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Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag

EasyEJL said:
you realize that all of that is a facade to drum up support and control the population mentally right?

even they think crazy ahmenajad has been going too far, so they are ripping him up on something unrelated

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its all a much more subtle hidden game. not a conspiracy per se, but what media shows is all propaganda (there and here).

of course it's played out thru the media.
but media can not create anti-semitism or anti western mentalities.

the root of the problem is still there...the propaganda machines just perpetuate it.
 
no doubt, that is why I have never said that either. If you read through my posts you will see that I have strictly stated I dont want to get involved unless I have no other choice. However, the major difference, and where you are incorrect is that the Bilderbergers (or any other silly group) dont come out and say "We support anyone killing Israel and Jews", and then have the potential to build a nuke.

Big difference

no, they just stay quiet about it and do it financially :)
 
of course it's played out thru the media.
but media can not create anti-semitism or anti western mentalities.

the root of the problem is still there...the propaganda machines just perpetuate it.

but the question is really whether the anti semitism is used solely for propaganda or whether it is intended to perform actual actions.
 
Ax, I like you and respect what you say, however the paranoia is a bit over the top. The next connection you are going to make is that since the eagle is in the images (many of them) this all ties back to the Romans (earlier extension of the Byzantine). Hmmm.... ;)

Just kind of curious....what are all these groups after? World domination? 1 world currency? What benefit do all these "secrets" have?

Im not full of paranoia, lol I just like to be informed and inform.

I still have quite a bit or researching to do and understanding the ties...but whats alarming is most all the people in power (politically and wealth) come from these societies and groups, or some way linked to them.

Yes, these are the people are after world domination (and for the most part dominate most of it).

All you have to do is seek what they say and read what they write. The info about the NWO takeover is directly from us.

George Bush Sr. said:
“Out of these troubled times, our objective—a new world order—can emerge. Today, that new world is struggling to be born, a world quite different from the one we have known.”

David Rockefeller said:
"For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."

Henry Kissenger said:
"[The New World Order] cannot happen without U.S. participation, as we are the most
significant single component. Yes, there will be a New World Order, and it will force the United
States to change it's perceptions.
"

Bill Moyers said:
"David Rockefeller is the most conspicuous representative today of the ruling class, a multinational fraternity of men who shape the global economy and manage the flow of its capital. Rockefeller was born to it, and he has made the most of it. But what some critics see as a vast international conspiracy, he considers a circumstance of life and just another day's work... In the world of David Rockefeller it's hard to tell where business ends and politics begins"

Justice Felix Frankfurter US Supreme Court said:
"The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise their power from behind the
scenes."

Professor of History Carroll Quigley said:
"The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is the American Branch of a society which originated in England ... (and) ... believes national boundaries should be obliterated and one-world rule
established."

General Douglas MacArthur said:
"I am concerned for the security of our great nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within."

David Rockefeller in an address to a Trilateral Commission meeting in June of 1991 said:
"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great
publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion
for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if
we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more
sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty
of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the National auto determination
practiced in past centuries"
 
AX, I am familiar with many of those, and the ones from JFK, etc... However, you still did not answer the question. They want world domination? To what end? What happens to the rest of us working class folks? What is the benefit? So their families are the ones that control everything?

Here is my point.......there are hundreds of millions of us, it is going to be difficult to follow through on some grand scheme that is some great secret :rolleyes: without seeing a return to some form of revolution.

I am not denying that there are some insidious folks that have done underhanded things. However, to say that they are going to take everything over is laughable
 
ax1 said:
Feel like going to Northern California to worship a 45 foot owl and do a mock child sacrafice? Nixon, Bush, Kissenger, Eisenhower, Clinton, Schwarzenegger all have and much more...

As Nixon is quoted that he visits time to time, he mentions that "it is the most ***gy (<----gay reference) goddamned thing you can ever imagine"

Maybe Kissinger will dress in drag for you (srs).


We have all these dictators of America openly saying they serve god, and now we have people like Newt Gingrich saying on important matters of policy he looks to god for answers, and Romney..

We have people in that run this country who believe that serve god trying diplomacy with people in other countries who believe they are serving god...its all a big mess and they are all just as bad and all need to be watched.

edit: Just to be clear I have no problems with politicians or people who believe in god, just the ones that run their policy decisions that "talk to god"

what is the name of that first part again? I remember watching some clips on the rituals and stuff. sick.

and absolutely, people will use their god to advance politically.

overall I don't know if it's even possible to stop the global one world govt/currency agenda.
 
AX, I am familiar with many of those, and the ones from JFK, etc... However, you still did not answer the question. They want world domination? To what end? What happens to the rest of us working class folks?

Here is my point.......there are hundreds of millions of us, it is going to be difficult to follow through on some grand scheme that is some great secret :rolleyes: without seeing a return to some form of revolution.

I am not denying that there are some insidious folks that have done underhanded things. However, to say that they are going to take everything over is laughable

People are waking up now that the revolution (yes there is a revolution) has hit the information age. These people are totally aware that people are waking up to it and thats the reasoning of the current attemp to take over and attempt to control internet world wide.

Hillary Clinton has openly stated to congress that they are losing the information war to alternative media and media from international countries.
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Will they take over? I never said they will but for the most part they already have.
 
what is the name of that first part again? I remember watching some clips on the rituals and stuff. sick.

and absolutely, people will use their god to advance politically.

overall I don't know if it's even possible to stop the global one world govt/currency agenda.

Thats Bohemiam Grove in Northern California.

I gotta find that picture of Kissenger dressed in drag, I think it was in Time magazine or something back in the 80's.
 
People are waking up now that the revolution (yes there is a revolution) has hit the information age. These people are totally aware that people are waking up to it and thats the reasoning of the current attemp to take over and attempt to control internet world wide.

Hillary Clinton has openly stated to congress that they are losing the information war to alternative media and media from international countries.
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Will they take over? I never said they will but for the most part they already have.


again.....to what end? what is the end goal? You seem to be glossing over this
 
Here is my point.......there are hundreds of millions of us, it is going to be difficult to follow through on some grand scheme that is some great secret :rolleyes: without seeing a return to some form of revolution.


"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under
the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist
program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without
knowing how it happened." [TABLE="class: sourcetbl"]
[TR]
[TD]
by:
[/TD]
[TD]
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(1884-1968) six-time U.S. Presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America
[/TD]
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[/TABLE]

sure, if it happened all at once. Instead its the slow slide in that direction, chipping away one piece at a time so nobody notices it till its too late
 
do you feel enslaved?

to a significant extent vs even what it was like just 25 years ago, yes. Even though we have perceptions of added freedoms via technological advances, those in charge of governments have used those same things to place us further under control. Its the slow gradual process of taking away rights and liberties under the guise of needing to protect us. The war on drugs was "for the children", yet what has been its major accomplishment? Making billionaires out of mexican drug lords.

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For all that it has cost has it stopped or even slowed the flow of drugs? But it took away our civil liberties to do what we want to our own bodies so we could "protect the children". There are so many examples of the slow erosion of liberties + freedom that it would take a long time to detail out even just whats been done over the last year.
 
to a significant extent vs even what it was like just 25 years ago, yes. Even though we have perceptions of added freedoms via technological advances, those in charge of governments have used those same things to place us further under control. Its the slow gradual process of taking away rights and liberties under the guise of needing to protect us. The war on drugs was "for the children", yet what has been its major accomplishment? Making billionaires out of mexican drug lords.

Invalid Link Removed

For all that it has cost has it stopped or even slowed the flow of drugs? But it took away our civil liberties to do what we want to our own bodies so we could "protect the children". There are so many examples of the slow erosion of liberties + freedom that it would take a long time to detail out even just whats been done over the last year.

its interesting to me.....I am 35 (almost 36) and I do not feel that way at all. I have lived through the same things you have, and seen certain acts of government erode rights. However, it has never affected me, not in the least. My life is fairly simple, I wake up, work out, go to work, come home, hang out with my family, go to bed, sleep and repeat.

I make a nice living and to be honest, I see none of the issues or "enslavement"
 
its interesting to me.....I am 35 (almost 36) and I do not feel that way at all. I have lived through the same things you have, and seen certain acts of government erode rights. However, it has never affected me, not in the least. My life is fairly simple, I wake up, work out, go to work, come home, hang out with my family, go to bed, sleep and repeat.

