Trestolone, MENT, Any info out there on it?

10469681
Authors Noe G. Suvisaari J. Martin C. Moo-Young AJ. Sundaram K. Saleh SI. Quintero E. Croxatto HB. Lahteenmaki P.
Institution Instituto Chileno de Medicina Reproductiva, Santiago, Chile.
Title Gonadotrophin and testosterone suppression by 7alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone acetate administered by subdermal implant to healthy men.
Source Human Reproduction. 14(9):2200-6, 1999 Sep.
Abstract The synthetic androgen 7alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone (MENT) is a potent suppressor of gonadotrophin that has several advantages for long term administration to normal or hypoandrogenic men. The aim of this study was to examine MENT serum concentrations following subdermal insertion of MENT acetate (MENT Ac) implants and their effects on gonadotrophins, testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), sex hormone-binding globulin, prostate specific antigen and insulin-like growth factor-1 serum concentrations in normal men. A total of 45 healthy men were recruited at three clinics. Each subject received one, two or four implants for 28 days. Serum samples were obtained before insertion and on days 8, 15, 22, 29, 36 and 43 after implant insertion. The average daily dose delivered in vivo by one implant was approximately 500 microg. One, two or four MENT Ac implants produced dose dependent and sustained serum MENT concentrations for the entire duration of treatment of 0.7 +/- 0.1, 1.2 +/- 0.1 and 2.0 +/- 0.1 nmol/l respectively. This treatment induced a dose dependent decrease in gonadotrophin and androgen serum levels. Two and four implants induced maximal suppression that was maintained throughout treatment and was completely reversed after removal of the implants. The mean decreases were 93 +/- 1% for testosterone, 80 +/- 3% for DHT, 97 +/- 1% for luteinizing hormone and 95 +/- 1% for follicle stimulating hormone. No serious adverse reactions were reported by the volunteers and no consistent changes in clinical chemistry and haematology were found. These results indicate that MENT Ac implants are an efficient way of MENT administration and confirm the potent gonadotrophin and androgen suppressive effect of this drug.



Unique Identifier 9194649
Authors Suvisaari J. Sundaram K. Noe G. Kumar N. Aguillaume C. Tsong YY. Lahteenmaki P. Bardin CW.
Institution Steroid Research Laboratory, Institute of Biomedicine, University of Helsinki, Finland.
Title Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of 7alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone after intramuscular administration in healthy men.
Source Human Reproduction. 12(5):967-73, 1997 May.
Abstract 7alpha-Methyl-19-nortestosterone (MENT) is a potent synthetic androgen that is resistant to 5alpha-reductases and therefore less prone to over-stimulate the prostate. It is a good candidate for implant administration in long-term androgen replacement therapy for hypogonadal men or as part of a male contraceptive system. To investigate the pharmacokinetics of MENT after i.m. administration, single i.m. injections of 2, 4 or 8 mg of micronized MENT were given in aqueous suspension to 18 healthy men in two clinics. Blood was sampled frequently for 8 h and 1, 2, 3, 4 and 9 days after the injections. Serum MENT concentrations were determined by radioimmunoassay. Peak MENT concentrations were dose-dependent and were reached about 1-2 h after the injections. Doubling the dose of MENT resulted in an increase of 60% in peak serum MENT concentrations. The mean +/- SE clearance rate was 1790 +/- 140 l/day. The antigonadotrophic activity of MENT was investigated by giving six consecutive daily i.m. injections of 1, 2 or 4 mg of MENT to 24 healthy men in two clinics. Blood was sampled before each injection and up to 24 days after the last injection. Serum testosterone and gonadotrophin concentrations (determined by radioimmunoassay and fluoroimmunoassay respectively) decreased in a dose-dependent and statistically significant manner. The highest dose caused a 74% fall in testosterone, a 70% fall in luteinizing hormone, and a 57% fall in follicle stimulating hormone concentrations. MENT injections did not cause any side-effects. The results show that MENT is a potent antigonadotrophic agent in men.
Publication Type Clinical Trial. Controlled Clinical Trial. Journal Article. Multicenter Study.


