Ultimate Diet 2.0 Log - Because Masochist Tendencies Are the Best Types

[booneman77]

Not sure. It was this.
It also gave my buddy who also lifts the same issues today. Isn't just me.

I can't link yet. Google nubreed helix bcaa

that's funny - i literally used a few samples of that just last week (first time i had ever tried it) and had a bit of a BA buzz from it as well. I'd be fairly certain what you felt was from the BA content

 

[stevencfitnes]

that's funny - i literally used a few samples of that just last week (first time i had ever tried it) and had a bit of a BA buzz from it as well. I'd be fairly certain what you felt was from the BA content

So that is what I was trying to figure out too.

I live within 20 minutes of a retail store for the website vitacost.com and I get clearance stuff.

I purchased 160 servings of powdered BA and take that without any problems at all.
I have found a great pre workout stack (stim free) to be

1 scoops BA
3 caps natures way beet root powder
1g tyrosine

Works very well.

 

[booneman77]

So that is what I was trying to figure out too.

I live within 20 minutes of a retail store for the website vitacost.com and I get clearance stuff.

I purchased 160 servings of powdered BA and take that without any problems at all.
I have found a great pre workout stack (stim free) to be

1 scoops BA
3 caps natures way beet root powder
1g tyrosine

Works very well.

Totally agree. BA is my favorite stim free adder since the little bit of tingle and rush gives me a placebo-ost ha. I usually pair it with a pump product like agmatine or citrulline

 

[stevencfitnes]

LOG FOR 8/16/17

Last night was sub optimal.
I did half the delption workout, I could not manage to get the entire session in.

For most large bodyparts you are doing 180 reps. These are slow and they burn.

Yesterday I did sets of 20 or 25, these two a few minutes to complete each and this morning I feel like a truck hit me.
Today I will do the same thing.

Woke up at 1230am yesterday and could not get back to sleep, so let's see how this effects my performance today.

Calories NOW Dictate Fat Loss This Week, Do I Care?

I should be eating 1400 calories. Yesterday I likely ate closer to 1800. This may impact my fat loss, or I may have no idea of my real TDEE and may be fine.

The truth is, I THINK my TDEE is around 2800 even though I am not a beast with lots of muscle mass. Just being on my feet all day and my steps combined with everything else.

We will see, but I won't feel like last week again, so if this means the diet is slightly slower and i have 2 more weeks to do vs feeling so terrible I can't perform, that is fine for me.

 

[HIT4ME]

THAT RESPONSE THO...

The response here is a little over the top guys. That is nuts. I will do my best to keep it updated.
I am going back into the gym today.

The sledgehammer Approach to the diet

I should note that in the past I have done this diet successfully. I basically made it my own version of the CKD and used the same calorie outlines that Lyle has in the book, with a little more of a twist on things.

For example, instead of punishing myself with a stupid amount of depletion workouts, I just keep carbs very low and pushed through until the weekends. I used the weekends less as a one day carb binge and more like a 2 day carb load.

This could be considered "Not the Ultimate Diet" however Lyle did make this the follow up to Body Opus and the original Ultimate Diet book, which were ten day cycles (for Body Opus) and seven days for the original UD.

In those books though, the carb loads were always longer.

I simply hate the short cycle here.

Options For Those That Hate the Timing

You do have options if you want to change the cycle length.
Make the cycle different lengths if you want, or keep it the same, but either way.

As for me I am trying to stick too it best I can guys.

I have some severe body issues, so heading "already lean dude" there is pretty nice, however I feel fat all the time. At least for me.
Years ago I got very lean this way.
I will see what I can do to get there again.

LOGS WILL BE IN RED TO DIFFERENTIATE CHATTER FROM MY OFFICIAL DAILY POSTS.

LOG FOR 8/15/2017

For whatever reason, I stopped getting replies. I was under the impression that no one was all that interesting. So here we are, with a crazy response. That is nice indeed.

So over the weekend, I had to suspend the diet for a few days, this happened after the carb load and I did not gain much fat. If anything I have still lost some fat and I am going to be fine, just fine.

Today will be a depletion workout day, and that is a long assed workout.

I will be trying to go the full distance and get ALL THE DEPLETION into one workout. Heaven help me, this is not fun and I did it before in the past.

Tweaking This Weeks Activity Levels

Last week I did far too much walking. I was foolishly trying to increase my TDEE with around 5 miles walking extra a day. My usual day has me around 10,000-15,000 steps already.

I am using a great pedometer app that has a delay before it starts to count steps. Meaning that you cant just jiggle this thing and get steps that are not steps. Ten steps and THEN it starts counting, which I like.

This had me as high as 22,000-25,000 steps last week. It was just plain stupid, imho and it hurt me big time over the course of the week. I had terrible terrible energy levels and wanted to quit too many times.

Btw, what is this list? I am a lurker here for years and just started posting recently.

I'm very interested in your diet. Seems like an extremely detailed approach, and in fact reminds me of following a HIT4ME log, another person who is a lot more intelligent regarding dieting than I am.

I'll definitely be following along, but probably won't have much to add. Maybe an occasional question, due to my ignorance. Which I will probably text HIT4ME for the answer.

LOG FOR 8/16/17

Last night was sub optimal.
I did half the delption workout, I could not manage to get the entire session in.

For most large bodyparts you are doing 180 reps. These are slow and they burn.

Yesterday I did sets of 20 or 25, these two a few minutes to complete each and this morning I feel like a truck hit me.
Today I will do the same thing.

Woke up at 1230am yesterday and could not get back to sleep, so let's see how this effects my performance today.

Calories NOW Dictate Fat Loss This Week, Do I Care?

I should be eating 1400 calories. Yesterday I likely ate closer to 1800. This may impact my fat loss, or I may have no idea of my real TDEE and may be fine.

The truth is, I THINK my TDEE is around 2800 even though I am not a beast with lots of muscle mass. Just being on my feet all day and my steps combined with everything else.

We will see, but I won't feel like last week again, so if this means the diet is slightly slower and i have 2 more weeks to do vs feeling so terrible I can't perform, that is fine for me.

