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Tomatidine (potent natural anabolic?)

JakeAntaeus said:
We're providing it. We're aware of the fact that some people want to up the tomatidine dose without megadosing on shilajit, so we're making a very small test batch with more tomatidine and less shilajit per capsule. It's probably not going to be something we release commercially -- but, if there's more interest in this, please do let me know.
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Interested !
 
Experimenter said:
I started out being seriously skeptical of Antaeus and the products, but I am a true believer now. Seriously, like creatine, I don't think I will ever go "off" Titan with HH6. From a cost standpoint, following the recommended dosages did result in unexpected results for me. From a curiousity standpoint, a higher dosage of Tomatidine with higher dosages of ursolic acid and special vitamin C seems to be alot better per feedback on this forum alone already.

Price to me is always right even to try something out. Reason: unless you really try something, you simply DO NOT KNOW if it works or does not work for you. Experiences from others have to be taken with somewhat a grain of salt because our physiologies and chemistry are different enough.

It is very similar to anabolics. If you don't ever try it, you simply don't know. Some people actually get NOTHING out of them believe it or not (which of course many would say they didn't get real stuff which is probably true). As long as one does something intelligently (so many people don't), conservatively at first, and measured, one actually learns something about themselves. And the biggest lesson I believe is that they learn they are different in their responses to substances than others. And that is a good thing.
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I know 2 things for sure (after adding HH6 and Tomatidine):

1. More strength
2. More size

In january (prior) starting with HH6/Titan, my T levels was just 6.9 . That is low for a 33 years old male. But without changing the diet or workoutroutine (and even low T levels) My strength is STILL increasing and I have added pretty nice mass. Bodyweight has also increased.

My dad has been very sick/critical since monday last week and it was very depressing. Havent been eating , sleeping ++ properly. But I am still gaining strength.
 
Danes said:
I know 2 things for sure (after adding HH6 and Tomatidine):

1. More strength
2. More size

In january (prior) starting with HH6/Titan, my T levels was just 6.9 . That is low for a 33 years old male. But without changing the diet or workoutroutine (and even low T levels) My strength is STILL increasing and I have added pretty nice mass. Bodyweight has also increased.

My dad has been very sick/critical since monday last week and it was very depressing. Havent been eating , sleeping ++ properly. But I am still gaining strength.
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Sorry to hear about your dad man! Wish him well! What are you doing about your low T levels? Clomid restart?
 
Danes said:
I know 2 things for sure (after adding HH6 and Tomatidine):

1. More strength
2. More size

In january (prior) starting with HH6/Titan, my T levels was just 6.9 . That is low for a 33 years old male. But without changing the diet or workoutroutine (and even low T levels) My strength is STILL increasing and I have added pretty nice mass. Bodyweight has also increased.

My dad has been very sick/critical since monday last week and it was very depressing. Havent been eating , sleeping ++ properly. But I am still gaining strength.
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Sorry about your dad, buddy. Hope things turn around. Wish you both the best.
 
I've been a huge fan of anteaus since they hit the scene years ago but Im skeptical as to how much the cyclo helps the horrific solubility/absorption issues of ursolic acid. The only way PA could make it work was to develope arginine ursolic acetate and throw it in a transdermal. I'm predicting that 500mg of the Argonne ursolic acetate topically will be a much better bang than 600-700 of cyclo ursolic. I'd love to be proven wrong though. Either way I might try some out on top of UR spray to see if there is any difference. Stacking the Arginine ursolic caps on top of the spray back in the day was tits so hopefully this could have a similar effect
 
CATdiesel76 said:
I've been a huge fan of anteaus since they hit the scene years ago but Im skeptical as to how much the cyclo helps the horrific solubility/absorption issues of ursolic acid. The only way PA could make it work was to develope arginine ursolic acetate and throw it in a transdermal. I'm predicting that 500mg of the Argonne ursolic acetate topically will be a much better bang than 600-700 of cyclo ursolic. I'd love to be proven wrong though. Either way I might try some out on top of UR spray to see if there is any difference. Stacking the Arginine ursolic caps on top of the spray back in the day was tits so hopefully this could have a similar effect
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Yes but Antaeus is using shilajit that is bonded to the tomatidine for absorption enhancing. Might work just as well bonded to ursolic acid...people with more knowledge than me will have determine that.
 
