Turning 40 is TRT an option

[Musdog]

I am turning 40 this year and was thinking of starting TRT. I have done some research into the subject and there is a lot to digest depending on what resources you trust. My biggest question is if a doctor will prescribe TRT if I am within “normal” range?

Any advice would be helpful.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

some might. an example would be Titan medical. they surely would, but that price may be high and not work with your insurance if that's a thing.

The first place you could start is asking your friends and collogues if they have anyone in town that is TRT friendly, and go from there.

 

[Rostam]

Why do you want to have a TRT if your testosterone is in the range?

 

[Musdog]

some might. an example would be Titan medical. they surely would, but that price may be high and not work with your insurance if that's a thing.

The first place you could start is asking your friends and collogues if they have anyone in town that is TRT friendly, and go from there.

I would ask friends and collogues except I don't know of any that are on TRT. Small town and not a lot of options. Thanks for the suggestion, it is a starting place. My insurance does not cover such products so it is all out of pocket.

 

[Musdog]

Why do you want to have a TRT if your testosterone is in the range?

I have been told range is from 200 to 1000. Like Composner said it depends on the doctor.

 

[kisaj]

It's possible you don't need it, but after 40, chances are it will help you. Even being in range, you will see more improvement with muscle building, fat loss, recovery, and likely other benefits on TRT. Exogenous test increases androgen sensitivity.

Some basics:
- The reference range will depend on what lab the doctor uses. For instance Qwest diagnostics is 250-1110, Labcorp is 264-916, etc. The only constant is that the range keeps dropping- hmmm, wonder why. When I got on 13 years ago, the low end was 384.
- You want full labs: CBC w/lipids, total and free test, LH, FSH, thyroid, SHBG, DHEAS, pregnenolone, and if possible e2 sensitive. You need all of this to get a good picture of what is going on- total test only will tell you very little.
- Creams, gels, and pellets are okay, but if you need TRT, ultimately you will likely end up on injections. Minimum 1x weekly, more frequent is better. Anyone that tries to steer you towards longer than 1x weekly- walk away from.
- You do not need HCG or an AI to begin with, it only adds complexity and variables. Clinics will try to push this- say no.

 

[Smont]

I am turning 40 this year and was thinking of starting TRT. I have done some research into the subject and there is a lot to digest depending on what resources you trust. My biggest question is if a doctor will prescribe TRT if I am within “normal” range?

Any advice would be helpful.

My question would be what do you think you're gonna gain by going on TRT if you're already within the upper normal range. If you're in the upper normal range and you go on you're gonna shut yourself down just to replace it with the same amount of testosterone and gain nothing, outside of a low calorie low bodyfat Scenario Kama in that case it would maintain your testosterone levels but you would need to be on very low calories and single digit body fat for it to make a difference.

If your testosterone came back low or you plan on starting to run cycles then I can see the benefits of getting a script. But if your test is say...... over 509-600, and you just want trt thinking it's going to make a significant difference, it won't really.

So what's the actual goal here?

 

[cruze1911r1]

What's your goals? I look at it like this. A good oral cycle is going to need a test base. By the time you throw in all the pct compounds to just to get natural test levels back that may or may not support the gains made on cycle its probably a lot cheaper to blast and cruise even out of pocket and definitely simpler with likely better gains and less stress on the internal organs. Sh1t, I think I just talked myself into it lol.

 

[Musdog]

It's possible you don't need it, but after 40, chances are it will help you. Even being in range, you will see more improvement with muscle building, fat loss, recovery, and likely other benefits on TRT. Exogenous test increases androgen sensitivity.

Some basics:
- The reference range will depend on what lab the doctor uses. For instance Qwest diagnostics is 250-1110, Labcorp is 264-916, etc. The only constant is that the range keeps dropping- hmmm, wonder why. When I got on 13 years ago, the low end was 384.
- You want full labs: CBC w/lipids, total and free test, LH, FSH, thyroid, SHBG, DHEAS, pregnenolone, and if possible e2 sensitive. You need all of this to get a good picture of what is going on- total test only will tell you very little.
- Creams, gels, and pellets are okay, but if you need TRT, ultimately you will likely end up on injections. Minimum 1x weekly, more frequent is better. Anyone that tries to steer you towards longer than 1x weekly- walk away from.
- You do not need HCG or an AI to begin with, it only adds complexity and variables. Clinics will try to push this- say no.