Yeah...get yourself a fitbit if you can afford it. It's a real eye opener. The fitbit is usually high and not 100% accurate, but I would bet you'd be surprised to see that you don't burn what you think. At least, I was. Maybe you ARE more active and you won't be. But I always figured I'd burned 2500-2700 calories a day and I was shocked by how many days I was in the 2000-2200 range. Happens a lot with work days where I'm sitting in a car or behind a desk, etc. for hours.

 

[stevencfitnes]

Yeah...get yourself a fitbit if you can afford it. It's a real eye opener. The fitbit is usually high and not 100% accurate, but I would bet you'd be surprised to see that you don't burn what you think. At least, I was. Maybe you ARE more active and you won't be. But I always figured I'd burned 2500-2700 calories a day and I was shocked by how many days I was in the 2000-2200 range. Happens a lot with work days where I'm sitting in a car or behind a desk, etc. for hours.

Fitbit. I owned one for a month. it told me I burned 3200-3500 calories a day.

I gave it away to someone who needed it more than me, because those numbers can't be accurate.

 

[HIT4ME]

Fitbit. I owned one for a month. it told me I burned 3200-3500 calories a day.

I gave it away to someone who needed it more than me, because those numbers can't be accurate.

Well, then, you are probably pretty close. I've had days where it says I'm around 3000-3200....a lot of days where it says 2000 too. It seems to be reasonable based on my activity levels, etc. - but reviews often show them to be high and the number of 2000 calorie days vs. 2800+ calorie days was a real eye opener for me.

 

[stevencfitnes]

Well, then, you are probably pretty close. I've had days where it says I'm around 3000-3200....a lot of days where it says 2000 too. It seems to be reasonable based on my activity levels, etc. - but reviews often show them to be high and the number of 2000 calorie days vs. 2800+ calorie days was a real eye opener for me.

Funny enough, I owned a bodymedia device which was so specific it qualified as a medical device.

It measured calories by the minute. You could watch a workout in the gym on the charts it gave and see when you were in a set vs resting.

It also read super high.
I always assumed it to be bs and whenever I get to the 3000 a day intake level I tend to gain fat fast.

 

[stevencfitnes]

Here is what I mean
my bmr is 1800
Adding activity should push it pretty high.

 

[booneman77]

Here is what I mean
my bmr is 1800
Adding activity should push it pretty high.
View attachment 153517

what are you using to plot that all out with? App/net?

 

[stevencfitnes]

It's called Accupedo, I use the pro version.
I like it because it waits ten steps before it starts to register, so no phantom steps.

I generally get 2500-3000 more steps on Samsung s health vs this one, so I know it's accurate or more accurate than.

 

[stevencfitnes]

Damn, am tired and have terrible hunger today.
That's all.

 

[stevencfitnes]

passed out today after work. Literally blacked out.

I don't think this is something that I should be doing in this heat. Today was "cooler" at 100f but I think this is not good for the summer.

I'm sorry guys. I hate to let people down but I can't kill myself either.

 

[HIT4ME]

Dude...how many calories you eating? How much water you drinking? What are you taking for electrolytes?

You will REALLY let us down if you die. So don't do that. But I also don't want to see you give up. Take a break, regroup, let's figure out what went wrong and let's adjust to something that works better. It doesn't matter how you get to your goals, but let's get there. And you can't get there if you die so don't misread me. But don't quit everything.

 

[SFreed]

Yes to this^^^^^^. There's got to be some tweaking that can be done so you can continue.

 

[stevencfitnes]

I'll switch to IIFYM + Fasting.
How can I get a mod to change the title of this?

I want to keep going. To answer you, I'm eating 1400/day and am supplementing with potassium enriched lite salt.

I have not had this since playing hockey as a kid. It's too much to do this.


Ill keep it alive but will change the narrative to IIFYF - When Intermittent Fasting Meets If if Fits Your Macros - Shredded for 2017

I'm quitting this crazy calorie cycling but don't quit anything entirely.

On the plus side, I now have a good thing to write about for that website I mentioned that I'm developing.

I guess what worked for us five years ago isn't always going to work for us right now. We grow as people, we have to outgrow our past else for Condemned to be who we were back then.

I don't know about you, but if that's the way I was going to operate I'll be a broke twelve-year-old hustling for change to rent a video game versus what I am now, and hope to become in life.

 

[HIT4ME]

I'll switch to IIFYM + Fasting.
How can I get a mod to change the title of this?

I want to keep going. To answer you, I'm eating 1400/day and am supplementing with potassium enriched lite salt.

I have not had this since playing hockey as a kid. It's too much to do this.

can someone help me change the title to:

IIFYF - When Intermittent Fasting Meets If it Fits Your Macros - Shredded for January '17

Ill keep it alive but want the title changed if anyone can help with that.

Not sure how to change the title. 1400 calories a day and passing out doesn't sound right. I don't even cone close to passing out on even 600 calls a day...but my metabolism is a bit slower than yours and you seem pretty active.

You drinking enough water? Active and in high heat, honestly, I would be shooting for 2-3 gallons a day.

Is it possible you might be diabetic?

I am glad you are gonna keep plugging. Take a day or two off at least though. Eat a lot of veggies and healthy good and get things back to normal before you go back at is. 2, 3 days...if you are coming back a couple days won't matter. Be safe.

 

[tyga tyga]

Fellow flexible dieter. So now I'm really intrigued lol

 

[stevencfitnes]

Not sure how to change the title. 1400 calories a day and passing out doesn't sound right. I don't even cone close to passing out on even 600 calls a day...but my metabolism is a bit slower than yours and you seem pretty active.

You drinking enough water? Active and in high heat, honestly, I would be shooting for 2-3 gallons a day.

Is it possible you might be diabetic?

Nah, I've been checked my bloods are all good. I also occasionally check my own blood glucose levels and am always doing well. I am just dealing with the heat and low carbs poorly I believe.

I've done psmf just fine even with less heat. This was just back in March of 2017.

