Trestolone, MENT, Any info out there on it?
- Thread starter 50joe
- Start date
sergeant
Registered User
I think I just might give it a try in 6 weeks or so. Just cutting down with Prostanozol. It has worked really well with a CKD. I have actually lost BF and feel good, solid lifts, still strong. I will PCT with ActivTE, Camph, and rebound for 4 weeks. I have done a lot of PH's over the years and have been lifting for a long time. I have a good solid base but want to crank it up a notch.
I was thinking of making adding 1gm powder to 99 ml OO to make 10mg/ml solution and then doing 4 weeks of 20 mg, 30mg, 30mg,40mg. I will keep it at 20 or 30 if it works at the lower doses. I was also thinking of doing 20 mg of SD for week 5+6 to soldify things. Thoughts?
i have a couple of questions first, I have a ton of Nolva, will letro be necessary for a gyno flair. I am not concerned with the bloat. Will run ancillaries like pro liver and ALCAR. Anything else?
I was thinking of making adding 1gm powder to 99 ml OO to make 10mg/ml solution and then doing 4 weeks of 20 mg, 30mg, 30mg,40mg. I will keep it at 20 or 30 if it works at the lower doses. I was also thinking of doing 20 mg of SD for week 5+6 to soldify things. Thoughts?
i have a couple of questions first, I have a ton of Nolva, will letro be necessary for a gyno flair. I am not concerned with the bloat. Will run ancillaries like pro liver and ALCAR. Anything else?
quigs
Well-known member
I would definitely suggest using the letro or even some ATD product while on cycle to prevent estrogoen as this compound will aromatize.sergeant said:
As far as the superdrol to finish up...you might want to give pheraflex a shot as its androgenic properties appear to be very high. Give you a good hardening effect after a potentially bloating cycle. Just a suggestion...
sergeant
Registered User
Pleas forgive mi ignorance, what is the acronym ATD. How much Letro would you suggest? Each Day or Every Other Day? THought that this compound was highly androgenic from what I have read, follow up with another androgen? Was thinking that the SD would really help get rid of the bloat. Maybe some MAX LMG instead, suppose to be dry and androgenic.
I also forgot to mention that this would be an oral solution, pinning is an impossibility for me.
I also forgot to mention that this would be an oral solution, pinning is an impossibility for me.
quigs said:
quigs
Well-known member
ATD is the compound that DS rebound xt contains (1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione orsergeant said:
3,17-keto-etiochol-triene) it is an aromatase inhibitor. Giant nutrition also makes an ATD product for around $20. Most feedback from this product has been very good.
ATD alone...at a decent dose may be all you need to combat the estogen increase from this product.
As far as Letro, I'm not familiar enough with that compound to feel that I am comfortable/qualified to give you an estimated dosage. I will bump however in hopes that someone can help you out...
DR.D
Well-known member
brogers said:
I like them better. 50mg ATD, 250mg Teslac (oral) or 25mg Examestane work very well and give a buffered/protracted effect. They are more expensive though, so I utilize letro at low doses usually. You may want to consider low dose clomid (~25mg/d) if cholesterol ratios/levels are a concern, but I like to save it for PCT mostly due to it's toxicity, especially stacked with orals. I am not as fond of A-dex and nolva, but they can be used with similar protocols.
sergeant
Registered User
I was looking at one of the board sponsors and they have it as 2.5 mg per ml. So that would be .1 ml every other day to get .125 every da based upon the half life. That seems like a pretty small amount. A bottle would last forever. Am I missing something?
