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Tongkat Ali Dosing- Mr. Cooper or Danes

MassMonster76

New member
Hi

I just scored a kilo of Tongkat Ali 200:1 extract

my friend works at a lab so he will be able to do a HPLC test on it to make sure it is bang on as well check for heavy metals

my question is how would I dose this for best results

I wasn't planning on capping it but doing it raw

I guess I would use a digital scale to measure it to be most accurate

thanks
 
water or Alcohol extract?

200:1 doesn't really mean much in terms of standardization for the compounds needed.

What will you test by HPLC?
 
MassMonster76 said:
Hi

I just scored a kilo of Tongkat Ali 200:1 extract

my friend works at a lab so he will be able to do a HPLC test on it to make sure it is bang on as well check for heavy metals

my question is how would I dose this for best results

I wasn't planning on capping it but doing it raw

I guess I would use a digital scale to measure it to be most accurate

thanks
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Came in to help because dosing is pretty standard, left sad that only two people have been called to help.
 
I just wrote a tongkat ali piece for a website so just finished reading quite a few papers on it.

What is it you are asking here? How much to take?
 
I have access to test it by HPLC so what am I looking for to see the true quality of it

USP Labs rep say this

quassinoids
Eurycomanone

what should be the numbers I am looking for

is there anything else

thank you all for your help you guys are awesome
 
MassMonster76 said:
I have access to test it by HPLC so what am I looking for to see the true quality of it

USP Labs rep say this

quassinoids
Eurycomanone

what should be the numbers I am looking for

is there anything else

thank you all for your help you guys are awesome
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Olympus Labs LJ100:
Invalid Link Removed

I know crude extracts are cheap and that HPLC testing would cost more than an actual KG of a crude extract. We had a crazy good insider deal on it about a week ago and if you still want to give it a go I could honor that price for you.
 

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If you want an idea of how active someone is just click/search their user name and view forum posts to see how long ago he/she posted.......
 
Coop doesn't frequent the boards that often anymore as he has much more important things going on.
 
I can't link the article because 1) It isn't posted online yet. I just submitted it and it hasn't gone through the editing process to make it more reader friendly and 2) I am not allowed to post the link because it is for a retailer site

However I can quote some pieces from it for you

For how much to take

While a optimal dose is unknown, the typical dose of Tongkat Ali extract ranges from 200-400 mg [25]. This is usually a 100:1 extract which would equate to roughly 20-30 g of the root. This dose is normally recommended to be administered to men in 1-2 doses throughout the day.

The maximal acceptable daily intake of Tongkat Ali is up to 1.2g/60 kg adult/day [26].
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For what compounds are in it

The primary bioactive compound in Tongkat Ali is believed to be the quassinoid compounds. These are a group of natural chemical compounds classified as diterpenoids and triterpenoid structures. Quassinoids are bitter principles found in plants that are in the Simaroubaceae family [3,4,5]. Several quassinoids have been isolated and identified in Tongkat Ali [6]. The most promising of these include eurycomanone, eurycomalactone, euryconolactone (A-C), eurycomanon, and eurycomanol. Of these, eurycomanone and eurycomanol are believed to be the main bioactive quassinoids [7]. However, currently no relevant studies specific to exactly which quassinoid is the one responsible for the effects some experience from Tongkat Ali supplementation. Despite this, some supplement manufacturers do extract specifically for quassinoids or glycopeptide fractions. Glycopeptides are a form of bonded amino acids chains and like quassinoids, are promising but at this time no relevant specific studies have been done on them. The most popular extract of Tongkat Ali is LJ100. This extract is a 100:1 patented blend consisting of the two more promising bioactives, eurypeptides and glycosaponins, in a 22% and 40% ratio respectively [8].
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Olympus Labs said:
Olympus Labs LJ100:
Invalid Link Removed

I know crude extracts are cheap and that HPLC testing would cost more than an actual KG of a crude extract. We had a crazy good insider deal on it about a week ago and if you still want to give it a go I could honor that price for you.
Click to expand...

I've tested Lj100 against "crude" and there is not much difference...
 
USPlabsRep said:
I've tested Lj100 against "crude" and there is not much difference...
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I would have to respectfully disagree. Research data on the crude extract is mixed while LJ100 has been shown to be significantly more convincing. Furthermore with a crude extract, there is a greater probability of impurities and a lesser quality product. Having a reputable standardized extract ensures both quality, safety and effectiveness.

Now if you are referring to the overall state of well being, both have been shown to be effective. However, when it came to performance and changes in hormone panels, LJ100 has more consistent data. We do have studies to verfiy this on the product write up. Therefore, as a testbooster, OL felt LJ100 was a better bulk product then just crude extract of tongkat ali.

