TMG TRI METHYL GLYCINE -WHATS ITS ROLE IN A SPORTS DRINK?
- Thread starter corsaking
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Whacked
Well-known member
TMG is one of the cheapest supps out there that is able to provide a very important effect: Homocysteine regulation. Many anti-aging Docs/scientists atrtributre this (along with elevated CRP) with THE cardinal indicators for CVD/heart disease and impending risks.
I have been taking the tasteless powder along with Taurine (also tasteless with a wide variety of benefits) for years now (Beyond-a-Century . com)
I am sure the amount of TMG in these sports shakes does little but I imagine it's better than nothing.
As an aside, I recall reading somewhere that TMG also fascilitates creatine forming or use in the body or something.
I have been taking the tasteless powder along with Taurine (also tasteless with a wide variety of benefits) for years now (Beyond-a-Century . com)
I am sure the amount of TMG in these sports shakes does little but I imagine it's better than nothing.
As an aside, I recall reading somewhere that TMG also fascilitates creatine forming or use in the body or something.
rms80
Board Sponsor
We use it in Lit-Up to provide a source of methylation for the SAM-e cycle- and it can convert to DMG, and then sarcosine post-methylation. Sarcosine binds to the NR-1 receptor on the NMDAR, so it is a logical choice to take along with DAA, since you need NR-1 and NR-2 binding to have an optimal response from the NMDAR.
TMG also has a good mood-boosting effect if taken with the right combo of things, and it may be creatine-sparing as well....
TMG also has a good mood-boosting effect if taken with the right combo of things, and it may be creatine-sparing as well....
MidwestBeast
Legend
Lots of info in very few posts...I like it :yup:
rms80
Board Sponsor
Here is some more- this is from the Lit-Up tech write-up- talks about the DAA/TMG/sarcosine connection, as well as the SAM-e cycle:
- . D-Serine, D-Alanine, D-Cycloserine, and Sarcosine (N-Methyl Glycine) are compounds that have potential, in that each of these compounds can act as a ligand of the NR-1 binding site. N-Methyl Glycine is most likely the best choice in this situation, in that it limits GT1 action, thus limiting the removal of glycine from the synapse, and also because it is a ligand/co-agonist of the NR-1 binding site. This means that N-Methyl Glycine can also act on the NR-1 glycine receptor as well as GT1, making it a very effective co-agonist to the NMDA receptor. When both NR-1 and NR-2 have been successfully bound with low GT1 activity, optimal stimulation of the NMDA receptor can occur, allowing for a maximal physiological response and optimal product effectiveness (5,7-8,16).
- However, yet another compound, N,N,N-trimethylglycine (TMG) serves a multi-faceted function in a similar way to N-Methyl Glycine, D-Alanine, and D-Serine. TMG can be directly converted by the liver to the NR-1 agonist N-Methyl Glycine, which means that Lit-Up™ effectively allows for a the co-agonist of the NMDA receptor to be present. However, it must first undergo a simple enzymatic conversion, which is accomplished by acting as a methyl donor. (See Figure 4 below). This means that it donates extra methyl groups to other molecules, via the methylation pathway (which enhances product quality) because the methylation pathway is responsible for the production of neurotransmitters, the structure and function of DNA, and the metabolism of fats. The conversion of TMG to N-Methyl Glycine is very efficient, therefore giving the Lit-Up™ formulation excellent co-ligand enhancement for the NMDA receptor to work in conjunction with the D-Aspartic Acid. TMG has also been shown in recent human studies to have the ability to increase creatine storage within muscle cells (1-5, 16-17,61-63).
- When the NMDA binding sites are triggered in the hypothalamus by DAA and its co-agonist (in this case N-Methyl Glycine), there is an increase in cyclic guanosine monophosphate (cGMP) activity in the pituitary. cGMP is classified as a second messenger, meaning that it exerts its effects by acting in a manner secondary and in response to a first messenger signaling molecule. When the first messenger signaling molecules bind to a receptor (in this case, D-Aspartic Acid and its co-agonist bind to NR-1 and NR-2), the secondary pathway is activated that increases cGMP production. The heightened levels of cGMP in the pituitary correspond to an increased production of gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH), and growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH). The resulting increase in GHRH from stimulation of the NMDA receptor also allows increased amounts of growth hormone (GH) to be secreted from the pituitary, while an increase in GnRH subsequently signals the pituitary to release luteinizing hormone (LH), and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) (see figure 2). This increase in LH and FSH allows for an increase in steroidogenesis in the testes, which subsequently allows for the production of increased amounts of testosterone, as explained below ((1-3,10-13,43,45,59-60,75-77).
