TRS

lemonade

New member
so i bought PPs Testosterone recovery stack in preparation for a tren cycle however i may have wussed out :( ha. on the site it says it can be ran as a standalone. since ive already purchased the TRS im wondering what would i expect from it if all i took was the TRS?
 
lemonade said:
so i bought PPs Testosterone recovery stack in preparation for a tren cycle however i may have wussed out :( ha. on the site it says it can be ran as a standalone. since ive already purchased the TRS im wondering what would i expect from it if all i took was the TRS?
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You can send it to me and i'll log it for you. :head:
 
lol thats ok. IM either going to man up and run the tren cycle and use as PCT or just take the TRS as a standalone
 
lemonade said:
lol thats ok. IM either going to man up and run the tren cycle and use as PCT or just take the TRS as a standalone
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I'd recommend passing on the tren. If you are even in doubt as to if you should do it, then you are not ready for it. A cycle can be physically as well as mentally taxing. Save it and take it at a time when you feel 100% confidence and don't have to convince yourself to do it.

P.S. You could also consider a milder PH cycle?
 
HereToStudy said:
I'd recommend passing on the tren. If you are even in doubt as to if you should do it, then you are not ready for it. A cycle can be physically as well as mentally taxing. Save it and take it at a time when you feel 100% confidence and don't have to convince yourself to do it.

P.S. You could also consider a milder PH cycle?
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you make a very good point. i think im going to regret taking it but if i dont ill regret not taking it lol. but Hdrol has come up in discussion. its a weaker/milder PH i believe and probably a better choice for me considering it'd be my first cycle
 
yeah get some turinabol-lv and liver juice, people are having some nice results with it! you could have also bought everything in one stack from PP.
 
HereToStudy said:
From what I heard, Hdrol is a great first cycle.
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yea im definetly more comfortable using Hdrol at this point. thanks. does it require the type of things tren would or no? on hand right now i have the TRS, Milk thistle and was going to get saw palmetto extract (prostate aid)
 
lemonade said:
yea im definetly more comfortable using Hdrol at this point. thanks. does it require the type of things tren would or no? on hand right now i have the TRS, Milk thistle and was going to get saw palmetto extract (prostate aid)
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It's not as harsh as the Tren would have been, but still requires all the supports and PCT.
 
try it alone its pretty solid for strength, libido boost and cortisol blocking so you'll most likely enjoy it. i saw the most natty gains when i added Phyto-test tho, but any solid test booster like testopro would work as well
 
JN230 said:
try it alone its pretty solid for strength, libido and cort blocking so youll most likely enjoy it. i saw the most natty gains when i added Phyto-test tho, but any solid test booster like testopro would work as well
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it does work great alone ^^^ like JN230 said above aswell as for pct. i think it would be great for your pct but if your not comfortable then i would do what heretostudy said and use hdrol or another mild one. after all your safety and comfort is whats important and only you can make that call.
 
lemonade said:
define "great results" please. what occured that made you so pleased
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Let me try. (Great results for Halodrol clones, Turinabol LV being the best IMO):

Gain 5+ lbs of LBM (though some report as high as 10; depends on diet and dose and lots of other factors)

Lose a few lbs of BF at the same time (again, diet and other factor dependent)

Easy to maintain gains (unlike tren); easy PCT (unlike tren); less sides than tren.

Excellent strength increases; one logger on here set several PRs (personal records) on a cycle of Turinabol LV and Furaguno.

Try running the Turinabol LV from Primordial at a moderate dose (it is d@mn potent), stack with Liver Juice LV front loaded 2 weeks and run for duration of cycle and maybe 2 weeks into PCT as well (you need serious liver protection with 17aa's like Turinabol LV), and the TRS for PCT. Also consider using a product like CEL's Cycle Assist front-loaded two weeks and ran for the duration of your cycle to provide some BP, heart health, cholesterol, etc support.

I highly doubt you will be disappointed.

Save the tren for a future cycle when you have learned the ropes a bit better-it's a powerful compound with powerful side effects. Turinabol LV is no joke either, but it is a much more pleasant substance to run.

Like a wise person on this thread mentioned, if you have any doubts about the tren, then you should def. not run it. Tren cycles especially but all cycles in general are indeed mentally and physically taxing.

Good luck, and I hope that answers some of your questions.

Also, it is always wise to get bloodwork done before and after your cycles; the more often the merrier, though some never do it. I don't recommend never getting bloodwork done if you care about your health.
 
