The vaccine thread (WITH FEEDBACK)

poison

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Just interested in hearing what peoples feedback is after getting the vaccine. Myself, I don't plan to YET, due to the lack of FDA-approval, unknown long term side effects, current feedback on short term effects, and stuff like the following:


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33113270/

Informed consent disclosure to vaccine trial subjects of risk of COVID-19 vaccines worsening clinical disease
Timothy Cardozo 1, Ronald Veazey 2
Affiliations expand
PMID: 33113270 PMCID: PMC7645850 DOI: 10.1111/ijcp.13795
Free PMC article
Abstract
Aims of the study: Patient comprehension is a critical part of meeting medical ethics standards of informed consent in study designs. The aim of the study was to determine if sufficient literature exists to require clinicians to disclose the specific risk that COVID-19 vaccines could worsen disease upon exposure to challenge or circulating virus.

Methods used to conduct the study: Published literature was reviewed to identify preclinical and clinical evidence that COVID-19 vaccines could worsen disease upon exposure to challenge or circulating virus. Clinical trial protocols for COVID-19 vaccines were reviewed to determine if risks were properly disclosed.

Results of the study: COVID-19 vaccines designed to elicit neutralising antibodies may sensitise vaccine recipients to more severe disease than if they were not vaccinated. Vaccines for SARS, MERS and RSV have never been approved, and the data generated in the development and testing of these vaccines suggest a serious mechanistic concern: that vaccines designed empirically using the traditional approach (consisting of the unmodified or minimally modified coronavirus viral spike to elicit neutralising antibodies), be they composed of protein, viral vector, DNA or RNA and irrespective of delivery method, may worsen COVID-19 disease via antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). This risk is sufficiently obscured in clinical trial protocols and consent forms for ongoing COVID-19 vaccine trials that adequate patient comprehension of this risk is unlikely to occur, obviating truly informed consent by subjects in these trials.

Conclusions drawn from the study and clinical implications: The specific and significant COVID-19 risk of ADE should have been and should be prominently and independently disclosed to research subjects currently in vaccine trials, as well as those being recruited for the trials and future patients after vaccine approval, in order to meet the medical ethics standard of patient comprehension for informed consent.
Seems fun:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CovidVaccinated/comments/mn0amu
"Body Wide Joint and Surrounding Muscle Aches & Pain One Month Since Vaccine"

"A week after my first Pfizer dose, I started having bad lower back pain, body aches, and malaise. Still dealing with it a month later"

"Two weeks after my second Pfizer, I developed sciatica. And nerve pains In my forearms. I also had severe facial nerve pain on right side of my face the day after my second dose. I had an MRI brain yesterday to see if my occipital nerve is inflamed. I have a lot of environment allergies, pollens, dust etc. my Dr also said my inflammation markers were elevated in my blood draw (two weeks after vaccination second dose). I see a neurologist in two weeks. I started having episodes of tachycardia a week ago. "

"I am here because since my first moderna shot (two weeks ago tomorrow) I have pain radiating out of my hip joints and down my legs, all the way to my ankles. It’s worse when I sit or lie down. My arms maybe hurt too, but not as badly enough to notice. It’s deep in my hips and my calves feel more muscular. Ankle bones hurt, femur bones feel like they’re pulsing. It’s awful."

"I got the vaccine 2 days ago. I felt great for 12 hours and then it hit me like a ****ing bus. Chills, headache, feeling sick, lightheaded and the WORST was my heart rate. I went from a normal 50bpm heart rate to 140-160 non-stop. My heart started to flip flop and I was really lightheaded. I was like Yep, this is it, I'm going to die."

"I got my first Pfizer dose on 3/26. I’m a bit of a worrier/overthinker so I’ve purposely not been trying to link any random symptom I have to the vaccine (besides the obvious fever and headache I had the first night), but I think I’m experiencing heart palpitations from it. "

"Mines been high for a month now almost, and after wearing a 24 hour holter monitor i’m being sent to a cardiologist in a couple weeks. I get like over 3,000 PVCs a day and sometimes double beats now. My resting heart rate has gone from low 70s, to 99+ and then random spikes up to 135, just resting and relaxing or during sleep. Definitely not anxiety!"