Until a crude extract of TA is able to report a greater amount of positive human studies than LJ100, we'll choose and utilize something that has been empirically supported to be far superior than a crude extract. The price of LJ100 is justified in the regard that it is strongly supported by a number of in-vivo human studies to back up its efficacy.
 
GoHardOrGoHme said:
I would have to respectfully disagree. Research data on the crude extract is mixed while LJ100 has been shown to be significantly more convincing. Furthermore with a crude extract, there is a greater probability of impurities and a lesser quality product. Having a reputable standardized extract ensures both quality, safety and effectiveness.

Now if you are referring to the overall state of well being, both have been shown to be effective. However, when it came to performance and changes in hormone panels, LJ100 has more consistent data. We do have studies to verfiy this on the product write up. Therefore, as a testbooster, OL felt LJ100 was a better bulk product then just crude extract of tongkat ali.

Until a crude extract of TA is able to report a greater amount of positive human studies than LJ100, we'll choose and utilize something that has been empirically supported to be far superior than a crude extract. The price of LJ100 is justified in the regard that it is strongly supported by a number of in-vivo human studies to back up its efficacy.
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Where you and I are disconnected is the definition of "crude" extracts. You are implying everything that is not LJ100 is "crude."

from our analysis is that Crude is not always Crude in comparison to Lj100..

Analysis Performed
Method Sample # 1
Naturex Sample # 2
HP Sample # 3
Other
Eurycomanone
SAM01175 (HPLC-UV) 0.561% 1.04% 2.67%
Eurypeptides
SAM06002 (Lowry) 12.26% 22.23% 34.97%
Glycosaponins
SAM 01174 (Gravimetric) 14.13% 30.29% 35.01%
 
Okay wait a minute....the way you presented that data has led me to believe you are admitting the 3 samples all contained different amount of Eurycomanone, Eurypeptides, and Glysaponins....validating when I said you dont know what your getting(paraphrasing of course).

With LJ100, we can provide a consistent amount of eurycomanone, glycosaponins, and bioactive eurypeptides that has empirical data to support its effectiveness. With a crude, not standardized extract, it will vary from batch to batch leading to inconsistent quality. Something we purposely avoided.
 
GoHardOrGoHme said:
Okay wait a minute....the way you presented that data has led me to believe you are admitting the 3 samples all contained different amount of Eurycomanone, Eurypeptides, and Glysaponins....validating when I said you dont know what your getting(paraphrasing of course).

With LJ100, we can provide a consistent amount of eurycomanone, glycosaponins, and bioactive eurypeptides that has empirical data to support its effectiveness. With a crude, not standardized extract, it will vary from batch to batch leading to inconsistent quality. Something we purposely avoided.
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I presented a "crude" extract that tested higher than both branded ingredients.

I don't doubt the Lj100 Research or there process of extraction.
 
Quote from the Home page of today about TA:

**It doesn’t make much difference which extract you use, the researchers write. From this they conclude that the anabolic effect of Tongkat Ali is based on a series of compounds. If there were one specific substance that was responsible for muscle growth, then a few extracts would have had absolutely no effect**
 
USPlabsRep said:
I presented a "crude" extract that tested higher than both branded ingredients.

I don't doubt the Lj100 Research or there process of extraction.
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I think the best analogy I can make for this is the following:

Lifter A: Can bench at most 405 2 or 3x a year.
Lifter B: Can bench 405 every single chest day no matter what.

Which lifter is stronger? (in this analogy 405 being the number necessary to replicate the doses that were found effective over and over again)

Can a non-standardized crude extract contain more of a certain component every once and a while. Yes(thats a no brainer). However, with a crude, non-standardized extract, you cannot guarentee a consistent level of quality because it will vary from batch to batch. Leading to poor quality assurance.

So you presented 3 samples of a non-standardized crude
Eurycomanine Eurypeptides Gyloproteins
Sample 1: 0.561% 12.26% 14.13%
Sample 2: 1.04% 22.23% 30.29%
Sample 3: 2.67% 34.97% 35.01%

Ive bolded the 3x that the crude has a higher extract for one component (the 3x a year a crude extract can bench 405)

We present to you LJ100 that test:
LJ100: .8% 28% 40% every single time. This is what ours tested at and what we put on the label.

And this is the amount that has research to support its effectiveness.

So, in conclusion, i stand by the fact that a standardized LJ100 extract to Tongkat Ali, is a superior product for consistent testboosting effectiveness than a crude, non-standardized extract.
 
