could say I don't trust them, but until that time I think of it as an example of the peanut warning as stated above.

 

[Biggs]

woo, pragmatism... I LOVE it... karma fo yo ass you porkchoppin sumbitch

 

[RippedUp]

There are currently 200 supp. companies fighting for business. I don't see why I would insist on buying from one that had three products failing a purity test...

Hope you get my point.

 

[RippedUp]

Shouldn't you guys be sleeping by now anyway?

 

[jweave23]

I do get your point, now let's put this in context:

The product asked for was HMB. There are very few companies who sell pure HMB products, and even fewer who do so at a reasonable price. You'll find that HMB is patented to one company: Iowa State University.

http://www.hmb-mti.com/patent.cfm

All raws for HMB must come from this place, so we could more than likely assume that either all of their HMB is flawed, or that purity is decent and all manufacturers producing HMB products use their HMB (as by US patent law). I would think this would mean that we can safely say the HMB is probably pure, but the question remains of the rest of the product (fillers, binders, so on). Even though the trace amounts of PH's found in other products in the study above (.01 to 190 um/m) would certainly not affect humans endocrine system in any measurable way other than possibly a false positive, I see your ideals a a natural would then prevent you from buying Ultimate Nutrition. Well, lucky day, Wojo doesn't seem to care much about that, but I think it's safe bet to say he's at least getting the HMB if nothing else.

 

[Biggs]

Shouldn't you guys be sleeping by now anyway?

.... yes...

aw hell, just can't though, not when weave is still in such a dancin' mood!

 

[jweave23]

lol, I should absolutely be sleeping right now, yeah

 

[RippedUp]

Here's something I have been told by an industry insider.

MTI own the patent, which is a US patent. There are European patents on the product too, but not as specific or severe as in the USA.

It is the licensing of HMB which makes the US brands so expensive and not the manufacturing of the actual material.

Another interesting thing, is that EAS have the rights to use HMB under license, which is common knowledge. However, they apparantly do not buy their material from MTI labs, but an alternative source which might be cheaper who might actually make the material for MTI labs as well.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

There are currently 200 supp. companies fighting for business. I don't see why I would insist on buying from one that had three products failing a purity test...

Hope you get my point.

But your point fails to recognize that 20% of the 643 products they tested were contaminated. That list is a sample of what was found, not the whole list. So if you think its just those 3 companies your sadly mistaken. CHances are if you use a product that makes hormonal supps, you have about 1 in 5 chance that it will be contaminated with trace amounts. THis goes for all of them, not just those three. Your failing to look at the big picture. And no, Metrx doesn't test every batch.

 

[RippedUp]

Here is a reply I got a few months ago from a well respected industry insider. I know we should take everything with a grain of salt, but still, something interesting to point out.

(on another note, programs such as Consumerlab.com test products for such impurities. [PHs etc.] And if you look at the results, you see that a lot of products that passed the test are put out by companies that also sell PHs. There is no excuse for such a thing.)

"MET-Rx....what is on the label is in the product. Each and every batch gets tested befoe it is shipped out. If it doesn't meet claim - it is destroyed - period. As I have explained many times - a compnay this size MUST adhere to label claim as they are in the face of the regulatory agencies (due to size) and they have a huge budget that is spent each year on a QA/QC program to insure the quality of the product.

Your comment about fillers - not from a reputable compnay - the product MUST meet label claim and they would NOT use a lesser quality protein - true fact is that all most all of the top quality proteins (isolates and concentrates) are about the same cost today (it is not like a few years ago when prices had big difference margins) - and simply put - if you are dealing with one of the larger compnaies - they will NOT risk using a cheaper protein to save a few pennies."

 

[Biggs]

why not reveal the identity of the "insider"? was he/she speaking on condition of anonymity? if so, why?

 

[RippedUp]

It was a personal email. I'd rather not reveal his identity as it is somewhat unethical.

Thanks.

 

[Biggs]

you're welcome ...if the individual is well respected, I don't see the problem, especially as what you quoted is nothing negative. if it's a personal email, why share any of it at all in a forum setting? you saw fit to post a part of it, sure, but it doesn't mean anything IMO. nothing personal bro, it's just that this halfway approach of "here's some of what was said by some dood in an email" goes against my grain a little.