- Luteinizing Hormone, via receptors found on the surface of Leydig cells (a type of cell that helps produce testosterone) in the testes, controls the production and secretion of testosterone. The subsequent binding of LH with its receptor on the Leydig cell allows a signal to be sent through the cyclic AMP (another type of second messenger) pathway. Once this signaling occurs, the protein kinase A pathway is then activated, and this ultimately allows for the release of testosterone after 30-60 minutes of LH stimulation (42-43,108-109).
- As you can see in Figure 4, Trimethylglycine (also known as Betaine), ATP, and SAM-e directly function within the pathway, albeit in different segments and capacities; each of which add to product effectiveness. TMG has been shown have positive effects on muscular strength, as well as having the ability to form sarcosine (an NMDA receptor co-agonist) and act as a methyl donor to fuel SAM-e formation. TMG acts in the following fashion as a methyl donor and in the SAM-e pathway (50-54,64-68,118):
- TMG donates a methyl group during the formation of SAM-e, and becomes DMG (N-N-dimethylglycine).
- The donated methyl group can then form SAM-e, or be used for the production of neurotransmitters, the production of DNA, or the metabolism of fats
- The remaining DMG is then converted readily by the liver to the NR-1 agonist N-Methyl Glycine via glycine N-methyltransferase.
- The addition of Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP) is important, in that furthers the production of SAM-e from methionine, and is used by the body to create energy, and can be used as a substrate during the SAM-e cycle.
- Intracellular ATP can be used for the following functions:
- It is a key cellular energy source and can regulate cellular proteins
- It can act as a donor for adenylyl and phosphate groups and act as an intermediate in biochemical reactions
- ATP ingested orally has been shown to increase ATP levels in the liver, blood plasma, and red blood cells. Some recent studies have shown that ingestion of oral ATP can help fuel several different biochemical reactions that are important in both the SAM-e cycle and cellular health (102-103,106-107,126).
- SAM-e is a combination of ATP and methionine, and has some pronounced effects in several different areas relevant to increased product effectiveness:
- SAM-e also exerts strong effects on increasing Hydrogen Sulfide (H²S) Production, which increases NMDA receptor activity and has been shown to be synergistic with Nitric Oxide (NO) in terms of vasodilation. A great deal of the most recent research on erectile dysfunction drugs is focusing on this pathway.
- The compound has strong mood-enhancing effects via increasing serotonin and dopamine in the brain
- SAM-e has been shown to have some very positive effects on joint health and regeneration (102-103,106-107,126)
- The metabolism SAM-e can go one of several directions:
- It has the ability to form Hydrogen Sulfide (H²S) or glutathione via conversion to cysteine, which is then converted to H²S via Cystathione Beta Synthase (CBS), where it can be converted into glutathione.
- The conversion of cysteine to glutathione during the SAM-e cycle is relevant to the product, in that glutathione is a strong testicular anti-oxidant that has been shown to have the ability to increase protein synthesis and detoxify the testes. This results in conditions that are extremely favorable for optimal testosterone production.
- The formation of H²S from cysteine is largely dependent on Vitamin B-6 and SAM-e levels. Both components act to increase CBS activity, allowing for a greater formation of H²S. When H²S is formed, it allows for intracellular increases in cyclic AMP (cAMP) and increased NMDA receptor activity, both of which are considered strong signals for increasing testosterone levels as well, as discussed earlier.
- Similarly, due to the inclusion of folic acid and cobalamin (Vitamin B12) in LIT-Up, the formulation has the ability to complete the cycle when SAM-e levels become depleted, allowing the body to re-form methionine. Once methionine is reformed, the cycle can begin again with the substrates provided within Lit-Up™.
- The SAM-e molecule has the ability to complete the cycle when tissue SAM-e levels become depleted, allowing the body to re-form methionine, and restart the cycle (102-103,106-107,126)
criticalbench
Legend
I take this stuff for liver health, I need to look into bulk powders though because i think its going to be a staple along with my nac!
Whacked
Well-known member
poison
Board Sponsor
SAN Dr Feel Good has a healthy dose of NAC (and DMG).
rms80
Board Sponsor
Maybe down the road- people just don't seem to like non-stim pre-wo's that much, unfortunately
Antabolix
New member
I agree. I don't normally like stims before my workout..and if I do use anything, I like to regulate my own amount as opposed to the manufacturer choosing how much to put in a serving size. It gives me alot more flexibility to be able to take a pre workout shake, and then decide how much, if any, stimulants I want to use along with it. I'm sure alot of people like stimulants included in a drink, but I dont and it's actually kind of a pet peeve lol. I actually tend to avoid pre workout shakes that have stimulants included.
SweetLou321
Well-known member
Lit-up is amazing as is. Its not a strong stim but its all I need.
criticalbench
Legend
Thats what I do - it's tasteless.
