Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag

[jimbuick]

Keep in mind, I'm not asking if this is what you believe. Only if it is possible.


Is it also possible that a stand down order was never given? How many people that were in that room are saying he gave one? 1? 2?

Is it also possible that a stand down order was given so as not to have U.S. forces kill 100s of American citizens (who unfortunately lost their lives anyway).

 

[fightbackhxc]

Keep in mind, I'm not asking if this is what you believe. Only if it is possible.

Is it also possible that a stand down order was never given? How many people that were in that room are saying he gave one? 1? 2?

Is it also possible that a stand down order was given so as not to have U.S. forces kill 100s of American citizens (who unfortunately lost their lives anyway).

I think what ax1 and myself are getting at is that at a bare minimum the official narrative is totally made up.

 

[jimbuick]

I think what ax1 and myself are getting at is that at a bare minimum the official narrative is totally made up.

How? Because you can find fault with certain parts of it?

 

[fightbackhxc]

How? Because you can find fault with certain parts of it?

No because certain congressmen have essentially said the same thing.

 

[jimbuick]

No because certain congressmen have essentially said the same thing.

How many?

If you believe the congressman who aren't saying that are lying to suit their agenda, who's to say that the ones who are saying it aren't lying for their own agenda?

 

[ax1]

Keep in mind, I'm not asking if this is what you believe. Only if it is possible.


Is it also possible that a stand down order was never given? How many people that were in that room are saying he gave one? 1? 2?

Is it also possible that a stand down order was given so as not to have U.S. forces kill 100s of American citizens (who unfortunately lost their lives anyway).

I think its good to ask these questions since its hard to truly confirm what happened that day.

In regards to that room, we just have the Secretary of Transportation's testimony on record (just not in the book).

What I want from the Pentagon incident is for them to finally release all the surveillance footage. Initially they kept all of it, but after a hard fight they finally released 1 short grainy multiple frame video of the crash. We need to keep fighting to all the video's out as the Pentagon is loaded with surveillance cameras. As a bonus release the blackbox tape.

Also would like to know where our 2.3 trillion went that Rumsfeld announced was missing on television just the day before, as somehow the area of the Pentagon that was hit held all the data retaining that information. Ever since 9/11 2.3 trillion hasnt come up again to the best of my knowledge.

Major General Albert Stubblebine who is now retired but had the responsibility of all the army's strategic intelligence globally has come out publicly that the Pentagon wasnt even hit with a plane, he gets into some details but one significant one is that there are no wing marks on the building. We also have a whistleblower from the military who walked out of the hole and did not see any evidence of a plane crash.

I dont know why they would give a standown order so we didnt kill passengers when they were going to crash and die anyways and add in damage to the Pentagon as well as killing people inside of it. Possible yes, fair to throw human misjudgment in there but I cant buy it to be honest.

 

[ax1]

How many?

If you believe the congressman who aren't saying that are lying to suit their agenda, who's to say that the ones who are saying it aren't lying for their own agenda?

3 to be specific and this is on 28 classified pages. This is the story about it to keep this post short and if you wanted to look further into that. Invalid Link Removed

 

[jimbuick]

I appreciate the link, but no I don't care to look much further into any of it.

My point is that you guys are making these wild accusations with no solid evidence, nothing but conjecture and hearsay. Yet you spread it as if it is fact.

Sure, there are some things about 9/11 that don't quite match up. This holds true for every incident in the world for the history of mankind. This can be attributed to tons of things, and it doesn't necessarily mean there is a conspiracy at work every time.

It could be as simple as someone not remembering the events correctly, it isn't like its that hard to forget specific events during a time of great stress.

I am only attempting to point out that if I can offer up a reasonable explanation for most of the issues you all bring up, and you can not dispute them with fact, then you have no true ground to stand on when making your argument.

 

[ax1]

I appreciate the link, but no I don't care to look much further into any of it.

My point is that you guys are making these wild accusations with no solid evidence, nothing but conjecture and hearsay. Yet you spread it as if it is fact.

Sure, there are some things about 9/11 that don't quite match up. This holds true for every incident in the world for the history of mankind. This can be attributed to tons of things, and it doesn't necessarily mean there is a conspiracy at work every time.

It could be as simple as someone not remembering the events correctly, it isn't like its that hard to forget specific events during a time of great stress.

I am only attempting to point out that if I can offer up a reasonable explanation for most of the issues you all bring up, and you can not dispute them with fact, then you have no true ground to stand on when making your argument.

There are limitations to an online discussion forum, I dont know what else your looking for but you wont get it here. Maybe perhaps you can attend a Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth event or at least at minimum go to their website and do your own independent research and look at the other side of the story.

History is a fun topic to debate, I love it.

If you dont consider any of the evidence/topics presented in this thread as eye opening, and not interested in doing your own research (which is what I really want people to do,) this thread is honestly not your cup of tea. Unless you want to debate all day which is fun.

 

[ax1]

I am only attempting to point out that if I can offer up a reasonable explanation for most of the issues you all bring up, and you can not dispute them with fact, then you have no true ground to stand on when making your argument.

Does it at least disturb you that you found out the goverment tried to pull this off before when they wanted to blow up cities in the USA and shoot people on the streets just to justify war with Cuba with only Kennedy getting in the way? Does it disturb you the entire Vietnam war also was started on a false flag operation?

 

[jimbuick]

Does it at least disturb you that you found out the goverment tried to pull this off before when they wanted to blow up cities in the USA and shoot people on the streets just to justify war with Cuba with only Kennedy getting in the way? Does it disturb you the entire Vietnam war also was started on a false flag operation?

Did they blow up those cities? No. Then it doesn't really matter, does it? There are all kinds of stupid proposals that will come across the presidents desk, this isn't new, and this isn't something that only happens in America. Welcome to every government since the dawn of time.

Again with the claims, where is the proof? (And not some hearsay that some random member of the bureaucracy said one time for whatever reason)

 

[ax1]

Did they blow up those cities? No. Then it doesn't really matter, does it? There are all kinds of stupid proposals that will come across the presidents desk, this isn't new, and this isn't something that only happens in America. Welcome to every government since the dawn of time.