 

[RippedUp]

Originally posted by Biggin
why share any of it at all in a forum setting? 

Because this, IMO, is the type of info I would be the most interested in - the behind the scenes of what is happening in the supp. industry, by pple who work there.

As a consumer of nutritional supplements, I would want to find out who is/is not reputable etc. as much as I can - so I can make better/safer/cleaner choices as far as my supplement regimen is concerned.

If you don't find that email I posted above interesting, and worthy of being posted, then this is quite disappointing.. But that's just me.

 

 

 

 

[D D D]

ok i was recently turned onto ultimate nutrition by another members suggestion..im just curious how many people out there have tried there stuff..they have a real cheap hmb(120 caps of 750mgs) and cla(90 caps of 1000mgs for 75-80% cla) now this is exactly what iu have been looking for both need to be taken in high dosages but im worried this is too good to be true can anyone help me out?

I've used their egg protein recently. It's not the best tasting protein but it tastes alright mixed half and half with a decent whey protein. They're Whey protein tastes good. I also tried their creatine about 5 years ago. The creatine was a little grainy and settled a little too quickly but that was prior to the existence of micronized creatine, so that may have changed. I think their products are lower priced because they're a manufacturer and don't seem to spend megabucks on advertising. They may cut some corners??? It's worth trying some of they're stuff since it's not that expensive anyway.

 

[Biggs]

If you don't find that email I posted above interesting, and worthy of being posted, then this is quite disappointing.. But that's just me.

well, it's not that it's uninteresting, but if you yourself said you'd take it with a grain of salt... and you're the one that talked to him... then what should I think when I don't even know the full extent of the conversation or more importantly who the spokesperson even was, and am allowed only a brief excerpt? take it with a 40lb bag of Morton I suppose. anyway, enough of my attitude, I'll stop ridin yer nuts bro

 

[Sheesh]

take it with a 40lb bag of Morton

ROFL...


As for Ultimate Nutrition...I've used their enzymes in the past, and they were very high quality. That's the only product from them that I've used, so I can't really comment on their HMB and CLA which you were interested in wojo. On a side note, their main office is 20 minutes away from my house.


As for this whole purity conversation, I agree with bobo, weave and biggin. Virtually nothing is 100% pure. It's a sick and sad world, but hey, if u don't like it, I'm sure you can always hop a space shuttle to another planet with a quality control system better than ours.

 

[wojo]

ok fellas i appreciate all ur help ..gonna go for it and see what happens

 

[Nelson]

Each and every batch gets tested befoe it is shipped out. If it doesn't meet claim - it is destroyed - period. As I have explained many times - a compnay this size MUST adhere to label claim as they are in the face of the regulatory agencies (due to size) and they have a huge budget that is spent each year on a QA/QC program to insure the quality of the product. i]

I find it hard to believe that any company would test EVERY batch before shipping it out. Sure it`s feasible to test every batch, but it`s also a very time consuming & costly measure to implement. If this were the case, we would be paying even more for the product than we are now.

 

[RippedUp]

Here's to illustrate my point in this thread.

(The company in question is not Ultimate Nut.)

 

[LunaHotel]

I use ultimate nutrition's whey concentrate, which is among the cheapest. I feel I get my money's worth... That is, unless I compare with proteincustomizer's prices, but that's mail-order and Ultimate is from a store, so let's not go there.

I had a 300g creatine jar come with my last 5-lb whey. It seems OK. It increased my lifts and bodyweight as creatine is supposed to.

As for the products wojo's asking about, well I don't know... But I get the impression his money isn't wholly thrown away...

 

[Cogar]

Very interesting thread. I am concerned about contamination, although perhaps not to the same extent as RippedUp. I believe dsade put it well that this could be like the "peanut contamination" labels we have all been seeing lately. It would seem the seriousness of this problem depends on the extent that you are concerned about tiny amounts of prohormone contamination (assuming that is the only contamination, which may not be the case).