Thanks for the short and to the point information. I have done labs so I have all that information. And it is possible I don't need TRT but looking to decrease fatigue, improve recovery, and build muscle. I understand good sleep, diet, routine, and everything else but just don't feel the same as I used to.

My question would be what do you think you're gonna gain by going on TRT if you're already within the upper normal range. If you're in the upper normal range and you go on you're gonna shut yourself down just to replace it with the same amount of testosterone and gain nothing, outside of a low calorie low bodyfat Scenario Kama in that case it would maintain your testosterone levels but you would need to be on very low calories and single digit body fat for it to make a difference.

If your testosterone came back low or you plan on starting to run cycles then I can see the benefits of getting a script. But if your test is say...... over 509-600, and you just want trt thinking it's going to make a significant difference, it won't really.

So what's the actual goal here?

As stated before maybe I don't need TRT and I have read that if you are at 500 and want to go to 800 that it is not a noticeable difference. The actual goal is to lower fatigue, improve recovery, build muscle and increase my sex drive. The reason I was considering TRT is I have taken prohormones in the past and they worked for those aspects. So if those worked I was considering TRT as it would be similar in price and is more of a medical procedure monitored by a doctor, thus producing better results and overall health.

Reaching out on this form as there are knowledgeable people that have experience with TRT and compiling advice will help me form a conclusion.

 

[kisaj]

Thanks for the short and to the point information. I have done labs so I have all that information. And it is possible I don't need TRT but looking to decrease fatigue, improve recovery, and build muscle. I understand good sleep, diet, routine, and everything else but just don't feel the same as I used to.

So what did those lab results conclude? Are you deficient in any areas, out of range either direction, any concerns mentioned?

In short, there are a lot of benefits to TRT and few risks, but it shouldn't be a consideration until everything else has been looked at to help. Your responses are pretty vague, so not sure how much any of us will be able to help.

 

[Smont]

Thanks for the short and to the point information. I have done labs so I have all that information. And it is possible I don't need TRT but looking to decrease fatigue, improve recovery, and build muscle. I understand good sleep, diet, routine, and everything else but just don't feel the same as I used to.



As stated before maybe I don't need TRT and I have read that if you are at 500 and want to go to 800 that it is not a noticeable difference. The actual goal is to lower fatigue, improve recovery, build muscle and increase my sex drive. The reason I was considering TRT is I have taken prohormones in the past and they worked for those aspects. So if those worked I was considering TRT as it would be similar in price and is more of a medical procedure monitored by a doctor, thus producing better results and overall health.

Reaching out on this form as there are knowledgeable people that have experience with TRT and compiling advice will help me form a conclusion.

So what did those lab results conclude? Are you deficient in any areas, out of range either direction, any concerns mentioned?

In short, there are a lot of benefits to TRT and few risks, but it shouldn't be a consideration until everything else has been looked at to help. Your responses are pretty vague, so not sure how much any of us will be able to help.

Ya this is my point, we need labs or something. Just taking testosterone won't improve the things you mentioned unless low testosterone is the cause of the problems. You're not really giving anyone enough information to accurately help you

 

[botk1161]

At 56, TRT did nothing (over the course of about 16 months) to improve my fatigue, strength, recovery, endurance or ability to build muscle. My TRT dose is 100mg which puts me about 750-800. I expected much more and maybe you are too.
Only when test was used at 300mg+ did I see any difference whatsoever.

 

[kisaj]

At 56, TRT did nothing (over the course of about 16 months) to improve my fatigue, strength, recovery, endurance or ability to build muscle. My TRT dose is 100mg which puts me about 750-800. I expected much more and maybe you are too.
Only when test was used at 300mg+ did I see any difference whatsoever.

Of course, you are by far an exception.

 

[sammpedd88]

Of course, you are by far an exception.

I agree. Sounds like maybe his E2 was off or maybe wasn’t adding preg or DHEA.

 

[botk1161]

I agree. Sounds like maybe his E2 was off or maybe wasn’t adding preg or DHEA.