"I experienced heart palpitations also after Pfizer . The 2nd dose sent me to ER because my resting heart rate was over 110 for several days while sitting down . Standing rate was consistently over 120. I am hyperthyroid and my condition isn’t managed yet so that may be the issue. I did report the heart palpitations to vsafe. Other people in my hyperthyroid group who aren’t on medication yet for their condition also reported that the vaccine exacerbated their hyperthyroidism symptoms one of which is heart palpitations."

"Had my vaccine 6 hours ago. I’m 22F with mild asthma. I feel like an elephant is sitting on my chest. It hurts to breathe. Has anyone else had this experience? -Yes, I did. But I thought it was just anxiety. So much heaviness and felt like I couldn't catch my breath. Then 3 weeks of exhaustion and sinus issues followed.'

"Is your heart racing? Mine started racing from 50bpm all the way up to 130-150bpm 8 hours after I got the vaccine.. It was horrible. - I was the first case of this in the ER of my hospital. They had never seen it. Definitely go get it checked out op and just make sure nothing is going on that can cause permanent damage. Hopefully the more people that report it, the more it can be taken care of and looked at."
 
thebigt

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damn...my wife and i just got off our 14 day quarantine. we've seriously had colds much worse, i'm 62 and the wife is 63 and we were hardly sick at all---sounds like the cure is worse than the cure---at least for some people it seems :unsure:
 
poison

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damn...my wife and i just got off our 14 day quarantine. we've seriously had colds much worse, i'm 62 and the wife is 63 and we were hardly sick at all---sounds like the cure is worse than the cure---at least for some people it seems :unsure:
Ah, glad you're good man! Yeah, for the vast majority of people it's super mild. A co-worker got covid moderately bad, and then recently got the vaccine and it crushed her for a week, way worse. Wtf.
 
poison

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Vaccine-associated autoimmunity is a well-known phenomenon attributed to either the cross-reactivity between antigens or the effect of adjuvant [3]. When coming to COVID-19 vaccine, this matter is further complicated by the nucleic acid formulation and the accelerated development process imposed by the emergency pandemic situation [4]. Currently, lipid nanoparticle-formulated mRNA vaccines coding for the SARS-CoV-2 full-length spike protein have shown the highest level of evidence according to the efficacy and safety profile in clinical trials, being therefore authorized and recommended for use in the United States and Europe. Although the results from phase I and II/III studies have not raised serious safety concerns [5], the time of observation was extremely short and the target population not defined. Reported local and systemic adverse events seemed to be dose-dependent and more common in participants aged under 55 years. These results presumably depend on the higher reactogenicity occurring in younger people that may confer greater protection towards viral antigens but also predispose to a higher burden of immunological side effects.

The reactogenicity of COVID-19 mRNA vaccine in individuals suffering from immune-mediated diseases and having therefore a pre-existent dysregulation of the immune response has not been investigated. It may be hypothesized that immunosuppressive agents prescribed to these patients mitigate or even prevent side effects related to vaccine immunogenicity.

Besides the mechanism of molecular mimicry, mRNA vaccines may give rise to a cascade of immunological events eventually leading to the aberrant activation of the innate and acquired immune system.

RNA vaccines have been principally designed for cancer and infectious diseases. This innovative therapeutic approach is based on the synthesis of RNA chains coding for desired antigenic proteins and exploits the intrinsic immunogenicity of nucleic acids. In order to avoid degradation by RNases, RNA can be encapsulated in nanoparticles or liposomes, which deliver the cargo inside target cells following a process of endocytosis. mRNA is then translated into immunogenic proteins by cell ribosomal machinery [6].

However, prior to the translation, mRNA may bind pattern recognition receptors (PRRs) in endosomes or cytosol. Toll-like receptor (TLR)3, TLR7 and TLR8 are able to recognize chains of double-stranded (ds)RNA or single-stranded (ss)RNA in endosomes, while retinoic acid-inducible gene-I (RIG-I) and melanoma differentiation-associated protein 5 (MDA5) may detect short and long filaments of dsRNA in the cytosol. The final result is the activation of several pro-inflammatory cascades, including the assembly of inflammasome platforms, the type I interferon (IFN) response and the nuclear translocation of the transcription factor nuclear factor (NF)-kB [7].

