TRT or not to TRT, that is the question my doc is asking ME

Toff

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So, had my final evaluation today, theyre are happy to give me TRT as im below normal, in range but low. They want to give me the chance to mull it over, do i want higher T (YES!) but do i want to deal with a chemical in my body for the rest of my life, do i want the hassle, do i want high red blood cell count, if not decide if you want to bother.

My bloodwork:
Vitamin D 37nmol/l, got a vit D prescription
9am test is 9.4 nmol/l,
SHBG 28.4 nmol/l
Albumin 49g/l
Plasma free test 0.187nmol/l

Will losing a bit more weight (i lost 5 kg so far, im 5'11 at 90kg), help?
What else would you try first to get back that get up and go? Supplements?

Safe to say, i feel crappy all the time but maybe its something else? maybe its a crap sex life, maybe its lifestyle or stress... maybe its a mental issue. Either way, im tired all the time, flabby belly, no motivation. When they trialled me on testogel for 3 weeks i at first felt like a woman going through the change sweating a lot etc. but then i felt like the gym, felt like starting a business, felt more confident, but ont he flip i had high BP and worried about thick blood.

Just dont know what to do.
 
TheSuppGuy

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Maybe donate blood every 3 weeks? And go for it? Whats ur age?
 

BBiceps

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i Been on TRT but I’m off now and been off for the last 4 yrs, doing weekly injections gets old and if you like to travel it’s annoying to bring shots. I’m a confident guy from the beginning so for me it’s no change in motivation or confidence. The biggest change I felt or saw was the “look” I had, I was leaner and more full on TRT, that look I miss a lot! Lol, I’m debating to go back on just because of that, but I will try push it back as long as I can.

If you’re ready to deal with the shots and other inconveniences go ahead but if you’re not, I would suggest to take a little Clomid and change your lifestyle to the better.
 
Mathb33

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If you need it you wouldn’t even be asking. If you’re asking it’s because your life might not be so bad without trt. Before I decide to get on trt I had problems staying hard. If I stopped sex for a single second I would go soft. I used to be an animal in bed, last long etc. Lost all of that. My libido was gone. I didn’t want sex or any of that. I was tired even if I slept 10 hours. I wasn’t confident anymore, I was easily depressed. Holding fat very easily. ETC ETC ETC. TRT changed my life. It wasn’t even a question it was clear I wanted to be a man again.
 
Mathb33

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I’m not saying some days pinning doesn’t get old and ****. Sure... but the positive outweight the negative. If I die at 60 years old I will have loved my life. Rather have things go like that than live until 75 being a quarter of the man I’m supposed to be.
 
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Toff

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Understand, I guess I need to want it more, Im just SH*T cared of heart failure, clotting, etc.

If that wasnt a factor it would be a no brainer but if Im dead i wont have those problems anymore anyway

That and the NHS are crap at optimisation ,its a generic take it or not, end of. No AI, no suggestion of blood donating (they just take you off TRT), just feels a crappy solution
 
Smont

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Understand, I guess I need to want it more, Im just SH*T cared of heart failure, clotting, etc.

If that wasnt a factor it would be a no brainer but if Im dead i wont have those problems anymore anyway

That and the NHS are crap at optimisation ,its a generic take it or not, end of. No AI, no suggestion of blood donating (they just take you off TRT), just feels a crappy solution
I guarantee there's multiple things you already do in your everyday life that are more dangerous then taking testosterone.
 
TheSuppGuy

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I’m not saying some days pinning doesn’t get old and ****. Sure... but the positive outweight the negative. If I die at 60 years old I will have loved my life. Rather have things go like that than live until 75 being a quarter of the man I’m supposed to be.
Damn that is some powerful speaking
 
Matthersby

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I’m not saying some days pinning doesn’t get old and ****. Sure... but the positive outweight the negative. If I die at 60 years old I will have loved my life. Rather have things go like that than live until 75 being a quarter of the man I’m supposed to be.
This is pretty much it.
When you get to a certain point your family weighs your right to live vs your quality of life to make their decision.
I’d rather have quality and hope science helps me with the slight possibility of Cardiac complications down the road
 
Matthersby

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So, had my final evaluation today, theyre are happy to give me TRT as im below normal, in range but low. They want to give me the chance to mull it over, do i want higher T (YES!) but do i want to deal with a chemical in my body for the rest of my life, do i want the hassle, do i want high red blood cell count, if not decide if you want to bother.