ELROCK said:
Sorry to hear about your dad man! Wish him well! What are you doing about your low T levels? Clomid restart?
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Hey and thank you for the kind words. To jh1 too:) thank you guys.

I will run Clomid but my low T is due to many years with severe sleep apnea.
After couple of surgeries from 2008 to 2011, I am good now :)
 
I have been trying UR spray and it's no miracle. It does seem to work somewhat. I will keep on it to see if I truly notice a difference but it's certainly not a miracle worker.

I agree that topical should be better, but UA has a higher molecular weight and that bonded to Arginine will be even higher. I calculated 656 for the MW.

Topical products work BEST at 200-400 MW. Now, it's certainly possible to get larger things through but more difficult. Still, I don't think the cyclo UA will do very much to be honest.
 
Worth a try for sure. Not sure it needs to be bonded and even if it can be bonded but it certainly seems to help to complex it!
 
Experimenter said:
I started out being seriously skeptical of Antaeus and the products, but I am a true believer now.
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This is very much appreciated.

I know that you can't PM me, but please feel free to email. It's antaeuslabs [ at ] gmail dotcom.

For what it's worth, the ultra-small-batch of high-dosed tomatidine should be ready in roughly two to three weeks.
 
JakeAntaeus said:
This is very much appreciated.

I know that you can't PM me, but please feel free to email. It's antaeuslabs [ at ] gmail dotcom.

For what it's worth, the ultra-small-batch of high-dosed tomatidine should be ready in roughly two to three weeks.
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This will definitely be worth trying.!
And I really appreciate your generosity helping us try higher dose of Tomatidine.
Not many companies would "design" extra product for customers :)
 
JakeAntaeus said:
This is very much appreciated.

I know that you can't PM me, but please feel free to email. It's antaeuslabs [ at ] gmail dotcom.

For what it's worth, the ultra-small-batch of high-dosed tomatidine should be ready in roughly two to three weeks.
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Very much looking forward to trying it! :D
 
Came here looking for info but now really curious about HH6. If you had to choose between the two, which would yall choose? And would you recommend a higher dose than listed?
 
skrym said:
Came here looking for info but now really curious about HH6. If you had to choose between the two, which would yall choose? And would you recommend a higher dose than listed?
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Joined 2013 and this is your first post ??
Congratulation man :D!
I believe HH6 is very good stuff but I run 8 caps now at the moment
 
Complex means just simply mixing it unless you are talking cyclodextrins. Bonded means reacted as in a ionic bond or a covalent bond.
 
For cyclodextrins you have a process where you wet the cyclodextrins and the active and the active migrates into the CD. That then can be spray dried or kept in liquid form.
 
EricMarchewitz said:
Complex means just simply mixing it unless you are talking cyclodextrins. Bonded means reacted as in a ionic bond or a covalent bond.
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Well saying the nature of this product is to increase absorption it would have to be BONDED sooo in this case and with cyclodextrins complexed SHOULD mean bonded
 
JakeAntaeus said:
This is very much appreciated.

I know that you can't PM me, but please feel free to email. It's antaeuslabs [ at ] gmail dotcom.

For what it's worth, the ultra-small-batch of high-dosed tomatidine should be ready in roughly two to three weeks.
Click to expand...
Also interested!
 
Danes said:
I know 2 things for sure (after adding HH6 and Tomatidine):

1. More strength
2. More size

In january (prior) starting with HH6/Titan, my T levels was just 6.9 . That is low for a 33 years old male. But without changing the diet or workoutroutine (and even low T levels) My strength is STILL increasing and I have added pretty nice mass. Bodyweight has also increased.

My dad has been very sick/critical since monday last week and it was very depressing. Havent been eating , sleeping ++ properly. But I am still gaining strength.
Click to expand...

my wife and I are both praying for your father---and you!!!
 
Danes said:
Uh, no!

Complexing traps the compound in the complexing agent but it's not creating a new molecule (like bonding)
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Yep like liposomes. However with shiljat my understanding is it needs to be BONDED like cyclodextrin (which they call complexing even though it's actually a bond depending on the molecule)
 
JakeAntaeus said:
This is very much appreciated.

I know that you can't PM me, but please feel free to email. It's antaeuslabs [ at ] gmail dotcom.

For what it's worth, the ultra-small-batch of high-dosed tomatidine should be ready in roughly two to three weeks.
Click to expand...