I make a nice living and to be honest, I see none of the issues or "enslavement"

You pay income taxes for the fruits of your labor but are conditioned to accept it as a part of life (just like most people are these days) so it doesnt seem to effect your personal awareness of what a free man is all about. Income tax is partial ownership of government of your labor...that is definition of legalized (although income tax should be illegal) slavery so you are in fact 1/4-1/3 a slave.
 
again.....to what end? what is the end goal? You seem to be glossing over this

The end goal is complete control...I thought about giving a long answer but Id have to write books on it.

I dont think there is a "end game" when it comes to power the mountain climb is endless and whatever needs to be done these people will do, and they will keep doing it until they control the entire universe only to by then look for another one.
 
its interesting to me.....I am 35 (almost 36) and I do not feel that way at all. I have lived through the same things you have, and seen certain acts of government erode rights. However, it has never affected me, not in the least. My life is fairly simple, I wake up, work out, go to work, come home, hang out with my family, go to bed, sleep and repeat.

I make a nice living and to be honest, I see none of the issues or "enslavement"

if you stopped having copper in your diet, would you notice that it was lack of copper effecting you or would you just start feeling sick?

As ax1 mentions, the taxation system of punishing the successful and rewarding failures coupled with the entitlement systems perpetual growth and addons has very much so affected you. Its just not as obvious, just like most of the other pieces. When people ask why credit is so tight and "banks are holding onto all that cash" the answer isn't that they are scrooge mcducks playing in piles of money, its that they were not only just burned and crucified for lending money in a way that the US government forced them to but also hammered by tons of additional regulatory requirements that they are hustling trying to stay on top of. Did any of that on any end affect you and take away freedom of choices you would have had otherwise? Absolutely. Its just not an obvious cause and effect, and that is on person.

Did Nixon say the war on drugs was to funnel additional money to law enforcement and the companies that sell to them by contract? Or did Bush say that Medicare Part D was to line the pockets of insurance and pharmaceutical companies while spending your childrens', grandchildrens' and their childrens' future earnings? But those are the largest effects each of those has had.

The very nature of a government operating at a deficit constrains your personal freedom as it establishes a future debt that either you have to pay, or your offspring will.
 
ax1 said:
The end goal is complete control...I thought about giving a long answer but Id have to write books on it.

I dont think there is a "end game" when it comes to power the mountain climb is endless and whatever needs to be done these people will do, and they will keep doing it until they control the entire universe only to by then look for another one.

A process of that magnitude will take many lifetimes, so that means they must put a certain pattern of behavior in their wills for their children etc...? It is very far fetched IMO
 
A process of that magnitude will take many lifetimes, so that means they must put a certain pattern of behavior in their wills for their children etc...? It is very far fetched IMO

Exactly what they have been doing. They want to be in their death beds knowing their children pick up where left off.

You can see that with David Rothschild for example....Prescott, Bush sr then jr. Or just look at history, how the Oligarchy keeps it all in the family, England, Chinese Emperors, etc...

You have to understand their psychology, they are delusional and they really dont care about anything other their their tight inner circles.
 
EasyEJL said:
if you stopped having copper in your diet, would you notice that it was lack of copper effecting you or would you just start feeling sick?

As ax1 mentions, the taxation system of punishing the successful and rewarding failures coupled with the entitlement systems perpetual growth and addons has very much so affected you. Its just not as obvious, just like most of the other pieces. When people ask why credit is so tight and "banks are holding onto all that cash" the answer isn't that they are scrooge mcducks playing in piles of money, its that they were not only just burned and crucified for lending money in a way that the US government forced them to but also hammered by tons of additional regulatory requirements that they are hustling trying to stay on top of. Did any of that on any end affect you and take away freedom of choices you would have had otherwise? Absolutely. Its just not an obvious cause and effect, and that is on person.

Did Nixon say the war on drugs was to funnel additional money to law enforcement and the companies that sell to them by contract? Or did Bush say that Medicare Part D was to line the pockets of insurance and pharmaceutical companies while spending your childrens', grandchildrens' and their childrens' future earnings? But those are the largest effects each of those has had.

The very nature of a government operating at a deficit constrains your personal freedom as it establishes a future debt that either you have to pay, or your offspring will.

I think we are looking at this wrong also. A deficit can be ideal for developed nations at roughly 60%. Granted we are over that, but we are within a reasonably within decent range.

edit: i also have issue with the term entitlements. Things like SS are not entitlements if you have paid $ into them. Just my 2 cents
 
ax1 said:
Exactly what they have been doing. They want to be in their death beds knowing their children pick up where left off.

You can see that with David Rothschild for example....Prescott, Bush sr then jr. Or just look at history, how the Oligarchy keeps it all in the family, England, Chinese Emperors, etc...

You have to understand their psychology, they are delusional and they really dont care about anything other their their tight inner circles.

Royal families (or those in power) have consistently tried to maintain power. This is not new or a conspiracy. Look at history, it has been going on since recorded time.
 
Royal families (or those in power) have consistently tried to maintain power. This is not new or a conspiracy. Look at history, it has been going on since recorded time.

Thats right...we look the history to understand now. There is no reason anyone has changed just because of modernization. The modernization of technology as well as the medical field is now allowing for the potentially finalize on a global level.

In the end they are human and subject to failure, but that is really going to be up to the population to stop...and then only some other group will try to replace them.

Its endless really, we just have to fight to keep things the best they can and in the meantime understand this is all like a dream and the power of happiness is in the mind no matter what these people do.
 
Thats right...we look the history to understand now. There is no reason anyone has changed just because of modernization. The modernization of technology as well as the medical field is now allowing for the potentially finalize on a global level.

In the end they are human and subject to failure, but that is really going to be up to the population to stop...and then only some other group will try to replace them.

Its endless really, we just have to fight to keep things the best they can and in the meantime understand this is all like a dream and the power of happiness is in the mind no matter what these people do.

this is the point. every generation thinks that the ones in power during their lifetimes are the ultimate evil, and as history has shown....that is just not the case. My life and your life will come and go, as will the "elites" and it will be as it has always has been. Little will change.
 
ok, so what the fock is a newt, something you put in a witches caulron....then mitt, is that something you put on because your too much a wuss to get your hands dirty....barrack, sounds like baracks, but that elitist wouldn't be caught dead in one....geezus.....you call these choices?????
 
this is the point. every generation thinks that the ones in power during their lifetimes are the ultimate evil, and as history has shown....that is just not the case. My life and your life will come and go, as will the "elites" and it will be as it has always has been. Little will change.

The significant difference however from whats going on now and the past is what I stated in regards to the technological advances, in electronics, weapons, medical, etc...

This is also a time where the technology exists to re-wire peoples minds (propaganda+technology that lacked in past). There are medical ways to change the mind...one recent example is being how the Chinese were drugging the Falun Gong at re-education camps, or new advanced means of dumbing people down simply drugging the food and water supply.

Population control is being implemented with our new technology and slowly progressing and advancing to new heights, and this is well documented in Obama's science czar John P. Holdren and his book Ecoscience Population Resources Enviorment.

This is a time where we are on a cusp dramatic civilization change (due to technology,) and its possible that in our lifetimes we might not even make it and the world elite will simply blow the planet up in the process of changing from a Type 0 to a Type 1 civilization. We almost blew the planet up in the 60's, this certainly can happen at any given moment.

ok, so what the fock is a newt, something you put in a witches caulron....then mitt, is that something you put on because your too much a wuss to get your hands dirty....barrack, sounds like baracks, but that elitist wouldn't be caught dead in one....geezus.....you call these choices?????

lol
 
I think we are looking at this wrong also. A deficit can be ideal for developed nations at roughly 60%. Granted we are over that, but we are within a reasonably within decent range.

edit: i also have issue with the term entitlements. Things like SS are not entitlements if you have paid $ into them. Just my 2 cents

you are mixing a deficit and debt :) sure a debt level of 60% of GDP is ok, and sustainable so long as the budget is balanced. Eventually it gets paid down at that rate. We on the other hand broke 100% of GDP (which mind you GDP is 8x what the government took in as revenue last year, so the debt to income as it would be looked at if it was you isn't 1:1 but 8:1 which nobody would loan you a donut at) and even the rosiest projection of the next decade without real major changes has the deficit at at least 125% of GDP. The worst case scenarios are more like 170%.