Thanks for the help and info you guys, its definetly much appreciated!

also, when I had in mind was Hdrol by competitive edge labs. ill have to find out a little more about turinabol LV before i make a decision on it. however so far PP has been great to me in terms of shipping and service so Turinabol LV is def on my list!

@ Johnnynutz - i never did get around to purchasing the tren
 
I just bought the turinabol lv...
I am having bloodwork done next week prior to starting the liver juice.
Then I will start with 1ml/1ml/2ml/2ml/?/?
Then PCT....
My plan is to test the water...
I have already tried Halodrol for 5 days and stopped cause I didn't know what the he'll I was doing.
It was working very quickly!!!
Awesome stuff....
The turinabol lv is supposed to be 2x as strong so I am gonna take it easy...
 
Cubate said:
The turinabol lv is supposed to be 2x as strong so I am gonna take it easy...
Click to expand...

damn dude for real? So if Hdrol is a mild Ph and turinabol lv is 2x as strong, whats Turinabol lv classified as?

PS you should post a log for guys like me to relate too:)
 
Primordials LV is supposed to assist the delivery that much better... I have no clue as to howuch stronger it really is but having used Chlorodrol 50 mg for 4 days I felt beastly!!!
So this TLV is supposed to be maybe twice as powerful... That is why I am going to use it this way:
10/10/20/20/?/?
The last two weeks I might not use it all..
I am almost complete with my research in that I am reading on Clomid/ Nolva/ toremifene citrate of the three I am not sure which ones I should use if any.
Reps say the TRS stack is sufficient yet other members say to have a SERM handy. Ao I will err on the cautious side and have one handy.
I am also including;
Hawthorne Berry during preload
Liver Juice Preloaded
and the recommended PP plan ....
So I think I will have all angles covered...

Since I run and cycle quite a bit I will not be working out legs.
My workout will consist of the following:
Sunday: 3 mile run/Chest and Tri 16 sets total - heavy to light to exhaustion
Mon: off
Tuesday:
Tuesday: Rest
 
Primordials LV is supposed to assist the delivery that much better... I have no clue as to howuch stronger it really is but having used Chlorodrol 50 mg for 4 days I felt beastly!!!
So this TLV is supposed to be maybe twice as powerful... That is why I am going to use it this way:
10/10/20/20/?/?
The last two weeks I might not use it all..
I am almost complete with my research in that I am reading on Clomid/ Nolva/ toremifene citrate of the three I am not sure which ones I should use if any.
Reps say the TRS stack is sufficient yet other members say to have a SERM handy. Ao I will err on the cautious side and have one handy.
I am also including;
Hawthorne Berry during preload
Liver Juice Preloaded
and the recommended PP plan ....
So I think I will have all angles covered...

Since I run and cycle quite a bit I will not be working out legs.
My workout will consist of the following:
Sunday: 3 mile run/Chest and Tri 16 sets total - heavy to mid to light to exhaustion
Mon: off
Tuesday:3 Mile run/ Biceps 16 sets total- heavy weight to mid weight to light weight to exhaustion
Wednesday :: Rest
Thursday; 10 mile cycling medium to short duration sprints/ Shoulders 10-16 sets heavy weight to light weight 16 sets total to exhaustion
Friday: 10 Mile Cycle/ Biceps 16 sets heavy weight to light weight to exhaustion

I keep my cardio up during weighlidring as well...
I burn more fat this way and the heavier weight at the introduction of the workout helps me bulk.,,

calories: 2000 to 2500

what do you all think?
 
lemonade said:
damn dude for real? So if Hdrol is a mild Ph and turinabol lv is 2x as strong, whats Turinabol lv classified as?

PS you should post a log for guys like me to relate too:)
Click to expand...

The LV gives the Turinabol/Halodrol a higher rate of absorption in the body, so the same dose of Turinabol LV (mg-wise) versus caps like H-Drol is going to have a more potent effect. The logs on Turinabol seem to reflect this increased potency.

So start on the low end of dosing with the Turinabol LV and give it a good 3 weeks before you consider bumping it up to the moderate dose level (if you even feel the need to) for the final 3 weeks of you cycle. I've found that Halodrol clones tend to really shine starting in week 3 and all the way through the end of the cycle in week 6. By week 3, you should have a good sense of how the low end dose of Turinabol LV is working for you, and you should be seeing some visually noticeable results by then. If you aren't satisfied with the low dose results, and you aren't having any significant side effects (other than what is to be expected like maybe a little acne and alpha male mentality), then kick the dose up to the moderate level to finish your cycle out (based on the ranges on the side of the bottle). You definitely should not need the high end doses of Turinabol LV for a first cycle-it will be too much for you IMO. The stuff is arguable the most potent Halodrol clone available now.