Those are a few that I could find off hand. They're available online so posting the entire article should be no problem. Let me know which one's look good. Also, If you've got specific questions you want me to look up I can certainly do my best.
 
I'm curious as to why metribolone is so hard on the liver. You would think that all 17AA compounds would be equally demanding on the liver, but this doesn't seem to be the case. Is there something unique to its structure that makes it more liver toxic even when used in microgram dosages?
 
It's a complex issue. I have explained it in posts on other threads here before, but it's basically about molecular structure. Icterus is the main issue. High doses of 17-alkylated steroids can cause pruritus if obstructive jaundice develops. This accelerates icterus. This is not seen even with massive doses of highly potent non-alkylated steroids, so the cause of intrahepatic cholestasis is due to the structure of the steroid itself. The more androgenic, the harsher the effect. 17-alkylation protects from metabolic deactivation, so dose and potency are the main factors with orals. Androgenicity can simplely be viewed as local anabolism in this model. It is tissue specific anabolism actually. I would elaborate, but you'd all start yawning!
 
Just to chime in...
Anybody have results yet? Also, in another thread, a someone had tried 20mg oral per day or something like that. Big Cat had stated that it was not at all active orally. From the looks of previous posts in this thread, it looks orally active. What's the consensus?
 
Cool, thanks! So from what I could see in that study... MENT is orally active, and once daily IM injections are as frequent as you would need. It would shut you down hard, like other androgens, but since it doesn't accumulate in tissue you should bounce back quickly? It also seems libido neutral. Why haven't people been trying this out? Fear of the unknown? I'm a little wary to try it out since others that are wiser are not trying it. Although maybe thats why noone's tried it yet...
 
If I read that study correctly, Ment non-acetate was the compound that was used in the oral part of the research?
 
I've been giving serious consideration to using this at 50-100mg oral ed. Still haven't decided, but I probly will. If I do I'll keep a log.
 
So I've decided that I am gonna do it. I just haven't decided if I want to pin it at 50mg ed for 8 weeks and throw e-max in for the last four, or go 100mg ed oral for 4 weeks and e-max for four more.

The main reason I'm split is suppression. Since this stuff is so suppressive, I really don't want to run HCG, though I will if I have to. I've always thought that anything longer than 8 weeks warrants it and anything shorter doesn't need it. Since this stuff is so suppressive though I'm wondering if I'd need it even if it is just an 8 weeker. I'm going to be running low dose ATD for the whole cycle to fight estrogen and I'm also going to be using it for pct along with Activate and lean xtreme. If I pin it I'm also gonna have to homebrew it, which could prove difficult, since I don't have an oven and I've never homebrewed anything before.

If anyone has any advice I'm totally open.
 
The vendor that I know of that carries MENT powder also carries a "magic" solution that makes homebrewing much easier. It's an oil/solvent mix which I believe contains BA. That should make a nice sterile solution that you wouldn't have to bake. The price is great too. Like $20 for 100ml of the stuff, and it can do up to 200mg/ml. That's the route I'm looking at doing as well. I just have to recoup the supplement budget after buying up some bottles of PP.
Also, you might want to consider throwing some Nolva in for PCT. With natural test being so low after a MENT cycle it will probably be needed to keep the estrogen in check while you recover. Nolva is pretty cheap (although not AS cheap since CNW stopped carrying it - grr... stupid legal attack dogs) and it's good insurance.
 
how much do you weigh, 50mg might be too much, this stuff is very wet, test subject was still retaining water even with a low dose of letro, ATD may not cut it. HCG is not a bad idea to prepare the testes for testosterone production again through the HPTA by simulating LH production(HCG does not "kickstart" your LH production, it suppresses it. It mimics LH in the body.), in the birth control testing it was recommended that a LH production stimulant be used along side it for long term use, it still wouldn't hurt for short term use.
 