Social security is still an entitlement. Its a forced program, where the amount you put in doesn't correlate very directly with what you get out. As Cain wrote, “It is now evident that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 did not apply to the Social Security system. Due to the rising retirement age, differences in life expectancy between Blacks and Whites, and mandatory payroll tax deductions, the system by its very nature discriminates against black men and women.” He went on to call it “built-in discrimination,” before adding, “Under the current Social Security structure, deceased black men essentially fund a large percentage of the retirement income of elderly white women, since they live the longest to nearly 80 years on average.”

If it were forced investment into a private account that on your death your children inherit, and if you don't earn enough in to pay much in you don't get much out then its not an entitlement. Someone living today, born in 1970 who makes $20k a year works till they are 66, lives till they are 77, and would collect $1063 a month for those 11 years, for a total of $140,000 paid out. in the 46 years they worked even if we go with them and their employer paying in the full 14.5% they still didn't pay in that much. Using real world charts however Invalid Link Removed, their effective TOTAL tax rate would barely have reached 10%, and average is more like 6%. Thats federal tax plus social security. So yes, its an entitlement, you don't get out what you paid in, you get out an amount the government says you deserve.
 
You also have to factor inflation in regards to social security.

The amounts are less meaningful as the years are coming along. My grandmother has paycuts in her SS simply because a dollar bill isnt worth the dollar bill it was just 2 years ago.

I blame much of inflation on goverment and their currecy schemes.
 
You also have to factor inflation in regards to social security.

The amounts are less meaningful as the years are coming along. My grandmother has paycuts in her SS simply because a dollar bill isnt worth the dollar bill it was just 2 years ago.

I blame much of inflation on goverment and their currecy schemes.

you are mixing a deficit and debt :) sure a debt level of 60% of GDP is ok, and sustainable so long as the budget is balanced. Eventually it gets paid down at that rate. We on the other hand broke 100% of GDP (which mind you GDP is 8x what the government took in as revenue last year, so the debt to income as it would be looked at if it was you isn't 1:1 but 8:1 which nobody would loan you a donut at) and even the rosiest projection of the next decade without real major changes has the deficit at at least 125% of GDP. The worst case scenarios are more like 170%.

Social security is still an entitlement. Its a forced program, where the amount you put in doesn't correlate very directly with what you get out. As Cain wrote, “It is now evident that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 did not apply to the Social Security system. Due to the rising retirement age, differences in life expectancy between Blacks and Whites, and mandatory payroll tax deductions, the system by its very nature discriminates against black men and women.” He went on to call it “built-in discrimination,” before adding, “Under the current Social Security structure, deceased black men essentially fund a large percentage of the retirement income of elderly white women, since they live the longest to nearly 80 years on average.”

If it were forced investment into a private account that on your death your children inherit, and if you don't earn enough in to pay much in you don't get much out then its not an entitlement. Someone living today, born in 1970 who makes $20k a year works till they are 66, lives till they are 77, and would collect $1063 a month for those 11 years, for a total of $140,000 paid out. in the 46 years they worked even if we go with them and their employer paying in the full 14.5% they still didn't pay in that much. Using real world charts however Invalid Link Removed, their effective TOTAL tax rate would barely have reached 10%, and average is more like 6%. Thats federal tax plus social security. So yes, its an entitlement, you don't get out what you paid in, you get out an amount the government says you deserve.

The significant difference however from whats going on now and the past is what I stated in regards to the technological advances, in electronics, weapons, medical, etc...

This is also a time where the technology exists to re-wire peoples minds (propaganda+technology that lacked in past). There are medical ways to change the mind...one recent example is being how the Chinese were drugging the Falun Gong at re-education camps, or new advanced means of dumbing people down simply drugging the food and water supply.

Population control is being implemented with our new technology and slowly progressing and advancing to new heights, and this is well documented in Obama's science czar John P. Holdren and his book Ecoscience Population Resources Enviorment.

This is a time where we are on a cusp dramatic civilization change (due to technology,) and its possible that in our lifetimes we might not even make it and the world elite will simply blow the planet up in the process of changing from a Type 0 to a Type 1 civilization. We almost blew the planet up in the 60's, this certainly can happen at any given moment.

after reading through all of this, it is becoming apparent that you both seem to be forgetting a few things that show this is not some great globalist conspiracy. There are most certainly some "bad" people at the top, there always are, but the economy as a tool?

1. Look throughout history (you can as far back as the 18th-19th cent. in US History) at our MANY economic crashes that are far worse then where we are now. Were they part of this globalist agenda? Seems unlikely....in fact, I think the most entry level college or even High School Economics classes would tell you that there is a certain cycle to the economy where it continuously goes up and down. It is the nature of the beast, not some group of reptillian shape shifters ;)
2. Regarding how some have a stranglehold on power....havent groups always been like that? Those with wealth and power are there because they have worked the system in a way that many of us have not. Some of us will forever be workers, our descendants will be workers unless they figure it out. That is the beauty (or ugliness) of the system. I came from a family of uneducated blue collar workers. Due to that, we had squat when I was growing up. However, I knew that I needed advanced degrees in areas where I had a strength to have a chance to be "successful" (subjective to my definition). So that is what I did. I make more now than my parents made combined throughout my childhood. Different mindsets, different times

To blame the ills on a conspiracy takes focus off the true problems imo.
 
after reading through all of this, it is becoming apparent that you both seem to be forgetting a few things that show this is not some great globalist conspiracy. There are most certainly some "bad" people at the top, there always are, but the economy as a tool?

1. Look throughout history (you can as far back as the 18th-19th cent. in US History) at our MANY economic crashes that are far worse then where we are now. Were they part of this globalist agenda? Seems unlikely....in fact, I think the most entry level college or even High School Economics classes would tell you that there is a certain cycle to the economy where it continuously goes up and down. It is the nature of the beast, not some group of reptillian shape shifters ;)
2. Regarding how some have a stranglehold on power....havent groups always been like that? Those with wealth and power are there because they have worked the system in a way that many of us have not. Some of us will forever be workers, our descendants will be workers unless they figure it out. That is the beauty (or ugliness) of the system. I came from a family of uneducated blue collar workers. Due to that, we had squat when I was growing up. However, I knew that I needed advanced degrees in areas where I had a strength to have a chance to be "successful" (subjective to my definition). So that is what I did. I make more now than my parents made combined throughout my childhood. Different mindsets, different times

To blame the ills on a conspiracy takes focus off the true problems imo.

on #1, its quite possible that whether the same groups as today were the one leading to the financial crash that it still was manipulated. In effect as you somewhat allude to in #2, there are always groups and people at the top who mostly want to consolidate and increase their power more than anything else. Economics are an easy way to bend people. Religion used to be :)

And I don't particularly believe there is some large conspiracy between the truly powerful people/families, but since their goals and mechanisms are similar whether they collude or not is irrelevant. And i feel you on the rest, I think I make roughly 3-4x a year what my dad's best year ever was, and my wife + my combine is at least 4x what my parents ever made together (note that given our ridiculous tax code changes lowering taxes perpetually on the middle class, its possible that my parents paid nearly as much in taxes then as I pay now). I grew up on the salvation army clothes and free/reduced price school lunches.

And unrelated to all the rest of what we are talking about, I despise the liberal jackasses who have changed policy on things like the school lunches, food stamps, etc. I used to have to carry a card around, it was red during the spans where we qualified for free lunch, orange during the spans where my family was doing better and it was reduced price. Was there a bit of stigma attached to it and was I somewhat embarrassed? Yep, but that was an extra motivational piece for my life, I hated it, didn't want to live like that, and wasn't going to have my kids live that way. By in the name of fairness or whatever liberal nonsense was used, yet another disincentive for living your life as a serf on government assistance has been removed...
 
on #1, its quite possible that whether the same groups as today were the one leading to the financial crash that it still was manipulated. In effect as you somewhat allude to in #2, there are always groups and people at the top who mostly want to consolidate and increase their power more than anything else. Economics are an easy way to bend people. Religion used to be :)

And I don't particularly believe there is some large conspiracy between the truly powerful people/families, but since their goals and mechanisms are similar whether they collude or not is irrelevant. And i feel you on the rest, I think I make roughly 3-4x a year what my dad's best year ever was, and my wife + my combine is at least 4x what my parents ever made together (note that given our ridiculous tax code changes lowering taxes perpetually on the middle class, its possible that my parents paid nearly as much in taxes then as I pay now). I grew up on the salvation army clothes and free/reduced price school lunches.