H-Drol is sometimes called a mild PH because it doesn't molest your liver function tests like stronger methylated compounds can easily do (superdrol, pheraplex, etc). But it can affect your liver function, so that it why it is important to get some bloodwork to see how your liver is doing before and after using. It is also mild in terms of side effects and HPTA suppression. In contrast, tren and superdrol and pheraplex are horrendous on your blood pressure, cause lethargy, more aggression, etc. Tren, sdrol, and sometimes phera all can cause severe HPTA shutdown and result in a very long and painful PCT (been there, done that). H-Drol/Turinabol LV PCT will be a walk in the park by comparison (still very important to do PCT right, but for instance, it won't take a month before you can get an erection again like with tren, LOL). In fact, most people seem to get a boost in libido from H-Drol and Turinabol LV. The sum total of these qualities make this the typical #1 candidate for first cycles. And some people like it so much that they make it their 2nd and 3rd cycles and don't even bother going to the harsher stuff.

To be clear, all this "mild" talk is in the relative sense. Make no mistake; Halodrol is basically as much a steroid itself as it is a PH. But Turinabol LV is still Halodrol; the difference is that the LV matrix increases its absorption relative to capsules and pills significantly, so you don't have to use nearly as much to get the same or even better results than previous clones like H-Drol.

If you take the appropriate safeguards and tips previously mentioned on this thread, I think you will be quite impressed with the Turinabol LV while minimizing any effects it may have on your health. As with all steroids, it can have some negative health effects/sides, but assuming you take enough time off between cycles, these sides are usually temporary and abnormal lipid and liver values will return to normal in your off cycle time (always verify this via bloodwork before doing another cycle though).

So back to square one; this would be an excellent choice for a first PH/DS cycle. Just do your homework, get your support supplements and diet and training plan in order, and don't be afraid to ask questions:).
 
Cubate said:
Primordials LV is supposed to assist the delivery that much better... I have no clue as to howuch stronger it really is but having used Chlorodrol 50 mg for 4 days I felt beastly!!!
So this TLV is supposed to be maybe twice as powerful... That is why I am going to use it this way:
10/10/20/20/?/?
The last two weeks I might not use it all..
I am almost complete with my research in that I am reading on Clomid/ Nolva/ toremifene citrate of the three I am not sure which ones I should use if any.
Reps say the TRS stack is sufficient yet other members say to have a SERM handy. Ao I will err on the cautious side and have one handy.
I am also including;
Hawthorne Berry during preload
Liver Juice Preloaded
and the recommended PP plan ....
So I think I will have all angles covered...

Since I run and cycle quite a bit I will not be working out legs.
My workout will consist of the following:
Sunday: 3 mile run/Chest and Tri 16 sets total - heavy to mid to light to exhaustion
Mon: off
Tuesday:3 Mile run/ Biceps 16 sets total- heavy weight to mid weight to light weight to exhaustion
Wednesday :: Rest
Thursday; 10 mile cycling medium to short duration sprints/ Shoulders 10-16 sets heavy weight to light weight 16 sets total to exhaustion
Friday: 10 Mile Cycle/ Biceps 16 sets heavy weight to light weight to exhaustion

I keep my cardio up during weighlidring as well...
I burn more fat this way and the heavier weight at the introduction of the workout helps me bulk.,,

calories: 2000 to 2500

What do you all think?
Click to expand...

What are you goals for the cycle mate? Sounds like a shed-load of cardio you're doing, and if it's bulking you're up for you might struggle to gain much muscle on 2500kcal and I'm a very lean bulker myself.

In terms of PCT, whilst I do believe having a SERM on-hand is a good idea if you're new or have few cycles under your belt, the Invalid Link Removed is more than enough for most users on Invalid Link Removed, especially if Invalid Link Removed is run on-cycle as well (2 days on 5 off fashion).

If you have anymore questions mate, feel free to PM me for help on your cycle.
 