Again with the claims, where is the proof? (And not some hearsay that some random member of the bureaucracy said one time for whatever reason)

It completely matters because it shows how elements of our own goverment will go as far to kill its own citizens. 1962 and Vietnam war was not that long ago. Operation Northwoods went as far as the Joint Chief of staff, they signed and approved it. It went on Kennedy's desk.

Did we lose 60,000 troops and over a million asians over a war that was staged on a false flag attack (Gulf of Tonkin)...yes, does that matter, yes.

If you want proof read Operation Northwoods (I posted a part of that one on the previous page) and The Gulf of Tonkin incident which is unclassified by our own goverment over the last decade. Being that you seem to just go along with official stories I think these two work well for you. Or your just simply going to pass again?

 

[fightbackhxc]

It completely matters because it shows how elements of our own goverment will go as far to kill its own citizens. 1962 and Vietnam war was not that long ago. Operation Northwoods went as far as the Joint Chief of staff, they signed and approved it. It went on Kennedy's desk.

Did we lose 60,000 troops and over a million asians over a war that was staged on a false flag attack (Gulf of Tonkin)...yes, does that matter, yes.

If you want proof read Operation Northwoods (I posted a part of that one on the previous page) and The Gulf of Tonkin incident which is unclassified by our own goverment over the last decade. Being that you seem to just go along with official stories I think these two work well for you.

Ax we should completely just disregard inaccuracies and let the government do whatever they want. Don't question anything.

 

[ax1]

Ax we should completely just disregard inaccuracies and let the government do whatever they want. Don't question anything.

I know, Im just a right winger tin foiled conspiracy theorist, I cling on to my guns and religion and worry about goverment too much as Im waiting for Obamacare to write my name on their death panel.

Ill tell you what, and I will only tell you the truth from here on.

Paper is indestructible it is a fact.

Not only can it fly threw jet fuel outperforming indestructible black boxes, but it also can withstand direct impact of the Hiroshima bomb, I know its the truth because thats what my goverment proved to me on 9/11.

Im going to provide proof paper is indestructible because goverment provided the general public with this below to prove it, so there!!!!
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[fightbackhxc]

I know, Im just a right winger tin foiled conspiracy theorist, I cling on to my guns and religion and worry about goverment too much as Im waiting for Obamacare to write my name on their death panel.

Ill tell you what, and I will only tell you the truth from here on.

Paper is indestructible it is a fact.

Not only can it fly threw jet fuel outperforming indestructible black boxes, but it also can withstand direct impact of the Hiroshima bomb, I know its the truth because thats what my goverment proved to me on 9/11.

Im going to provide proof paper is indestructible because goverment provided the general public with this below to prove it, so there!!!!

Your so racist.

 

[ax1]

Your so racist.

Whatever you do, promise me you wont go to the Authors and Bookkeepers for Paper Truth website who dispute the results of official investigations into the Indestructible Paper Passport Incident on 9/11. Its just a bunch of tin foiled amateur writers and grade school librarians that got laid off and have no jobs.

 

[jimbuick]

It completely matters because it shows how elements of our own goverment will go as far to kill its own citizens. 1962 and Vietnam war was not that long ago. Operation Northwoods went as far as the Joint Chief of staff, they signed and approved it. It went on Kennedy's desk.

Did we lose 60,000 troops and over a million asians over a war that was staged on a false flag attack (Gulf of Tonkin)...yes, does that matter, yes.

If you want proof read Operation Northwoods (I posted a part of that one on the previous page) and The Gulf of Tonkin incident which is unclassified by our own goverment over the last decade. Being that you seem to just go along with official stories I think these two work well for you.

I read the declassified material you posted, and my original question still stands. Did it happen or not? I don't recall reading about the time Cuba destroyed the city of Chicago, so I'm guessing it didn't.

I could not care less if it made it to the Presidents desk or not, I only care if the operation happened and since it didn't then it is irrelevant.

If you can legitimately prove (with facts, not by cherry picking who's story you believe) that these events were false flag operations then there would be no debate. But the fact of the matter is that you cannot, and everything you are posting is merely conjecture that is being spread as if it is fact.

Ax we should completely just disregard inaccuracies and let the government do whatever they want. Don't question anything.

Did anyone say that? Do you have anything of worth to add?

 

[ax1]

If you can legitimately prove (with facts, not by cherry picking who's story you believe) that these events were false flag operations then there would be no debate. But the fact of the matter is that you cannot, and everything you are posting is merely conjecture that is being spread as if it is fact.

Im not trying to post everything as fact, who told you that?

Investigating and questioning official goverment stories shouldnt be about coming to a conclusive end. The best thing that can happen is we keep fighting for more transparency, but that comes with information and awareness. Most of the info posted here isnt discussed/shown in mainstream the reason the internet is so special to build on this awareness.

 

[ax1]

Did anyone say that? Do you have anything of worth to add?

He is just having some fun, no need to make this thread all negative. Have some fun. This is a tell all say all thread, talk about and rant about anything you want. Right now Im watching Arizona vs. Carolina. Im kind of rooting for Cam Newton. What are you doing tonight? Have you tried any good supplements lately?

 

[ax1]

He is just having some fun, no need to make this thread all negative. This is a tell all say all thread, talk about and rant about anything you want. Right now Im watching Arizona vs. Carolina. Im kind of rooting for Cam Newton. What are you doing tonight? Have you tried any good supplements lately?

Ill add, Im watching the game and posting in this thread with my tinfoil hat on with my pet cat Diana-drol.

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[fightbackhxc]

He is just having some fun, no need to make this thread all negative. This is a tell all say all thread, talk about and rant about anything you want. Right now Im watching Arizona vs. Carolina. Im kind of rooting for Cam Newton. What are you doing tonight? Have you tried any good supplements lately?

Rooting for the Panthers as well.

 

[ax1]

Rooting for the Panthers as well.

Still hoping Arizona can make a quick score and at least making some drama in the final 3. Game sorta boring at this point. Give me a quick score and an onside kick!

OMG Carolina just fumbled the punt snap, lol Looks like good field for Arizona.