Unfortunately, these numbered extracts don't mean a whole lot. The fact that most raw materials suppliers can't even specify what the 200:1 is with respect to (i.e. aqueous, ethanolic, certain compounds, which part of the plant) should tell you that the numbers don't tell much of a story. If you are going to hplc test it, quassinoids are a good bet. Eurycamonone is a nice AI as well but it's often present in minute quantities. I was never quite sold on the whole concept of eurypeptides...especially when I probed the Eurygold maker as to what they actually are and their answer left much to be desired
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Unfortunately, these numbered extracts don't mean a whole lot. The fact that most raw materials suppliers can't even specify what the 200:1 is with respect to (i.e. aqueous, ethanolic, certain compounds, which part of the plant) should tell you that the numbers don't tell much of a story. If you are going to hplc test it, quassinoids are a good bet. Eurycamonone is a nice AI as well but it's often present in minute quantities. I was never quite sold on the whole concept of eurypeptides...especially when I probed the Eurygold maker as to what they actually are and their answer left much to be desired
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HPLC is not most suitable method sometimes and that's the reason we used three methods..

If you look at recent research I think the Lj100 people are understanding it could be something else...
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Unfortunately, these numbered extracts don't mean a whole lot. The fact that most raw materials suppliers can't even specify what the 200:1 is with respect to (i.e. aqueous, ethanolic, certain compounds, which part of the plant) should tell you that the numbers don't tell much of a story. If you are going to hplc test it, quassinoids are a good bet. Eurycamonone is a nice AI as well but it's often present in minute quantities. I was never quite sold on the whole concept of eurypeptides...especially when I probed the Eurygold maker as to what they actually are and their answer left much to be desired
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I can see you want to put an end to our pissing match lol.

The long and short of what I think you are getting at, is Tongkat Ali works...but why it works and what makes it work is still not fully understood. There is data to suggest that LJ100 is an effective means to naturally increase serum test and sperm motility, but why this does it is only speculated.

But what I can say is, of the research Ive seen, this product has me confident that people will indeed enjoy it.
 
GoHardOrGoHme said:
I can see you want to put an end to our pissing match lol.

The long and short of what I think you are getting at, is Tongkat Ali works...but why it works and what makes it work is still not fully understood. There is data to suggest that LJ100 is an effective means to naturally increase serum test and sperm motility, but why this does it is only speculated.

But what I can say is, of the research Ive seen, this product has me confident that people will indeed enjoy it.
Click to expand...

I've enjoyed Lj100 and other Crude extracts.
 
USPlabsRep said:
I've enjoyed Lj100 and other Crude extracts.
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haha and I enjoyed Prime...but you took that off the market(boo). The Asteroid Stack....man I enjoyed that way back when. Added in some of the original Jack3d...good times.
 
GoHardOrGoHme said:
haha and I enjoyed Prime...but you took that off the market(boo). The Asteroid Stack....man I enjoyed that way back when. Added in some of the original Jack3d...good times.
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PRIME indeed was quite a run at the old fabled 6/9 protocol. Overall, heck LJ100 seems like a more than worthy supplement to test out.
 
Looking to test out some reasonably priced Tongkat Ali.

Anyone have any suggestions? Do we trust Swanson brand products? I want to run it the majority of the year so I need to be price conscious as well as quality conscious.
 
ive been using bluk supplements 100:1 longjack..
you can get 50 grams for like 20 bucks. I just mix about 400mgs twice a day in some V8 juice to mask the bitterness.
 
kboxer7 said:
Looking to test out some reasonably priced Tongkat Ali.

Anyone have any suggestions? Do we trust Swanson brand products? I want to run it the majority of the year so I need to be price conscious as well as quality conscious.
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I like Swanson for basics like Vitamin C, Glu/Cho/MSM , and stuff like that but I've run Tong Kat from a co. called Barlowes
a few times and their 100:1 extract worked well for me and isn't to hard on the wallet.
 
Decided to rock out Lj100 from OL after seeing some bloodwork from another member.

Couldn't argue with the results in free test and lower shbg.

And @ Strong Supp shop you get a free product with any OL purchase right now....
 
kboxer7 said:
Decided to rock out Lj100 from OL after seeing some bloodwork from another member.

Couldn't argue with the results in free test and lower shbg.

And @ Strong Supp shop you get a free product with any OL purchase right now....
Click to expand...

Def a good time to give it a try!
 
TheMovement said:
Def a good time to give it a try!
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I scooped one up way before the sale but I'm gonna get in on this deal as well.

I've tried a lot of different Long Jack products from reputable companies without a whole lot of success, but there is definitely a difference in using the LJ100 standardized extract.

Solid product.
 
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