Adding topical DHEA did have some benefit. E2 is usually around 100. I had thought allot of guys did not get much, if anything, from TRT.

 

[Smont]

Of course, you are by far an exception.

I gotta disagree here. If your specifically suffering from problems that are directly caused by low testosterone then fixing the low testosterone will normally fix the problem. But if your just feeling low energy and whatever else and you don't have low testosterone, taking testosterone doesn't fix anything. I know quite a few ppl that went on trt because the internet made them think trt was a game charger regardless of weather or not its needed and they were very disappointed (as i told them the will be.)

I personally did not need trt. I started it when I decided to hop back on gear at 34. Now I'm turning 38, but I did it because of me not liking the hormonal roller coaster of pct.

Still to this day I I'm on 100 test, 300 test or 600 test I feel exactly the same.

 

[sammpedd88]

Adding topical DHEA did have some benefit. E2 is usually around 100. I had thought allot of guys did not get much, if anything, from TRT.

If your E2 was at 100 and you were pinning 100 mgs a week and that amount of test was keeping you around mid range then that’s a problem. 100 is way too high. No wonder you didn’t feel good.

 

[Smont]

If your E2 was at 100 and you were pinning 100 mgs a week and that amount of test was keeping you around mid range then that’s a problem. 100 is way too high. No wonder you didn’t feel good.

On cycle when my estrogen is around 100 I feel great, high sex drive and strong in the gym.
With my testosterone in normal range I need estrogen in the high 30's. But I still don't feel bad with higher estrogen. Too many personal variables to assume what your saying.

 

[Smont]

And regardless of my total t being 900 or 3000
And estrogen being 35-100

The difference isint much for me when it comes to the way I feel

 

[Smont]

Unless missed the part where this person gave his bloodwork numbers, nothing any of us are saying is relevant to him if he doesn't know his numbers. And even then we're all playing a guessing game because of how different everyone reacts to these things.

The only isolated example I can think of is a person with clinically low testosterone who actually needs to testosterone replacement therapy and in that scenario it is very likely testosterone at a trt dose will fix the issue.

 

[kisaj]

Smont, everything you are saying is just your personal experience. The vast majority of people that are on TRT see benefits for recovery, muscle mass, mood, energy, etc… As well as the negatives with having estrogen levels at 100+. This isn’t normal nor something to not count as a huge variable.

 

[Smont]

Smont, everything you are saying is just your personal experience. The vast majority of people that are on TRT see benefits for recovery, muscle mass, mood, energy, etc… As well as the negatives with having estrogen levels at 100+. This isn’t normal nor something to not count as a huge variable.

It is not my personal experience. It's the experience of many people. I don't even think you understand wahat im saying And you keep missing my point on someone needing trt vs. Wanting trt. If you had a testosterone level of 800 and you go on trt your not going to get any benefits of replacing your 700-900 levels with trt that's just going to give you 700-900 levels.

My personal experience is part of it, It's also thousands of other people's personal experience. You can talk to a endo about what I just said and he'd very likely agree from my experience talking with them.

Taking trt when you don't have low testosterone does not provide the same benefits as someone who actually needs trt. It's apples to oranges

 

[Smont]

Also many, many, many men find higher estrogen on cycle improves all the things I said. You can talk to hundreds if not thousands of ppl who enjoy higher estrogen on cycle vs. When there on trt.

 

[Smont]

Smont, everything you are saying is just your personal experience. The vast majority of people that are on TRT see benefits for recovery, muscle mass, mood, energy, etc… As well as the negatives with having estrogen levels at 100+. This isn’t normal nor something to not count as a huge variable.

Just so I know where on the same page here, can you acknowledge weather or not you understand I'm talking about ppl who need trt vs. Ppl taking it when there symptoms or not directly caused from low t. And with estrogen I'm talking about being on a cycle with testosterone well above the natural range vs. A trt dose with normal estrogen levels.

I feel like your picking out small pieces of whatvim saying and missing all the context behind it.

We can't keep talking about what testosterone will do for this person if we don't even know that they need testosterone

 

[sammpedd88]

On cycle when my estrogen is around 100 I feel great, high sex drive and strong in the gym.
With my testosterone in normal range I need estrogen in the high 30's. But I still don't feel bad with higher estrogen. Too many personal variables to assume what your saying.