E-mail sent.
Wow....thank you for offering this alternative method for contacting you!
 
skrym said:
Came here looking for info but now really curious about HH6. If you had to choose between the two, which would yall choose? And would you recommend a higher dose than listed?
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My 2 cents (for what it is worth...which is not much)....HH6 is probably what gave me the magic from my Titan/HH6 combo usage. I believe the recommended dosage of Titan is effective, but the real wow was the HH6. Everyone seems to focus on the ursolic acid in the HH6 as the prime ingredient...I'm going to differ....I actually think it is the vitamin-c derivative that is the real star. Just my speculation.
 
IF I can get the higher dosed Tomatidine, I will still run with HH6. I debated this very thing in my own head for awhile and concluded that my own Titan/HH6 combo at suggested dosages have provided me with a solid baseline already of results. So to compare apples to apples, higher dosed tomatidine will have to be done with the recommended dosage of HH6.....maybe even with Titan to REALLY make it apples to apples (i.e. the ONLY difference in the new experiment would be the addition of more tomatidine).

thoughts?
 
At the risk of now sounding like an Antaeus rep (I'm not), for those of you concerned about the price of Titan and HH6, if you go to their website you will note a couple specials on both items.

My humble apologies to moderators if I'm not supposed to do this (i.e. basically advertise, lol). My intention is simply a public service announcement....and a bit selfish because I want others to try the combo and see how it works for them. In other words.....I want more data.

How do I know? I just bought a crapload of HH6 and more Titan.
 
ws65 said:
Exactly why I want to hear from JakeAntaeus about bonding shilajit with Ursolic Acid to see if he thinks that would work.
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It would certainly work, but I don't think that it would be a good idea. There are four reasons for this.

1. The molar ratio of fulvic acid to ursolic acid should be around, or greater than, 2:1.
3. Shilajit is generally standardized to as much as 60-65% fulvic acids; almost never more than that.
2. Ursolic acid is much less potent than tomatidine. It's at least 5x less potent, and may be more than 10x less potent, depending on who you ask & what you're looking at. This means that relatively high doses are required.
4. It's not a good idea to ingest too much shilajit, due to its high mineral content.

Taken together, we have to come to the conclusion that a moderately effective dose of shilajit-bound UA would deliver excessive amounts of shilajit. Assuming 60% standardization, the ratio in real terms would be something like 1:3 -- so for every 100mg of UA, you're getting 300mg shilajit. Want 300mg UA? Well, that'll be 900mg shilajit! Too much.

This is also how it works for our tomatidine product. A dose is 250mg in total weight, but only 50mg of that is tomatidine, and the rest is shilajit. (We used a slight excess of shilajit to ensure optimal results.)

As we want our products to be long-term safe as well as effective, the (experimental) high-dose tomatidine product we're developing is going to be a mixture of cyclodextrin-complexed and shilajit-bound material.
 
Experimenter said:
At the risk of now sounding like an Antaeus rep (I'm not), for those of you concerned about the price of Titan and HH6, if you go to their website you will note a couple specials on both items.

My humble apologies to moderators if I'm not supposed to do this (i.e. basically advertise, lol). My intention is simply a public service announcement....and a bit selfish because I want others to try the combo and see how it works for them. In other words.....I want more data.

How do I know? I just bought a crapload of HH6 and more Titan.
Click to expand...

Yes, we just posted a small sale. Thanks for the support! :)
 
Experimenter said:
At the risk of now sounding like an Antaeus rep (I'm not), for those of you concerned about the price of Titan and HH6, if you go to their website you will note a couple specials on both items.

My humble apologies to moderators if I'm not supposed to do this (i.e. basically advertise, lol). My intention is simply a public service announcement....and a bit selfish because I want others to try the combo and see how it works for them. In other words.....I want more data.

How do I know? I just bought a crapload of HH6 and more Titan.
Click to expand...

I do agree. I am believer and this combo really works!

I do also believe those positive effects I have got from the stack is due to synergic effect from both products.

I have just 16 days left of this stack.
My goal is to run 500mg tomatidine for 90 days. First 4-6 weeks solo, then last 6-8 weeks stacked with high dose of HH6.
 
JakeAntaeus said:
It would certainly work, but I don't think that it would be a good idea. There are four reasons for this.