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goa1175 said:
The vendor that I know of that carries MENT powder also carries a "magic" solution that makes homebrewing much easier. It's an oil/solvent mix which I believe contains BA. That should make a nice sterile solution that you wouldn't have to bake. The price is great too. Like $20 for 100ml of the stuff, and it can do up to 200mg/ml. That's the route I'm looking at doing as well. I just have to recoup the supplement budget after buying up some bottles of PP.
Also, you might want to consider throwing some Nolva in for PCT. With natural test being so low after a MENT cycle it will probably be needed to keep the estrogen in check while you recover. Nolva is pretty cheap (although not AS cheap since CNW stopped carrying it - grr... stupid legal attack dogs) and it's good insurance.
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It will sort of hold at 75mg/ml in the magic solution you speak of, It has to be heated prior to use because it gels up otherwise, it is not painful in the least so dont worry about that, B12 hurts more, (place vial in a water bath and bring it to a boil, voila)

Nolva or Ralox is a must as gyno is likely due to the wetness, also on a side note it does not seem to support or hinder libido at higher doses like 50mg/day
 
I'm about 5'6" 185. I thought 50 mg was a moderate dose. If not 50 mg then how much? Should I get nolva and letro or just letro? I already bought the atd to run during the cycle from day one.
 
mywetnightmares said:
I'm about 5'6" 185. I thought 50 mg was a moderate dose. If not 50 mg then how much? Should I get nolva and letro or just letro? I already bought the atd to run during the cycle from day one.
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test subject is 220ish, 45mg/day seemed plenty. keep in mind, it is non-esterfied, in the BC testing, subjects were given less than 10mg/day(if memory serves me correct it was like 8mg) and experienced suppression. NOLVA is a must if you start to get gyno, i have not used ATD so I dont know how it compares to letro in strength. 30mg might be a good dose of MENT, its non-esterfied so it will be fast acting like test-susp so if you feel you can handle more, by all means ramp it up, I would really suggest 2x daily dosing, its really quite painless, and insulin syringes would be fine(make sure the oil is hot when you draw or it will take FOREVER) since you dont need a lot of the susp. at all, it would probably help reduce the possibility of gyno by keeping hormone levels more consistent, keep in mind big cat's dosage recommendations were for MENT Acetate, so you dont need quite as much. are you running this as a stand-alone? please keep a log of how this goes for you.
 
From what I've read 50mg is pretty high if you're pinning it. Everything I've seen is 20-30mg ED.
Nolva will definitely be needed for this. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Letro is more for preventing aromatization while on cycle. Nolva is to minimize the effects of estrogen while in PCT. During PCT the estrogen/test ratio is highly skewed toward estrogen which can lead to gyno. I think the Nolva also helps dry you out. At least that's been my impression of how the chem guru's have explained it. Dr. D's famous Nolva/Fenugreek/DHEA combo might be they way to go here.
 
50mg is high to pin if you are only 185lbs, use letro or ATD while on to prevent excess estrogen through aromitization, and have nolva to combat gyno if it develops and for PCT.
 
Aight so I'll get some nolva, and I'll try running it at 25-30 mg ed. The cycle's still a long way off since MENT ain't cheap and I ain't rich. I'm wondering if I'm gonna need once or twice daily pins. I read a log of a guy that pinned it and he only pinned once a day since it has a relatively long halflife for a base. He was also using a higher dose however so I dunno.
 
once a day is fine, but 2x would yield more stable levels. at 25mg a day it comes to $1.25 a day which isnt bad at all, and 40 days worth which should definately be time enough to get some gains since it is fast acting. keep us informed on how it goes.
 
mywetnightmares said:
... I'm about 5'6" 185. I thought 50 mg was a moderate dose. If not 50 mg then how much? ...
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50mg oral or trans, yes. 50mg pinned may be excessive for your weight. Trans is a great way to stretch out the kinetics of a once daily dose. It will be more anabolic mg/mg but more suppressive as well. Pinned, the dose will be delivered in just a few hours (unless it's a suspension and not a solution). I'd do a trans cycle, or 15-25mg 2x/d oral. You could do an injection if you brew with EO or Castor oil to slow down the depo, but it still won't solve all the practical probs in this case.
 
