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Thumbs down for MDHT (methyl rage)

Strateg0s said:
LOL. That's well put Jayhawkk. I am hoping you don't die from all that M1T you've guzzled.

As for GC and MP tests, I know that they are not in themselves proof positive in terms that would satisfy an analytic chemist. You ignored every one of my points. --- Either it is an amazing coincidence, or a premeditated attempt to screw everyone.

So, are you willing to attribute to the chemists hired to synthesize MDHT that they screwed it up, and screwed it up in just such a way that the GC and MP correlate with what MDHT ought to be? What a coincidence. ... If not that, then are you willing to say that all of the businesses that ordered MDHT, Sledge, Patrick Arnold, Custom, other people, they all ordered something else, but just labelled it (mwahahah!) MDHT to screw everyone. Sure. But if so, why didn't PA just say that he had it compared to an analytic standard, and everything was kosher?
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The point is ...its shitty testing.
And x-muscle just proved that you dont know what you're talking about. I have seen you on a couple boards posting nonsense and regurgitating everything you hear. Please stop.
 
It doesn't really seem to make me more aggressive in the gym, but I do seem to have more energy/endurance. I have noticed an overall increase in agression though (more aggressive throughout the entire day)
 
I have no doubt it is real m-dht. i have used real proviron in the past and it feels the same. you don't really get "amped" off of it, but you do get faster CNS recovery. this effect takes a while to really notice. even with the real stuff, the benifit is from synergy with other compounds. it is a good choice to run with deca if you don't want to run test.
 
jah_live10 said:
The point is ...its shitty testing. And x-muscle just proved that you dont know what you're talking about. I have seen you on a couple boards posting nonsense and regurgitating everything you hear. Please stop.
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Stop being a tool. I never said that GC + MP will give any sort of *absolutely definitive* proof that the compound is what it says it is ... you moron. You ignored every one of my points, (I suspect this has something to do with you being a moron). What possible reason have you come up with such that anyone should believe that the MDHT on the market, available from no less than four different vendors, is not MDHT at all? Because people aren't finding it as effective as they expected? That might be sufficient, probably not. Have each and every one of the vendors ordered something other than MDHT, but labelled it MDHT? Had the chem house(s) been given orders for MDHT and instead made something different? Something which just happens to have the exact same single spike and melting point that that MDHT ought to have? Wow, what a coincidence... If you're such a smart guy, why don't you figure out something that could have the exact same molecular weight AND melting point AND could conceiveably be mistakenly produced in an attempt to make MDHT. Short of that, why don't you just call Patrick Arnold, Sledge, and whoever else put out MDHT, that they are scammers. You are a hairsplitting splotch of fecal matter. My qualified endorsement of PA's testing method has more justification behind it than you have for failing to OD.

If a person comes home and there is a woman that looks like his wife, and when he asks her a few questions, she responds like she is his wife, chances are that she really is his wife -- "AH!" says Jah_Live "But she MIGHT NOT be!!" -- Do you want an animal cracker for your efforts, you conspiracy theory retard? I'll go by the "unfounded, regurgitated assumption" that this woman is not some evil clone dropped of by a black helicopter which kidnapped the man's real wife.

If you've got any other regurgitations of mine that you would like to bring up, now is the time, because current tally you look like quite an ass.
 
Well, I just started taking 32mg of M4OHN and 100mg of MDHT (Custom's Methyl-Jacked). Each are split into 4 even doses, 8AM, 12PM, 4PM, and 8PM.

Sorry I'm not using either on their own. I feel they compliment each other well at least on paper, even if MDHT doesn't give aggression due to MDHT's anti-estrogenic properties.


Anyway, I'll tell yall how it goes in a cycle log.
 
lancelot said:
only if you take my 2g of M-dien as well.
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For real? I'm dead serious. I don't know what I have to trade, other then 6g M1,4ADD powder, 1g of M5AA powder, and about 7g worth of 40mg/ml M1T/PEG-400 solution. PM me if you wanna work something out.
 
supersoldier said:
For real? I'm dead serious. I don't know what I have to trade, other then 6g M1,4ADD powder, 1g of M5AA powder, and about 7g worth of 40mg/ml M1T/PEG-400 solution. PM me if you wanna work something out.
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i've got a bunch of pm's already. it'll be all up for trade only in dec so no more pm's please. i'm still making my trade list. I've got 7g M4OHN, 2g MD, and 3 bottles lipo ultra all sealed and unopened. my powders are DS brand unopened. i don't know why you guys are so hard up for my M4oHN when you can just buy it from custom.
 
