Tren Discussion

UnrealMachine said:
pudz how about 100mg test prop ed and 75mg tren ace ed

sounds like its got the right balance to me

doesn't 100mg test prop work better than 100mg test enanthate because more of the weight is testosterone and less is the ester?
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this is what I planned to do
 
datBtrue said:
pudzian2 or anyone else who should read this. DO NOT USE 3 Grams of Testosterone per week!

It is not healthy as the long run consequences are unknown. That much testosterone could promote/encourage pre-cancerous states within the body or promote/encourage tumour growth.

I did that during an experimental time in my life which also included using DNP. I pray everytime I go to the eye doctor that he doesn't discover cateracts forming brought about by the prior DNP. You see it isn't the short-term side-effects that I worry about...rather it is the long-term consequences to my health and longevity that I worry about.

It is so difficult to lose site of this when you are younger. I would not make those choices again if given the chance.

Practically speaking you could get a lot more growth for your money if you use sane cycles spread over longer periods of time. After all of the years of cycling I've done I still use no more than 750mg of test per week. I believe this always works for me because I diet for a month or two prior to every bulking cycle...

...I don't believe we need to keep pushing doses up higher and higher for each suceeding cycle.

pudzian2 1 gram of test is too much. Also a little tren goes a long way.

The biggest concern of tren use is blood pressure issues. Almost everyone has high blood pressure on tren and for some the blood pressure increase becomes very dangerous. The higher the dose the bigger the concern.

Tren and Deca are two compounds that I haven't used in a long while. It is always difficult for me to recover from using them. Always start low and assess tolerance and then use the minimum amount necessary to grow & stay healthy.

Again bro don't use my past foolishness as a guide. Don't play with your health that way. Please have more respect for yourself than I did when I was a younger me.
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oh by no means was I about to start pinning 3g test per week. I never imagine myself doing that. I believe in fewer drugs (quantitatively) but a healthier and more effective combination strategy. I am growing well right now using 750mg Test enth and 600mg EQ per week. I am on mid week 7 out of 14. from week 8 to 11 or 12 I may bump my doses up to 1g test and 800mg EQ while using slin 5-10IU PWO (humalog) I feel the little boost of adrogen levels will maximize the benefits of slin.

do you agree that 1g of test prop is more than 1g test enth becuase of ester weight and things? I mean it seems like a credible reason. as others will attest to. anyway. I do think 1g of test prop is too much while running with tren. I am thinking along the lines of 100mg test prop ED and 75mg Tren ED for maybe 8-10 weeks, running tren for only the first 6 weeks or so.

I am very concerned with my health and I am a fan of doing blood work very often. I do however have high aspirations for myself in the field of bodybuilding and I just like to plan ahead and throw ideas out there.
 
1g of prop is, of course, more test than 1g enan.

"100mg test prop ED and 75mg Tren ED for maybe 8-10 weeks, running tren for only the first 6 weeks or so." -that is good, 7 weeks tren 10 weeks prop looks even better.
 
pudzian I understand your reasoning...but take into consideration that if you bump up your dosing then it will take longer before you can "effectively" start PCT because it will take longer than those generally accepted guidance charts indicate for your daily blood levels to return to about 10mg (aprox. what your body produces in a day).

For example the generally accepted guidance chart indicates to start PCT 2 weeks after your last shot of test-enanthate...however that estimate is based on dosing of 500mg per week...which as a result has your daily blood level drop to 10mg 2 weeks post shot.

Dosing 750mg of test-e & 600mg of EQ per weeks means 2 weeks after your last shot your active hormone level will be 41mg; three weeks after the last shot it will be 19mg; finally at three weeks and five days it is at 10mg.

See the chart:
Invalid Link Removed
Click to enlarge

If you up the doses to 1000mg of test-e & 800mg of EQ for about 3 weeks the blood levels rise as follows: they will be at 53mg two weeks post last shot; at 24mg after three weeks; finally at four weeks plus maybe a day it is at 10mg.