So ur saying pinning once/day wouldn't be a god idea? If I have to pin twice/day then I think I'll probly do it orally just for the fact that my schedule can be kinda hectic and I don't wanna be missing injections. If I like it and decide to do it again then I may pin it then. When I start my cycle I will be keeping a log.
 
weeenisss said:
...(make sure the oil is hot...
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weeenisss said:
...since you dont need a lot of the susp. at all...
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Okay, help me here. I've seen oil-based hormones that are solutions (hormone is totally dissolved), but you call it a suspension, which means it is still in a powder form in the oil. That's odd. Typically an esterless hormone suspension uses water as the carrier. I mean, I've seen sources call oil-based TNE (test no-ester, also called test base) "suspension" but they obviously are wrong since it's a solution. Did you use the wrong wording? If not, I wanna know how this was done because it's the first oil-based suspension I've ever heard of.

Can you shoot me the recipe, as this is new to me.
 
You could do it (only pin once a day) and it will minimize, or slow down the rate of suppression. If you just wanted to do a quick 2 week tester you could. If you want max results, I'd pin twice daily, go with the trans or pin suspension instead of solution. That would be unsterile though and takes a skilled homebrew specialist for sure. Oral would be my second choice after trans.
 
What doseage would you recommend trans, still 50 mg? I'm thinking I might go oral twice a day. 50 mg total ed, but if you think trans would be more efficient, lemme know.
 
DR.D said:
You could do it (only pin once a day) and it will minimize, or slow down the rate of suppression. If you just wanted to do a quick 2 week tester you could. If you want max results, I'd pin twice daily, go with the trans or pin suspension instead of solution. That would be unsterile though and takes a skilled homebrew specialist for sure. Oral would be my second choice after trans.
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Are you saying that the suspension would be unsterile? If so, why would it be unsterile? BA is used in it in an amount equal to bact. water too. Most people thought they used to get infections from water-based suspensions because of the pain they experienced from the hormone causing irritation.

I'm still wanting to hear what this guy made.
 
Trans would offer nice, linear, 24hr kinetics. Like an acetate ester when injected daily. Slow, steady release that gives a good anabolic blood level without spikes. Twice a day oral would get the job done though, I bet.
 
Maybe I'll go trans next time, but this time I think I'll just go oral. I'm gonna run it for 40 days of a 60 day cycle. The last 30 I'm gonna use either e-max or SD. I'm leaning towards e-max.
 
wow another fascinating thead that will probably tap my wallet just in case LOL.

Is this or is this not the acetate

17b-Hydroxy-7a-methylestr-4-en-3-one

Thanks in advance for an answer from one of you much more chemically inclined.
 
17b-Hydroxy-7a-methylestr-4-ene-3-one is the free steroid. It would say 17b-Acetoxy-7a-methylestr-4-ene-3-one or 17b-Hydroxy-7a-methylestr-4-ene-3-one acetate if it were the ester.
 
goa1175 said:
The vendor that I know of that carries MENT powder also carries a "magic" solution that makes homebrewing much easier. It's an oil/solvent mix which I believe contains BA. That should make a nice sterile solution that you wouldn't have to bake. The price is great too. Like $20 for 100ml of the stuff, and it can do up to 200mg/ml. That's the route I'm looking at doing as well. I just have to recoup the supplement budget after buying up some bottles of PP.
Also, you might want to consider throwing some Nolva in for PCT. With natural test being so low after a MENT cycle it will probably be needed to keep the estrogen in check while you recover. Nolva is pretty cheap (although not AS cheap since CNW stopped carrying it - grr... stupid legal attack dogs) and it's good insurance.
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keep in mind that the ment from your vender is in base form, not the acetate, and that it may be difficult to get this stuff into sol. maybe someone has successfully gotten this stuff in sol. and can share that info w/ everyone
 