And unrelated to all the rest of what we are talking about, I despise the liberal jackasses who have changed policy on things like the school lunches, food stamps, etc. I used to have to carry a card around, it was red during the spans where we qualified for free lunch, orange during the spans where my family was doing better and it was reduced price. Was there a bit of stigma attached to it and was I somewhat embarrassed? Yep, but that was an extra motivational piece for my life, I hated it, didn't want to live like that, and wasn't going to have my kids live that way. By in the name of fairness or whatever liberal nonsense was used, yet another disincentive for living your life as a serf on government assistance has been removed...

economics has become the new religion. Agreed, there is no great cabal, just selfish people who want to retain what they have and who know how to take advantage of the system.

On there other stuff, I agree on the motivation. I can remember my father borrowing $ from me as a teenager, and him taking meat off my sandwich (to his chagrin) just to stretch things out a little more. I knew I didn't want my children to live a life like that. I started working at 10-11 years old in the back of a card store, 48 hours a week off the books all summer, then weekends during the school year. To my father's credit, he constantly told me to be more than him, focus harder, and don't quit. That was my motivation. I was somewhat embarrassed driving his car to school as a senior (after dropping him at work) and the bottom was filled with holes and rust. But...it was an independent ride.
 
Ah the lunch card...lol, I didnt eat a real lunch for 1/4 of the school year because I was to embarrassed to hand in the form and then carry the card around. Eventually I felt the need to eat again since my dads change bin started to vanish I took just enough daily to purchase an ice cream bar.

Different mindsets, different times

To blame the ills on a conspiracy takes focus off the true problems imo.

I know Im right about this, we had a partial audit thanks to Ron Paul and discovered 16 trillion dollars of secret loans that were sent over seas. I cant imagine the number a full audit would bring, one reason the Fed is paranoid about Ron Paul.

There are trillions and trillions of other dollars missing as well within the government, such as the 2.3 trillion Donald Rumsfeld announced that was missing and unaccounted the day before 9/11 and then the missile targeted and hit the computer server that was holding the data the next morning.

Im just warming up but yes, the Federal Reserve is nothing but a big banker ponzi scheme that Thomas Jefferson warned us about as more dangerous than a standing military.
 
Social security is still an entitlement. Its a forced program, where the amount you put in doesn't correlate very directly with what you get out. As Cain wrote, “It is now evident that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 did not apply to the Social Security system. Due to the rising retirement age, differences in life expectancy between Blacks and Whites, and mandatory payroll tax deductions, the system by its very nature discriminates against black men and women.” He went on to call it “built-in discrimination,” before adding, “Under the current Social Security structure, deceased black men essentially fund a large percentage of the retirement income of elderly white women, since they live the longest to nearly 80 years on average.”

Social Security was created because the Federal Reserve had taken hostage of the economic system. In 1913 when the Federal Reserve act was pass, only 3 members of congress were on the floor in which the act only needed a majority to pass it. In 1933 America goes bankrupt, the Federal Reserve system wanted collateral on the debt and Roosevelt just several years later handed the American people as collateral with the Social Security act, as well as the next several generations of children and basically we all have been financially enslaved to the Fed ever since.

These crooks in the Fed pretend to be a part of the government, but they are nothing but a private international central bank full of unelected officials, they meet only in secret, the government has no power to audit them,except for last year partially which 16 trillion in a partial was astonishing.

We can band aid and debate budget cuts of billion here, billion there, cut this cut that but until we deal the issue of the Federal Reserve system and the root of the issues we will never solve any problems in this country...one reason I laugh at people who ask me around here to join the Occupy Wall Street movement since these crooks in the Fed are just laughing at all of them.
 
I know Im right about this, we had a partial audit thanks to Ron Paul and discovered 16 trillion dollars of secret loans that were sent over seas. I cant imagine the number a full audit would bring, one reason the Fed is paranoid about Ron Paul.

There are trillions and trillions of other dollars missing as well within the government, such as the 2.3 trillion Donald Rumsfeld announced that was missing and unaccounted the day before 9/11 and then the missile targeted and hit the computer server that was holding the data the next morning.

Im just warming up but yes, the Federal Reserve is nothing but a big banker ponzi scheme that Thomas Jefferson warned us about as more dangerous than a standing military.

i dont remember ever saying 1 thing relating to the fed. I do agree it is problematic and should be audited. However, you statement does not reflect anything I said
 
i dont remember ever saying 1 thing relating to the fed. I do agree it is problematic and should be audited. However, you statement does not reflect anything I said

I just started sipping my coffee when I posted this morning, lol I think that was more of a rant.

The fed has absolutely had nothing to do with the timeline you were referring too.

The economic crashes of the past are a bit different now...I dunno if if the past there was a currency that was considered a global currency the way the American dollar has been, and now there are issues of digital currency. Globalization of economy and currency is easier to manipulate on a global scale. We have the World Bank and IMF where are working on establishing the Global Government (NWO), global laws (global carbon tax), a new global currency in the works eliminating the American dollar, and finally they are working on eliminating currency all together as a solid currency and making it all digital basically eliminating the black market and having everything traceable. Will this come to fruition? If we let them they will pull it off.

As I mentioned last night, technology has changed everything. We need to look at history and learn from it but we also need to apply what we know of technology and theorize what they could have done in the past with the technologies and the way of life today. This is the age of a scientific dictatorship on a global scale something that wasnt as easily achieved in the past.
 
ax1 said:
I just started sipping my coffee when I posted this morning, lol I think that was more of a rant.

The fed has absolutely had nothing to do with the timeline you were referring too.

The economic crashes of the past are a bit different now...I dunno if if the past there was a currency that was considered a global currency the way the American dollar has been, and now there are issues of digital currency. Globalization of economy and currency is easier to manipulate on a global scale. We have the World Bank and IMF where are working on establishing the Global Government (NWO), global laws (global carbon tax), a new global currency in the works eliminating the American dollar, and finally they are working on eliminating currency all together as a solid currency and making it all digital basically eliminating the black market and having everything traceable. Will this come to fruition? If we let them they will pull it off.

As I mentioned last night, technology has changed everything. We need to look at history and learn from it but we also need to apply what we know of technology and theorize what they could have done in the past with the technologies and the way of life today. This is the age of a scientific dictatorship on a global scale something that wasnt as easily achieved in the past.

Again, I agree the world has changed. However, the grand ideas (hello Newt) vary rarely come to fruition
 
Again, I agree the world has changed. However, the grand ideas (hello Newt) vary rarely come to fruition

Majority of the grand ideas already have, its a little to late say they will "rarely come to fruition" for most of them.

Edit: Fruition cannot even be defined, its going to be a infinite evolving process as long as we are here. There is no plant the flag and win moment. If there was we wont be a part of it anyways, so you will never realize its took place (which would have been false statement in reality anyways.)
 
Ron Paul Warns Of Federal Reserve Power Grab

Kurt Nimmo
February 6, 2012

Not only was Obama’s appointment of Richard Cordray to the misnamed Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) unconstitutional, but the newly minted federal leviathan itself is in direct violation of Constitution, specifically the Tenth Amendment.

Ron Paul's Texas Straight Talk 2/6/12: Trust Us; We're the Government

[video=youtube;VmA8zbJTfyY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded& v=VmA8zbJTfyY[/video]

In January, Obama thumbed his nose at Article 2, Section 2 of the Constitution. It states that the president “shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint” officers to the government.
But as Ron Paul notes in the above video, the new agency – founded under the Invalid Link Removed Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act – is itself an unconstitutional monster that will further degrade the financial health of the country.
Cordray will act as a czar answerable not to the American people, but his masters at the Federal Reserve. Like an EU or Soviet era committee, the CFPB will be run by unelected commissars who will exercise extraordinary power. The agency is part of the Federal Reserve and its budget is not subject to Invalid Link Removed.