 

[HIT4ME]

Although...in second thought...the prospect of you suffering did bring me here. I got a little bit. I am happy. Haha. Kidding!

 

[stevencfitnes]

Although...in second thought...the prospect of you suffering did bring me here. I got a little bit. I am happy. Haha. Kidding!

Yes true. I'll keep it the same. Good point.
It's the heat, lack of carbs and electrolytes though.

 

[booneman77]

There's gotta be something else wrong. 1400 cals isn't low enough for anything like what you're experiencing. Hell, I'm at 1500 right now and AM cardio, PM lifting and eating only 1 meal a day and not having any issues. There's something else at play here.

 

[stevencfitnes]

THIS IS MY GOAL - You guys Blew Me Away

This was some time ago.
I need to get back here or better for January.

Look, I have a history of zigzag dieting and that's a problem. I took a sledgehammer to this and that wasn't right.

I have many months to do this. I need support and holy cow did I get it here. I'm surprised.

 

[stevencfitnes]

There's gotta be something else wrong. 1400 cals isn't low enough for anything like what you're experiencing. Hell, I'm at 1500 right now and AM cardio, PM lifting and eating only 1 meal a day and not having any issues. There's something else at play here.

There is. here comes the terrible truth... I didn't pass out like woke up somewhere else. It was just extreme fatigue.I completely over exaggerated it because I felt like a loser to guys I'll probably never meet in real life.

Yea. You can dip out of the thread if you want but I was trying to just bow out gracefully without being called a *****.

I'm Still gonna log it if people want to read it. If they don't I did an ******* type thing and I get it.

 

[HIT4ME]

There is. here comes the terrible truth... I didn't pass out like woke up somewhere else. It was just extreme fatigue.I completely over exaggerated it because I felt like a loser to guys I'll probably never meet in real life.

Yea. You can dip out of the thread if you want but I was trying to just bow out gracefully without being called a *****.

I'm Still gonna log it if people want to read it. If they don't I did an ******* type thing and I get it.

Brother. It is up to you. If you want to do this, do it. If you don't, then don't worry about us. Sometimes you just don't have the motivation...sometimes it hits you.

We are here to help.

 

[stevencfitnes]

Brother. It is up to you. If you want to do this, do it. If you don't, then don't worry about us. Sometimes you just don't have the motivation...sometimes it hits you.

We are here to help.

**** THAT. I am in this to lean out.
I need the support. I just did a dumb thing as I thought you guys were ONLY interested because of the extreme dieting thing..

Truth is, I have done 24 hour fasting before.
I want this more than anything right now.

SO LET'S DO IT.

 

[booneman77]

Man, i think you really need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture here... Wanting to be lean is one thing, working yourself to the point of almost passing out is another, but being so self-conscious and dramatic is getting to the point of a legit disorder/breakdown. I think you seriously need to take a look at yourself and make sure that you're mentally in a place to succeed before you go down this crazy path, especially when you're trying to start a site and such and inspire and motivate others... if you can't even keep yourself together, how are you going to help another person? And what kind of role model/example are you for leading a HEALTHY lifestyle at that point?

I really wish you all the best,and truly hop that you're successful, but I think you have some things you need to sort out in your head sooner rather than later, or else a diet and being lean will be far from the least of your worries.

 

[SFreed]

There is. here comes the terrible truth... I didn't pass out like woke up somewhere else. It was just extreme fatigue.I completely over exaggerated it because I felt like a loser to guys I'll probably never meet in real life.

Yea. You can dip out of the thread if you want but I was trying to just bow out gracefully without being called a *****.

I'm Still gonna log it if people want to read it. If they don't I did an ******* type thing and I get it.

I'll still be in. It'll take more than that for me to lose interest. H3ll, we were all in the heyboy threads right up to his ban. And that guy was a total douche canoe.

But I think you might want to give some thought the what booneman77 said. There may be some other issues at work here. But then again, most of us have issues we deal with (or try to). And the sad truth is that sometimes, that's easier when it's guys you'll probably never meet in real life.
But either way, I'm in.

 

[stevencfitnes]

I'll still be in. It'll take more than that for me to lose interest. H3ll, we were all in the heyboy threads right up to his ban. And that guy was a total douche canoe.

But I think you might want to give some thought the what booneman77 said. There may be some other issues at work here. But then again, most of us have issues we deal with (or try to). And the sad truth is that sometimes, that's easier when it's guys you'll probably never meet in real life.
But either way, I'm in.

Yes, I fight the mental demons of thinking I am fat and the like. Otherwise, I am healthy, really.
I did a run of LGD-4033 back from march to april. I had my bloods done in May and although I have not done them since, my energy is overall great after quitting caffeine and all other health related stuff there checked out 100%.

it is a mental game, and the more I go on the more I am comfortable at this level, but this was something I attempted because I did it before succesfully.

I am an "old man" now. They have special sections of some forums for the "over 35" set, and it did NOT work for me this time.

I can definitely pick it up.

At my job I get rejected 90% of the time. If i gave up there, I would be screwed. I never give up, I just learn and move on.
Also, I will talk to someone about the mindgame there too.

That is something I need to do.

ps, i would love to see that post you refer to

 

[SFreed]

I believe you when you say you're in it. So let's fire this bytch back up and start working toward your goal, but maybe a little more realistically. I know that it's easy to sit back and say "I burn xxx calories per day just being me, so I'm going to eat 1/2 that and get shredded af". Then the reality hits and the yo yo diet begins. I say that in this instance, slow and steady wins the race. Fix your diet and fix your exercise, but more importantly, fix yourself.

I know there are several who believe that calories are calories, regardless of when you eat them. I've been doing IF for several years, mainly just because the timing works for me.

 

[stevencfitnes]

I believe you when you say you're in it. So let's fire this bytch back up and start working toward your goal, but maybe a little more realistically. I know that it's easy to sit back and say "I burn xxx calories per day just being me, so I'm going to eat 1/2 that and get shredded af". Then the reality hits and the yo yo diet begins. I say that in this instance, slow and steady wins the race. Fix your diet and fix your exercise, but more importantly, fix yourself.