1. The molar ratio of fulvic acid to ursolic acid should be around, or greater than, 2:1.
3. Shilajit is generally standardized to as much as 60-65% fulvic acids; almost never more than that.
2. Ursolic acid is much less potent than tomatidine. It's at least 5x less potent, and may be more than 10x less potent, depending on who you ask & what you're looking at. This means that relatively high doses are required.
4. It's not a good idea to ingest too much shilajit, due to its high mineral content.

Taken together, we have to come to the conclusion that a moderately effective dose of shilajit-bound UA would deliver excessive amounts of shilajit. Assuming 60% standardization, the ratio in real terms would be something like 1:3 -- so for every 100mg of UA, you're getting 300mg shilajit. Want 300mg UA? Well, that'll be 900mg shilajit! Too much.

This is also how it works for our tomatidine product. A dose is 250mg in total weight, but only 50mg of that is tomatidine, and the rest is shilajit. (We used a slight excess of shilajit to ensure optimal results.)

As we want our products to be long-term safe as well as effective, the (experimental) high-dose tomatidine product we're developing is going to be a mixture of cyclodextrin-complexed and shilajit-bound material.
Click to expand...
Why is too much Shilajit bad? I took 1 gram before bed yesterday and my pee was dark yellow the following morning. I never realised this? 250mg max per day? Thank you.
 
JakeAntaeus said:
It would certainly work, but I don't think that it would be a good idea. There are four reasons for this.

1. The molar ratio of fulvic acid to ursolic acid should be around, or greater than, 2:1.
3. Shilajit is generally standardized to as much as 60-65% fulvic acids; almost never more than that.
2. Ursolic acid is much less potent than tomatidine. It's at least 5x less potent, and may be more than 10x less potent, depending on who you ask & what you're looking at. This means that relatively high doses are required.
4. It's not a good idea to ingest too much shilajit, due to its high mineral content.

Taken together, we have to come to the conclusion that a moderately effective dose of shilajit-bound UA would deliver excessive amounts of shilajit. Assuming 60% standardization, the ratio in real terms would be something like 1:3 -- so for every 100mg of UA, you're getting 300mg shilajit. Want 300mg UA? Well, that'll be 900mg shilajit! Too much.

This is also how it works for our tomatidine product. A dose is 250mg in total weight, but only 50mg of that is tomatidine, and the rest is shilajit. (We used a slight excess of shilajit to ensure optimal results.)

As we want our products to be long-term safe as well as effective, the (experimental) high-dose tomatidine product we're developing is going to be a mixture of cyclodextrin-complexed and shilajit-bound material.
Click to expand...
Thank you JakeAntaeus for that excellent write-up. I was worried that it would be too much shilajit...how about this, the high dose tomatidine bonded with shilajit and UA complexed with CD?
Having said that, being that tomatidine is so much stronger, my above question is probably moot.
Danes said:
My goal is to run 500mg tomatidine for 90 days. First 4-6 weeks solo, then last 6-8 weeks stacked with high dose of HH6.
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Uncle Danes and I have been discussing this and at that dosing we feel it will rock our world! :D
 
ws65 said:
Thank you JakeAntaeus for that excellent write-up. I was worried that it would be too much shilajit...how about this, the high dose tomatidine bonded with shilajit and UA complexed with CD?
Having said that, being that tomatidine is so much stronger, my above question is probably moot.
Uncle Danes and I have been discussing this and at that dosing we feel it will rock our world! :D
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I cant wait to try this :D
 
Reason why I want that is these absorption methods help absorption but the do not change the solubility after absorption.
 
I'd like to hear what Jake would say about that. Like he said, the problem with the UA is that the tomatidine itself is 5x stronger than UA, but regardless, UA at the dose you suggested would have benefits for sure, however, it is expensive too.
 
ws65 said:
I'd like to hear what Jake would say about that. Like he said, the problem with the UA is that the tomatidine itself is 5x stronger than UA, but regardless, UA at the dose you suggested would have benefits for sure, however, it is expensive too.
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Well they are already using 500mg of ursolic acid in hh6 but ya Arginine Ursolic Acetate would be more expensive
 
rtmilburn said:
Well they are already using 500mg of ursolic acid in hh6 but ya Arginine Ursolic Acetate would be more expensive
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4 caps of HH6 (the recommended dose)is 500mg of UA+CD.
So actually we dont know how much UA it actually is :)

I would also like to try high dose of UA complexed with CD. I do believe it would give synergic effect with Tomatidine
 
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