 

[hardwork25]

I appreciate the link, but no I don't care to look much further into any of it. My point is that you guys are making these wild accusations with no solid evidence, nothing but conjecture and hearsay. Yet you spread it as if it is fact. Sure, there are some things about 9/11 that don't quite match up. This holds true for every incident in the world for the history of mankind. This can be attributed to tons of things, and it doesn't necessarily mean there is a conspiracy at work every time. It could be as simple as someone not remembering the events correctly, it isn't like its that hard to forget specific events during a time of great stress. I am only attempting to point out that if I can offer up a reasonable explanation for most of the issues you all bring up, and you can not dispute them with fact, then you have no true ground to stand on when making your argument.

This is my EXACT POINT! If you want to spread is hearsay or conspiracy then please do so. That's why I've posted Google links to dispute some of your points because much of those actually contain facts.

Also I'm sure there are more than a few things that don't match up, well because how could everything line up on a day where thousands of our citizens were killed, and commercial planes were flown into buildings?

 

[ax1]

This is my EXACT POINT! If you want to spread is hearsay or conspiracy then please do so. That's why I've posted Google links to dispute some of your points because much of those actually contain facts.

Also I'm sure there are more than a few things that don't match up, well because how could everything line up on a day where thousands of our citizens were killed, and commercial planes were flown into buildings?

How do you know they were all airplanes? Can you give me a google link to a clear video to the Pentagon crash? They have alot of video of that from multiple angles you know, and multiple directions from multiple areas. This is an indisputable fact at the most heavily guarded and surveilled area on the planet. I dont wanna see that 5 frame clip either. Im sure you can find it since they force feed the population with the WTC crash over and over again.

 

[ax1]

How do you know they were all airplanes? Can you give me a google link to a clear video to the Pentagon crash? They have alot of video of that from multiple angles you know, and multiple directions from multiple areas. This is an indisputable fact at the most heavily guarded and surveilled area on the planet. I dont wanna see that 5 frame clip either. Im sure you can find it since they force feed the population with the WTC crash over and over again.

What may have caused the explosion to be a different color than the WTC crash? Do commercial airlines use different fuel, like unleaded and diesel? Maybe the pilot added some STP fuel cleaner before takeoff?

(note: This is all the video the pentagon has? lol)
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[jimbuick]

How do you know they were all airplanes? Can you give me a google link to a clear video to the Pentagon crash? They have alot of video of that from multiple angles you know, and multiple directions from multiple areas. This is an indisputable fact at the most heavily guarded and surveilled area on the planet. I dont wanna see that 5 frame clip either. Im sure you can find it since they force feed the population with the WTC crash over and over again.

Can you give me a google link to a video showing it wasn't an airplane?

 

[ax1]

Can you give me a google link to a video showing it wasn't an airplane?

You have to look at it scientifically. First off there is no blackbox, so they claim. Second, they are withholding video's which is the the point to fight for more transparency. Then you have to have an analysis of the photo's that were provided which dont resemble evidence of a plane crash other than a scrap here and there. 4th, the maneuverability of the airplane requires extreme skill that an amateur pilot with no training in a huge airplane is not capable of. Even the directer of the school of the supposed hijacker said the maneuver was impossible.

 

[ax1]

Can you give me a google link to a video showing it wasn't an airplane?

Which is a great question because nobody knows what hit the Pentagon.

 

[ax1]

Just a flashback, and goodnight folks!

Owner Larry Silverstein stating on PBS that he made the call to pull the building.



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[hardwork25]

You have to look at it scientifically. First off there is no blackbox, so they claim. Second, they are withholding video's which is the the point to fight for more transparency. Then you have to have an analysis of the photo's that were provided which dont resemble evidence of a plane crash other than a scrap here and there. 4th, the maneuverability of the airplane requires extreme skill that an amateur pilot with no training in a huge airplane is not capable of. Even the directer of the school of the supposed hijacker said the maneuver was impossible.

Well there is this which is all based on science and math.


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[thebigt]

Well there is this which is all based on science and math.


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while it is true that math and science don't lie, it is also true that the people who do the math and science often do....

 

[jimbuick]

while it is true that math and science don't lie, it is also true that the people who do the math and science often do....

Its strange to me that you say this, not because its untrue, or even because its out of character for you (it is a common theme in your posting, which I certainly can't fault you for)

Really, the strange part is that you never seem to bring up the possibility of the people quoted or the information linked being false, except when it corroborates the 'official' story. Is it impossible to believe that the people claiming our government planned it are the ones that are lying?

 

[thebigt]

Its strange to me that you say this, not because its untrue, or even because its out of character for you (it is a common theme in your posting, which I certainly can't fault you for)

Really, the strange part is that you never seem to bring up the possibility of the people quoted or the information linked being false, except when it corroborates the 'official' story. Is it impossible to believe that the people claiming our government planned it are the ones that are lying?

lol...it is not strange to me for you to post this!!! you have a history of disagreeing with me, is it impossible to believe i might be right and you be wrong?

 

[jimbuick]

lol...it is not strange to me for you to post this!!! you have a history of disagreeing with me, is it impossible to believe i might be right and you be wrong?

While it is true that my opinion differs from yours in a lot of ways, that really doesn't have much to do with this.

You are always talking about how people lie, and unfortunately it's true people lie all the time. But, for whatever reason, in this thread you seem to only believe the people that back the official story are lying.

Which is certainly your right, but it doesn't seem to be any sort of evidence that leads to this. So it just seems strange that you would so strongly support certain members of the government with no evidence but wouldn't support other members of the government.

 

[hardwork25]

Its strange to me that you say this, not because its untrue, or even because its out of character for you (it is a common theme in your posting, which I certainly can't fault you for) Really, the strange part is that you never seem to bring up the possibility of the people quoted or the information linked being false, except when it corroborates the 'official' story. Is it impossible to believe that the people claiming our government planned it are the ones that are lying?

This is the common theme that all conspiracy theorist's share. If it doesn't corroborate their version of the story it must be hogwash, lies, and illogical.

 

[thebigt]

While it is true that my opinion differs from yours in a lot of ways, that really doesn't have much to do with this.

You are always talking about how people lie, and unfortunately it's true people lie all the time. But, for whatever reason, in this thread you seem to only believe the people that back the official story are lying.