On January 4, the agency began to Invalid Link Removed, including debt collection, consumer reporting, prepaid cards, debt relief services, consumer credit and money transmitting, check cashing, and related activities. It claims the authority to supervise any nonbank that it decides may pose a “risk” to consumers or engages in “unfair, deceptive, or abusive” practices.
In other words, the CFPB will micromanage a large sector of the economy and punish supposed violators not based on law, but rather supposition of harm and political priorities.

The CFPB is another bankster scam protected under the cloak of the Federal Reserve. The financial crisis did not result from lack of regulation over consumer financial products and services. The CFPB is simply another power grab by the bankster cartel masquerading as consumer protection.

“Giving impetus to the CFPB’s creation was the poor reputation of Wall Street banks and financial firms that developed as a result of the financial crisis,” Paul explains. “Banks which received trillions of dollars of taxpayer-funded bailouts turned around and shafted their customers by foreclosing on homes, raising credit card interest rates, and introducing numerous new fees.”

“But rather than keeping Wall Street in check as its proponents allege, the CFPB will end up placing further restrictions on the ability of Main Street Americans to engage in productive financial endeavors,” he continues. “Current law already allows only the richest Americans to invest in potentially lucrative ventures such as hedge funds because such investments are deemed to be “too risky” for the average American to invest in. The government in its paternalistic wisdom treats American investors as too stupid to know what to do with their own money, and “protects” them, supposedly, by keeping them poorer than they otherwise would be. We can expect even more of this once the CFPB is running in full stride.”

Not surprisingly, the establishment media has completely ignored this story. It is their job to make sure you don’t find out what the CFPB is all about and demand it be stopped immediately.

If the government really wanted to protect consumers, it would dismantle the Federal Reserve system, reintroduce honest money and break up the criminal bankster cartel.
 
The Death of Dick Cheney - Witness first hand Richard on his Death Bed

(Disclamer to DHS, this is just a satire and I do not wish for Dick Cheney's death)

[video=youtube;WVIrGONcCu4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded& v=WVIrGONcCu4#![/video]
 
Hey man i'm trying to find those links to the story (and pics ) behind the disintegrated cars around NYafter 911...was I dreaming this?? For the life of me I can't find it in this thread
 
Hey man i'm trying to find those links to the story (and pics ) behind the disintegrated cars around NYafter 911...was I dreaming this?? For the life of me I can't find it in this thread

Thats a really interesting one, there were 1,400 toasted cars on 9/11, and as far out as the FDR drive. Metal parts of cars toasted with perfectly intact vinyl/rubber. It appears they used the aid of some type of microwave technology from the Star Wars program (that was developed pre-70's pre-Reagan as far as I know).

What your looking for is the the work of Dr. Judy Wood who has a BS in civil engineering, M.S. (Engineering Mechanics (Applied Physics), and a Ph.D. in Materials Engineering Science. She developed a methods to measure thermal stresses in bimaterial joints and taught courses on it.

Its a very interesting topic, and I cannot come to conclusion on it but am very open to it, but the 9-11 truth movement has unfairly attacked Dr. Judy's work, yet they lack any explanation of the toasted cars.

The Star Wars Beam Weapons
and
Star Wars Directed-Energy Weapons (DEW)
(A focus of the Star Wars Program)

[SIZE=+2]Toasted Cars[/SIZE]
At the time this article was being developed, many people expressed disbelief that energy weapons existed outside of science fiction until they were reminded of the Star Wars Program, also known as the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)*. The name of this article was chosen as a reminder that energy weapons do exist and have been developed over 100 years. Most of this technology is classified information. It can also be assumed that such technology exists in multiple countries. The purpose of this article was to begin to identify the evidence of what happened on 9/11/01 that must be accounted for. In doing so, the evidence ruled out a Kinetic Energy Device (bombs, missiles, etc.) as the method of destruction as well as a gravity-driven "collapse."

*SDI was created by U.S. President Ronald Reagan on March 23, 1983.[SUP]1[/SUP] It is thought that SDI may have been first dubbed "Star Wars" by opponent Dr. Carol Rosin, a consultant and former spokeswoman for Wernher von Braun. However, Missile Defense Agency (MDA) historians attribute the term to a Washington Post article published March 24, 1983, the day after the Star Wars speech, which quoted Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy describing the proposal as "reckless Star Wars schemes."[SUP]2 [/SUP]Before it was named the "Star Wars Program (SDI) in 1983, it was the Advanced Space Programs Development.[SUP]3[/SUP][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]​







[SIZE=+1]Introduction [/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE]
A reported 1400 vehicles were damaged on 9/11. [Invalid Link Removed] These vehicles had peculiar patterns of damage and some were as far away as FDR Drive (about 7 blocks from the WTC, along the East River). Vehicles had missing door handles for example, windows blown out, window frames deformed, melted engine blocks, steel-belted tires with only the steel belts left, and vehicle front ends destroyed with little or no effect on the back end of the vehicles. What could have caused such extraordinary damage? Portions of cars burned while paper nearby did not.​







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[TD="colspan: 2"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 64. Peculiar wilting of car doors and deformed window surrounds on FDR Drive.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
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[SIZE=+1]Figure 65. Map of lower Manhattan shows the WTC and FDR Drive a half mile or more apart. [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Arial view of lower Manhattan. [/SIZE][SIZE=-2](mouse over to remove arrows and labels) [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
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[SIZE=+1]Figure 65a. Notice the dust-covered car in front of the toasted police car. There is also debris on the pavement away from the main part of the road. They probably couldn't clean it very well because the toasted cars were there.[/SIZE]
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[TD="width: 50%"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 65b. Notice the dust-covered car behind the toasted police car. There is also debris on the pavement away from the main part of the road. So, it appears the roadway has been washed already. [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
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[SIZE=+1]Figure 65c. Notice the two dust-covered cars under the bridge. How did the dust fall there? Obviosly there were strong enough air currents to put it there. It's interesting how the drying pavement looks like it does after its been treated for snow and ice. (This is thought to be the entrance ramp to the Brooklyn Bridge from southbound FDR Drive.)[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66. Toasted cars in a lot near the WTC[/SIZE][SIZE=-1].[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]


Source:[/SIZE]

[TD="width: 50%"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 67. Blistered car on FDR Drive with unburned upholstery and unburned plastic window molding.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
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[TD="width: 50%"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 68. Front half of a car burned with a shiny, unburned rear end.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]

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[TD="width: 50%"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 69. What burned and dragged these cars and mangled the left rear wheel? Where are the door handles?[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
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[TD="colspan: 2"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 70. What was this thing across the street? Was it a car? Was it a van? What caused that line of burn marks on the hood of the car in the foreground on the right? In the left foreground, the remains of a vehicle sit atop a white sedan. Are we looking at the front or the back end? It looks like the front end and if it is, its engine is missing. We can see daylight through the wheel well. [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
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Part 2 of Toasted Cars on 9/11 read previous post for part 1

[SIZE=+1]Peeling Appearance [/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]
[/SIZE]
Many vehicles had their outer surface peeled away like a sardine can. In some instances, clearly there is more than peeling paint was involved. It appears that the sheet metal delaminated as though something caused the material to melt or disintegrate at a certain depth. In some cases it appears that there was more heat damage inside than outside and vice versa.