Strateg0s said:
Stop being a tool. I never said that GC + MP will give any sort of *absolutely definitive* proof that the compound is what it says it is ... you moron. You ignored every one of my points, (I suspect this has something to do with you being a moron). What possible reason have you come up with such that anyone should believe that the MDHT on the market, available from no less than four different vendors, is not MDHT at all? Because people aren't finding it as effective as they expected? That might be sufficient, probably not. Have each and every one of the vendors ordered something other than MDHT, but labelled it MDHT? Had the chem house(s) been given orders for MDHT and instead made something different? Something which just happens to have the exact same single spike and melting point that that MDHT ought to have? Wow, what a coincidence... If you're such a smart guy, why don't you figure out something that could have the exact same molecular weight AND melting point AND could conceiveably be mistakenly produced in an attempt to make MDHT. Short of that, why don't you just call Patrick Arnold, Sledge, and whoever else put out MDHT, that they are scammers. You are a hairsplitting splotch of fecal matter. My qualified endorsement of PA's testing method has more justification behind it than you have for failing to OD.

If a person comes home and there is a woman that looks like his wife, and when he asks her a few questions, she responds like she is his wife, chances are that she really is his wife -- "AH!" says Jah_Live "But she MIGHT NOT be!!" -- Do you want an animal cracker for your efforts, you conspiracy theory retard? I'll go by the "unfounded, regurgitated assumption" that this woman is not some evil clone dropped of by a black helicopter which kidnapped the man's real wife.

If you've got any other regurgitations of mine that you would like to bring up, now is the time, because current tally you look like quite an ass.
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I guess when you lose an argument....you can always turn to childish name calling and insults.
PA and X-muscle already took you to school....so just stop.
 
It's one thing to doubt a compound's effectiveness, but jah, you're very snide about it. You go beyond doubting a compound's effectiveness to insulting the people who purchased and/or used those compounds. That's not cool.
 
Nullifidian said:
It's one thing to doubt a compound's effectiveness, but jah, you're very snide about it. You go beyond doubting a compound's effectiveness to insulting the people who purchased and/or used those compounds. That's not cool.
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You're right.
 
For what it is worth, I am a skeptic and a cynic. On top of that, I'm a hardgainer/ecto and generally a non-responder. I'll tell you this; M5 did nothing for me at 100mg/day. M-DHT IS working for me, 2+ weeks in. Hardness, tightness, and vascularity are quite apparent. So there...
 
ok guys here what Big cat had to say about MDHT:

Well four things that methylation will do :

- Increase the half-life time considerably, since it is not as easily broken down. Most 17AA tablets only have to be taken once a day (even though some people prefer two or more times) so your half-life theory of two hour is pretty much out the window, I think even plain DHT has more than that.

- Seriously affect your liver, without affecting, or possibly even negatively affecting anabolism. Meaning this drug has potentially less anabolic qualties than DHT and it will do more damage to your liver

- Increase GR density, possibly causing more muscle loss after you are done, than muscle gain while you were taking it.

- Decrease affinity for binding proteins as well as the AR, and given its normal affinity for both, I'd say that cancels out any chance of it being less androgenic than normal DHT.

In short, what I'm tryiong to say is, I can't see why anyone would take this.
 
posted by Nandi

One of the claims on the bottles of MethylRage is that it burns fat.

We know that Hormone Sensitive Lipase is responsible for lipolysis, or the breakdown of fats. Lipoprotein Lipase on the other hand controls the entry of fatty acids into adipocytes where along with glycerol they are stored as fat.

Lowering HSL and raising LPL levels leads to fat accumulation. This is exactly what DHT does in subcutaneous abdominal tissue.

Diabetes Obes Metab. 2002 May;4(3):209-13. Related Articles, Links


The regulation of HSL and LPL expression by DHT and flutamide in human subcutaneous adipose tissue.

Anderson LA, McTernan PG, Harte AL, Barnett AH, Kumar S.

Department of Medicine, University of Birmingham, Division of Medical Sciences, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK.