My bloodwork:
Vitamin D 37nmol/l, got a vit D prescription
9am test is 9.4 nmol/l,
SHBG 28.4 nmol/l
Albumin 49g/l
Plasma free test 0.187nmol/l

Will losing a bit more weight (i lost 5 kg so far, im 5'11 at 90kg), help?
What else would you try first to get back that get up and go? Supplements?

Safe to say, i feel crappy all the time but maybe its something else? maybe its a crap sex life, maybe its lifestyle or stress... maybe its a mental issue. Either way, im tired all the time, flabby belly, no motivation. When they trialled me on testogel for 3 weeks i at first felt like a woman going through the change sweating a lot etc. but then i felt like the gym, felt like starting a business, felt more confident, but ont he flip i had high BP and worried about thick blood.

Just dont know what to do.
What’s your total test?
Better just to copy the whole hormone panel on here. This doesn’t tell me enough.
 
Mzakif

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In for more information however I suggest to tell him prosaic cons based on your experience some he can decide

I saw a video few days ago about trt And prostate cancer
 
Mzakif

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This is hard decision.
In for info however I suggest to tell him pros and cons based on your experience some he can decide

I saw a video few days ago about trt And prostate cancer.

Good luck
 

Toff

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total test is 9.8 nmol at 10:30am and 10.4nml/l at 8:30am

Im leaning more towards improving my energy levels, and making better lifestyle choices. Already im on a test booster and feel better, so maybe i need to ride the test boost and stimulants to make me feel better/more energy and the rest will follow.

Thanks to Animal Stak I boned the buggery out of her at the weekend HAHA, so it doesnt feel like im low on T at all atm, so maybe ill keep kidding myself
 
Matthersby

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total test is 9.8 nmol at 10:30am and 10.4nml/l at 8:30am

Im leaning more towards improving my energy levels, and making better lifestyle choices. Already im on a test booster and feel better, so maybe i need to ride the test boost and stimulants to make me feel better/more energy and the rest will follow.

Thanks to Animal Stak I boned the buggery out of her at the weekend HAHA, so it doesnt feel like im low on T at all atm, so maybe ill keep kidding myself
Total testosterone ranges for men ages 19-49 are 240-900 roughly.

If your total test is 9.8, you are in a bad spot.
 
Mathb33

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I thought he was trolling or something lol. I don’t see a person at 9.8 even getting out of his bed at all. And I don’t believe a second a little test booster would give anyone at 9.8 TT any kind of help sexually. If you were really that low you’d be a freaking walking zombie and your life would be miserable. Anyways if you’re really THAT low help yourself and do something better than a test booster before you end up with serious health problems
 
Matthersby

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I thought he was trolling or something lol. I don’t see a person at 9.8 even getting out of his bed at all. And I don’t believe a second a little test booster would give anyone at 9.8 TT any kind of help sexually. If you were really that low you’d be a freaking walking zombie and your life would be miserable. Anyways if you’re really THAT low help yourself and do something better than a test booster before you end up with serious health problems
I could be on methadone, an anti depressant, and 3 pints vodka a day and not get under 200. Think he’s looking at free or one of the others.
The only reason I post my numbers and not just screenshot my labs, is because I have experience with labs and healthcare.
Most just need to post their entire hormone panel so we know what we’re looking at and can help. Cause these numbers pulled out of thin air are suspect.
 
Carnivorecon

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Understand, I guess I need to want it more, Im just SH*T cared of heart failure, clotting, etc.

If that wasnt a factor it would be a no brainer but if Im dead i wont have those problems anymore anyway

That and the NHS are crap at optimisation ,its a generic take it or not, end of. No AI, no suggestion of blood donating (they just take you off TRT), just feels a crappy solution
I can't even believe that test can be illegal without a script. How can a government be able to tell someone there T should be some arbitrary amount before you can alter it. Not even free in our own bodies guys!
 