Which is certainly your right, but it doesn't seem to be any sort of evidence that leads to this. So it just seems strange that you would so strongly support certain members of the government with no evidence but wouldn't support other members of the government.

i am flattered that you are so concerned with what i think, thank you!!!

 

[ax1]

Well there is this which is all based on science and math.


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There is alot of evidence and science lacking on that website about the Pentagon that I have run into over the years that is missing on that website. For example, and Ill just post one to keep my posts short, how is it possible that a amateur pilot can maneuver the plane in such as complicated fashion when his own flight school director confirmed it was impossible to do so. And you know your still posting "theories" as to what happened that day, right?

You can look at that stuff, but there is far more evidence and material to consider by other professionals.

I wish the mysterious website your posting (who is it by and why I cant find it) had a working link up so I can check the source.

 

[ax1]

i am flattered that you are so concerned with what i think, thank you!!!

Its always going to be about you, your psychology, and not specifically the topic. "Such as, scientist discovered nano-thermite at the WTC site, yet NIST didnt check for explosives." Response: You believe anything that confirms your biases.

Or, "Transportation Secretary's testimony said Cheney held a standown order as the plane approached the pentagon from 50 miles out until impact".....Response, "You did not provide any evidence to prove anything."

Or Larry Silvertein admitted on PBS he called the shot to take the building down, Response: I can make up stories too!

 

[ax1]

This is the common theme that all conspiracy theorist's share. If it doesn't corroborate their version of the story it must be hogwash, lies, and illogical.

And your issue is that its sooo personally so illogical to you, you refuse to even at minimum contemplate professionals from many fields such a military to the scientists that also question the official story. I try to post legitimate material to consider, and all I hear from you is "conspiracy this or conspiracy that, google this and that, blah blah you wear a tin foil." Thats not right.

For example, I can post this link from the" Pilots for 9/11 truth" website that has a scientific look at the event and provides their version of theories and evidence to support the claim in regards to the Pentagon incident and flight 77.
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Then you start looking who made the website, who supports and funds it and take it from there. Here for example I found a list of the supporters.
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I will copy and past some from the list with full details of their backgrounds.

But somehow some way, I know none of this matters to you and you will totally reject it without reason other than you found a google link with bitty info.

Make it about who backs and is behind the info, not what some dude on a bodybuilding forum supports because Im really nothing.

Acronyms
TT = Total [Flight] Time
CA = Captain
FO = First Officer
FE = Flight Engineer
CFI = Certified Flight Instructor
II = Instrument Instructor
MEI = Multiengine Instructor
ASEL = Airplane Single Engine Land
ATP = Airline Transport Pilot
A&P = Aircraft And Powerplant Mechanic



CORE MEMBERS LISTED IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY JOINED.
LIST UPDATED REGULARLY.

Robert Balsamo
4000TT Commercial, Instrument, Multi, CFI II MEI
Corporate Chief Pilot
135 Capt
121 FO Independence Air/Atlantic Coast Airlines
King Air C-90/200, Dornier 328JET

Captain Russ Wittenberg (ret)
30,000+ Total Flight Time
707, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC-8, L-1049, Learjet 24/25, L-188
Ground Instructor, Advanced Ground Instructor, Instrument Instructor, Flight Engineer Turbojet
Aircraft Dispatcher
Pan Am, United
United States Air Force (ret)
Over 100 Combat Missions Flown
Command time in:
- N591UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 93)
- N612UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 175)

Captain Ross Aimer
United Airlines, Retired
B-777/767/757/747/737/727/720/707, DC-10/-9/-8 Type ratings
Command time in:
- N591UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 93)
- N612UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 175)

Commander Ralph “Rotten” Kolstad
23,000 hours
27 years in the airlines
B757/767 for 13 years mostly international Captain with American Airlines.
20 years US Navy flying fighters off aircraft carriers, TopGun twice
civilian pilot flying gliders, light airplanes and warbirds
Command time in:
- N644AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 77)
- N334AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 11)

John Lear
Son of Bill Lear
(Founder, creator of the Lear Jet Corporation)
More than 40 years of Flying
19,000+ TT
23 Type ratings
Flight experience includes 707, DC-8, 727, L10-11

Jeff Latas
-Over 20 years in the USAF
--USAF Accident investigation Board President
--Aeronautical Engineer
--Flew the F-111, T38, and F-15E
--Combat experience in the F-15E includes Desert Storm and four tours of duty in Northern and Southern Watch
--Weapons Requirements Officer, USAF HQ, Pentagon
--Standard and Evaluations Flight Examiner, Command level
-Currently Captain for JetBlue Airways

Guy S. Razer, LtCol, USAF (Ret)
3,500+ Hours Total Flight Time
F-15E/C, F-111A/D/E/F/EF, F-16, F-18, B-1, Mig-29, SU-22, T-37/38, Various Cvilian Prop
Combat Time: Operation Northern Watch
USAF Fighter Weapons School Instructor
NATO Tactical Leadership Program Instructor/Mission Coordinator
USAF Material Command Weapons Development Test Pilot
Combat Support Coordination Team 2 Airpower Coordinator, South Korea
All Service Combat Identification Evaluation Team Operations Officer
Boeing F-22 Pilot Instructor
MS Aeronautical Studies, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University

Dwain Deets
MS Physics, MS Eng
Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center
Served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden
Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award
Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988)
Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics
Associate Fellow - American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA)
Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000
Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems
- Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers
Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology
37 year NASA career

Lt. Colonel Shelton F. Lankford
United States Marine Corps (ret)
A-4 Skyhawk, KC-130 (10,000+ Hours)
S-2, T-1, F9F, F-11, OV-10, T-2J
303 Combat Missions

Captain Paul A. Trood
B737-800/400 Captain
Qantas Airways
Australia
Experience: 18,000 flight hours

Jim Mustanich
ATP 20,000+ hours
Typed in CE-500, DHC-7, EMB-110, BA-3100
Aircraft flown include Boeing 727,737, Douglas DC-9, MD-80
United Air Lines, American International Airlines, Air Pacific Airlines, West Air Airlines
6-7 years corporate flying in Cessna Citations
Factory demo pilot for Cessna Citations