Invalid Link Removed Invalid Link Removed

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[SIZE=+1]Figure 71. What happened to the axles, wheels, and tires? On the doors, it appears that a heavy layer of paint peeled down from the top, yet the paint on the lower part of the doors has not been peeled away. Wow did the wheel get under the rear suspension?[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
Source:[/SIZE]​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure 72. The car with the flat tire appears to have "wilted" from heat, from the top down, leaving a peeling appearance on the back end. The SUV on its right is missing all its window glass except for the windshield. The vehicle on the far right has no trace of tires, no door handles, no tail lights, and no windows. Why?[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
Source:[/SIZE]​

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[SIZE=+1]Figure 73. The peeling on the side door appears to be delaminated. Sheet metal is not laminated, so why would it do this? [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]

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[SIZE=+1]Figure 74. Why does this ambulance have melted inside doors? The inside looks to have suffered more heat damage than the outside. What would cause that?[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
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[SIZE=+1]Figure 75. Oddly enough, there were also toasted cars at the Pentagon on 9/11.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure 76. This is the same vehicle shown in the previous figure after the fires were extinguished. Why is the passenger door burned? Note how the hood is curled up.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
Source:[/SIZE]​

[/TD]






  • [SIZE=+1]Other Anomalies [/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE]
The pictures below document a wide variety of damage to vehicles, including total incineration of vehicles, toasted and disappeared engine blocks, steel-belted tires with no rubber and only steel belts, deformed wheels, missing grills, broken and missing vehicle windows and mirrors, no door handles, wilted doors, and unburned paper next to burning cars.




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[SIZE=+1]Figure firetruck. A badly damaged fire truck. Where did its engine go? The bottom of the tire has turned to goo below a distinct horizontal line in the tire. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]


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[SIZE=+1]Figure hazmat. A FDMY Hazmat truck in front of WTC6 on West Street[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]. The remaining upper part of the truck has been peeled and evaporated in areas. The upper part of the cab is gone and the engine block seems to have disappeared. The photo was taken on 9/11 after WTC1 disappeared but before WTC7 collapsed[/SIZE][SIZE=-1].[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
(9/11/01) Source:[/SIZE]​

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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(e). Why would the front of this fire truck wilt?[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(h). Is there something attractive about engine blocks? Why not gasoline fuel tanks?[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
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[SIZE=+1]Figure 77. The mail truck parked on the left side of the street looks burnt. Why? (Click on photo for enlarged view.) The building on the left is the USPS Federal Building and on the right is WTC7. WTC5 is on fire at the end of the street. Why? If this area is hot enough for spontaneous combustion, why isn't the paper on fire? The cars on the right side of the street are also toasted. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

[/TD]
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[SIZE=+1]Figure flip. Why is this car upside down? A burned out SUV with missing windows and toasted front end is parked in front of WFC2 on West Street but will not be moving under its own power.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/12/01) Source:[/SIZE]

[/TD]






  • [SIZE=+1]Lower Manhattan [/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=+1]Figure Map. Arial view of lower Manhattan.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2](mouse over to remove arrows and labels) [/SIZE]
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  • [SIZE=+1]FDR Drive [/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE]
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[TD="width: 48%"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 66(a). Cars along FDR drive were randomly toasted. These cars are at least 1/2 mile away from the WTC. Note the waviness of the tire tracks. What happened?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] Source :[/SIZE][/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 66(b). Wheels appear to have steel-belts from the tires still on them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] Source :[/SIZE][/TD]

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[TD="width: 48%"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 66(c). Did one car run under the other during the event or were they stacked after the event? The marks in the pavement suggest they were pushed to the side of the road.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] Source :[/SIZE][/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 66(d). The remains of a steel-belted tire without the rubber. [/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]This is a close-up of the figure above.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(j). The front end of this FDNY car is toasted and mildly deformed, while the door appears undamaged and the window glass is intact. The debris on this car suggests it was near the WTC.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

[/TD]
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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(f). While the bodies of these toasted vehicles still exist, they've been incinerated. All of the softer materials inside and out have disappeared. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(k). This[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] Toasted Interior [/SIZE][SIZE=+1] was consumed except for the fire extinguisher.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:
[/SIZE]​

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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(l). The front half of car 2723 is toasted, but check out the new wax job on the back. Notice the missing front door handle and the untouched back door handle.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(m). What happened to the top half of car 1250? The doors are crinkled up, but the rear tire looks OK.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(n). There is extensive damage to the front of car 2723, including no door handle on the driver's door. There is an unusual, unburned circular area on the rear door.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​
[/TD]



 
Part 3 of Toasted Cars


  • [SIZE=+1]Towed? [/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE]
In the debate over toasted cars ignited by this article, some have argued that the wrecked vehicles on FDR drive were damaged at the WTC and were loaded up and Invalid Link Removed and dumped on FDR drive for storage. First, there is no evidence that this was done. Second, it makes no sense to load up wrecks, transport them, only to dump them in a busy thoroughfare for storage. These wrecks would have had to be picked up yet again and transported again. If vehicles were truly moved from the WTC to FDR Drive, we wonder why WTC steel beams were not stacked up on FDR drive, as well, if it was such a good storage area. Third, governments may be stupid, but we doubt they could be this inefficient. If reported, it would have been a minor scandal. Fourth, we might be wrong about the facts here, but it looks like the motive for this speculation about shifting wrecks around lower Manhattan is to protect the official story or thermite story or other pet theories. We fail to see any other explanation for such a "forced" interpretation for these photographs. Fifth, marks on the roadway suggest that some of these vehicles were pushed to the side of the roadway until they could be removed. For example, see this Invalid Link Removed. This is a more natural explanation for why some of the cars appear to have been moved from where they were damaged rather than all the way from the WTC.




  • [SIZE=+1]Burning Cars [/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE]

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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(g). This fire seems to be very selective. [/SIZE]

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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(i). A minivan is consumed by flames. The fire rages inside the vehicle, contained by the remaining windows. The fire appears more intense at the front where the engine is.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
Source:[/SIZE]​

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[TD="width: 48%"] [SIZE=+1]Figure onfire1. The tires and even the pavement under the car are on fire. The windows appear to be intact with no visible interior fire. There is line of fire along the trunk lid. The right front fender is deformed and has turned white.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
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[TD="width: 48%"] [SIZE=+1]Figure onfire2. A fire rages, apparently on Vesey Street, sending up thick black smoke. These may be the vehicles that eyewitness Invalid Link Removed described as she ran past WTC6 during the destruction of WTC2.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
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  • [SIZE=+1]Missing Windows [/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE]


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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(o). Why doesn't the paper burn?[/SIZE]

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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(p). No window? What happened to the rear-view mirror?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(q). Why is the rubber window gasket hanging outward?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(r). Sans windows. (But nice tire!)[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(s). Why is the paper shredded but nothing else apparently disturbed?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(t). What blew out the windows without damaging the rest of the fire truck?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

[/TD]

[TD="width: 48%"]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]
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[/TD]

[TD="width: 48%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(u). The window gasket is on the outside. What blew out the windows? What dislodged the front grill?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(v). It didn't blow out just the middle portion of the windows; it blew out the windows all the way back to the frame where it was mounted.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

[/TD]

[TD="width: 48%"]
Invalid Link Removed

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]
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[/TD]

[TD="width: 48%"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 66(w). Hosing down the windowless fire truck.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] Source :[/SIZE][/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 66(x). Final cleaning of the windowless fire truck. Notice its grill is missing.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] Source :[/SIZE][/TD]

[TD="width: 48%"]
Invalid Link Removed

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]
Invalid Link Removed

[/TD]

[TD="width: 48%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(y). What could have caused such extensive damage to this car? Has the passenger side shoulder harness survived? Where's the steering wheel?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure 66(z). Why is this fire truck burnt? It is missing its front grill, headlights, and related front end bright-work. Where are the tires?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​

[/TD]



Most of the 1400 toasted cars had some, if not all, windows missing. What would cause this? Figure yy, below, shows a silver convertible with its top apparently intact but missing some of its window glass. If the windows were blown out from pressure inside, we would expect the convertible top to have been torn or blown off. This suggests that the windows were not blown out by internal pressure, but may have been shattered by some other mechanism.