How many mgs bro?
rms80
Board Sponsor
You guys definitely raise valid points- I have been formulating products for six years, first for USP Labs (I was the co-founder with Jacob, formulation was a dual role when I was there), and now for Applied (which I co-own), and I have gotten numerous requests for a product like this. These requests were why I developed Drive (with some help from Bioman, who used to be a mod on AM) in the first place- as a non-stimulant alternative to RPM. Drive works great as a pre-workout, but I wouldn't suggest busting the capsules open to make it a shake (very nasty), LOL.
When you think of a decent stim-free pre-workout, what would you like to see? DMG and TMG obviously come to mind, because they do have some decent energetic effects without being a conventional stimulant. Lit-Up w/o the stim content would actually work fairly well for this purpose- maybe something to think about in the future. Lower dose carnitines are also good for this, and huperzine-A is a good choice as well. I would try to stay away from herbals in a drink mix as much as possible- it has to be palatable for everyone- nobody wants to take something that tastes like ****, no matter how well it works. DMAE is a good choice as well- it has been shown to increase cognitive blood flow substantially. You would almost want to take a nootropic approach to this formulation- focus without overstimulation. Something like a piracetam or aniracetam comes to mind, but they are being closely watched by the US FDA at the moment, so they would be out.
What do you guys think would make a good non-stim pre-workout?
When you think of a decent stim-free pre-workout, what would you like to see? DMG and TMG obviously come to mind, because they do have some decent energetic effects without being a conventional stimulant. Lit-Up w/o the stim content would actually work fairly well for this purpose- maybe something to think about in the future. Lower dose carnitines are also good for this, and huperzine-A is a good choice as well. I would try to stay away from herbals in a drink mix as much as possible- it has to be palatable for everyone- nobody wants to take something that tastes like ****, no matter how well it works. DMAE is a good choice as well- it has been shown to increase cognitive blood flow substantially. You would almost want to take a nootropic approach to this formulation- focus without overstimulation. Something like a piracetam or aniracetam comes to mind, but they are being closely watched by the US FDA at the moment, so they would be out.
What do you guys think would make a good non-stim pre-workout?
jdrannin1
Member
Arachidonic acid pre-workout is excellent. Hard to flavor I hear.
Whacked
Well-known member
The stuff is cheap so I use 4-5 grams a day
Anything to lower homocysteine values (lower CVD risk) is invaluable. For me, this (along with CRP; C-reactive protein) are better indicators of cardiovascular risk/health than lipid profiles all day long.
I simply dump one 1/2 teaspoon 1.5 grams in 3 shakes per day (am, mid mornign and pm) - one of which is simply my BCAA peri-workout mix (so 4.5 grams daily)
Overkill? Probably LOL but it's cheap.
I do the same with Taurine as sadly, that is another UN-SEXY supplemnent that gets no no credit and it barely discussed.
It is also tasteless and CHEAP. I use it similarly, all day long to ensure levels are adequate/replenished.
For a bodybuilder or endurance athlete, Taurine should be a staple. Read about it's benefits.
Sorry - rant over.
Anything to lower homocysteine values (lower CVD risk) is invaluable. For me, this (along with CRP; C-reactive protein) are better indicators of cardiovascular risk/health than lipid profiles all day long.
I simply dump one 1/2 teaspoon 1.5 grams in 3 shakes per day (am, mid mornign and pm) - one of which is simply my BCAA peri-workout mix (so 4.5 grams daily)
Overkill? Probably LOL but it's cheap.
I do the same with Taurine as sadly, that is another UN-SEXY supplemnent that gets no no credit and it barely discussed.
It is also tasteless and CHEAP. I use it similarly, all day long to ensure levels are adequate/replenished.
For a bodybuilder or endurance athlete, Taurine should be a staple. Read about it's benefits.
Sorry - rant over.
Whacked
Well-known member
criticalbench
Legend
The stuff is cheap so I use 4-5 grams a day
Anything to lower homocysteine values (lower CVD risk) is invaluable. For me, this (along with CRP; C-reactive protein) are better indicators of cardiovascular risk/health than lipid profiles all day long.
I simply dump one 1/2 teaspoon 1.5 grams in 3 shakes per day (am, mid mornign and pm) - one of which is simply my BCAA peri-workout mix (so 4.5 grams daily)
Overkill? Probably LOL but it's cheap.
I do the same with Taurine as sadly, that is another UN-SEXY supplemnent that gets no no credit and it barely discussed.
It is also tasteless and CHEAP. I use it similarly, all day long to ensure levels are adequate/replenished.
For a bodybuilder or endurance athlete, Taurine should be a staple. Read about it's benefits.
Sorry - rant over.
I use taurine as well, prolly too much. 2g in AM, 5g PWO, 2g PM. I need to order some more bulk powders this week, so TMG is on my list! Thanks bro, really appreciate it!
Mike
rms80
Board Sponsor
That would be a pretty good combo- I would low dose the choline and ALCAR- they both increase ACh levels, and too much ACh can be inhibitory. I like vinpo for its PDE-inhibiting qualities, plus it is good for ATP production....