I know there are several who believe that calories are calories, regardless of when you eat them. I've been doing IF for several years, mainly just because the timing works for me.

Bro honestly, I just like doing intermittent fasting because it means that I don't have to worry about food during the most important part of my day which is work.

I probably should explain what I do for a living, but it's basically Make It or Break It commission-only sales. I talked to people and I have an opportunity to sell them and intangible, meaning a product that doesn't really exist. In this case something in exchange for time. I generate leads.

So essentially I'm selling them on an idea to attend a meeting where I get paid if they qualify and go through with the meeting.

That sounds sketchy but it's not. The industry I work in is a billion-dollar one and it's in most Resort towns and that's as far as I want to go with that.

Anybody wants to know they can send me a private message.

Either way, taking lunch breaks and stuff takes me away from my work

So that's really why I do intermittent fasting, I do believe there are other health benefits I do really think that it's good for insulin and what not but I'm not saying it's a Magic Bullet.

I actually just am finishing up a 4500 word article on how to do it and introduction of intermittent fasting, and the big spoiler alert is that it works because it keeps you not hungry during the day, yeah there's some science to back up all hormone claims but it's mainly that it keeps you not hungry during a diet.

 

[SFreed]

HIT4ME is a big Real Estate tycoon (or buffoon, one or the other) and I'm a Retail magnate. It's all what we do to pay the bills. My dream job is Bush Pilot, but that's probably not gonna happen for a while.

 

[Martyfnemec]

HIT4ME is a big Real Estate tycoon (or buffoon, one or the other) and I'm a Retail magnate. It's all what we do to pay the bills. My dream job is Bush Pilot, but that's probably not gonna happen for a while.

I prefer them shaved, personally. Oh, wait. You're talking about something else.

 

[HIT4ME]

Yes, I fight the mental demons of thinking I am fat and the like. Otherwise, I am healthy, really.
I did a run of LGD-4033 back from march to april. I had my bloods done in May and although I have not done them since, my energy is overall great after quitting caffeine and all other health related stuff there checked out 100%.

it is a mental game, and the more I go on the more I am comfortable at this level, but this was something I attempted because I did it before succesfully.

I am an "old man" now. They have special sections of some forums for the "over 35" set, and it did NOT work for me this time.

I can definitely pick it up.

At my job I get rejected 90% of the time. If i gave up there, I would be screwed. I never give up, I just learn and move on.
Also, I will talk to someone about the mindgame there too.

That is something I need to do.

ps, i would love to see that post you refer to

As soon as you said, "Rejected 90% of the time" - I knew what you did. Either you dated for a living (although, most people have lower rejection rates than I did dating), or you were in sales.

I think that booneman77 is right. You may need to step back. The fact of the matter is, compared to the average person on the street you are pretty much above average. Having high standards is good, but when those standards only serve to hold you down because all they do is tell you what is wrong with you, and what you don't have - that becomes negative.

I think that sales can be something that really brings the worst out in us as humans. It is a psychologically damaging profession. The fact of the matter is, most people have been taken by a sales guy, or lied to, etc.- so the next time they come across one they are going to have their guard up. And most people see sales people as being "beneath" them, or less respectable. It is easy for these people, when they get a call they don't really think they want from someone who is "inferior" - to take out their bad day on the sales guy. Exert their power. And after 100 of these calls, it's easy to become exactly the type of guy they are treating you to be. Which perpetuates the cycle.

Look at how you describe what you do - almost like you think it sounds shady, etc. and you have to hide it. We all do that to some degree - but honestly it is the imprint that others have left on you for what you do. You don't need to view things like that.

So you made a stupid mistake, you owned up to it, no foul in my eyes. None of us are perfect. Go look at my logs. Look at how many cheat meals I had when I shouldn't have - people pushed me but they also supported me and I don't think anyone thinks negatively for someone making a mistake. We all make them. We are all on the same path here. Some are further along than others, some are a little better at it than others (practice, practice, practice) - but it's the same path and we all have lives and set backs, etc. No one says you can't fall off the wagon. When you fall off, you can always get back on though. It's your choice and it should be based on what you want for you, and based on you getting from where you are today to getting just a little closer to what you want tomorrow. You aren't going to build a world class physique in a year - in 10 years maybe - but a year isn't enough time. Take it slow and try to enjoy the journey and keep it healthy.

 

[HIT4ME]

Here is something else that you may not be realizing - this log will be up for a long while. You may feel like you are talking to a bunch of guys who have been there/done that - which isn't always true either - but don't forget that a year from now someone who is looking to lose weight may come across this log and start reading it. There are people who are afraid to even try what you are doing - to become healthy and eat better and improve. When they see your log - those failures and mistakes are what will help them the most. Seeing that someone else tried, failed, got back up and kept going will teach them that the failures aren't the end and it may prevent them from making similar mistakes.

Also, you do realize you don't HAVE to fast to lose weight right? I may have missed it in the 4 pages, but do you have a specific diet plan that you've laid out?

 

[stevencfitnes]

As soon as you said, "Rejected 90% of the time" - I knew what you did. Either you dated for a living (although, most people have lower rejection rates than I did dating), or you were in sales.

I think that booneman77 is right. You may need to step back. The fact of the matter is, compared to the average person on the street you are pretty much above average. Having high standards is good, but when those standards only serve to hold you down because all they do is tell you what is wrong with you, and what you don't have - that becomes negative.

I think that sales can be something that really brings the worst out in us as humans. It is a psychologically damaging profession. The fact of the matter is, most people have been taken by a sales guy, or lied to, etc.- so the next time they come across one they are going to have their guard up. And most people see sales people as being "beneath" them, or less respectable. It is easy for these people, when they get a call they don't really think they want from someone who is "inferior" - to take out their bad day on the sales guy. Exert their power. And after 100 of these calls, it's easy to become exactly the type of guy they are treating you to be. Which perpetuates the cycle.

I hear what you are saying. Ethics in sales are important, and it is easy to become something you do not want to be. I have been doing this for over ten years now, and only started to take it seriously in the past two. If I could write a book about what my ten years were like, or chart it, it would look like the Al Gore "hockey stick" chart, where nothing happens, then BOOM everything happens.