Have you had your E2 in the 100’s with 100 mgs of test? My prescribed TRT dose is 100 mgs and it keeps me in the low 700’s in my trough. My e2 got to the mid 50’s one time and I felt awful. Do get me wrong I’m it doubting what you’re saying about other variables and plus we all know hormones are very individual but an E2 level of 100 more than likely was his problem given his test levels were 750-800. He said in his post with 100 mgs of test his levels were 750-800.

 

[sammpedd88]

Just so I know where on the same page here, can you acknowledge weather or not you understand I'm talking about ppl who need trt vs. Ppl taking it when there symptoms or not directly caused from low t. And with estrogen I'm talking about being on a cycle with testosterone well above the natural range vs. A trt dose with normal estrogen levels.

I feel like your picking out small pieces of whatvim saying and missing all the context behind it.

We can't keep talking about what testosterone will do for this person if we don't even know that they need testosterone

I think we’re talking about two different people that have posted in this thread lol! I’m not referring to the OP. I’m referring to botk1161’s post about TRT not helping him feel better.

 

[Smont]

Have you had your E2 in the 100’s with 100 mgs of test? My prescribed TRT dose is 100 mgs and it keeps me in the low 700’s in my trough. My e2 got to the mid 50’s one time and I felt awful. Do get me wrong I’m it doubting what you’re saying about other variables and plus we all know hormones are very individual but an E2 level of 100 more than likely was his problem given his test levels were 500-700.

Yes I have, well, on 150 test but it was after a cycle so estrogen was still elevated. But that was just a small part of the point I'm trying to make In this thread. No1 Is seemingly able to grasp the actual points here.

We don't know if op has low testosterone or if his symptoms are caused by low testosterone.

If he doesn't have low testosterone or his symptoms are not being caused by his testosterone levels Then going on TRT is not going to be the magic fix like it might be for someone with low testosterone levels and that is the only point I am trying for people to take home here and no one is seemingly able to grab ahold of that.

I have no issues with anyone here, I understand what everyone is saying And none of you are wrong, But what you guys are saying does not particularly pertain to the take away im tryingto get across, If everyone has an understood the point I'm making about needing versus wanting then there not gonna get the point so i don't wish to be part of this conversation so I'm exiting the thread.

 

[Smont]

I think we’re talking about two different people that have posted in this thread lol! I’m not referring to the OP. I’m referring to botk1161’s post about TRT not helping him feel better.

In that scenario If his estrogen was high on a 100 mg it would be very high on 500 mg, but he felt good on 500 mg..... do you get what I'm saying. It's not necessarily astrogen related.

I really don't wish to continue this thread anymore so I'm not responding after this. But yes we're not completely talking about the same things and that's where the huge misunderstanding is.

 

[sammpedd88]

In that scenario If his estrogen was high on a 100 mg it would be very high on 500 mg, but he felt good on 500 mg..... do you get what I'm saying. It's not necessarily astrogen related.

I really don't wish to continue this thread anymore so I'm not responding after this. But yes we're not completely talking about the same things and that's where the huge misunderstanding is.

I get what you’re saying now about him bumping his test and feeling better. I missed that.
And no worries man. No hard feelings at all Smont. You’re full of knowledge and a top contributor on this forum.

 

[botk1161]

If your E2 was at 100 and you were pinning 100 mgs a week and that amount of test was keeping you around mid range then that’s a problem. 100 is way too high. No wonder you didn’t feel good.

Seriously, 100 is not way too high.
Lower than that and I feel like crap. I have spent quite a bit of time, experimentation and effort dialing in what works for me. My esto goes up to 230 on cycle and I get zero estrogen side effects and feel like a God. It’s amazing how different we can be when it comes to hormone optimization.
Thanks for your perspective.

 

[Musdog]

Ya this is my point, we need labs or something. Just taking testosterone won't improve the things you mentioned unless low testosterone is the cause of the problems. You're not really giving anyone enough information to accurately help you

I gotta disagree here. If your specifically suffering from problems that are directly caused by low testosterone then fixing the low testosterone will normally fix the problem. But if your just feeling low energy and whatever else and you don't have low testosterone, taking testosterone doesn't fix anything. I know quite a few ppl that went on trt because the internet made them think trt was a game charger regardless of weather or not its needed and they were very disappointed (as i told them the will be.)

