Well the numbers are 1100/91. Which BASICALLY means that Epistane should be 11 times as Anabolic as it is Androgenic.
However, that is not my (or many others') experience with the compound. It gives some Androgenic sides, tends to lean you out, and is anti-Estrogenic to a degree. Which would point to it being very Androgenic.
And it is not a huge mass gainer for most. Which would tend to show that it isn't very Anabolic in nature.
If I remember correctly, it is a DHT derivative, same as anavar, and winstrol, which is where it gets its Anti-Estrogenic properties, none of those compounds are extremely androgenic in nature. None of them are considered mass monsters either. Remember that changing a compound even slightly can change its behavior completely. Think Eq/Bold and DBol small structural change, huge difference in action... So although DHT is the most androgenic compound, many of it's derivatives are actually only mildly androgenic.
Just because something might be 11 times more anabolic than it is androgenic does not mean that it is a strong anabolic, just that the anabolic properties were 11 times higher ratio to the androgenic properties. However in this case the numbers imply it is a strong anabolic and it has been for everyone I have seen run it. They may not realize it due to skewed expectations but it is obviously far more anabolic mg per mg compared to testosterone!!!!
Also it hasn't really been my experience that Epistane leans people out, it is a dry compound so no wetness associated with it. Other than that it doesn't lean anyone out through any specific trait or property. Similar to Winstrol which people use to lean out but it is not very androgenic either. It has more to do with how people tend to use it because it is a dry compound, and that lends it to cutting. I believe that is part of the impression a lot of the people who say they don't gain well on epistane is that you almost always see it ran specifically for cutting or a recomp. It has been pigeon holed into being a cut / recomp compound but if you eat with intent to gain it tends to shine pretty good without a lot of water to hide the results.
Now alternatively, Tren is highly androgenic, and it is the actual androgenic action on the AR in fat cells that makes it so great for fat burning. That is due to a specific action of the compound. The typical leaning out from epistane use is different in that epistane doesn't really do anything specific to the AR in fat cells. You just tend to use more energy building muscle like on any cycle and that helps with fat loss. Other than that which is true of most steroids the IMPLIED leaning out effect from epistane has more to do with how it is often executed, rather than a property that makes it a more efficient fat loss compound.
I see people gaining a dry 8-12lbs of LBM on epistane cycles all the time while RECOMPING. IE eating at a maintenance level. That is seriously anabolic... I can't remember the last time I saw someone run Epistane as a bulk, eating in a surplus the whole time...
Epi is more androgenic than Var?!?! I find that hard to believe. Maybe though. I have a bottle, I'm going to run it here soon...its the only DS I haven't ran besides MSten
Might be, although that is not saying much at all... not much out there isn't.
I'm a little confused why people think of epistane as androgenic cause there's no studies suggesting that. The anabolic/androgenic ratios are misleading but they do tell us quite well how androgenic they would be in terms of hairloss, viralization etc.
Because there are mixed reviews and opinions on the compound. Although I have had very different experiences running epistane, different enough to lead me to the belief that a lot of what is sold as Epistane could be tainted with other DS, be a completely different DS or have some other quality control issue. Lets not pretend the people running Designer Steroid labs are good solid people with lots of integrity or quality control. I know a few people over the last several years that got a Chinese source and started selling designer steroids without doing anything more than having it capped, and slapped into a bottle with a label. A lot of these guys that only make designer steroids are in it for the quick money and get out when the boom is over. Quality not a concern so much as profitability.
That being said, in this instance it is not that epistane does not provide androgenic properties that makes it considered an anabolic rather than androgenic compound. It has plenty androgenic properties, but the anabolic properties far outweigh the androgenic properties. So it is considered an anabolic compound. If the androgenic side were higher it would be considered an androgenic compound, even if the anabolic side was still plenty anabolic.
I noticed MASSIVE hair loss after an epistane/ trest cycle. I know trest is quite androgenic, but I didn’t notice the same loss when running trest solo or with Tbol.
I personally feel epistane is very androgenic too. Based on hair loss and gym aggression
Trest does not aromatize into DHT so you wouldn't see a lot of hair falling out unless you had another compound that does aromatize into DHT. Epistane is a derivative of DHT that still has a lot of the same structure, so hairloss can definitely happen for those who are highly sensitive to DHT induced hairloss.
In the end though, who really knows? May not be anything dirty, or shady going on with all the different experiences. We are all so different that how sensitive one person is to the androgenic properties of Epistane can be completely different expression than how it expresses itself in someone else. Also there are too many bastardized forms of the anabolic / androgenic ratio to consider... so you have to know which one you are even looking at.
The one that seems pretty standard is that Testosterone is 100:100
If that 1100:91 ratio is listed correctly then it is stating that Epistane is 11 times more anabolic than testosterone, and 91% as androgenic as testosterone on a mg per mg basis... So if running a decent dose of Epistane there is no reason to think there would not be androgenic sides. Once you increase the dose over a certain level the androgenic effects which are the ones that cause the most sides are really going to start popping up more and more.
As far as the anabolic properties, well they are definitely way above testosterone, but you are not going to get 11 times more growth from it. You will get a lot more growth than testosterone will give you mg per mg.
These are some pretty average gains for people eating in a moderate surplus cycling either of these.
Run a 30mg cycle of Epistane for a 6 weeks and
gain 8-12lbs lbm at 210mg a week... 1260mg total gear used
Testosterone E or C cycle for 12 weeks @ 600mg a week
gain 8-12lbs lbm... 7200mg total gear used
When you look at it mathematically it is quite obviously far more anabolic than testosterone!!!!
However even with how much lower the ratio of androgenic effects is, it is still at 91% of what testosterone is regarding androgenic properties. At 90% as androgenic 420mg Epistane a week, 60mg a day should be as androgenic as 378mg of test a week. That ain't a lot but enough to experience sides for many.
it must of been a wreck.