Matthersby

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I can't even believe that test can be illegal without a script. How can a government be able to tell someone there T should be some arbitrary amount before you can alter it. Not even free in our own bodies guys!
We are only free to grovel to doctors to get the drugs that make them wealthy.
If anything we take, takes money away from their pharmaceutical sales, they will ban it or schedule it.
The only reason we can get a script for test and take it legally, is probably because they allowed it and made sure whichever board of directors they are on, is selling test to the doctors that are receiving kickbacks for prescribing it at their facility.
 

BBiceps

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We are only free to grovel to doctors to get the drugs that make them wealthy.
If anything we take, takes money away from their pharmaceutical sales, they will ban it or schedule it.
The only reason we can get a script for test and take it legally, is probably because they allowed it and made sure whichever board of directors they are on, is selling test to the doctors that are receiving kickbacks for prescribing it at their facility.
Or, if it was legal ppl would abuse it even more than they already are. Don’t be silly, test from a pharmacy with a Dr’s supervision is better all around.
 
Mathb33

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Or, if it was legal ppl would abuse it even more than they already are. Don’t be silly, test from a pharmacy with a Dr’s supervision is better all around.
Ya. But his point is valid still. Weed is legal here, nobody but the governement can sell it though
 
Matthersby

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Or, if it was legal ppl would abuse it even more than they already are. Don’t be silly, test from a pharmacy with a Dr’s supervision is better all around.
Of course it is, that wasn’t my point at all.
And it is legal with a script yet people abuse it.
I’m not going to do anything differently whether my doc is giving me test or I’m buying homebrew, I just have to do the governments tapdance so they get their cut of my money.
 
Matthersby

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Ya. But his point is valid still. Weed is legal here, nobody but the governement can sell it though
I have no interest in what drugs are legal and what are illegal, it changes in no way my decision to use them or not to use them.
What’s annoying is the guise that government and Pharma are concerned with our safety.
Steroids (other than selling them) cause no crime, no physical addiction, and as far as I’m concerned less deaths than weed are directly linked to. The government only cares if we take them illegally since they aren’t the ones selling it to us.
 
Matthersby

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I swear I’m not even a Libertarian anymore, I’d rather just have anarchy at this point than the US sickening, controlling, murdering, overbearing, bottomless money pit of a government that I serve here.
We couldn’t even form a militia if we wanted to, they would drone strike the **** out of us until there’s none left to oppose. That’s not the government I want “looking out for me”this country has gone too far in the wrong direction with radical capitalism
 
Mathb33

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I have no interest in what drugs are legal and what are illegal, it changes in no way my decision to use them or not to use them.
What’s annoying is the guise that government and Pharma are concerned with our safety.
Steroids (other than selling them) cause no crime, no physical addiction, and as far as I’m concerned less deaths than weed are directly linked to. The government only cares if we take them illegally since they aren’t the ones selling it to us.
This lol. They dont give a **** who dies and who don’t. I mean look at alcohol. Over here in Quebec nobody but the governement (stores called SAQ) can sell it yet I think it’s one of the **** that ruins the most life and kills the most people but they’re perfectly fine with that.
 

sammpedd88

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Can you give some examples
I’ll chime in on this....do you eat a healthy diet? Do you drive a car? Do you mow your lawn? Do you have any medical conditions such as high BP, high cholesterol?

Taking testosterone correctly is not going to automatically give you heart problems, blood clots or whatever else the main stream doctors say. You’re at more risk for heart disease and osteoporosis without TRT.

I would try to do what you can to get your natural test levels up. If it doesn’t work go on TRT.
 
TheBigJS

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total test is 9.8 nmol at 10:30am and 10.4nml/l at 8:30am
Total testosterone ranges for men ages 19-49 are 240-900 roughly.

If your total test is 9.8, you are in a bad spot.j
I thought he was trolling or something lol. I don’t see a person at 9.8 even getting out of his bed at all.
Erm, 9.8 nmol = 282 ng/dl.
10.4 nmol = 300 ng/dl.

nmol are the units used here in the UK, ng/dl in the USA.

So he's low, but not that low.
Lucky to get an offer of "help" from the NHS however.
 
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thebigt

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Erm, 9.8 nmol = 282 ng/dl.
10.4 nmol = 300 ng/dl.

nmol are the units used here in the UK, ng/dl in the USA.

So he's low, but not that low.
Lucky to get an offer of "help" from the NHS however.
good job...best post in entire thread!!!
 