Ted Muga
Naval Aviator - Retired Commander, USNR
A/C experience - Grumman E-1 and E-2 ( Approx, 3800 hours )
Pan American World Airways - Retired Dec. 1991 ( that's when PanAM went bankrupt )
Flight Engineer/First Officer -- Boeing 707 & Boeing 727 ( approx. 7500 hours )

Col Robert Bowman
President of the Institute for Space and Security Studies
Executive Vice President of Millennium III Corporation
retired Presiding Archbishop of the United Catholic Church
101 combat missions in Vietnam
directed all the “Star Wars” programs under Presidents Ford and Carter
recipient of the Eisenhower Medal
George F. Kennan Peace Prize
President’s Medal of Veterans for Peace
Society of Military Engineers' ROTC Award of Merit (twice)
Six Air Medals
Ph.D. is in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering from Caltech
chaired 8 major international conferences
one of the country’s foremost experts on National Security
independent candidate for President of the US in 2000
Invalid Link Removed

John Panarelli
friend and fellow aviator of John Ogonowski - Capt. AA #11
ATP: L-300, B-737, DC-10, DC-8, FE, TT=approx. 11,000 hours
USAF-C141-IP, Eastern Metro, Braniff, Ryan International, Emery
Worldwide, Polar Air Cargo


"DG"
10,000TT
Chief Pilot of Casino Express airlines
Director of Operations Training at Polar Air
Cargo, and Asst. Chief Pilot for Presidential Air
Manager of Flying for Eastern Airlines
Falcon 900 and a G-200
Check Captain
B737,A300, Da-50, G-200 and C-500
FE, A&P.

Dennis Spear
Army Aviator
20+ years - United States Army
7000 TT in a variety of fixed and rotary wing aircraft
C-23, C-7, U-21,U-8, T-39, EH-60, UH-60, UH-1, OH-58
Instrument Flight Examiner, Fixed Wing Instructor Pilot, H-60
Maintenance Test Pilot
Operations Officer, Aviation Safety Officer
FAA Commercial Pilot
- ASMEL, Rotorcraft Helicopter, Instrument Airplane/Helicopter

Scott Burley
747-400 First Officer
United Airlines
22 Years

Bill Credle
Aviation Maintenance Technician
American Airlines
17 Years

Tony Ryan
Warrant Officer RAAF (ret)
Former Royal Australian Air Force
Served between 18thFeb1958 and 21March1981
Flight Engineer on C130A, C130E, C130H and B707
Cathay Pacific Airways
L1011 Tristar Flight Engineer, B747-200, B747-300 and B747-200F
10000+ TT FE
Australian Private Pilot License
300 hours on C150, C152, C172, C172RG and Piper Archer aircraft

Alfons Olszewski
Veterans For Truth
Vietnam Veteran
Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief
MOS: 67V20
qualified on Cobras, Hueys, and Loch Helicopters

George Nelson
Colonel USAF (Ret.)
30 year career managing aircraft maintenance activities
Licensed commercial pilot
Licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic
Aircraft accident investigator

Larry Patriarca
USN Aviation Structural Mechanic
VAQ 135, EA-6B Squadron, 1983-86
Coordinator for Central Mass 9/11 Truth Alliance
Member of Veterans for 9/11 Truth
Associate Member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth

Captain Steve Nieman
30 year Capt with Horizon Air
Q400

Joel Skousen
USMC Fighter/Attack Pilot (Vietnam Era)
1000+ TT, F-4, A-4, F-9, T-2C, various civilian planes
Commercial Pilot w/ Instrument, multi-engine ratings
EAA and AOPA member

Colonel Michael Harley USAF (ret)
Command pilot
~ 6000 Total Flight Time
T-38,T-33, T-37,T-39, C-47, U-6, Uh-1, C130A, B, E, &
prototype H, Kc-135 and B-52.
26 years commissioned. 34 Years total service USAF Accident Investigator
Instructor Accident Investigation, Embry-Riddle University
Management analyst and IG, simulator instructor,
Instructor Pilot, Standardization Evaluation Pilot,
Chief of Standardization of a Sac Wing equipped with B-52, RC-135 and Kc-135
Flew Cessna 177, Twin Bonanza, Cherokee-6
~200 hours as civilian private pilot
Newspaper columnist for 10 years, now a freelance writer

Mathias Frey
Switzerland
C340, C402
CPL/IR
ATPL “frozen”
500 hrs TT
3000+ hrs on ASTRAS, INTRAS and TOSIM, ATC Simulation
Assistant JAR OPS Transition Air Engiadina
Project Manager Air Alps Aviation

Jeff Dahlstrom
C-141 pilot in the early 70's during the Vietnam era:
2nd AF, 432nd MAWg, 18th Sq, MacGuire AFB, NJ.
Pilot training was class 70-06, at Laughlin AFB, Tx

Joe H. Ferguson
Retired Capt.
30,000TT
5,000 FE
USAF Ret.
T-6, T -28, B-25, B-29, KC-97
Frontier, Continental Airlines
DC - 3, CV 580, B737, MD80, DC10

Bill Reyes
Caravan Pilot for UPS Feeder
Commercial, Instrument,
Multi Engine, Flight Instructor
1500 TT
Ex Lieutenant USN Horn Of Africa/ Persian Gulf 02-03
Aboard USS Nassau (LHA-4)

Capt. Omar Pradhan
U.S. Air Force – AWACS command pilot
Flight Instructor U.S. Air Force Academy
Planes flown: Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS (militarized Boeing 707-320B)
1,900+ hours flight time (350+ hours of combat air time over Afghanistan and Iraq)

Jared Eastley
5000 + TT
Airplane, Single & Multi-Engine Land, CFII, MEI, ATP
SWIV (Metroliner) - Single Pilot
Business Charter and Air Ambulance Pilot

Mike Aybar
Aircraft Maintenance Technician, Crew Chief
American Airlines

"Steven"
Canada ATC (in training)

James Edward Forst
First Officer EMB-145 Trans States Airlines
UND summa cum laude December 2006
Degree in Commercial Aviation and Aviation Management
CFI, CFII, and MEI 65% type CRJ

Hammish Brannan
Former United Kingdom air defense ground enviroment (UKADGE) RADAR technician
Primary and secondary ground radar systems
ATC & airborne systems (including radio) as an instructor for the Ministry of Defence (MOD)

Didier "Jay" Weenen
BAF retired
SIAI SF 260M, Potez Fouga Magister, BA/Do Alpha Jet,
F16A, C130H, C153, C172, C182, L45, various gliders

"Wes"
MD-88 American Airlines

Peter Rapp
Austria
PPL/IFR 950TT
Piper Turbo Arrow, PA32T Saratoga,
Cessna 172, Cessna 182T Garmin1000
Carry out business flights for clients and Co-Pi on Turbine Malibu and Beech90 Kingair.