Clinical observations suggest a role for testosterone in the accumulation of central adiposity and with an associated increased risk of disease. To date, no human study has analysed the role of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) on adipose tissue mass regulation in vitro. This study investigated the role of DHT and androgen receptors (AR) in the regulation of lipolysis and lipogenesis by examining the key enzymes hormone sensitive lipase (HSL) and lipoprotein lipase (LPL) respectively. Isolated abdominal subcutaneous adipocytes (Scad) (n = 15) were treated with either DHT (10(-7)-10(-9) m), an antiandrogen, flutamide (FLT: 10(-7)-10(-9) m) or a combination of DHT (10(-7)-10(-9) m) with FLT (10(-8) m). Relative protein expression of HSL, LPL and AR was determined. In Scad, DHT inhibited HSL expression maximally at 10(-9) m (0.7 +/- 0.4**; p < 0.01**) compared with control (control: 1.0 +/- (s.e.m.) 0.0), whereas LPL protein expression was stimulated at DHT10(-9) m (2.22 +/- 0.48*; p < 0.05*). Glycerol release assay results correlated with HSL expression data. LPL expression was reduced at all doses with combinations of DHT + FLT compared with DHT alone. Androgen receptor expression studies showed an inverse correlation with DHT, whereas DHT + FLT reduced AR expression. These studies indicate that DHT may alter HSL and LPL expression, whereas only LPL expression appears mediated by AR. These findings suggest a physiological role for DHT in the control of adipose tissue mass in women, and indicate that androgens may also play an important role in regulating lipid metabolism.
 
Interesting. But an additional question here is whether or not this is the trend throughout the body our just in the central region. By this I mean, does DHT actually contribute to the accumulation of body fat throughout the body or only contributes to the addition of body fat in the abdominal region while reducing fat in other areas of the body thus accounting for the male body fat distribution while not actually resulting in an increase in overall body fat percentage.


Mr.50
 
Mr. 50 has a very good point.

In fact, though I may not be reading the study results directly, all it says is that more fat seems to be distrubuted to the abdominal region while not necessarily saying there is an actual increase in fat percentage. So it may very well be that it does in fact help decrease overall fat, but any fat storage that does happen is put in the abdominal area.
 
if you read the study its says that MDHT effects the Hormone Sensitive Lipase enzyme which is responsible for lipolysis, or the breakdown of fats

MDHT plays an important role in regulating lipid metabolism, and this study case indicates that MDHT slows downs break down of fats in abdominal tissue.

so bottom line it will make it harder to loss weghit while on a diet, but i agree study is not that clear.
 
It specifically says it only for abdominal tissue. And we KNOW that fat distribution is most definitely hormonally influenced. It would actually make sense that most extremely androgenic steroids would increase a tendancy for male-pattern fat distribution.

I bet you though if you took measurements of female distribution spots, like hips and butt, it would show a significant decrease in fat distribution and an increase in fat mobilization.
 
Nullifidian said:
It specifically says it only for abdominal tissue. And we KNOW that fat distribution is most definitely hormonally influenced. It would actually make sense that most extremely androgenic steroids would increase a tendancy for male-pattern fat distribution.

I bet you though if you took measurements of female distribution spots, like hips and butt, it would show a significant decrease in fat distribution and an increase in fat mobilization.
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if you read last part....it says, the study is done on women
 
Well studies on paper are great and have their place their is no replacement for real world results. I can tell you I've been on close to 3 weeks now and while taking in a surplus of calories I'm actualy loosing fat. Or at least it appears that way since the definition in my abs is getting clearer. Also I'm getting stronger faster than I would bulking without anything. I'm on 100mgs ed and plan on running it 6 weeks.
 
Great point X

X,

That is the perfect point X. Sorry I missed that. This study basically does not mean anything for all of us (assuming "us" are men; and I don't think any women should be using MDHT). There is no telling if the gene expression caused by AR activation results in the same phenotypic expression in women as it does in men.

Mr. 50
 
I have to say that I for one don't agree with Big Cat's response except for partially with #1. With that said I would love to see any references of studies he has for his assertions.


Mr.50
 
"- Seriously affect your liver, without affecting, or possibly even negatively affecting anabolism. Meaning this drug has potentially less anabolic qualties than DHT and it will do more damage to your liver

- Increase GR density, possibly causing more muscle loss after you are done, than muscle gain while you were taking it.

- Decrease affinity for binding proteins as well as the AR, and given its normal affinity for both, I'd say that cancels out any chance of it being less androgenic than normal DHT."

What exactly is GR density, and is there any study to back this up?

I thought studies showed MDHT to me more anabolic than DHT, not less, despite his theorizing?

"causing more muscle loss after you are done, than muscle gain while you were taking it." Huh? How so?
 