The past two years I have nearly tripled my income, and my life is financially so great right now. I will make my millions in time too.

Look at how you describe what you do - almost like you think it sounds shady, etc. and you have to hide it. We all do that to some degree - but honestly it is the imprint that others have left on you for what you do. You don't need to view things like that.

I only added the end part regarding sounding shady because of how I described it. Honestly, if I were to have been able to describe in depth and with context in the industry that I work, it would have made perfect sense and nothing about it would have sounded "off," but I do understand where you are coming from.

I am fully aware too that the stigma behind sales people has nothing to do with what a person is selling. A sales trainer that I like to follow says it when he points out that everyone has programming on what a sales experience or person is like. They think we are okay, great or terrible and part of the sales process is overcoming whatever they may think.

That is why in the same market, same product, same clients one person would be super successful and the other broke.

So you made a stupid mistake, you owned up to it, no foul in my eyes. None of us are perfect....

Thank you, that is reassuring to know that there is not a lot of judgement here.

 

[stevencfitnes]

Here is something else that you may not be realizing - this log will be up for a long while. You may feel like you are talking to a bunch of guys who have been there/done that - which isn't always true either - but don't forget that a year from now someone who is looking to lose weight may come across this log and start reading it. There are people who are afraid to even try what you are doing - to become healthy and eat better and improve. When they see your log - those failures and mistakes are what will help them the most. Seeing that someone else tried, failed, got back up and kept going will teach them that the failures aren't the end and it may prevent them from making similar mistakes.

Also, you do realize you don't HAVE to fast to lose weight right? I may have missed it in the 4 pages, but do you have a specific diet plan that you've laid out?

I enjoy fasting. It gives me time in the morning to be me.

I know that moderation will win here, and if I would be very lean at 162-165 lbs, then I can take this slowly.

In terms of programming, I will take IIFYM and combine it with my fasting and just eat what I think will be a plan to lose between 0.5-1 lb a week, however this thread will help to nail down a tdee for me once and for all.

With that, planning this out, here is what makes sense to me:

I have 19 weeks to January 1, 2018

If I break it down into 4 week periods, I can really make some great progress and discoveries.
During this time I will stick on cardarine GW 50156 for the first 4 weeks and will take a break until the last 6 weeks or so.
I will use MK 677 the entire time, that is a long term use product anyhow.

Week 1-4

Eating at my maintenance which I will put at 2750 right now, to see if this is correct.
There is a way stupid, over the top 4 week program by "natural" (drug user) Kris Gethin that is basically a lactic acid german body comp training that I have wanted to try. It has a lot of volume which always works well for me.

I would not even try it, but I like Charles Poliquin, and he is an advocate of type of training (he wrote several books on it).

The science says that training this way raises HGH naturally, causes fat loss and muscle gain.

This period will give me a break from dieting and should reset hormones back where they need to be.

Weeks 4-8 and onwards

I will end the high volume training and will adjust calories as needed, starting to lower down to lose around 1lb a week.

I will figure out the training, but will lean towards a modified version of a RPT scheme with some accessory work thrown in, which has worked for me in the past when I had a desk job and actually KNEW my calories.

That should be a good plan to keep, and a roadmap is important.

 

[SFreed]

I'm glad you decided to continue. Looking forward to the next 19 weeks!

And isn't HIT4ME something! Incredible knowledge and very supportive. Just a warning though, at some point he will turn into a dik. I've seen it hundreds of times.

 

[HIT4ME]

I'm glad you decided to continue. Looking forward to the next 19 weeks!

And isn't HIT4ME something! Incredible knowledge and very supportive. Just a warning though, at some point he will turn into a dik. I've seen it hundreds of times.

LOL, I certainly THINK I know it all. I won't turn into a dik. I am ALWAYS a dik. I already admitted the idea of him fainting/suffering had me a little turned on. As usual though, SFreed gives me too much praise. Guy makes me blush to be honest. I sometimes wonder if he's playin' with my ego.
sevencfitnes - that is a great overall plan, but for me, my weakness is details. This means, I have to have the details planned out so they don't become details anymore. I mean, I plan out a daily eating schedule, or 2-3 possible daily eating schedules with meals that fit certain macros and can be interchanged, and I know I can have those meals and plan on eating them.

I like fasting too. But I also find that having a small (even just 100-200 calories of mostly protein) meal earlier in the day keeps me from over eating. I can stick to <900 cals a day if I plan on 2 meals with approx. 200-250 calories and a third meal with <400 calories. It barely even feels like dieting at that point....at least for me..

 

[stevencfitnes]

UPDATE FOR 8/18/17
Lets talk about training then​

So I have a 25 year old friend that is a typical American type guy in the sense that I am not.
I am from Canada but live in the United States now.

That is to say, that he started training when he was 14 years old for football, and never stopped. That is a very much American thing that I have always admired. We chat about gym, diet, training and a lot of other stuff and he mentioned the most stupid over the top workout that I ever heard of.

What makes this worse? It is one of those dreaded bodybuilding dot com monstrosities.
Adding to all this, the crazy person friend of mine did it, and got these fantastic results on it last year.

So against my judgement, I am doing a super high rep range over the top program which I started yesterday.

To be clear, it is not for natural lifters

The program in question is by Kris Gethin. If there was ever a stereotype of the "bro" but from the UK, it would be this guy. He is very much a characterized version of a real person by all accounts and purposes.

It uses super high reps to accomplish muscle failure, but at the same time I am aware the science behind this stuff is the same thing that Charles Poliquin (also controversial to some, but also a super smart guy) talks about with high volume training like German Body Composition or lactic acid thresholds.

These do have science behind them for fat loss and muscle retention, so there is that.

So I started the 4 week "DTP" program yesterday

I am not a natural trainee...

I will remind anyone reading that I am on Cardarine/GW and MK677 as I do this log, that there is important to note. If anything, just the endurance benefits of the GW are going to help me to not die on a superset that combines 500 reps (yea, you read that right. I cannot post links, go look the program up).