Cubate said:
Primordials LV is supposed to assist the delivery that much better... I have no clue as to howuch stronger it really is but having used Chlorodrol 50 mg for 4 days I felt beastly!!!
So this TLV is supposed to be maybe twice as powerful... That is why I am going to use it this way:
10/10/20/20/?/?
The last two weeks I might not use it all..
I am almost complete with my research in that I am reading on Clomid/ Nolva/ toremifene citrate of the three I am not sure which ones I should use if any.
Reps say the TRS stack is sufficient yet other members say to have a SERM handy. Ao I will err on the cautious side and have one handy.
I am also including;
Hawthorne Berry during preload
Liver Juice Preloaded
and the recommended PP plan ....
So I think I will have all angles covered...

Since I run and cycle quite a bit I will not be working out legs.
My workout will consist of the following:
Sunday: 3 mile run/Chest and Tri 16 sets total - heavy to mid to light to exhaustion
Mon: off
Tuesday:3 Mile run/ Biceps 16 sets total- heavy weight to mid weight to light weight to exhaustion
Wednesday :: Rest
Thursday; 10 mile cycling medium to short duration sprints/ Shoulders 10-16 sets heavy weight to light weight 16 sets total to exhaustion
Friday: 10 Mile Cycle/ Biceps 16 sets heavy weight to light weight to exhaustion

I keep my cardio up during weighlidring as well...
I burn more fat this way and the heavier weight at the introduction of the workout helps me bulk.,,

calories: 2000 to 2500

what do you all think?
Click to expand...

If you liked the results of 50mg a day of Chlorodrol/Halodrol, then I think 10-20mg twice a day (so 20-40 total) would be comporable or a little bit stronger. I do recommend that you take it in divided doses to keep plasma levels steady. If you were taking 50mg of Chlorodrol once a day, that might explain the "beastly" feeling. In cap/tab form, I never take more than 25mg in a single dose. It is better to split it into 2-3 doses evenly across the day. So if that is the case, I would try 20mg of Turinabol LV 12 hours apart each day (40mg total); if it is too much for you, then I would taper the dose down to suit you. 20mg twice a day is where I would start at with the LV. To be safe, you migh even want to do 10mg twice/day the first week, and if everything is OK, then step up to 20mg twice/day for the next 4-5 weeks. I highly recommend running Turinabol LV (and Halodrol compounds in general) for 5-6 weeks to get the full benefits and still keep side effects to a minimum.

The TRS alone should be enough, but PP recommends that you have a SERM on hand just in case recovery is not going as well as it should be, or in case you develop gyno symptoms on cycle (which is unlikely with Turinabol LV, but if it happens, a few days of a SERM would likely get rid of any symptoms). As for which SERM, toremifene citrate is the only SERM that I recommend in th event that you need something extra to help with your PCT. This is also PP's recommendation (torem = #1). SERMs do have sides though, so do your reading first (try Invalid Link Removed and search for toremifene). Given the low doses of Turinabol LV you are considering, I doubt a SERM will be necessary. But like PP suggests, have one handy just in case. It never hurts to be prepared.

About preloading hawthorne berry, BP effects shouldn't be dramatic with Turinabol LV. If you don't have an at home, high-quality BP monitor, go find a Wal-Mart or drug store with a BP monitor in it and check periodically (or at the doctor). It is possible to take too much hawthorne berry and drive your BP too low (hypotension). Also, if using something like this, you would want to preload it and take it for the duration of your cycle. But to be honest, I would recommend a more comprehensive on cycle support product like CEL's Cycle Assist and you would front load it and run it during your cycle. Between that, the LJ, the TRS, and having a SERM handy (and bloodwork), I would say you'd have most all your angles covered:).

As far as your calories on cycle, (A) what are your cycle goals (recomp, cutting, bulking, lean bulking)?, (B) what is your BMR (how much do you normally eat in a day to maintain your weight)?

Also, what are your macros going to be? Macros = grams of carbs, grams of fat, and grams of protein per day.

Sorry if you already know what macros and BMR and all that mean:). But I'd need to know this information along with your cycle goals in order to weigh in on your plans with a semi-intelligent opinion and any additional advice.
 
I am looking to lean bulk.
I used to weigh 188lbs and lost 8 lbs of fat and gained 1.5" on my biceps natty.
Now i'd like to maintain my 180-182 weight.
I eat 1500 calories a day.
170 grams protein
I want to up my protein.
But not my calories.
I am quite happy here.... If i eat any more i will gain fat stores which i don't want...
 