Erin Myers
600TT
Private Pilot (single engine, land, VFR)
Cessna, Piper, Waco, Pitts, Citabria
R22s and a JetRanger.
Army Aviation 68G (maintenance and repair):
Blackhawk, Apache and OH58.
FAA A&P Mechanic
Experimental Aircraft Builder
1990 KitFox.Lanceair, Glassair, variety of Micro and Ultra lights.

Sean Dulac
Private Pilot
500TT

Christina Merrick
12,000+ TT ATP
A&P, CFIAIM, FE Turbojet
B-727, DC-9, SNJ-5, (T-6)
Navion and Bellanca Viking Current
Advanced Instructing
Consultant for AOPA Legal Attorneys
Eastern Airlines, ValuJet
Fellow Pilot and Friend of Captain Candi Chamberlain Kubeck
ValuJet flight 592, brought down in the Everglades May 1996

Dave Kisor
Former Aviation Electrician
USN / USNR Worked on A-4E/F, TA-4F/J
& A-7B/E ashore and afloat (CV-19, CV-43)
P-3B & C-9B. Back seat TA-4F/J & A-4F NWL
Flight & hangar deck fire fighting qualified
Jumped from UH-1N
BA & MA in Geography
Presently employed US Forest Service
Technician at the Riverside CA Fire Laboratory

Slawomir M. Kozak
Air Traffic Controller
Warsaw International Airport Tower Control Supervisor
On Job Training Unit Chief
Former President of Polish Air Traffic Controllers Association
Former member of Polish Airports State Enterprise Employee’s Council
Member of National Aviation Council
Member of International Aviation English Association
Journalist of aviation magazines
"National Geographic" aviation consultant
Author of Two Books related to 9/11. Currently working on third - Demons Of Extermination
Books Available here

Timothy Young
Comm, Inst, ME, Land & Sea, CFI
Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic
10,000+ Hrs. PIC
Aircraft Owner & Aviation Business Operator for 27 years

Greg Stone
Flight Attendant
American Airlines
LAX-I, 31-years

Michael Herzog
Private Pilot
Multi Engine Rated
1500TT
150, 152, 172, 210, Cherokee 140, Warrior, Twin Aerocommander
Profession : Talk Show Host
Oraclebroadcasting.com


Rodger Herbst
777 and 787 Aeronautics
Flight Controls and Simulation Engineering

Jeff Beck
Commercial, Instrument

Craig Hill
Post Solo Student Pilot
Ran as 9/11 Truth candidate for US Senate for Vermont in 2004 and 2006.
Producer of "Treason Inc"
Founder of the Green Party of Vermont
Helped organize four 9/11 Truth candidates appearing on statewide ballot in Vermont in 2006
Appeared on many televised debates promoting 9/11awareness
Public Appearances -
-C-SPAN2, Called for the arrest and removal of Bush, Cheney and much of DC for treason
-Spoken on 9/11 panels and podiums in many venues around the country, from NYC on several occasions
-9/11 Boston Tea Party at historic Faneuil Hall
-The Alex Jones-organized 9/11 event in LA
-The 2006 event in Chicago
Currently organizing impeachment drives in Vt and around the country to
broaden 9/11 awareness and surreptitiously expose the perps in proposed
congressional hearings in 2007.

Fredrick W. Harvey
Pilot
Silver Star
Bronze Star
Three Purple Hearts
Two Tours in Vietnam

John W. Travis, MD, MPH
Preventive Medicine, (Johns Hopkins)
Founder, first wellness center in US
Retired Pilot

Lisa Long
Private Pilot, Single Engine Land
1978
Invalid Link Removed

Art Carran
Commercial Certificate
Instrument Rating
350 Hours TT
Piper, Beech, and Cessna single-engine aircraft
Professional Engineer, State of Ohio
Aerospace Engineer

Harold Saive
Private Pilot
Single Engine Land

Captain Keith West (ret)
Continental Airlines
20,000 + Total Flight Time
Lear Jet, MD80, 737

Daniel G. Martinez
Blackhawk and Turbine Engine Mech
18 year A&P
L-3 Vertex, Iraq

Pieter Lathuy
Capt A330/A340
Emirates Airline
Ex Belgian Air Force F-16

Adam Shaw
Wingman CAPTENS.fr Aerobatic Airshow team
Former UPI and Washington Post reporter
Author SOUND OF IMPACT "The Legacy of TWA # 514", Viking Press , N.Y(1977)
4500 hrs TT. Aerobatic, Mountain, Seaplane Instructor-Pilot

Gordon Price
36 Yrs Airline
B744 A340, A330, A320, L1011,DC-8, DC-9, Vanguard, Viscount
6 Yrs RCAF - CF-104 F-86

Jacob Moncrief
EMB-145 Captain
ExpressJet Airlines
3000TT

Naomi Watson
Flight Attendant - Delta Airlines
Based Atlanta

James M. Craven
Commerical, Instrument
Ground Instructor (Advanced and Instrument)
Professor of Economics
Chairman Business Division
Clark College in Vancouver, WA.