The time between sets is short and I know that it would have killed me a year ago.

This morning I have a dull ache in the legs, but I did workout only 12 hours ago, so I have another 8 or so to see if I start to feel terrible soreness... The GW should help that though, and the MK is holding water everywhere so I guess that that will help too.

Yesterdays Diet?

I stuck to 2800 calories. I used a free version of the now email sign up only IIFYM calculator and it gave me
C - 378
P - 144
F - 77

That is fine I guess, I am a carb phobic guy so that is a good number to shoot for, to get over and around that and grow as a person.

I did wake up though around 1.5 hours into sleep voraciously hungry. This is the MK and of course it was carbohydrates I wanted (which is the GW talking).

I had some pretty awesome organic cereal I got on a closeout sale. Just dry, so a bowl of carbs. I need to get around those night cravings some how.

Aside from that sleep was freaking fantastic, woke up incredibly well rested.

I may take HIT4ME suggestion and eat protein in the morning, I have a good allmax casein isolate but will try not to if I do not have to.

If you have done anything like MK 677, the hunger can effect you strangely. They say it goes away, for me it always nags in waves a little bit.

 

[booneman77]

I've actually run DTP and one of Gethin's other programs and really liked it and saw good results as well... not sure why you're so against it (stupid/over the top/monstrosity? - maybe a bit dramatic ha)... Is it to an extreme of the volume vs intensity scale? sure. But to say its stupid is a bit much. Realistically, since its only 4 days a week, the total weekly volume really isnt anything exceptional. You figure if you went a normal high volume workout, and went 5-6 days, you'd probably end up similarly in the total reps completed, just in multiple sessions...

 

[stevencfitnes]

I've actually run DTP and one of Gethin's other programs and really liked it and saw good results as well... not sure why you're so against it (stupid/over the top/monstrosity? - maybe a bit dramatic ha)... Is it to an extreme of the volume vs intensity scale? sure. But to say its stupid is a bit much. Realistically, since its only 4 days a week, the total weekly volume really isnt anything exceptional. You figure if you went a normal high volume workout, and went 5-6 days, you'd probably end up similarly in the total reps completed, just in multiple sessions...

Well it is against conventional evidence based coaching, and I am just trying to be dramatic more than anything.

It definitely isn't what I think most people on bodybuilding dot com should even consider if new to the site, it would cause injury in most folks and CNS burnout.

Am inspired that you got good results.

If this does me well I'll do his 12 week daily trainer afterwards which would be... 16 weeks total!
booneman77 let me ask you, what calories did you use (surplus? Amount over maintenance? Did you track?) and did you see fat gain?

 

[MrKleen73]

I have run the Ultimate Diet 2.0 twice now through completion and once I quit due to GI issues post Carb load. It is unfortunate at the first sign of trouble you chose to dump the diet instead of adjusting it to work within your personal situation.

Big part of the problem, you are not lean enough to be eating 1.2g of protein per lb of bodyweight optimally. Inevitably at that point protein is broen down into glutamine then broken down for energy and ATP. Since it is the most abundant macro you have your body will turn to it preferentially instead of fats. As a rule for more fat loss you should be getting in .8g per lb of LBM and filling in the rest of that 1400 calories with fats. That would have solved most of your energy problems and would have controlled insulin better. Your electrolyte game was also a little off, replacing sodium in salt with potassium chloride during the summer on low carbs was a recipe for disaster! You sweat & urinate sodium out a lot more than potassium so not replacing it and favoring the potassium surely created an electrolyte imbalance.

If you ever go back to UD2.0 an adjustment you should make is for your power day on Saturday refeed should NOT be based on TUT, slow contractions in workouts impede the GLUT4 translocatoin to the cell wall decreasing insulin sensitivity, and explosive contractions increase Glut4 translocation and insulin sensitivity. So for that particular piece you do not want to do slow reps at any point during your carb load phase.

Sorry if any of this seems abrupt, but I invested a decent amount of time into reading this because it was supposed to be a UD2.0 log, and had a list of quotes I was going to address to try and help you with getting the diet adjusted until I got to the end and saw that it was abandoned. So I truncated them into a short post for anyone who wants to try and run it successfully later, or for you if you decide you want to have another go at it with some tweaks that could make it much easier on you.

As far as your job, it sound like you sell time shares or generate leads for them. Is that what you do? If so everyone knows what that is so it won't need to be explained. That or just say Telemarketing.

Good luck brother and I hope you do well in your journey. I will be following along and supporting.
HIT4ME, and SFreed why is it I haven't been added to your mention list? You guys don't love me no mo?

 

[MrKleen73]

Well it is against conventional evidence based coaching, and I am just trying to be dramatic more than anything.

It definitely isn't what I think most people on bodybuilding dot com should even consider if new to the site, it would cause injury in most folks and CNS burnout.

Am inspired that you got good results.

If this does me well I'll do his 12 week daily trainer afterwards which would be... 16 weeks total!
booneman77 let me ask you, what calories did you use (surplus? Amount over maintenance? Did you track?) and did you see fat gain?

High volume, high reps with lower intensity IE resistance is not very hard on the CNS at all. It would take an insane amount of volume in that aspect to even approach CNS burn out unless you have adrenal issues on top of other things. CNS burnout come along more with heavier lifting which is actually CNS intensive. It is also harder to achieve than most people think, unless under-eating and not getting in the right micro-nutrients.

 

[stevencfitnes]

I have run the Ultimate Diet 2.0 twice now through completion and once I quit due to GI issues post Carb load. It is unfortunate at the first sign of trouble you chose to dump the diet instead of adjusting it to work within your personal situation.

Big part of the problem, you are not lean enough to be eating 1.2g of protein per lb of bodyweight optimally. Inevitably at that point protein is broen down into glutamine then broken down for energy and ATP. Since it is the most abundant macro you have your body will turn to it preferentially instead of fats. As a rule for more fat loss you should be getting in .8g per lb of LBM and filling in the rest of that 1400 calories with fats. That would have solved most of your energy problems and would have controlled insulin better. Your electrolyte game was also a little off, replacing sodium in salt with potassium chloride during the summer on low carbs was a recipe for disaster! You sweat & urinate sodium out a lot more than potassium so not replacing it and favoring the potassium surely created an electrolyte imbalance.