Correction

Better said. If i eat more of the wrong calories i will gain fat reserves that i dont want. I eat between 1500 and 2500 per day depending on how i feel. That is why you will see on one post 1500 and on another 2500. I eat according to my needs. Preworkout, post workout, before bed, on my off days it all depends which day.
Cubate said:
I am looking to lean bulk.
I used to weigh 188lbs and lost 8 lbs of fat and gained 1.5" on my biceps natty.
Now i'd like to maintain my 180-182 weight.
I eat 1500 calories a day.
170 grams protein
I want to up my protein.
But not my calories.
I am quite happy here.... If i eat any more i will gain fat stores which i don't want...
Click to expand...
 
In fact, most people seem to get a boost in libido from H-Drol and Turinabol LV. The sum total of these qualities make this the typical #1 candidate for first cycles. And some people like it so much that they make it their 2nd and 3rd cycles and don't even bother going to the harsher stuff.

Funny that you
mentioned the libido increase on hdrol because while on chlorodrol for a measley 5 days my libido was through the roof... And so was my Johnson...
 
Cubate said:
I am looking to lean bulk.
I used to weigh 188lbs and lost 8 lbs of fat and gained 1.5" on my biceps natty.
Now i'd like to maintain my 180-182 weight.
I eat 1500 calories a day.
170 grams protein
I want to up my protein.
But not my calories.
I am quite happy here.... If i eat any more i will gain fat stores which i don't want...
Click to expand...

I'm confused; you want to maintain your current weight but you also want to lean bulk? It sounds more like you want to recomp (lose some fat, gain some muscle, stay at a similar weight). Sound about right or am I missing something?
 
dumbhick3 said:
I'm confused; you want to maintain your current weight but you also want to lean bulk? It sounds more like you want to recomp (lose some fat, gain some muscle, stay at a similar weight). Sound about right or am I missing something?
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Yes... I am new to this so I chose the one that seemed right.
But yes I want to maintain my weight, gain muscle and lose fat.
 
dumbhick3 said:
So back to square one; this would be an excellent choice for a first PH/DS cycle. Just do your homework, get your support supplements and diet and training plan in order, and don't be afraid to ask questions:).
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Dumbhick3 you are legit! Thanks for all your help. I do have one more question though. What kind of things would occur or not occur during PCT for me to know its not going well? basically libido issues or is their more? Also, if signs of gyno occur when do i take the SERM? ive heard its not good to take a SERM while on cycle or maybe thats just nolva? so would i wait until my cycle is over and then take care of the gyno with the SERM?

Again, thanks for your help.
 
dumbhick3 said:
About preloading hawthorne berry, BP effects shouldn't be dramatic with Turinabol LV. If you don't have an at home, high-quality BP monitor, go find a Wal-Mart or drug store with a BP monitor in it and check periodically (or at the doctor). It is possible to take too much hawthorne berry and drive your BP too low (hypotension).
Click to expand...

whats your take on Fenugreek seeds for BP? someone wrote a very good log on Superdrol and they suggested Fenugreek seeds for BP
 
lemonade said:
Dumbhick3 you are legit! Thanks for all your help. I do have one more question though. What kind of things would occur or not occur during PCT for me to know its not going well? basically libido issues or is their more? Also, if signs of gyno occur when do i take the SERM? ive heard its not good to take a SERM while on cycle or maybe thats just nolva? so would i wait until my cycle is over and then take care of the gyno with the SERM?

Again, thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

You should read all the side effects of prohormones and steroids both during cycle and post cycle. Read through the posts here on AM and google everything you want to know about. Good luck...
 
Turinabol from PP should last you the full 6 weeks, and other brands might require you to buy more bottles. Try trading your Tren or just holding onto it untill your ready, even if its 2 years from now.
 
lemonade said:
whats your take on Fenugreek seeds for BP? someone wrote a very good log on Superdrol and they suggested Fenugreek seeds for BP
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I've never used or really read about using fenugreek seed for BP control. OTOH, funugreek extract (standardized for 50% fenusides, aka Testofen) is a great PCT addition as a natty test booster. My personal favorite is PP's Phyto-Testosterone . If you want to run this as part of your PCT, you could just run it alongside the TRS. I've done it before with very good results; in fact, after a tren cycle that shut me down severely.

As for BP control, the go-to supplements are Hawthorne Berry Extract (just don't overdo it, especially if you don't have a BP monitor available; you can lower your BP too low), Celery Seed Extract (acts as a diuretic), and 5-10g of taurine twice a day (also a diuretic effect). You need to take 3-5g of taurine a day any time that you run a methylated steroid to minimize back and calf cramps/pumps. Keep your fluid intake high and your sodium intake moderate (not too low, not too high).