Captain R Bruce Sinclair
Leduc, Alberta, Canada
44 years flying experience
19,600+ hours
Boeing 727, Boeing 737-100, 200, 300, 400, 500, Airbus A300-B4, Lear 35,
Cessna Citation II, DHC-8, King Air 200, DC-3
Trained as a Performance Engineer at Boeing and instructed performance
on Boeing 727, 737 and Airbus A300B4
Currently flying a executive/medevac Lear 35A

Ron Larsen
ASEL, Commercial, Instrument,
900 hrs TT
PhD in Applied Physics and Materials Science,
Cornell University, 1973.
First licensed in 1968 and fairly active through 1992,
flying Beechcraft, Mooney, Cessna and Piper A/C.
9/11 researcher for several years.
Publisher/Editor of LibertyCalling.com (Invalid Link Removed) since 2002.
Broadcaster since 1950.
Host of the Liberty Calling Beacon live radio program

Richard Rogers
Army Guard
Active duty Air Force in Nov 1982 with a honorable separation in Dec 1992.
70250 administration troop
Retrained into F-16/A-10 integrated avionics systems
Only troop to pass the 5 level upgrade testing (45155)
Shaw AFB, SC or RAF Bentwaters, England

Captain Donald D. Halpenny Retired
Ozark , TWA , and AA

And it continues on and on.
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[ax1]

This is my EXACT POINT! If you want to spread is hearsay or conspiracy then please do so. That's why I've posted Google links to dispute some of your points because much of those actually contain facts.

Also I'm sure there are more than a few things that don't match up, well because how could everything line up on a day where thousands of our citizens were killed, and commercial planes were flown into buildings?

So the sum of my story is that I dont understand why you dont at minimum consider and contemplate certain information, but take the simple route of jumping to conclusions of biased propaganda evidence lacking material from all of the posts I put up over and over again including posts backed by independent professionals from the field including military who also question the official story just like me, who question the very material your posting thats backed by the people being accused.

My Architects and Engineers specific information is backed by 2,300+ professional Architects and Engineers with degrees, who supports your google link, the goverment? The ones being accused of staging the event? You going by Popular Mechanics who have a large contract with the US Military? (Point, goverment connection, material backed by the accused)

Ill tell you right now if there is a large scale independent investigation/commision (not appointed by our goverment, especially by the ones getting accused) Popular Mechanics and all the google links you posted are more than welcome to attend any testimony, scientific debate/discussion and have their side heard.

 

[hardwork25]

There is alot of evidence and science lacking on that website about the Pentagon that I have run into over the years that is missing on that website. For example, and Ill just post one to keep my posts short, how is it possible that a amateur pilot can maneuver the plane in such as complicated fashion when his own flight school director confirmed it was impossible to do so. And you know your still posting "theories" as to what happened that day, right? You can look at that stuff, but there is far more evidence and material to consider by other professionals. I wish the mysterious website your posting (who is it by and why I cant find it) had a working link up so I can check the source.

Again your response of how an amateur pilot could make such a complicated maneuver when a flight school instructor said it was possible is not a fact. It's hearsay. Did you ever think that maybe he got lucky??

And what I posted about the plane that hit the pentagon isn't really a theory. It uses science and math to show how the angle of the plane hit, it uses math to show the distance between the columns and directly related it back and matches the size of the airplane.

And EVEN if that would be considered a theory, it's a much better theory than the theory of some guys saying it was an impossible maneuver.

 

[hardwork25]

You say to make it about who backs the info. That's completely what I'm doing. Science and math back the info that I've presented. For example the first post you linked doesn't have any facts it's ALL questions and conspiracy.

The first paragraph in the link is nothing but agenda pushing garbage. It tried to question and dismiss the fact the the plane and the pilot could have gotten taken over from " a five foot man weighing 100 lbs using a boxcutter." Lol and you're the one telling me I need to see who is backing the info. One sentence into it I could tell the obvious slant in perspective.

Again I'm not saying there isn't plenty of govt. cover up, but I'm basing my opinion on at least some sort of science and not on "what some guy said," or that is wasn't possible because "he was a little guy" type of reason.

Furthermore I'm not dismissing what you're sayin as questions that you present and other presented are not legitimate questions that shouldn't be asked.

 

[ax1]

Again your response of how an amateur pilot could make such a complicated maneuver when a flight school instructor said it was possible is not a fact. It's hearsay. Did you ever think that maybe he got lucky??

And what I posted about the plane that hit the pentagon isn't really a theory. It uses science and math to show how the angle of the plane hit, it uses math to show the distance between the columns and directly related it back and matches the size of the airplane.

And EVEN if that would be considered a theory, it's a much better theory than the theory of some guys saying it was an impossible maneuver.

Thats good, your questioning the story, we have to not only add in the theory if he was lucky but also match up the flight data records with the given flight which is another issue Pilots for 9/11 truth bring about. We can start bringing together the most likely hypothesis with the least likely, being "lucky" so far would be least likely but it all counts.

We are both posting scientific and math theory based on what type of information available to them. Does your source even cover the flight data records in detail like the Pilot's for 9/11 truth do for example?

If the hijackers airline school director's (supported by many other professional pilots that I started sourcing on here) statement about the maneuver being impossible means nothing to you I have nothing to comment on that.

 

[ax1]

You say to make it about who backs the info. That's completely what I'm doing. Science and math back the info that I've presented. For example the first post you linked doesn't have any facts it's ALL questions and conspiracy.

The first paragraph in the link is nothing but agenda pushing garbage. It tried to question and dismiss the fact the the plane and the pilot could have gotten taken over from " a five foot man weighing 100 lbs using a boxcutter." Lol and you're the one telling me I need to see who is backing the info. One sentence into it I could tell the obvious slant in perspective.

Again I'm not saying there isn't plenty of govt. cover up, but I'm basing my opinion on at least some sort of science and not on "what some guy said," or that is wasn't possible because "he was a little guy" type of reason.

Furthermore I'm not dismissing what you're sayin as questions that you present and other presented are not legitimate questions that shouldn't be asked.

Yes yes, and I said I welcome them of course. I dont think everything you post is "garbage."

I welcome a scientific explanation at an investigative panel on how paper passes through jet fuel explosions, how a fire can perfectly collapse a steel structure building, and how metal on cars were toasted 7 blocks away with their rubber still intact.

If you are basing my debate on "what some guy" said your totally ignoring all the scientific analysis that has over and over again been posted here by many experts in the field. Your just cherry picking the weakest parts of my presentation to disregard all the science and expert analysis.

 

[Jiigzz]

Yes yes, and I said I welcome them of course. I dont think everything you post is "garbage."

I welcome a scientific explanation at an investigative panel on how paper passes through jet fuel explosions, how a fire can perfectly collapse a steel structure building, and how metal on cars were toasted 7 blocks away with their rubber still intact.

