Thinking out loud

[neoborn]

I find this all very interesting but at the same time find no consolation in breaking down and taking away all resources that people have used for PCT to leave them without a viable alternative.

Anyone want to cliff notes this and come to some sort of viable solution?

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[EasyEJL]

I think you are missing the point. What dinoiii is saying is that there isn't a SINGLE good choice for everyone. So trying to give specific advice is like trying to answer a question like "how green?". Without details, the specifics and even possibly without blood tests, there isn't a 1 size fits all answer.

 

[neoborn]

I think you are missing the point. What dinoiii is saying is that there isn't a SINGLE good choice for everyone. So trying to give specific advice is like trying to answer a question like "how green?". Without details, the specifics and even possibly without blood tests, there isn't a 1 size fits all answer.

Then have we really progressed any further than where we were already? If someone asks you for advice are you really going to say " Go get blood tests come back and I'll suggest a post cycle therapy protocol for you" , I don't think so. Most people don't get bloodwork, most people don't even want to run a good quality post cycle therapy

So then does this newfound information make the "Stupid persons guide to PCT" a defunct thread?

The staples of a good post cycle therapy are still going to be recommended i.e. SERM, Testbooster, AI, Anti Cort etc.

It looks as though Clomid + AI is the "One Size Fits Most" suggestion as opposed to Nolva etc depending on how shutdown the person is.

Why are people doing 40mg plus of Nolva, for week long periods if all the studies / real life applications show 40/20/10/10 etc to be effective enough? Is it the "more is better" train of thought?

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[dinoiii]

I think you are missing the point. What dinoiii is saying is that there isn't a SINGLE good choice for everyone. So trying to give specific advice is like trying to answer a question like "how green?". Without details, the specifics and even possibly without blood tests, there isn't a 1 size fits all answer.

More or less ... yes.


Let me offer a point of clarification though on the lab test thought. NO ONE CAN CLAIM "SUCCESS" on a PCT regime without lab work - PERIOD! (or maybe exclamation point - which is my appropriated end cap)

Still, on bb forums et al, claimed success stems from those who haven't run labs. I call each and everyone's bluff as they have had virtually NO IDEA!

Its kind of an oxymoron to suggest:
PCT w/o labs = "successful" PCT

Do I think that everyone will run labs? In a perfect world maybe. We did an upcoming article on bb's views of their physicians with pretty dismal results. So, in part I can understand the apprehension - how to ammend it, we're getting there (certainly not an overnight event however).

As I continued on though, I believe I stated that there are certainly a select few individuals whom I would look for their posts. (Don't worry neo, I think while still in my infancy on this particular forum - I can appreciate your work for the masses! ).

There are some things known (of which I went on to give 3 prominent examples). People that botch those things in their recommendations - FAIL step 1 in evaluating whom you may choose to seek out for appropriate advice - because if suggesting any sort of understanding, they'd be aware of the research that DOES exist minimally.



Perhaps not the Cliffs Notes sought out, but still...its what I can offer at this time.



D_

 

[dinoiii]

So then does this newfound information make the "Stupid persons guide to post cycle therapy" a defunct thread?

Unfortunately, I have NO IDEA what thread you speak of.

Staples of a good post cycle therapy are still going to be recommended i.e. SERM, Testbooster, AI, Anti Cort etc.

Per what the research would show for the above items:

SERM - it depends
Test Booster - it depends
AI - it depends
Anti Cort - you'd probably do alright without but otherwise start at the beginning of week 3 of post-cycle

It looks as though Clomid + AI is the "One Size Fits Most" suggestion as opposed to Nolva etc depending on how shutdown the person is.

Maybe, but employment of a PCT at all really is dependent on shutdown. How shutdown - implying a "level" of "shutdowness" can be suggested how without bloodwork??? Again - I reiterate that which I stated above.

Why are people doing 40mg plus of Nolva, for week long periods if all the studies / real life applications show 40/20/10/10 etc to be effective enough? Is it the "more is better" train of thought?

Actually neo, I've seen more than I care to admit in office (1000s actually) and 40mg is NEVER warranted clinically when considering volume of distribution data.

Much Love,

Neoborn

Ummmm - I don't really know how affectionate this board gets, but hell why not...

I suppose love right back at ya there killer... :toofunny:


D_

 

[neoborn]

Thanks for your replies Dinoii. Your posts are refreshing. I do understand what you are trying to say and it makes perfect sense. I guess this is a real problem when you have many new users using products that they have not really researched or have a basic understanding what is needed to fix a shutdown type of problem, myself included as I am no whiz. Very few people are willing to do bloodwork as it costs money and they would rather hit the proverbial fly with a sledge than a fly swatter that has lazur beemz

In relation to Nolva then are we to suppose then 20/10/10/10 etc would be the dosages suggested if Nolva is needed?

So then is bloodwork is what you would run as standard protocol before you would begin to work out some sort of post cycle therapy ( forgive me if I am asking questions you have already answered, I'm just chewing this over and clarifying). Can people truly recognize how shutdown they are or the problems that may be in the background without bloodwork?

So then have people been killing it with Nolva if they have been doing these high 40,40 type protocols?

Much Love (heheh not to make you feel uncomfortable at all, it's not lust it's love baby, for teh humans)

Neoborn

 

[UNCfan1]

So I guess the best thing to do is get bloodwork about a week before your post cycle therapy to see how shutdown you are. Then take it from there? That seems to make sense. I am not sure how many guys acutally get bloodwork. I just do pre and post but this time I might get it right before my PCT.


Dinoiii you have an e-mail BTW. Take your time getting to it but don't forgot it please:thumbsup:

D also I see that you put it depends after those products.

Example cycle-

6 weeks of Epi working up to 50mg. What would PCT would you suggest?