I buy things like Hawthorne and Celery supps separately, but there are products such as CEL's Cycle Assist that contain a good dose of both among other beneficial ingredients and it would probably take some of the guesswork out of the equation for you.
 
lemonade said:
Dumbhick3 you are legit! Thanks for all your help. I do have one more question though. What kind of things would occur or not occur during PCT for me to know its not going well? basically libido issues or is their more? Also, if signs of gyno occur when do i take the SERM? ive heard its not good to take a SERM while on cycle or maybe thats just nolva? so would i wait until my cycle is over and then take care of the gyno with the SERM?

Again, thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

Without frequent hormonal bloodwork which isn't really feasible for most people, there is no 100% sure way to tell that you are shutdown to such and such an extent. Otherwise, it is somewhat subjective; you'll know after you run a cycle like tren (hint-save for later) that is very suppressive exactly what I mean.

Testicle size isn't an absolute indication of how well you are recovering or to what extent you are shut down (since they will only get so small), but testicle size should rebound pretty quickly during PCT. Strong steroids like superdrol will tend to give you raisin nuts on cycle quickly, so along with the other effects of sdrol (lethargy, libido problems, blah mood-symptoms of low test levels in many but not all cases), it will be pretty clear that you are shut down hard. Likewise, you would know during PCT how long it is taking (as you go) to regain your libido, energy level, mood, nut size, and whether your new body weight has stabilized yet.

Libido isn't a great guage as some steroids will directly increase or decrease it apart from suppression. If you are heavily suppressed, your libido will be too, but SERMs can suppress your libido at times even when you are well on the road to recovery (enter Phyto-Testosterone + the Sustain Alpha for libido maximization:)).

Lethargy well into PCT along with the above would be a potential concern for me as far as a possible slow recovery. Google the symptoms of testosterone deficiency to see what typical low test sides are. A depressed mood is sometimes indicative, but not always.

Also, if you are suppressed post-cycle for too long (PCT isn't strong enough, whatever), then you will probably start to lose some of your gains b/c your endogenous test is too low and cannot support that new muscle for long after stopping your steroid cycle (there are more factors than this to keeping your new post-cycle weight, such as keeping calories high during PCT). My weight usually stabilizes about 2 weeks into PCT which is a good, subjective sign of recovery for me.

The goal of PCT is to restore hormonal homeostasis and to start patching up any damage done to your liver and lipid profile-they will usually normalize with sufficient time off-just get some bloodwork done every now and then. Part of that restoration is bringing endogenous test and LH back to normal levels. Weight loss during PCT can happen anyway (even if you do everything right) with some compounds (Tren LV, Superdrone LV, etc-often b/c the magnitude of weight gain is too much too quickly for your body to hold on to, but also some water and glycogen weight may be lost when the steroid is stopped), but not so much with Turinabol LV.

You should definitely read a bit more about gyno, SERMs, and PCT. If you go the Anabolics forum here on AM, there is a sub-forum for PCT with a PCT sticky thread at the top. And on the Anabolics sub-forum (I think), there is a gyno sticky thread at the top. Those are good places to start.

Honestly, I think that the TRS will be enough for your Turinabol LV PCT. I would just plan to not use a SERM for this cycle's PCT. You should recover just fine. In the worst case, you will just have a more prolonged recovery period and need to take a bit longer off before your next cycle. You MAY lose some strength gains and weight, but I think this would be uncommon with Turinabol LV + the TRS. You can lose strength after pretty much any cycle anyway. You kind of have to get a feel for things yourself I guess in order to have a frame of reference for what is normal and what is abnormal. Read as much as you can to start creating that frame of ref and then combine with some experience.

LH is suppressed on cycle which in turn suppresses endo test production. During a successful PCT, LH becomes elevated (even above the normal range) which signals the testes to resume production of endogenous testosterone and will bring your test levels back up to the normal range and your body will eventually re-establish hormonal homeostasis. Having LH and total test checked via bloodwork 2 weeks into your PCT is the surest way IMO to ensure that you are recovering well from your cycle.