If you are basing my debate on "what some guy" said your totally ignoring all the scientific analysis that has over and over again been posted here by many experts in the field. Your just cherry picking the weakest parts of my presentation to disregard all the science and expert analysis.

While it does seem unlikely; its not implausible that a passport could have been recovered. In other crash sites personal effects like shoes, photos etc. were found despite the plane they were carried in slamming into ground at 500+mph. Other flammable objects such as a cushion and mail were reportedly found from airlines that crashed into the buildings. Mail, which is also paper, was recovered from a plane that crashed into the building. Can it too be likely that a passport was also recovered? After-all, do we even know where he stored his passport? He checked in with it, but that doesn't mean he kept it on his person. To assume that he did could be the reason this is so hard to believe.

It also begs the question; would whoever you claim planted it be so dumb as to plant something that couldn't have possibly survived an inferno? I mean seriously. If the govt. can think of such a twisted plot as this one, what did they gain by planting something which could not have survived? I find it funny how people assume they can think more logically than the entire CIA on this matter (if they are the ones to have assumed to have planted it). Would an intelligence officer be so dumb as to make such a stupid error? Moreover, the command to plant it would have needed to come from someone higher up which suggests those even higher are stupid.

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I do agree that there are facts that may have been omitted, changed or completely distorted as things like 9/11 could not have happened without a series of unfortunate events occurring in sequence. But just remember that something like this had not been done before, nor do I think that anyone would have anticipated that it could ever happen without someone discovering the plot prior and so all these possibilities may have come to fruition SIMPLY because people did not think it could happen.

 

[ax1]

While it does seem unlikely; its not implausible that a passport could have been recovered. In other crash sites personal effects like shoes, photos etc. were found despite the plane they were carried in slamming into ground at 500+mph. Other flammable objects such as a cushion and mail were reportedly found from airlines that crashed into the buildings. Mail, which is also paper, was recovered from a plane that crashed into the building. Can it too be likely that a passport was also recovered? After-all, do we even know where he stored his passport? He checked in with it, but that doesn't mean he kept it on his person. To assume that he did could be the reason this is so hard to believe.

It also begs the question; would whoever you claim planted it be so dumb as to plant something that couldn't have possibly survived an inferno? I mean seriously. If the govt. can think of such a twisted plot as this one, what did they gain by planting something which could not have survived? I find it funny how people assume they can think more logically than the entire CIA on this matter (if they are the ones to have assumed to have planted it). Would an intelligence officer be so dumb as to make such a stupid error? Moreover, the command to plant it would have needed to come from someone higher up which suggests those even higher are stupid.



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Keep in mind, the passport evidence shouldnt be the main focal point of the 9/11 investigation, but I do think its a valid point and you certainly need to include the possibility that it survived the crash, what survived in all the crashes and have a review of the history of crashes.

I do think there is a difference between planes that have crashed the ground and the ones that crashed into the building that produced massive explosions. However there are many things to be considered and there probably is not a way to come up with a conclusive answer unless you get a whistelblower (who you shouldnt necessarily trust) or some unclassified documents leaking out a specific passport planting incident.

So we have the WTC crash passport looking in good condition, it had to survive the massive jet fuel blast burns between 800-1500 degrees. They could probably run experimental tests using the same material of the passport to see if even if it didnt touch fire, how close can it be from the heat before its is damage and how fast can the passport travel and do some mathematical equations and come up with odds of its survival.

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Now we have the passport recovered from the Pentagon crash, it did produce a fire ball but the crash wasnt far up in the sky, and of course we need to question where the passport was such was it in his pocket or did he happen to lay it out on the dashboard or carry on for example.

The Pentagon passport was severely damaged.
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The Flight 93 crash site looks interesting, as it doesnt look like any other plane crash site Ive seen (so thats a different topic for this post,) but regardless this is the site, and its a big burnt crater
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They recovered the passport from that site and it looks like this,
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Here is a business card, a terrorist headband, and some other things from flight 93 recovered.
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But somehow, there was no identifiable steel titanium engine at the Flight 93 open ground crash site,

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Anyways, the point Im somehow trying to make here is that there are alot of questions to the official story. This post is just a very few of many. Seeing what was recovered, I want the black boxes, thats one of the reasons I post the passport thing to get people thinking about where the blackboxes are. I do not believe all 4 blackboxes are missing, so the fight here would be to pressure the goverment to release the tapes.

Ultimately we are handed down with these exhibits from the goverment and people need to make their own judgment on things.

 

[ax1]

without someone discovering the plot prior and so all these possibilities may have come to fruition SIMPLY because people did not think it could happen.

For this topic, you can look into insider trading stock markets as well as how people were warned not to be in NYC that day or were there and were told to leave beforehand.

 

[Jiigzz]

For this topic, you can look into insider trading stock markets as well as how people were warned not to be in NYC that day or were there and were told to leave beforehand.

Yeah it is a shady shady web thats for sure.

You would think though that your average joe demolition man would have been like "I rigged building 7" because why wouldnt he?

 

[ax1]

Yeah it is a shady shady web thats for sure.

You would think though that your average joe demolition man would have been like "I rigged building 7" because why wouldnt he?

We do know George Bush's brother Marvin Bush principled a security company called Securacom which ran the WTC security up to the day of 9/11 which is something I never seen discussed on the mainstream.

There also is larger amount of documented power outages, evacuations and whole floor shutdowns for weeks prior to 9/11. I would look to verify that and investigate why that is so, as well as look into the history of maintenance of the WTC site to look for abnormal activity should those records even exist anymore.

Again, none of this necessarily proves anything but its all a part of a compilation should you have a real investigation.

 

[Jiigzz]

We do know George Bush's brother Marvin Bush principled a security company called Securacom which ran the WTC security up to the day of 9/11 which is something I never seen discussed on the mainstream.

There also is larger amount of documented power outages, evacuations and whole floor shutdowns for weeks prior to 9/11. I would look to verify that and investigate why that is so, as well as look into the history of maintenance of the WTC site to look for abnormal activity should those records even exist anymore.

Again, none of this necessarily proves anything but its all a part of a compilation should you have a real investigation.

I haven't given it much thought to be completely honest. I will have a look as I do find it quite fascinating if nothing else.