DR.D said:Sorry, I meant 0.125mg/day! That's a pretty big difference (thanks for the correction)
DR.D
Well-known member
sergeant said:
Nope, your not missing anything. You have it exactly right. A bottle does last forever (~1-2 years for me) so it's extremely economical. I buy separate dropper bottles and dilute the 2.5mg/ml stock for easier use. For example, 60mls of 0.1mg/ml would require a total of 2.4ml of the stock. This can be measured with a plastic 3cc syringe with good enough accuracy. Then dilute it up to 60ml with oil, water, or 50% ethanol with a little PS80 in it. It depends on your source, they all seem to use different cutting liquids. A suspension is fine, as a solution may require nasty diluent like absolute ethanol or PEG. One of the risks of dosing it sloppy style (over .3mg/d) is rebound or burn out. If your lucky, it just stops working after about 2 months. If your not, it actually works inversely based on the rebound, so more is not better. If you wanna play it safe, you can't go wrong with 0.2mg/d.
sergeant
Registered User
Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. i did a search and found a lot of people taking much higher dosage like 1.25 ed. So you would say that would be overkill.
I am really rethinking trying this stuff. There is another thread that is saying that the new compound is way toxic. Check it out and tell us what you think.
I am really rethinking trying this stuff. There is another thread that is saying that the new compound is way toxic. Check it out and tell us what you think.
DR.D said:
natiels
Board Supporter
Im not seeing the thread that mentions this is toxic. Could you post a link? I do see another thread talking about a related toxic compound but its not MENT.sergeant said:
I found this study on MENT. It seems somewhat informative, especially for someone who wants to try it. Most of the good info on MENT is in the last 30 pages starting around page 50.
Invalid Link Removed
I really really wanna try this stuff so i have been looking for as much info as possible. I would be taking it orally in an oil solution. Think i might go with 10mg 3x/day or perhaps 20mg divided into 3 daily doses, not sure yet. What would a good guess be on the oral bioavailability?
sergeant
Registered User
PLEASE, forgive me for being such a dumbass. Man I am banishing myself from the board for at least a week. I apologize, I am really not that stupid. Earlier in this thread there was some talk about toxicity, Big Cat's article mentioned toxicity and the T portion of the two compunds caught my eye and I did not read it very well. At least, after pointing that out to me, I am back to trying it. Again, sorry for the confusion, thanks for no hard flames.
Boss_K said:
natiels
Board Supporter
Testosterone enanthate has been used as a contraceptive too. MENT is supposed to be 12 times more suppressive then test and 10 times more anabolic. People routinely take 500-750mg of test/week on cycles (injected at near 100% BA). I am planning on taking 105-175mg a week (orally..maybe 35% BA?).T-Bone said:
The lower end of my dose is less then 1/10 the 750mg mark for test when you figure in the 35% BA. If i were to take 500mg of MENT per week, then yes...i would experience 12x the suppression, but why would anyone do such a thing? That would be like taking 5000 mg of test.
My goal with this compound is to find a dosage that provides me with the anabolism of 500-750mg of test/wk which should equal just slightly more suppression then an equal dosage of test. Also, while the estrogen that comes from MENT is potent i don't believe it is 10x as potent as normal estrogen so my dosage will likely provide less chances for gyno then an equivelent dosage of test.
I am still doing research and trying to come up with a good dosage so things may change a bit.
50joe
Member
And anyway, its a given that you will probably not be able to get it up after a few days on it, its supposed to shut you down. We're looking for it's muscle building aspects. I'm sure with the proper ancillaries on cycle and a solid PCT you will bring the boys back from the dead. I really look forward to anyone who will be doing a cycle of it.
natiels
Board Supporter
One of the good things about MENT is one of the reasons it was chosen for a contraceptive. It supports sexual function. No point to a contraceptive that makes you impotent by making you literally impotent50joe said:
. Who knows at high dose tho. I'm hoping it will just boost libido.
quigs
Well-known member
natiels said:
No problem. I'm a med student, so I have access to plenty of journal articles on anabolics. I've found around 20 studies on MENT in humans. There's some interesting info on this product if you guys are interested. Let me know if you'd like me to dig some up and post abstracts or something.