If you ever go back to UD2.0 an adjustment you should make is for your power day on Saturday refeed should NOT be based on TUT, slow contractions in workouts impede the GLUT4 translocatoin to the cell wall decreasing insulin sensitivity, and explosive contractions increase Glut4 translocation and insulin sensitivity. So for that particular piece you do not want to do slow reps at any point during your carb load phase.

Sorry if any of this seems abrupt, but I invested a decent amount of time into reading this because it was supposed to be a UD2.0 log, and had a list of quotes I was going to address to try and help you with getting the diet adjusted until I got to the end and saw that it was abandoned. So I truncated them into a short post for anyone who wants to try and run it successfully later, or for you if you decide you want to have another go at it with some tweaks that could make it much easier on you.

As far as your job, it sound like you sell time shares or generate leads for them. Is that what you do? If so everyone knows what that is so it won't need to be explained. That or just say Telemarketing.

Good luck brother and I hope you do well in your journey. I will be following along and supporting.
HIT4ME, and SFreed why is it I haven't been added to your mention list? You guys don't love me no mo?

Awesome reply. Yes in the past I was leaner when I started the diet. It was also years ago and I did run it twice successfully.

I wanted the title of this thread changed, but could not find a moderator to do it. Sorry if you feel misled.

Yep, timeshare.

Who is to say I won't go back to this in ten weeks for the final six weeks of my quest for lean?


When it's winter where I am, it is a daily high of 45-55 degrees and life becomes a lot less physically stressful.

That and the fact that Christmas is a great time to be able to do carb loads.

I'll still be doing this log. This log will be damn epic.

 

[stevencfitnes]

High volume, high reps with lower intensity IE resistance is not very hard on the CNS at all. It would take an insane amount of volume in that aspect to even approach CNS burn out unless you have adrenal issues on top of other things. CNS burnout come along more with heavier lifting which is actually CNS intensive. It is also harder to achieve than most people think, unless under-eating and not getting in the right micro-nutrients.

Point well taken.

When I was using 1.5grams caffeine a day, I had a hell of a time doing anything.

Here is what would happen:

1. Start a program and go hard at it.

2. Around two weeks in after adjusting it would get very intense... I am not a believer in doing anything but all out in the gym so I always like to approach failure.

3. At some point I'd wake up feeling like I had the flu. Mostly after leg day. Horrible body aches and inability to feel good at all all day for a day or two.

I started to investigate what large doses of caffeine were doing and surprise surprise, I was essentially jacking up my adrenals so bad that I'm certain that if there was a candidate for the "adrenal fatigue" boogeyman to exist, I was it.

The fact is that caffeine definitely does force the adrenals to work harder. Does adrenal fatigue exist? Apparently not according to some but a much worse hormonal deficiency does.

Still, I went and purchased "Now Foods Super Cortisol Support" and some raw adrenal and quit caffeine.

Since July 2nd I've not had caffeine outside of chocolate (no liquids, pre workout or pill forms) and I now wonder what I could have done if I wasn't stupid with stimulants all this time.

 

[MrKleen73]

Awesome reply. Yes in the past I was leaner when I started the diet. It was also years ago and I did run it twice successfully.

I wanted the title of this thread changed, but could not find a moderator to do it. Sorry if you feel misled.

Yep, timeshare.

Who is to say I won't go back to this in ten weeks for the final six weeks of my quest for lean?


When it's winter where I am, it is a daily high of 45-55 degrees and life becomes a lot less physically stressful.

That and the fact that Christmas is a great time to be able to do carb loads.

I'll still be doing this log. This log will be damn epic.

Oh no, not mislead. I am an intense guy and love intense looking things. I also love to try new things, especially stuff others turn up their nose at because they look hard or are new and don't follow the old dogmatic rules of nutrition. I feel I need to do these things if I want to be able to coach others and have a lot of tools in my toolbox. So I bite off more than I can chew on occasion. Plus I have abused my body for 32 years now. I tend to abuse myself sometimes and have to readjust, back out or seriously modify things so that I can continue to make progress. I just tend to try and make several adjustments before abandoning the effort. I was hoping to be able to help you keep it going because the reality is that it works well when you can stick to it.

Point well taken.

When I was using 1.5grams caffeine a day, I had a hell of a time doing anything.

Here is what would happen:

1. Start a program and go hard at it.

2. Around two weeks in after adjusting it would get very intense... I am not a believer in doing anything but all out in the gym so I always like to approach failure.

3. At some point I'd wake up feeling like I had the flu. Mostly after leg day. Horrible body aches and inability to feel good at all all day for a day or two.

I started to investigate what large doses of caffeine were doing and surprise surprise, I was essentially jacking up my adrenals so bad that I'm certain that if there was a candidate for the "adrenal fatigue" boogeyman to exist, I was it.

The fact is that caffeine definitely does force the adrenals to work harder. Does adrenal fatigue exist? Apparently not according to some but a much worse hormonal deficiency does.

Still, I went and purchased "Now Foods Super Cortisol Support" and some raw adrenal and quit caffeine.

Since July 2nd I've not had caffeine outside of chocolate (no liquids, pre workout or pill forms) and I now wonder what I could have done if I wasn't stupid with stimulants all this time.

Good deal and you are definitely going to have to get this mentality "I am not a believer in doing anything but all out in the gym so I always like to approach failure." in check or deal with a lot of injuries in the future as you begin to age.

That was how I worked out for a very long time and now I am in a position where I abuse my body so much that I have to short cycle all of my very intense lifting so as to not reaggravate some over use injury. Bottom line the science does not support the 100% effort all the time mentality, and proves that the body can not sustain this type of effort without breaking down either.

A well designed program should ALWAYS have cyclical intensity and volume. Working to failure should be done in short stints toward the end of the intensity cycle after ramping up both volume and intensity, IE resistance.