I personally did not need trt. I started it when I decided to hop back on gear at 34. Now I'm turning 38, but I did it because of me not liking the hormonal roller coaster of pct.

Still to this day I I'm on 100 test, 300 test or 600 test I feel exactly the same.

It is not my personal experience. It's the experience of many people. I don't even think you understand wahat im saying And you keep missing my point on someone needing trt vs. Wanting trt. If you had a testosterone level of 800 and you go on trt your not going to get any benefits of replacing your 700-900 levels with trt that's just going to give you 700-900 levels.

My personal experience is part of it, It's also thousands of other people's personal experience. You can talk to a endo about what I just said and he'd very likely agree from my experience talking with them.

Taking trt when you don't have low testosterone does not provide the same benefits as someone who actually needs trt. It's apples to oranges

Hopefully you reply to my post or send me a message direct because I was not trying to be vague, just trying to learn. In the future I will provide detailed information as I can see how that will help with a response.

To make it short, no I am not out of range and there are no reasons for me to get on TRT based on my labs and what the doctor told me. I took a whole panel and the ones below are the ones I figured would be of most interest (copy and paste did not work so well but you get the point).

Component	Your Value	Standard Range
Testosterone Free by Equilibrium Dialysis/LC-MS/MS	55.3 pg/mL	47.0 - 244.0 pg/mL

Testosterone Total by LC-MS/MS

551.1 ng/dL

300.0 - 1080.0 ng/dL

Testosterone

566.8 ng/dL

240.0 - 870.0 ng/dL

So if the answer is "you will receive no benefit on TRT" then that is the accepted truth. Maybe I should focus on better sleep and less stress to help with all the issues and accept my genetics for what they are.

Again just looking for advice from knowledgeable individuals to prevent me from wasting time and money on something that will not help and get educated in the process.

I do appreciate everyone's comments and advice on this subject and others on this site, it has been helpful over the years.

 

[Smont]

Hopefully you reply to my post or send me a message direct because I was not trying to be vague, just trying to learn. In the future I will provide detailed information as I can see how that will help with a response.

To make it short, no I am not out of range and there are no reasons for me to get on TRT based on my labs and what the doctor told me. I took a whole panel and the ones below are the ones I figured would be of most interest (copy and paste did not work so well but you get the point).

Component	Your Value	Standard Range
Testosterone Free by Equilibrium Dialysis/LC-MS/MS	55.3 pg/mL	47.0 - 244.0 pg/mL

Testosterone Total by LC-MS/MS

551.1 ng/dL

300.0 - 1080.0 ng/dL

Testosterone

566.8 ng/dL

240.0 - 870.0 ng/dL

So if the answer is "you will receive no benefit on TRT" then that is the accepted truth. Maybe I should focus on better sleep and less stress to help with all the issues and accept my genetics for what they are.

Again just looking for advice from knowledgeable individuals to prevent me from wasting time and money on something that will not help and get educated in the process.

I do appreciate everyone's comments and advice on this subject and others on this site, it has been helpful over the years.

Without getting into details, you could probably benift from trt a little because it's going to raise that free testosterone number, estrogen would be helpful to know. Low and high estrogen both have similar side effects Depending on the person.

Before jumping on trt I would use otc routes to raise your free testosterone.

566 is not a terrible number and probably not causing problems, free t might be the issue.

I don't know what your current diet and exercise look like, but eating a clean fitness minded diet, intense exercise and supplementing with boron and a few other things could make a massive difference.

If you do decide to go the trt route your gonna have to self administer or find a shady trt clinic cus a regular Dr. Or endo isint going to treat those numbers.

 

[Musdog]

Without getting into details, you could probably benift from trt a little because it's going to raise that free testosterone number, estrogen would be helpful to know. Low and high estrogen both have similar side effects Depending on the person.

Before jumping on trt I would use otc routes to raise your free testosterone.

566 is not a terrible number and probably not causing problems, free t might be the issue.