Invalid Link Removed

[TD="width: 52%"] Invalid Link Removed [/TD]

[TD="width: 48%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure yy. The cars parked in the back suffered extensive damage. The car on the left and on the far right look like they have had their engines eaten. The cars in the foreground experienced less damage, but many windows are missing, however partial and whole windows also remain.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/12/01) Source:[/SIZE]

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure 78. Why is this windshield crumpled up? Curiously, the interior of the car does not appear to contain anything that crashed through the windshield. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source:[/SIZE]​
[/TD]
 
Final Part 4

[SIZE=+1]Toasted Parking Lot [/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE]

Invalid Link Removed

[TD="width: 48%"] Invalid Link Removed [/TD]

[TD="width: 48%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast1. afterWTC2 was destroyed there don't appear to be any fires. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/11/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]

[/TD]
[TD="width: 48%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast2a. The cloud from the destruction of WTC1 rolls toward the parking lot. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/11/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]

[/TD]


Invalid Link Removed

[TD="width: 52%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast2b. Just after WTC1 is destroyed, fires start to burn the vehicles in the large lot, but not the paper. Why? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/11/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]​

[/TD]


Invalid Link Removed

[TD="width: 52%"] Invalid Link Removed [/TD]

[TD="width: 48%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast3. The vehicle fires increase in strength as sunling begins to emerge through the clearing dust cloud.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/11/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast4.The air upwind of the WTC has visably become clearer. The vehicle fires continue increasing and flames can be seen.
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/11/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]​

[/TD]


Invalid Link Removed
[SIZE=+1]Figure 5. The air has cleared after the destruction of WTC1. This area would be first to clear as it is upwind of the WTC. The fire in the toasted lot has increased in strength, consistent with it having just been started.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/11/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]



Invalid Link Removed

[TD="width: 48%"] Invalid Link Removed [/TD]
[TD="width: 48%"] Invalid Link Removed [/TD]

[TD="width: 48%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast6. Sunlight begins streaming through the intersection. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/11/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]

[/TD]
[TD="width: 48%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast7 The intersection and the grasssy lot are covered with paper and dust that did not burn. So, what caused the vehicles to suddenly catch fire?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/11/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]

[/TD]
[TD="width: 48%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast8. How did these cars
catch on fire? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/11/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]

[/TD]


Invalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
[SIZE=+1]Figure street9(a). Gone with the Wind[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]At the corner of West and Vesey, looking south toward the WTC complex. WTC1 was just destroyed and the people are cautiously emerging from their hiding places and slowly approaching the site with puzzled looks on their faces. "Where'd it go?" This appears to be about the same time as that of the previous three figures. [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](9/11/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Figure street9(b). Gone with the Wind[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]A view west along Vesey street across the West St. intersection. The toasted parking lot is on the right in the distance. This is after WTC1 was destroyed. Sunlight is visible on WFC3 (on left). Paper in the foreground is not on fire. Why are vehicles in the parking lot on fire at some distance away?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/11/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]



Invalid Link Removed


[TD="width: 48%"] Invalid Link Removed [/TD]

[TD="width: 48%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast10. Toasted cars in the lot northwest of the WTC complex. There is little visible rust, so the photo was probably within a day or two of 9/11/01.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](9/?/01) [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Source: (WRH)[/SIZE]​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 48%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast11. Not much visible rust, yet.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/?/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]

[/TD]


Invalid Link Removed

[TD="width: 52%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast12. The rust is noticeable[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/23/01) Source: (JW cut down from NOAA)[/SIZE]

[/TD]


Invalid Link Removed

[TD="width: 52%"] Invalid Link Removed [/TD]

[TD="width: 48%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast13. A lot more rust[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/?/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast14. Towing finally begins.
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/?/01) Invalid Link Removed: [/SIZE]

[/TD]


Invalid Link Removed

[TD="width: 52%"] Invalid Link Removed [/TD]

[TD="width: 48%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast15. Presumably these cars are finally being towed away from that lot. Those wheels look fairly good which means they probably aren't steel.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](9/?/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]

[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]
[SIZE=+1]Figure toast16. The background is near the WTC
[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1](9/?/01) Invalid Link Removed:[/SIZE]

[/TD]


See also Invalid Link Removed
(on a page not yet in this series).




[SIZE=+1]Jet Fuel (Kerosene) [/SIZE][SIZE=-2]Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE]



[TD="align: center"]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 226, align: center"]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 256, align: center"]
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[/TD]

[TD="width: 336"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 64. Peculiar wilting of car doors and deformed window surrounds on FDR Drive. Kerosene fires cannot do this.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] Invalid Link Removed :[/SIZE][/TD]
[TD="width: 226"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 67. These fires do not melt or significantly weaken steel.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Source: Century wood stoves[/SIZE] [/TD]
[TD="width: 256"] [SIZE=+1]Figure 67k. Kerosene fires do not melt or significantly weaken steel.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Invalid Link Removed: Dyna-Glo kerosene heater: Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE] [/TD]

[TD="width: 336"]
Invalid Link Removed

[/TD]
[TD="width: 226"]
Invalid Link Removed

[/TD]
[TD="width: 256"]
Invalid Link Removed

[/TD]

[TD="width: 336"] [SIZE=-1]Invalid Link Removed: Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE] [/TD]
[TD="width: 226"] [SIZE=-1]Invalid Link Removed: Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE] [/TD]
[TD="width: 256"] [SIZE=-1]Source: Invalid Link Removed[/SIZE] [/TD]
 
Hey man i'm trying to find those links to the story (and pics ) behind the disintegrated cars around NYafter 911...was I dreaming this?? For the life of me I can't find it in this thread

Let me know if you have any more questions, or need anything Im here to contribute :)
 
The Secret Behind Whitney Houston’s Death

Infowars.com
February 12, 2012

How her tragic death, like those of Elvis and Michael Jackson, could have been avoided.

[video=youtube;DqeGDDAu3yw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded& v=DqeGDDAu3yw#![/video]

Prescription drugs found in Whitney Houston’s hotel room, report says

Via Invalid Link Removed>>> LOS ANGELES – Bottles of prescription drugs were found in the Beverly Hills Hilton hotel room where Whitney Houston’s lifeless body was discovered Saturday afternoon just hours before a huge Grammy party she was to attend, a report says.
Police discovered “various pill bottles” in Houston’s room, TMZ reported, adding that family members said Houston had been taking the prescription drug Xanax, which is often used to treat anxiety.


When combined with alcohol, Xanax can cause drowsiness. Houston was reportedly found in her bathtub — TMZ says her head was underwater — and could not be revived by paramedics after being removed from the tub.

Invalid Link Removed


Statistics prove prescription drugs are 16,400% more deadly than terrorists

From Invalid Link Removed>>> (By Jessica Fraser) America was rudely awakened to a new kind of danger on September 11, 2001: Terrorism. The attacks that day left 2,996 people dead, including the passengers on the four commercial airliners that were used as weapons. Many feel it was the most tragic day in U.S. history.

Four commercial jets crashed that day. But what if six jumbo jets crashed every day in the United States, claiming the lives of 783,936 people every year? That would certainly qualify as a massive tragedy, wouldn’t it?
Well, forget “what if.” The tragedy is happening right now. Over 750,000 people actually do die in the Invalid Link Removed every year, although not from plane crashes. They die from something far more common and rarely perceived by the public as dangerous: Invalid Link Removed.

Invalid Link Removed

According to the groundbreaking 2003 medical report Death by Medicine, by Drs. Gary Null, Carolyn Dean, Martin Feldman, Debora Rasio and Dorothy Smith, 783,936 people in the United States die every year from conventional Invalid Link Removed mistakes. That’s the equivalent of six jumbo jet crashes a day for an entire year. But where is the media attention for this tragedy? Where is the Invalid Link Removed support for stopping these Invalid Link Removed before they happen?

After Invalid Link Removed, the White House gave rise to the Department of Invalid Link Removed, designed to prevent terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. Since its inception, billions of dollars have been poured into it. The 2006 budget allots $34.2 billion to the DHS, a number that has come down slightly from the $37.7 billion budget of 2003.

According to the study led by Null, which involved a painstaking Invalid Link Removed of thousands of medical records, the United States spends $282 billion annually on deaths due to medical Invalid Link Removed, or iatrogenic deaths. And that’s a conservative estimate; only a fraction of Invalid Link Removed are reported, according to the study. Actual medical mistakes are likely to be 20 times higher than the reported number because Invalid Link Removed fear retaliation for those mistakes. The American public heads to the doctor’s office or the Invalid Link Removed time and again, oblivious of the alarming Invalid Link Removed they’re heading into. The public knows that medical errors occur, but they assume that errors are unusual, isolated events.