See tha abbreviated chart:
Invalid Link Removed
Click to enlarge

So take the hormone clearance into account when devising your overall plan and PCT.

One other thing you might consider is that if your last week on is at a high level of hormone you will have a higher level of cortisol to contend with when you come off (also estrogen as well unless you've already accounted for it through the use of AIs in the final weeks). An old school taper is one way to reduce this problem....even if the taper is just one or two weeks.
 
datBtrue said:
pudzian I understand your reasoning...but take into consideration that if you bump up your dosing then it will take longer before you can "effectively" start post cycle therapy because it will take longer than those generally accepted guidance charts indicate for your daily blood levels to return to about 10mg (aprox. what your body produces in a day).

For example the generally accepted guidance chart indicates to start PCT 2 weeks after your last shot of test-enanthate...however that estimate is based on dosing of 500mg per week...which as a result has your daily blood level drop to 10mg 2 weeks post shot.

Dosing 750mg of test-e & 600mg of EQ per weeks means 2 weeks after your last shot your active hormone level will be 41mg; three weeks after the last shot it will be 19mg; finally at three weeks and five days it is at 10mg.

See the chart:
Invalid Link Removed
Click to enlarge

If you up the doses to 1000mg of test-e & 800mg of EQ for about 3 weeks the blood levels rise as follows: they will be at 53mg two weeks post last shot; at 24mg after three weeks; finally at four weeks plus maybe a day it is at 10mg.

See tha abbreviated chart:
Invalid Link Removed
Click to enlarge

So take the hormone clearance into account when devising your overall plan and PCT.

One other thing you might consider is that if your last week on is at a high level of hormone you will have a higher level of cortisol to contend with when you come off (also estrogen as well unless you've already accounted for it through the use of AIs in the final weeks). An old school taper is one way to reduce this problem....even if the taper is just one or two weeks.
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well I haven't quite put it to paper yet (finalized that is) but I am aware of the ester clearance issue. at 750mg test and 600EQ I will have to wait ~3.5 weeks for the hormone levels to be acceptable for PCT.I would stop the EQ 1 week earlier than the test becuase EQ takes longer to clear (so I've heard). Anyway The 3 ish week gap where I'm riding out the injectable ester is when I intended to run 1 or a safe combination of 2 relatively mild orals (epistane and trenaplex is planned right now) to keep my gains during this time.

I had not viewed the charts yet and I thank you for chiming in about that. I planned on bumping up the dosages for 3-4 weeks (week 8-11 or 12) and then tapering down to 500mg by week 14, and then from 14 to 16 I will just ride out the esters. Does this sound right to you? or will there be a carry-over effect from the higher dosed period? As mentioned earlier the EQ would stop a week prior to test unless you think this is unnecessary (they are both enanthate esters though...)
 
pudzian2 said:
...Does this sound right to you? or will there be a carry-over effect from the higher dosed period?
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Bro it sounds like you know what you're doing. Your plan is well thought out and takes into account the clearance rate for those esters. Looks good to me.
 
datBtrue said:
Bro it sounds like you know what you're doing. Your plan is well thought out and takes into account the clearance rate for those esters. Looks good to me.
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thanks man. I appreciate all of your help. You appear to have more trial experience than I. I have just accumulated a lot of theoretic experience from doing all my research. I like to ask guys what works and what doesnt in reality. On paper, things are always too perfect ya know>?
 
if your EQ is actually boldenone enanthate you could stop it with the test. Its the same ester with same clearance and kick in times. Just because its boldenone doesnt mean itll be there longer. EQ is typically undeclynate ester.

DatBTrue, where did you get those charts?
 
pistonpump said:
if your EQ is actually boldenone enanthate you could stop it with the test. Its the same ester with same clearance and kick in times. Just because its boldenone doesnt mean itll be there longer. EQ is typically undeclynate ester.
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Good catch bro. I just had assumed...

pistonpump said:
DatBTrue, where did you get those charts?
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I made them with "the roid calculator" - A very handy tool that has been around for about ten years and modified at various times. The algorithm has been verfied so it is fairly accurate.