I don't know what your current diet and exercise look like, but eating a clean fitness minded diet, intense exercise and supplementing with boron and a few other things could make a massive difference.

If you do decide to go the trt route your gonna have to self administer or find a shady trt clinic cus a regular Dr. Or endo isint going to treat those numbers.

Thanks for responding.

Diet and exercise is on par, never heard of boron but quick search will cause me to read more about it. Shady TRT clinic is where I am left because endo and test clinic told me no.

Again some things for me to consider like how to raise my free testosterone. However, truly appreciate your help and advice.

 

[Dustin07]

I am turning 40 this year and was thinking of starting TRT. I have done some research into the subject and there is a lot to digest depending on what resources you trust. My biggest question is if a doctor will prescribe TRT if I am within “normal” range?

Any advice would be helpful.

And it is possible I don't need TRT but looking to decrease fatigue, improve recovery, and build muscle. I understand good sleep, diet, routine, and everything else but just don't feel the same as I used to.

Do you have a log here or more info about what a normal 7 day week looks like you in terms of food, sleep, work / family stress, and lifting? (how much lifting, what goals you have, how frequently, how trashed is your CNS, are you eating to support it, etc)?

Since it looked like you guys have found with your numbers that TRT probably isn't the knee jerk go to, and smont did recommend some OTC solutions I think knowing more about lifestyle this opens the doors big time for you.

In my experience natty wise, what's good for the goose is good for the gander; meaning fixing fatigue, recovery, and libido are often tied together for otc supplementation. sometimes as simple as maca, horny goat weed, tongkat ali, etc.

to be honest I found slamming 4 of these an hour before the gym had an effect on all three including aggression on the barbell and it's a cheap otc supp.

This one also I felt had a huge effect on me and the main ingredient here is the ashwagandha (from a libido stand point) IMO.

on top of those things, eating more carbs, getting more sleep, and lifting 4 days a week with 2 on 1 off vs 5-6 days a week all had huge positive effects on me. I'm also 40 and not on trt or any thing else for the most part.

 

[Musdog]

Do you have a log here or more info about what a normal 7 day week looks like you in terms of food, sleep, work / family stress, and lifting? (how much lifting, what goals you have, how frequently, how trashed is your CNS, are you eating to support it, etc)?

Since it looked like you guys have found with your numbers that TRT probably isn't the knee jerk go to, and smont did recommend some OTC solutions I think knowing more about lifestyle this opens the doors big time for you.

In my experience natty wise, what's good for the goose is good for the gander; meaning fixing fatigue, recovery, and libido are often tied together for otc supplementation. sometimes as simple as maca, horny goat weed, tongkat ali, etc.

to be honest I found slamming 4 of these an hour before the gym had an effect on all three including aggression on the barbell and it's a cheap otc supp.

This one also I felt had a huge effect on me and the main ingredient here is the ashwagandha (from a libido stand point) IMO.

on top of those things, eating more carbs, getting more sleep, and lifting 4 days a week with 2 on 1 off vs 5-6 days a week all had huge positive effects on me. I'm also 40 and not on trt or any thing else for the most part.

An update to all and an answer to your post. I did find a company that was going to put me on TRT at .3ml twice a week. However, after taking into account all the information I am going to go with otc test boosters. Maybe down the road TRT will be a better fit for me.

Sleep is the big issue and I could use an extra 4 hours in the day but I will have to continue to make sleep a priority.

Again thanks for all who provided their advice it was very helpful like always.

 

[Dustin07]

An update to all and an answer to your post. I did find a company that was going to put me on TRT at .3ml twice a week. However, after taking into account all the information I am going to go with otc test boosters. Maybe down the road TRT will be a better fit for me.

Sleep is the big issue and I could use an extra 4 hours in the day but I will have to continue to make sleep a priority.

Again thanks for all who provided their advice it was very helpful like always.

a lot of the guys here on the boards are already elite before PEDs. there are a lot of things we can do in just lifestyle changes, and dietary, that have a massively positive effect on our hormones before going to PEDs. sleep is HUGE. You really have to make sleep a priority. I feel like lack of sleep is almost a pandemic in society right now. that + shitty diets are causing massive decrease in T among natural folks (that and no lifting, no competitive outlets etc). good luck bro