quigs
Well-known member
50joe said:
Not a problem guys. I have access to one of the largest collections of medical journals in the country...so if you've got questions I'd be happy to help. To give you an idea, MEDLINE is one of several databases for these articles and medline has almost all of the journal articles from around the world that have been published since 1966. Basically, if it's been studied and published, I can find it. I'm at home right now, so I will post some of the online articles that I can find from MEDLINE. I'll be in the library sometime this weekend and will have access to all of the paper copies of these journals...so i'll be able to find more. You see, there are a limited number of articles that are still kept in their full text online (still a lot but not nearly my school's entire collection). The rest are all in bound journals at the school library. Anyways, I'll post some of the abstracts (articles are really long to post) and you can let me know which you'd like to see more info on and I'll go look it up.
Here goes:
Unique Identifier 14602755
Authors von Eckardstein S. Noe G. Brache V. Nieschlag E. Croxatto H. Alvarez F. Moo-Young A. Sivin I. Kumar N. Small M. Sundaram K. International Committee for Contraception Research, The Population Council.
Institution Institute of Reproductive Medicine, University of Munster, Munster, Germany.
Title A clinical trial of 7 alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone implants for possible use as a long-acting contraceptive for men.
Source Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. 88(11):5232-9, 2003 Nov.
Abstract Several preparations of testosterone and its esters are being investigated alone or in combination with other gonadotropin-suppressing agents as possible antifertility agents for men. We studied the effectiveness of 7 alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone (MENT) as an antispermatogenic agent in men. MENT has been shown to be more potent than testosterone and to be resistant to 5 alpha-reduction. For sustained delivery of MENT, we used a system consisting of ethylene vinyl acetate implants containing MENT acetate (Ac), administered subdermally. Thirty-five normal volunteers were recruited in 3 clinics and were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 doses: 1 (12 men), 2 (11 men), or 4 (12 men) MENT Ac implants. The initial average in vitro release rate of MENT Ac from each implant was approximately 400 micro g/day. Implants were inserted subdermally in the medial aspect of the upper arm under local anesthesia. The duration of treatment was initially designed to be 6 months. However, in 2 clinics the duration of treatment was extended to 9 months for the 2-implant group and to 12 months for the 4-implant group. Dose-related increases in serum MENT levels and decreases in testosterone, LH, and FSH levels were observed. Effects on sperm counts were also dose related. None of the subjects in the 1-implant group exhibited oligozoospermia (sperm count, <3 million/ml). Four subjects in the 2-implant group became oligozoospermic, 2 of whom reached azoospermia. Eight subjects in the 4-implant group reached azoospermia, with 1 exhibiting oligozoospermia, whereas 2 were nonresponders. Side effects generally seen with androgen administration, such as increases in erythrocyte count, hematocrit, and hemoglobin and a decrease in SHBG, were also seen in this study and were reversible. Changes in lipid parameters were moderate and transient. Liver enzymes showed small changes. This study demonstrates that MENT Ac, when administered in a sustained release fashion via subdermal implants, can inhibit spermatogenesis over a prolonged period after a single administration and has the potential to be used as a male contraceptive.
Unique Identifier 12788888
Authors Anderson RA. Wallace AM. Sattar N. Kumar N. Sundaram K.
Institution Medical Research Council Human Reproductive Sciences Unit, University of Edinburgh, Edinburgh, United Kingdom EH16 4SB. [email protected]
Title Evidence for tissue selectivity of the synthetic androgen 7 alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone in hypogonadal men.
Source Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. 88(6):2784-93, 2003 Jun.