There is really no other way to say with 100% certainty that you are fully recovered hormonally from a cycle. That doesn't mean you have to get hormonal bloodwork done after every cycle (some do, some don't), but it means that everything I am mentioning here apart from bloodwork are all subjective indicators of possible ongoing suppression/incomplete PCT recovery/etc. BTW, you can always go to your doc if these things occur in PCT and complain about lethargy, mood, libido, etc, and suggest that maybe there is something wrong with your hormones (or whatever). If he doesn't try to diagnose you with depression, he may check you for low test levels. If he says it's probably just depression, tell him you were taking some hormonal supplements from GNC (LOL) and that the symptoms started when you stopped them. There are lots of ways to get some bloodwork ordered IOW.

Having a SERM on hand is of greatest benefit for these lighter cycles for treating gyno symptoms if they occur. The likelihood is low on Turinabol LV, but possible with any steroid. Refer to the stickies I mentioned for gyno symptoms-usually starts as itchy or puffy or burning nipple(s). If that occurs, I would run your SERM at a moderate dose (varies by SERM) until the symptoms subside. EG for nolva, you could run 20mg for a week and then 10mg for a week. The symptoms should be gone then and you can move on. Gyno and gyno symptoms (there is a difference) and how best to treat them are complicated subjects; though the risk is low, you need all the info you can get before it becomes an issue rather than after, and there is plenty of reading to do here on AM and also via Google as mentioned.

So, if you want to keep things simple this first time around, I would just run the TRS for PCT and you should be fine. In the worst case, your recovery is slower than expected (again, unlikely, but everyone is different), and you will have learned something first-hand with a milder compound that will come in handy with future cycles of the same compound as well as "heavier" cycles. So it is a win-win if you ask me. Do have a SERM on hand, but for gyno symptom control IF needed only (pref. toremifene, but nolva will suffice).

BTW, this is NO substitute for learning more yourself, but feel free to PM me if you run into gyno symptoms on cycle and want some SERM dosing/duration suggestions (they can vary depending where you are in your cycle). And this isn't meant to be a scare story (again; LOW risk of gyno with Turinabol LV), but the best medicine is prevention and being ready to take action when you dabble with hormones. So don't wait until your nipples itch to order a SERM and don't freak out if they do start itching.

Whew-that's a screenful. I don't want to regurgitate what has been posted elsewhere on PCT and gyno, so I refer you to those pages for more information on the subjects.

Good luck with your cycle.
 
Dude that was awesome....
Thanks

dumbhick3 said:
Without frequent hormonal bloodwork which isn't really feasible for most people, there is no 100% sure way to tell that you are shutdown to such and such an extent. Otherwise, it is somewhat subjective; you'll know after you run a cycle like tren (hint-save for later) that is very suppressive exactly what I mean.

Testicle size isn't an absolute indication of how well you are recovering or to what extent you are shut down (since they will only get so small), but testicle size should rebound pretty quickly during PCT. Strong steroids like superdrol will tend to give you raisin nuts on cycle quickly, so along with the other effects of sdrol (lethargy, libido problems, blah mood-symptoms of low test levels in many but not all cases), it will be pretty clear that you are shut down hard. Likewise, you would know during PCT how long it is taking (as you go) to regain your libido, energy level, mood, nut size, and whether your new body weight has stabilized yet.

Libido isn't a great guage as some steroids will directly increase or decrease it apart from suppression. If you are heavily suppressed, your libido will be too, but SERMs can suppress your libido at times even when you are well on the road to recovery (enter Phyto-Testosterone + the Sustain Alpha for libido maximization:)).

Lethargy well into PCT along with the above would be a potential concern for me as far as a possible slow recovery. Google the symptoms of testosterone deficiency to see what typical low test sides are. A depressed mood is sometimes indicative, but not always.

Also, if you are suppressed post-cycle for too long (PCT isn't strong enough, whatever), then you will probably start to lose some of your gains b/c your endogenous test is too low and cannot support that new muscle for long after stopping your steroid cycle (there are more factors than this to keeping your new post-cycle weight, such as keeping calories high during PCT). My weight usually stabilizes about 2 weeks into PCT which is a good, subjective sign of recovery for me.

The goal of PCT is to restore hormonal homeostasis and to start patching up any damage done to your liver and lipid profile-they will usually normalize with sufficient time off-just get some bloodwork done every now and then. Part of that restoration is bringing endogenous test and LH back to normal levels. Weight loss during PCT can happen anyway (even if you do everything right) with some compounds (Tren LV, Superdrone LV, etc-often b/c the magnitude of weight gain is too much too quickly for your body to hold on to, but also some water and glycogen weight may be lost when the steroid is stopped), but not so much with Turinabol LV.