Unfortunately, by accepting conventional medicine, Invalid Link Removed voluntarily continue to walk into the leading Invalid Link Removed in America.
According to a 1995 U.S. iatrogenic report, “Over a million patients are injured in U.S. hospitals each year, and approximately 280,000 die annually as a result of these injuries. Therefore, the iatrogenic Invalid Link Removed dwarfs the annual automobile accident mortality rate of 45,000 and accounts for more Invalid Link Removed than all other accidents combined.” This report was issued 10 years ago, when Invalid Link Removed had 34 million fewer citizens and Invalid Link Removed company scandals like the Invalid Link Removed recall were yet to occur. Today, Invalid Link Removed comprises 15.5 percent of the United States’ gross national product, with spending reaching $1.4 trillion in 2004.

Since Americans spend so much money on Invalid Link Removed care, they should be getting a high quality of care, right? Unfortunately, that’s not the case. Of the 783,936 annual deaths due to conventional medical mistakes, about 106,000 are from Invalid Link Removed, according to Death by Medicine. That also is a conservative number. Some Invalid Link Removed estimate it should be more like 200,000 because of underreported cases of Invalid Link Removed.

Americans today are used to fixing problems the quick way – even when it comes to their health. Thus, they rely heavily on prescription Invalid Link Removed to fix their diseases. For every conceivable ailment – real or not – chances are there’s a pricey Invalid Link Removed to “treat” it. Chances are even better that their drug of choice comes chock full of Invalid Link Removed.

The problem is, prescription drugs don’t treat diseases; they merely cover the symptoms. U.S. Invalid Link Removed provide allopathic health care – that is, they care for Invalid Link Removed, not health. So, the over-prescription of drugs and medications is designed to treat disease instead of preventing it. And because there are so many drugs available, unforeseen adverse drug reactions are all too common, which leads to the highly conservative annual prescription drug Invalid Link Removed rate of 106,000. Keep in mind that these numbers came before the Vioxx scandal, and Cox-2 inhibitor drugs could ultimately end up killing tens of thousands more.

American medical patients are getting the short end of a rather raw deal when it comes to prescription drugs. Medicine is a high-dollar, highly competitive Invalid Link Removed. But it shouldn’t be. Null’s report cites the five most important aspects of health that modern medicine ignores in favor of the almighty dollar: Stress, lack of Invalid Link Removed, high calorie intake, highly processed foods and environmental toxin exposure. All these things are putting Americans in such poor health that they run to the Invalid Link Removed for treatment. But instead of doctors treating the causes of their poor health, such as putting them on a strict diet and exercise regimen, they stuff them full of prescription drugs to cover their Invalid Link Removed. Using this inherently faulty system of medical treatment, it’s no wonder so many Americans die from prescription drugs. They’re not getting better; they’re just popping drugs to make their symptoms temporarily go away.

But not all doctors subscribe to this method of “treatment.” In fact, many doctors are just as angry as the public should be, charging that scientific medicine is “for sale” to the highest bidder – which, more often than not, end up being Invalid Link Removed. The pharmaceutical Invalid Link Removed is a multi-trillion dollar business. Companies spend billions on Invalid Link Removed and promotions for prescription drugs. Who can remember the last time they watched television and weren’t bombarded with ads for pills treating everything from erectile dysfunction to sleeplessness? And who has ever been to a doctor’s office or hospital and not seen every pen, notepad and post-it bearing the logo of some prescription drug?

Medical experts claim that patients’ requests for certain drugs have no effect on the number of prescriptions written for that drug. Pharmaceutical Invalid Link Removed claim their drug ads are “educational” to the public. The public believes Invalid Link Removed reviews all the ads and only allows the safest and most effective drug ads to reach the public. It’s a clever system: Pharmaceutical companies influence the public to ask for prescription drugs, the public asks their physicians to prescribe them certain drugs, and doctors acquiesce to their patients’ requests. Everyone’s happy, right? Not quite, since the prescription drug death toll continues to rise.

The public seems to genuinely believe that drugs advertised on TV are safe, in spite of the plethora of side effects listed by the commercial’s narrator, ranging from diarrhea to death. Patients feel justified in asking their physicians to prescribe them a particular drug they’ve seen on TV, since it surely must be safe or it wouldn’t have been advertised. Remember all those TV ads heralding the wonders of Vioxx? One might wonder how many lives could have been spared if patients didn’t see the ad on TV and request a prescription from their doctors.

But advertising isn’t the only tool the Invalid Link Removed uses to influence medicine. Null’s study cites an ABC report that said pharmaceutical companies spend over $2 billion sending doctors to more than 314,000 events every year. While doctors are riding the dollar of pharmaceutical companies, enjoying all the many perks of these “events,” how likely are they to question the validity of Invalid Link Removed or their products?

Admittedly, not all doctors reside in the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies. Some are downright angry at the situation, and angry on behalf of an unaware public. Major conflicts of interest exist between the American public, the medical community and the pharmaceutical industry. And although the public suffers the most from this conflict, it is the least informed. The public gets the short end of the stick and they don’t even know it. That is why the pharmaceutical industry remains a multi-trillion dollar business.

Prescription drugs are only a part of the U.S. Invalid Link Removed system’s miserable failings. In fact, outpatient deaths, bedsore deaths and malnutrition deaths each account for higher death rates than adverse drug reactions. The problems run deep and cannot be remedied without drastic, widespread change in the system’s money and Invalid Link Removed.

The first issue – Invalid Link Removed – is the main reason the medical industry cannot seem to change. Prescribing more drugs and recommending more Invalid Link Removed means more profits. Getting more drugs approved by the Invalid Link Removed, regardless of their Invalid Link Removed, means more money for the pharmaceutical industry. As the Invalid Link Removed stands today, physicians and drug companies can’t seem to pass up earning loads of money, even if a few hundred thousand people lose their lives in the process. Even in drastic cases of deadly drugs, everyone involved has a scapegoat: Drug companies can blame the FDA for approving their product and the doctors for over-prescribing it, and doctors can blame the patients for wanting it and not properly weighing the risks.

What ultimately arises is a question of ethics. In layman’s terms, ethics are the rules or moral guidelines that govern the conduct of people or professions. Some ethics are ingrained from childhood, but some are specifically set forth. For example, nearly all medical schools have their new doctors take a modern form of the Hippocratic Oath. While few versions are identical, none include setting aside proper medical care in favor of money-making practices.

On the Invalid Link Removed side of the issue, “Death by Medicine” cites an ABC report that says clinical trials funded by pharmaceutical companies show a 90 percent chance that a drug will be perceived as effective, whereas clinical trials not funded by drug companies show only a 50 percent chance that a drug will be perceived as effective. “It appears that money can’t buy you love, but it can buy you any ‘scientific’ result you want,” writes Null and his team of researchers.
The government spends upwards of $30 billion a year on homeland Invalid Link Removed. Such spending seems important. Since 2001, 2,996 people in the United States have died from Invalid Link Removed – all as a result of the 9/11 attacks. In that same period of time, 490,000 people have died from prescription drugs, not counting the Vioxx scandal. That means that prescription drugs in this country are at least 16,400 percent deadlier than terrorism. Again, those are the conservative numbers. A more realistic number, which would include deaths from over-the-counter drugs, makes drug consumption 32,000 percent deadlier than terrorism. But the scope of “Death by Medicine” is even wider. Conventional medicine, including unnecessary surgeries, bedsores and medical errors, is 104,700 percent deadlier than terrorism. Yet, our government’s attention and money is not put into reforming health care.

Couldn’t a little chunk of the homeland security money be better spent on overhauling the corrupt U.S. healthcare system, the leading cause of death in America? Couldn’t we forfeit the color-coded threat system in favor of stricter guidelines on medical research and prescription drugs? No one is attempting to say that terrorism in the world is not a problem, especially for a high-profile country like the United States. No one is saying that the people who died on 9/11 didn’t matter or weren’t horribly wronged by the Invalid Link Removed that day. But there are more dangerous things in the United States being falsely represented as safe and healthy, when, in reality, they are deadly. The corruption in the pharmaceutical industry and in America’s healthcare system poses a far greater threat to the health, safety and welfare of Americans today than terrorism.

If the Bush Administration really wants to save lives — a lot of lives — it needs look no further than the chemical war has been declared on Americans by Big Pharma.
 
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