Mathb33

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Erm, 9.8 nmol = 282 ng/dl.
10.4 nmol = 300 ng/dl.

nmol are the units used here in the UK, ng/dl in the USA.

So he's low, but not that low.
Lucky to get an offer of "help" from the NHS however.
Thank you, makes more sense now
 
Outofbody

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I dove into the TRT game at 29yrs old and never looked back. My levels were somewhere around 310 (range was around 300-900). I tried to get my levels up naturally for about 2yrs prior after finding this forum, and it didn't work – nothing worked except test. The positives far outweigh the bad so if you're over 30, go for it.
 
Outofbody

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I saw a video few days ago about trt And prostate cancer.

Good luck
There are studies that show that high estrogen is more involved in prostate cancer than DHT/test. Unfortuntely, and I know people will ask, but I don't have them bookmarked. Just speaking from years of my own research in the beginning.
 
Outofbody

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If you decide to do TRT, don't accept scripts from clinics that want to prescribe 200mg/week or more. They just want your money, and less is more in terms of TRT. Extra high levels of test may sound like a good thing, but it will cause more issues (like high estrogen, ED, prostate issues, messed up lipids, anxiety from high estrogen, cardio vascular issues, etc) – these issues are exacerbated in the long run. Remember "the light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long..."
 
Smont

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Can you give some examples
Seeing how trt is not very dangerous at all then pretty much anything could be. For the average person I would say if your a smoker, 20lbs or more overweight, eat the typical American diet, over indulge in alcohol as well as many other things are more dangerous then being on trt
 
thebigt

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Seeing how trt is not very dangerous at all then pretty much anything could be. For the average person I would say if your a smoker, 20lbs or more overweight, eat the typical American diet, over indulge in alcohol as well as many other things are more dangerous then being on trt
lol...how about if you check all the above and then go on trt?
 

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If you decide to do TRT, don't accept scripts from clinics that want to prescribe 200mg/week or more. They just want your money, and less is more in terms of TRT. Extra high levels of test may sound like a good thing, but it will cause more issues (like high estrogen, ED, prostate issues, messed up lipids, anxiety from high estrogen, cardio vascular issues, etc) – these issues are exacerbated in the long run. Remember "the light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long..."
Doesn’t it depends on you levels? I mean, can you really say that 200mg is too much without knowing where the persons ng/dl is at?
 
thebigt

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Doesn’t it depends on you levels? I mean, can you really say that 200mg is too much without knowing where the persons ng/dl is at?
I think what he is saying is that trt is a lifelong thing.....years and years of high dose could cause more potential risks than a lighter dose taken over the course of many years.

I've been on trt 10+years and currently dose 100mg weekly and have never had a prescribed AI or hcg. at a higher dose [200mg weekly] I developed polycythemia, with current dose all is well.
 

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I think what he is saying is that trt is a lifelong thing.....years and years of high dose could cause more potential risks than a lighter dose taken over the course of many years.

I've been on trt 10+years and currently dose 100mg weekly and have never had a prescribed AI or hcg. at a higher dose [200mg weekly] I developed polycythemia, with current dose all is well.
The reason I ask is because I’m at 900 on 200mg Cyp a week, I took 1mg anastrozole on injection day. My bloods was always good besides a little high cholesterol during those 3 years I was on.

I’m not talking anything now but when I do this might be my protocol again, so that’s why I asked if the amount is the problem.
 
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Outofbody

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Doesn’t it depends on you levels? I mean, can you really say that 200mg is too much without knowing where the persons ng/dl is at?
The odd person will need a higher than normal dosage of test, if they are a hyper-excretor, but this is not the norm. Sorry, I should've clarified! If your levels are in range then no worries in the long run.

I like to keep my levels around 7-800, I find I have less E2 issues there, no issues with hematocrit, and the best sexual function, which is the most important thing to me. I only need about 120mg test per week to be in that range.
 

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The odd person will need a higher than normal dosage of test, if they are a hyper-excretor, but this is not the norm. Sorry, I should've clarified! If your levels are in range then no worries in the long run.

I like to keep my levels around 7-800, I find I have less E2 issues there, no issues with hematocrit, and the best sexual function, which is the most important thing to me. I only need about 120mg test per week to be in that range.
Ok, great, that makes more sense. Yeah I started at 120mg but that only put me in mid/high 500’s, 180mg got me to somewhere where you’re at. Is a AI bad long term? I’m not sure if we did blood work without one...
 