N4cer said:
Are you saying that the suspension would be unsterile? If so, why would it be unsterile? BA is used in it in an amount equal to bact. water too. Most people thought they used to get infections from water-based suspensions because of the pain they experienced from the hormone causing irritation.

I'm still wanting to hear what this guy made.
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Bobby B. would be soooooo proud you've made it this far!!!!!!:clap2:
 
jcam222 said:
So as the base compound is it still effective as an IM? How about oral?
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The base is still effective either way. For IM injections you'd pretty much have to pin twice a day though. That's why I'm not pinning it this cycle. Oral is also effective, which is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do 50 mg ed oral.
 
How much ATD should I run on cycle? I thought 50 mg ed would be good, but then when I calculated it out today I might have come up buying one gram less than I should have. I also think I wanna cut this cycle down to about 6 weeks to keep suppression at a minimum. Right now I have enough ATD to run it at about 35 mg ed. Should I just order another gram or would 35mg ed cut it?
 
s.norman said:
keep in mind that the ment from your vender is in base form, not the acetate, and that it may be difficult to get this stuff into sol. maybe someone has successfully gotten this stuff in sol. and can share that info w/ everyone
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75mg/ml in warm oil depot, it would gel after sitting for a day and getting cold but was completely painless after warming in a hot water bath, it might actually hold solution at slightly less concentration, it never clumped into powder, it just turned into a clear gel that was too thick to draw
 
DR.D said:
Trans would offer nice, linear, 24hr kinetics. Like an acetate ester when injected daily. Slow, steady release that gives a good anabolic blood level without spikes. Twice a day oral would get the job done though, I bet.
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any idea what a good transdermal dosage would be for this? something equivalent to 35mg a day pinned? also if anyone knows how this would compare to nadrolone as far as helping repair and build connective tissue? I know its a narolone derivative, so im thinking it would have similar effect.
 
weeenisss said:
any idea what a good transdermal dosage would be for this? something equivalent to 35mg a day pinned? also if anyone knows how this would compare to nadrolone as far as helping repair and build connective tissue? I know its a narolone derivative, so im thinking it would have similar effect.
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I'm thinking it may be an effective base substance promoter too, based in it's 19-nor structure and aromatizable potential. I can't find specific info on this compound. However, even if it's not anabolic in connective tissue, it is still at least anti-catabolic in these tissues based on it's corticometric activity, so it could only help speed repairs most likely.

I'm unsure of the practical % of delivery with this compound. 70-100mg/d may be a good equivalent TD dose for 35mg pinned. With a good, customized (or even an enhanced commercial) TD carrier solution, I suspect it is very high. TD effectiveness is usually underestimated IMO, if done at the right concentration using an efficient carrier applied correctly to the right sites, etc.. Not greater than 50%, however, I'd estimate.
 
I don't mind the fact that he bumped an old thread, this was always an intersting compound to me. The problem is that he didn't really have anything interesting to say.
 
Wow this is an old one. I'm actually pretty surprised that supplement companies have still yet to come out with this compound as a new "designer". I still think that this would be superior to most if not all of the compounds currently available.
 
mywetnightmares said:
I don't mind the fact that he bumped an old thread, this was always an intersting compound to me. The problem is that he didn't really have anything interesting to say.
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Hey, at least he used the search function and didn't just post a new thread...there's some really good info in here.
 
jmh80 said:
I thought this guy was scheduled class III already???
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As far as I know it was never scheduled...it was available in powder from a vendor who sold "research chems" a while back.
 
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