GR density is Glutocorticoid receptor density (catabolic). I have not seen any studies to prove this. If it was true it could cause more muscle loss after use.


Mr.50
 
glucocorticoid receptor = (GR)

glucocorticoid hormones are like cortisone and cortisol, these are catabolic hormones, but play an importanat role in the body.

well i dont know why big cat said that, but i found study that andicates the opposite of what he said. i will ask him this question at cuttingedgemuscle board where he posted that.



Sports Med. 2004;34(8):513-54. Related Articles, Links


Effects of androgenic-anabolic steroids in athletes.

Hartgens F, Kuipers H.

Department of Surgery, Outpatient Clinic Sports Medicine, University Hospital Maastricht, and Sports Medicine Center Maastricht, Maastricht, The Netherlands. [email protected]

Androgenic-anabolic steroids (AAS) are synthetic derivatives of the male hormone testosterone. They can exert strong effects on the human body that may be beneficial for athletic performance. A review of the literature revealed that most laboratory studies did not investigate the actual doses of AAS currently abused in the field. Therefore, those studies may not reflect the actual (adverse) effects of steroids. The available scientific literature describes that short-term administration of these drugs by athletes can increase strength and bodyweight. Strength gains of about 5-20% of the initial strength and increments of 2-5 kg bodyweight, that may be attributed to an increase of the lean body mass, have been observed. A reduction of fat mass does not seem to occur. Although AAS administration may affect erythropoiesis and blood haemoglobin concentrations, no effect on endurance performance was observed. Little data about the effects of AAS on metabolic responses during exercise training and recovery are available and, therefore, do not allow firm conclusions. The main untoward effects of short- and long-term AAS abuse that male athletes most often self-report are an increase in sexual drive, the occurrence of acne vulgaris, increased body hair and increment of aggressive behaviour. AAS administration will disturb the regular endogenous production of testosterone and gonadotrophins that may persist for months after drug withdrawal. Cardiovascular risk factors may undergo deleterious alterations, including elevation of blood pressure and depression of serum high-density lipoprotein (HDL)-, HDL2- and HDL3-cholesterol levels. In echocardiographic studies in male athletes, AAS did not seem to affect cardiac structure and function, although in animal studies these drugs have been observed to exert hazardous effects on heart structure and function. In studies of athletes, AAS were not found to damage the liver. Psyche and behaviour seem to be strongly affected by AAS. Generally, AAS seem to induce increments of aggression and hostility. Mood disturbances (e.g. depression, [hypo-]mania, psychotic features) are likely to be dose and drug dependent. AAS dependence or withdrawal effects (such as depression) seem to occur only in a small number of AAS users. Dissatisfaction with the body and low self-esteem may lead to the so-called 'reverse anorexia syndrome' that predisposes to the start of AAS use. Many other adverse effects have been associated with AAS misuse, including disturbance of endocrine and immune function, alterations of sebaceous system and skin, changes of haemostatic system and urogenital tract. One has to keep in mind that the scientific data may underestimate the actual untoward effects because of the relatively low doses administered in those studies, since they do not approximate doses used by illicit steroid users. The mechanism of action of AAS may differ between compounds because of variations in the steroid molecule and affinity to androgen receptors. Several pathways of action have been recognised. The enzyme 5-alpha-reductase seems to play an important role by converting AAS into dihydrotestosterone (DHT-androstanolone) that acts in the cell nucleus of target organs, such as male accessory glands, skin and prostate. Other mechanisms comprises mediation by the enzyme aromatase that converts AAS in female sex hormones (estradiol and estrone), antagonistic action to estrogens and a competitive antagonism to the glucocorticoid receptors. Furthermore, AAS stimulate erythropoietin synthesis and red cell production as well as bone formation but counteract bone breakdown. The effects on the cardiovascular system are proposed to be mediated by the occurrence of AAS-induced atherosclerosis (due to unfavourable influence on serum lipids and lipoproteins), thrombosis, vasospasm or direct injury to vessel walls, or may be ascribed to a combination of the different mechanisms. AAS-induced increment of muscle tissue can be attributed to hypertrophy and the formation of new muscle fibres, in which key roles are played by satellite cell number and ultrastructure, androgen receptors and myonuclei. Copyright 2004 Adis Data Information BV
 
Brodus said:
"- Seriously affect your liver, without affecting, or possibly even negatively affecting anabolism. Meaning this drug has potentially less anabolic qualties than DHT and it will do more damage to your liver

- Increase GR density, possibly causing more muscle loss after you are done, than muscle gain while you were taking it.