MrKleen73

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Understand, I guess I need to want it more, Im just SH*T cared of heart failure, clotting, etc.

If that wasnt a factor it would be a no brainer but if Im dead i wont have those problems anymore anyway

That and the NHS are crap at optimisation ,its a generic take it or not, end of. No AI, no suggestion of blood donating (they just take you off TRT), just feels a crappy solution
Not being dismissive here, but have you looked at the plethora health issues that stem from low testosterone, lipids / cholesterol and the like is no good for them either... TRT done correctly is beneficial to your health. Much of what is passed off for TRT especially at TRT clinics is basically mini cycles or a constant cruise dose and not a legit TRT dose.

You may or may not end up with high RBC from TRT not everyone gets it. Those who do are often on the high end of HCT whether on TRT or not. In the end from what we know the reward outweighs the risk for most people. Kind of a toss up of potential medical sides and benefits. However the QUALITY OF LIFE IS VASTLY IMPROVED WITH TRT if you actually need it.
 
thebigt

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Not being dismissive here, but have you looked at the plethora health issues that stem from low testosterone, lipids / cholesterol and the like is no good for them either... TRT done correctly is beneficial to your health. Much of what is passed off for TRT especially at TRT clinics is basically mini cycles or a constant cruise dose and not a legit TRT dose.

You may or may not end up with high RBC from TRT not everyone gets it. Those who do are often on the high end of HCT whether on TRT or not. In the end from what we know the reward outweighs the risk for most people. Kind of a toss up of potential medical sides and benefits. However the QUALITY OF LIFE IS VASTLY IMPROVED WITH TRT if you actually need it.
I agree with this, but I have to add that the correct approach is what is best long term rather than immediate. it is human nature to want as much of a good thing as possible, but too much of any thing has consequences.

I enjoyed being on 200mg weekly of test cyp, but have come to recognize that the lower 100mg weekly is better in the long run.
 

sammpedd88

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The reason I ask is because I’m at 900 on 200mg Cyp a week, I took 1mg anastrozole on injection day. My bloods was always good besides a little high cholesterol during those 3 years I was on.

I’m not talking anything now but when I do this might be my protocol again, so that’s why I asked if the amount is the problem.
You took 1mg of anastrozole? That would crush my E2 big time.
 

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You took 1mg of anastrozole? That would crush my E2 big time.
I think so, it was a few years ago, my estro was in the 20’s if I remember correctly. But to be honest the biggest differences from now (clean) is that my metabolism was on point, I was just solid no matter what I ate (I miss that badly) and my sex drive was out of control (I do not miss that at all).
 
MrKleen73

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I agree with this, but I have to add that the correct approach is what is best long term rather than immediate. it is human nature to want as much of a good thing as possible, but too much of any thing has consequences.

I enjoyed being on 200mg weekly of test cyp, but have come to recognize that the lower 100mg weekly is better in the long run.
Exactly, my script says 150/wk but I take 60mg twice a week. I feel better this way, have less issues with prostate, BP stays lower and never have to worry about estrogen sides. I used to do 200 a week also. Not saying there won't be periods when I bump things back up a little temporarily but for everyday health and comfort getting in just enough is better than getting a little extra.
 
Outofbody

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Ok, great, that makes more sense. Yeah I started at 120mg but that only put me in mid/high 500’s, 180mg got me to somewhere where you’re at. Is a AI bad long term? I’m not sure if we did blood work without one...
I switched to aromasin (exemestane) for an AI. It has positive effects on IGF-1 and does not impact lipids the way other AI’s do. It’s highly superior in the long run. Once I got very lean though, I no longer needed an AI with TRT. But I definitely recommend aromasin, not arimidex.
 
Outofbody

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Exactly, my script says 150/wk but I take 60mg twice a week. I feel better this way, have less issues with prostate, BP stays lower and never have to worry about estrogen sides. I used to do 200 a week also. Not saying there won't be periods when I bump things back up a little temporarily but for everyday health and comfort getting in just enough is better than getting a little extra.
That’s what I do. 60mg twice a week. When I’m not cruising on other stuff.
 

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