 

[stevencfitnes]

Oh no, not mislead. I am an intense guy and love intense looking things. I also love to try new things, especially stuff others turn up their nose at because they look hard or are new and don't follow the old dogmatic rules of nutrition. I feel I need to do these things if I want to be able to coach others and have a lot of tools in my toolbox. So I bite off more than I can chew on occasion. Plus I have abused my body for 32 years now. I tend to abuse myself sometimes and have to readjust, back out or seriously modify things so that I can continue to make progress. I just tend to try and make several adjustments before abandoning the effort. I was hoping to be able to help you keep it going because the reality is that it works well when you can stick to it.


Good deal and you are definitely going to have to get this mentality "I am not a believer in doing anything but all out in the gym so I always like to approach failure." in check or deal with a lot of injuries in the future as you begin to age.

That was how I worked out for a very long time and now I am in a position where I abuse my body so much that I have to short cycle all of my very intense lifting so as to not reaggravate some over use injury. Bottom line the science does not support the 100% effort all the time mentality, and proves that the body can not sustain this type of effort without breaking down either.

A well designed program should ALWAYS have cyclical intensity and volume. Working to failure should be done in short stints toward the end of the intensity cycle after ramping up both volume and intensity, IE resistance.

Don't disagree, however at two weeks, feeling over trained was too much. Balance matters you are correct though.

 

[MrKleen73]

Don't disagree, however at two weeks, feeling over trained was too much. Balance matters you are correct though.

Oh certainly, that was my point even 2 weeks at full bore is going to tear you down some, you want to build up to it so that the last 2 weeks are full bore and push you to over-reaching, which is really just a planned short burst of intentional overtraining. Then you follow that with a deload week and make most of the gains during the deload while your body rushes to prepare for another onslaught of hard work. Then start back over with your lows just a wee bit higher than the lows at the beginning of the last training cycle, rinse and repeat.

So, what is the difference going to be about your IF protocol and all of the others out there? You said for the average person not the bodybuilder. IF has typically always been for the average person trying to lean up, get healthier, and life extension. It wasn't really until Lean Gains that it was targeted at those who were specifically trying to build muscle.

How many IF protocols have you done and for how long did you do them to test them out? What were your favorite protocols and why did you like them better. What benefits do you feel your method has over the others like the Warrior Diet, Alternate Day Fasting, 20/4 fasting, and Lean Gains style? Just curious, I started doing lean gains several years ago and have tried multiples and then kind of pieced together the things I found worked very well for me.

 

[stevencfitnes]

Oh certainly, that was my point even 2 weeks at full bore is going to tear you down some, you want to build up to it so that the last 2 weeks are full bore and push you to over-reaching, which is really just a planned short burst of intentional overtraining. Then you follow that with a deload week and make most of the gains during the deload while your body rushes to prepare for another onslaught of hard work. Then start back over with your lows just a wee bit higher than the lows at the beginning of the last training cycle, rinse and repeat.

This is actually the same principle in the book "Big Beyond Belief," which is a great book if you use the 4 day a week protocol.

So, what is the difference going to be about your IF protocol and all of the others out there? You said for the average person not the bodybuilder. IF has typically always been for the average person trying to lean up, get healthier, and life extension. It wasn't really until Lean Gains that it was targeted at those who were specifically trying to build muscle.

I am finishing up a 4500 word article on this. If i had to distill it to under a hundred:
* Diet adherance
* Hunger control
* Helping insulin response after a period of over feeding of carbs
* Hormonal advantages (albeit small) in terms of HGH, insulin, ghrelin

How many IF protocols have you done and for how long did you do them to test them out?

Leangains (strict, with carb and calorie cycling) for months and months, worked well when I had less physical activity and was at a desk job. My variation was working out in the mornings, using BCAA every 2-3 hours until evening feeding.

Eat Stop Eat when I could get away with it.

Carb Backloading, but that becomes a slippery slope and you would be better to just count calories... which becomes KINOBODY if you just stick to the same calories daily.

What were your favorite protocols and why did you like them better.

I like what I am doing now which is a flexible eating window that can be broken if needed without feeling bad, and with the same macros every day. No up and downs and allows for a better adherence to the diet. Allows for set foods that can be prepped if people want to do that, and for training to be whatever works for the dieter.

What benefits do you feel your method has over the others like the Warrior Diet, Alternate Day Fasting, 20/4 fasting, and Lean Gains style? Just curious, I started doing lean gains several years ago and have tried multiples and then kind of pieced together the things I found worked very well for me.

Well, I was calling this IIFYF (if it fits your fasting) however IIFYM is actually a trademarked copyright so I guess I cannot do that.
The method I use is set up with a few things in mind.

* Less neurotic dieting and practices that can sometimes effect men to an extent that they can develop disordered eating. Women can get this too, but men can have a proclivity to develop binge eating or clean eating problems, especially with fasting I feel. That is not backed by science, just my own experiences in reading and researching.

* The science is all there for specific versions of different diets, but there is a point of diminishing returns. Regadless of a 16, 20 or 24 hour fast does it mean that much more GH release or calorie burning?

* Sets people up for the basic advantages of the diet. Reduced hunger, increased energy, ability to eat big during social periods.

* Makes eating easier with eating the same daily macros, or allowing flexibility based on what their schedule is like. Not having to tell the wife of significant other that you would love to go to the movies and eat out this SATURDAY because that is a training day and you can eat big. My wife would understand, but she is a patient woman, that is for sure.

* Allows people to train as often as they need or want to. Since setting up a set deficit daily is the goal, there is no calorie cycling so you can workout as needed and be flexible in the timing.

I am 36 years old. When I began this I was 29. As such, I would dedicate time differently. I would focus less on work and more on eating and the gym. Now, I need to have things flexible, and it makes this whole sticking to the diet thing a lot easier.

That is what I feel.

I am interested in your thoughts. You seemed to feel that I had my own system, which I do, but I have not posted about that at all here. This is what I have developed over the past almost seven years.

thanks!