The only problem with it is the script that allows you to change the cycle length doesn't work...it is stuck at 8 weeks. That means you have to calculate your cycle in chunks if the doses change throughout.

Link: Invalid Link Removed
 
datBtrue said:
Good catch bro. I just had assumed...



I made them with "the roid calculator" - A very handy tool that has been around for about ten years and modified at various times. The algorithm has been verfied so it is fairly accurate.

The only problem with it is the script that allows you to change the cycle length doesn't work...it is stuck at 8 weeks. That means you have to calculate your cycle in chunks if the doses change throughout.

Link: Invalid Link Removed
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thanks. i know of the roidcalc but i didnt remember seeing charts like that...

Also ive never seen boldenone enanthate before......:think:
 
pistonpump said:
thanks. i know of the roidcalc but i didnt remember seeing charts like that...
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It has a button "view diagram" which converts your numbers into a chart image. However you have to use an image program to take an image of your computer screen cus you can't save the chart otherwise.

pistonpump said:
Also ive never seen boldenone enanthate before......:think:
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Yeah I've seen it listed on pwdr lists & some UG Labs pre-Raw Deal. Sigh :whiner:
 
thanks for all the help and info bro's acutally i just checked. Its bold undeclynate. My mistake. just a little brain moment there.
 
Dose vs. Duration

If one had the choice of say 50mg/day for 8 weeks vs. 75mg's for 6 weeks, which would you pick? Is duration more important than dose? I just picked those #'s off the top of my head, but figgured they'd be close if one had a limited amount of tren a.
 
RedwolfWV said:
If one had the choice of say 50mg/day for 8 weeks vs. 75mg's for 6 weeks, which would you pick? Is duration more important than dose? I just picked those #'s off the top of my head, but figgured they'd be close if one had a limited amount of tren a.
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good question. i always wondered how long was the minimum length of time on tren ace to utilize the compound...would it be even worth it to say 4 weeks is okay for example?
 
pistonpump said:
good question. i always wondered how long was the minimum length of time on tren ace to utilize the compound...would it be even worth it to say 4 weeks is okay for example?
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I would be interested to know as well. I've heard 6-10 weeks being a popular cycle length.
 
Check out the bros on gotfina.com all u ever need to know about that awesome substance called fina. I love the Fina my cows love the fina. In fact we all should try Fina.:twisted:
 
meanfarmer said:
Check out the bros on gotfina.com all u ever need to know about that awesome substance called fina. I love the Fina my cows love the fina. In fact we all should try Fina.:twisted:
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Lol, yeah they do know their fina over there.

The most common cycle lengths I have seen are around 6-8 weeks. One guy I know of mentioned using it for 20 weeks....with is a bit :fool2:
 
I've done one cycle with tren:

Test Prop : 14 weeks @ 200mg ED
Tren acetate: 10 weeks @ 50mg ED

I HATED tren. The sides were horrible, and the strength gains were not that good for me. I've never had such insomnia in my life. If I didn't take diphenhydramine every night, I wasn't able to fall asleep. However, when I dropped the tren, I've never felt so good in my life; 1.4g of TP a week was yummy.
 
Tren at 50mg ED is very gentle on my friend. He reports almost no sides. Even seems to be friendlier than normal. Minor night sweats occasionally. 75mg is about the same. 100mg and some insomnia kicks in and more night sweats. So, he keeps it between 50-75mgs.

One thing of note. He does seem to go hypo occasionally in the evenings, even when eating a carb rich diet. He has not figured out why, just keeps some simple sugars on hand.
 
RedwolfWV said:
One thing of note. He does seem to go hypo occasionally in the evenings, even when eating a carb rich diet. He has not figured out why, just keeps some simple sugars on hand.
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I had the same problem, esspically after working out and shortly after waking.
 
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