You should definitely read a bit more about gyno, SERMs, and PCT. If you go the Anabolics forum here on AM, there is a sub-forum for PCT with a PCT sticky thread at the top. And on the Anabolics sub-forum (I think), there is a gyno sticky thread at the top. Those are good places to start.

Honestly, I think that the TRS will be enough for your Turinabol LV PCT. I would just plan to not use a SERM for this cycle's PCT. You should recover just fine. In the worst case, you will just have a more prolonged recovery period and need to take a bit longer off before your next cycle. You MAY lose some strength gains and weight, but I think this would be uncommon with Turinabol LV + the TRS. You can lose strength after pretty much any cycle anyway. You kind of have to get a feel for things yourself I guess in order to have a frame of reference for what is normal and what is abnormal. Read as much as you can to start creating that frame of ref and then combine with some experience.

LH is suppressed on cycle which in turn suppresses endo test production. During a successful PCT, LH becomes elevated (even above the normal range) which signals the testes to resume production of endogenous testosterone and will bring your test levels back up to the normal range and your body will eventually re-establish hormonal homeostasis. Having LH and total test checked via bloodwork 2 weeks into your PCT is the surest way IMO to ensure that you are recovering well from your cycle.

There is really no other way to say with 100% certainty that you are fully recovered hormonally from a cycle. That doesn't mean you have to get hormonal bloodwork done after every cycle (some do, some don't), but it means that everything I am mentioning here apart from bloodwork are all subjective indicators of possible ongoing suppression/incomplete PCT recovery/etc. BTW, you can always go to your doc if these things occur in PCT and complain about lethargy, mood, libido, etc, and suggest that maybe there is something wrong with your hormones (or whatever). If he doesn't try to diagnose you with depression, he may check you for low test levels. If he says it's probably just depression, tell him you were taking some hormonal supplements from GNC (LOL) and that the symptoms started when you stopped them. There are lots of ways to get some bloodwork ordered IOW.

Having a SERM on hand is of greatest benefit for these lighter cycles for treating gyno symptoms if they occur. The likelihood is low on Turinabol LV, but possible with any steroid. Refer to the stickies I mentioned for gyno symptoms-usually starts as itchy or puffy or burning nipple(s). If that occurs, I would run your SERM at a moderate dose (varies by SERM) until the symptoms subside. EG for nolva, you could run 20mg for a week and then 10mg for a week. The symptoms should be gone then and you can move on. Gyno and gyno symptoms (there is a difference) and how best to treat them are complicated subjects; though the risk is low, you need all the info you can get before it becomes an issue rather than after, and there is plenty of reading to do here on AM and also via Google as mentioned.

So, if you want to keep things simple this first time around, I would just run the TRS for PCT and you should be fine. In the worst case, your recovery is slower than expected (again, unlikely, but everyone is different), and you will have learned something first-hand with a milder compound that will come in handy with future cycles of the same compound as well as "heavier" cycles. So it is a win-win if you ask me. Do have a SERM on hand, but for gyno symptom control IF needed only (pref. toremifene, but nolva will suffice).

BTW, this is NO substitute for learning more yourself, but feel free to PM me if you run into gyno symptoms on cycle and want some SERM dosing/duration suggestions (they can vary depending where you are in your cycle). And this isn't meant to be a scare story (again; LOW risk of gyno with Turinabol LV), but the best medicine is prevention and being ready to take action when you dabble with hormones. So don't wait until your nipples itch to order a SERM and don't freak out if they do start itching.

Whew-that's a screenful. I don't want to regurgitate what has been posted elsewhere on PCT and gyno, so I refer you to those pages for more information on the subjects.

Good luck with your cycle.
Click to expand...
 
dumbhick3 - damn! your posts and help just blow me away, its unreal! Thanks man and if i run into any issues or like you said need help with dosing, you will DEFINITELY be the guy i come too!
 
I hope if you guys are buying all this stuff that you're taking advantage of our Invalid Link Removed

Pretty decent stacks though. I would definitely go with Turinabol LV over tren
 
First time DS cycle using Turinabol Stack-TRS.
Which SERM should I have on hand if any:
Nolva Clomid Toremifine
I preload on Thursday...
 
confidence is one of the most important aspects of a cycle. I think its best that you wait to take the Tren if you're hesitant.

Lots of good information in here. :fest30:
 
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