- Decrease affinity for binding proteins as well as the AR, and given its normal affinity for both, I'd say that cancels out any chance of it being less androgenic than normal DHT."

What exactly is GR density, and is there any study to back this up?

I thought studies showed MDHT to me more anabolic than DHT, not less, despite his theorizing?

"causing more muscle loss after you are done, than muscle gain while you were taking it." Huh? How so?
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Big Cat tends to exagerate.
 
He's probably a proponent of the inject-only school of thought, which is certainly the best way, if you're using AAS and don't mind injecting and are more hardcore in general (i.e. looking to compete). From that perspective, methyl's probably look bad in any light.
 
Having tried the three DHT agents, M5, 3-alpha and MDHT extensively for the last few months, there's no longer any question in my mind which I'll continue stocking up on, 3-alpha. 100-150mgs ED of 3-alpha dermal is unquestionably a better hardening and strength stack add than the other two for me.

On the negative side, 3-alpha is also a lot more androgenic, it would be a hair stripper and prostate sweller for a substantial percentage of users, beware.
 
I have tried both M5-aa and MDHT and for me I think MDHT is better. I would like to try the 3-alpha but the hair and prostate issues are not worth the risk for me. Anyway, I think that both orals and injs have their place and in fact can lead to anabolism through different secondary mechansms (stimulate igf, etc.) but from a purely scientific standpoint I think that some of Bigcat's statements are off, at least based on what I have read.



Mr.50
 
Mr. 50, did you have any hair loss/prostate issues on the MDHT?

What was your dosing?

I know you said you were a boxer in other threads...what kind of results did you have?

Would you recommend MDHT?

Thanks!
 
Brodus said:
Mr. 50, did you have any hair loss/prostate issues on the MDHT?

What was your dosing?

I know you said you were a boxer in other threads...what kind of results did you have?

Would you recommend MDHT?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Still on right now Brodus. I have been on for a while with no hair loss. I have been a bit worried about it so I started using 5% Spiro solution from Custom the last two weeks, but not because I saw any but just as a precaution. My current stack is 60mgs. MDHT, 60 mgs M5-AA, and 30mgs of M4OHN. I know it is a lot of methyls but I don't have any injs right now because I have not had a chance to make any home brew 4-AD Cyp. Also because of the nature of my job I can't use anything illegal. I guess that leaves me about a month and a half with the supplies I have of even my prohormones. It sucks but what can you do.

As far as results, as I have said I am a meso/endo with a shade towards endo. I have a lot of trouble losing weight even if I lose body fat (which is a pain in the ass by itself). My body really likes to stay around 190lbs-195lbs (and I am only 5'8'', which for boxing is heavy at that height) so this is a problem as far as my endurance is concerned. I have really tried to make an effort in my training with this in mind so my training is really sport specific for boxing and I also do roadwork. I rarely lift anymore. With that said I have lost a significant amount of fat on this cycle without losing even one pound of LBM; one factor to consider though is I am a really strong responder to any anabolics (I did a small cycle of Winny-V when I was young before I had a clue what I was doing and I gained 13 lbs of LBW in 2 weeks at 50mgs eod [IM]. No bullshit). Something else to consider in relation to my personal situation is that I am hypothyroid so I am taking 150mcgs of T4 per day. From TSH bloodwork this appears to be the correct dosage but as I said losing weight is a bitch so who knows. Anyway I could ramble on forever.....so if I can help any other way just let me know.


Mr.50
 
I am on 75 mg ed for 2 weeks now. Strength is way up. No aggression or any other cns stimulation. Vascularity is mildy increased. no acne no hairloss. To compare, the strength is similiar to M1T but without the weight gain or pumps. I had hairloss on M1T also. On 40 to 60 mg M5AA i did feel more alert but didn't have these same strength gains.
 
Wow...REALLY back from the dead! I think Brodus got banned from AM about the same time as the governmental ban of '04 went into effect!

Unfortunately, I'm not an authority on Proviron. MDHT was (is) an interesting substance, though. About 75% of those who reported and logged results (back then) found it to be really worthwhile, and most effective, when used on workout days about 90 mins pre-workout.

I agree, and I found it and M5AA to be nice for a pretty androgenic compound. Some found it harsh on the hairline/prostate, but if you don't have those preexisting, and you limit your use to 3-4X/week and for say 4 week cycles, it's a good strength booster and hardener.
 
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