Abstract The potent synthetic androgen 7 alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone (MENT) is resistant to 5 alpha-reductase but is a substrate for aromatase. It may therefore offer selective sparing of the prostate gland while supporting other androgen-dependent tissues. MENT acetate implants were administered for 24 wk to 16 hypogonadal men, randomly allocated to 1 or 2 implants (groups I and II, respectively; releasing approximately 400 microg/d x implant). Hemoglobin concentration and hematocrit were maintained during MENT treatment. Prostate volume fell in group I and to a small, but statistically nonsignificant, degree in group II; the level of prostate-specific antigen fell significantly in both. Lumbar spine bone mineral density decreased in both groups. Sexual behavior and erectile function declined in group I, but were maintained in group II. Thus, overall, one MENT implant appeared to provide subphysiological androgen replacement. The 2-implant dose of MENT was able to maintain most androgen-dependent functions, except bone mass, and there was evidence to support selective sparing of the prostate gland. These results demonstrate for the first time in humans the selectivity of MENT in tissues dependent on 5 alpha-reductase. In addition, our data are consistent with the importance of adequate estrogenicity as part of the necessary spectrum of activity of an androgen for replacement therapy in men.
Unique Identifier 10522995
Authors Anderson RA. Martin CW. Kung AW. Everington D. Pun TC. Tan KC. Bancroft J. Sundaram K. Moo-Young AJ. Baird DT.
Institution Medical Research Council Reproductive Biology Unit, Center for Reproductive Biology, Edinburgh, Scotland. [email protected]
Title 7Alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone maintains sexual behavior and mood in hypogonadal men.
Source Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. 84(10):3556-62, 1999 Oct.
Abstract The synthetic steroid 7alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone (MENT) is a potent androgen that is resistant to 5alpha-reductase. It thus has decreased activity at the prostate and may have advantages over testosterone-based regimens in long term treatment or as part of a male contraceptive. Administration to eugonadal men results in suppression of gonadotropins, but its ability to support androgen-dependent behavior has not been investigated. For sustained release administration, MENT acetate was used, because its diffusion characteristics were more suitable for use in implants. However, upon release the acetate is rapidly hydrolyzed, and MENT is the biologically active moiety in circulation. We studied the effects of MENT on sexual interest and activity, spontaneous erection, and mood states in comparison with testosterone enanthate (TE) in 20 Caucasian and Chinese hypogonadal men recruited in Edinburgh and Hong Kong (n = 10 in each center). Outcomes were measured using a combination of daily diaries, semistructured interviews, and questionnaires. Nocturnal penile tumescence (NPT) was also recorded in the Edinburgh group. After withdrawal of androgen replacement treatment (wash-out phase) for a minimum of 6 weeks, subjects were randomized to two groups in a cross-over design. Drug treatment regimens were of 6-week duration and consisted of two implants, each containing 115 mg MENT acetate, inserted s.c. into the upper arm and removed after 6 weeks and two injections of TE (200 mg, i.m.) 3 weeks apart. MENT treatment resulted in stable plasma MENT concentrations of 1.4 +/- 0.1 nmol/L after 3 weeks and 1.3 +/- 0.1 nmol/L after 6 weeks (mean +/- SEM; all men). Nadir testosterone concentrations were 3.6 +/- 0.6 nmol/L at the end of the wash-out phase and 9.4 +/- 0.6 nmol/L 3 weeks after each injection. There were no differences in hormone concentrations between centers. There were no adverse toxicological effects. There were only minor differences between the two treatments. Both MENT and TE treatment resulted in significant increases in sexual interest and activity, spontaneous erection (both by self-report and NPT measurement), and increases in positive moods, with decreases in negative moods in the Edinburgh group. In the Hong Kong group, both treatments increased waking erection, with a trend toward increased sexual interest and activity. Mood states appeared to be less affected during the wash-out phase than in Edinburgh men and showed no significant response to either treatment. These results demonstrate that MENT has similar effects on sexual activity and mood states as testosterone in hypogonadal men. As NPT is a physiological androgen-dependant outcome, these data provide further evidence for the androgenicity of MENT. The lack of detected effect of either androgen in Hong Kong men other than on waking erection illustrates the importance of the cultural context of symptomatology and its measurement. The appropriate dose of MENT remains to be determined, but these results support its development as a potential androgen replacement therapy.