Importantly, the up-regulation of these immunological pathways is widely considered to be at the basis of several immune-mediated diseases, especially in genetically predisposed subjects who have an impaired clearance of nucleic acids [8]. This could particularly hold true in young female individuals, due to the over-expression of X-linked genes presiding over the antiviral response and the stimulatory effect played by estrogens on the immune system. The X chromosome hosts several genes involved in the immune response, including TLR7 and TLR8 genes, and about 10% of microRNAs indirectly controlling the activation of the immune system [9].

Therefore, young and female patients who are already affected or predisposed (e.g. immunological and serological abnormalities in absence of clinical symptoms, familiarity for immune-mediated diseases) to autoimmune or autoinflammatory disorders should be carefully evaluated for the benefits and risks of COVID-19 mRNA vaccination. According to epidemiological data, these subjects may develop the infection asymptomatically or pauci-symptomatically and it is worth noting that, in line with the article of Vojdani et al. [1], the presence of autoreactive cells and autoantibodies cross-reacting against SARS-CoV-2 epitopes may even turn naturally protective towards the infection. Until proven otherwise, the administration of a nucleic acid vaccine may instead put these individuals at risk of unwanted immunological side effects by either sensitizing the PRRs or generating cross-reactive cell clones and antibodies. Moreover, COVID-19 mRNA vaccine might differently stimulate myeloid or plasmacytoid dendritic cells (DCs), generating an unbalance in the downstream cytokine pathways that play a crucial role in autoimmunity and autoinflammation [3].
 
GQdaLEGEND

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Nice thread, me personally havent gotten one yet .. im scheduled for april 30th and will report back.

i know around 30+ people in my family and all reported no major sides .. one reported minor pain in arm but went away after couple days.

CVS pharmacy issued out a statement as to people need to stop freaking out over vaccine, just like anything it will give you maybe 1-2 sides which will go away

i mean i guess its fighting and creatine something in your blood, so understandable .. but yeah still scary .. if i didnt had a 2yr old i would push it out as far as possible but with a child i want to get it and stay safe.
 
wfreiling

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I’ve had both vaccines as has my wife, family and most of the people in Philly. Everyone’s fine. Don’t believe the hype, get vaccinated so maybe we can get back to normalcy.
 
thebigt

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I’ve had both vaccines as has my wife, family and most of the people in Philly. Everyone’s fine. Don’t believe the hype, get vaccinated so maybe we can get back to normalcy.
all the hype i've seen is for the vaccine...how do you know you are ok? there are no long term reports now are there?
 
wfreiling

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Eh I mean if I were worried about long term effects I wouldn’t be on AnabolicMinds I don’t think. I mean we’re all so quick to jump on the newest supplement and even beta test them right? Do we know the long term effects? I just think it’s one of those things that’s worth the risk but to each their own. I usually don’t get into politics and the such
 
thebigt

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Eh I mean if I were worried about long term effects I wouldn’t be on AnabolicMinds I don’t think. I just think it’s one of those things that’s worth the risk but to each their own. I usually don’t get into politics and the such
everything is political these days!!!

there is tons of info on long term effects of AAS if that is what you are refering to?
 
wfreiling

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everything is political these days!!!

there is tons of info on long term effects of AAS if that is what you are refering to?
Like I said I’m not going to get into it. You know what I mean. If you don’t wanna get it no one can make you but I think it’s going to be like getting a chicken pox vaccine. I’d rather get it and potentially keep my family and loved ones safe, but to each their own.
 
thebigt

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Like I said I’m not going to get into it. You know what I mean. If you don’t wanna get it no one can make you but I think it’s going to be like getting a chicken pox vaccine. I’d rather get it and potentially keep my family and loved ones safe, but to each their own.
i have had every vaccination known to man up to this point. every 7 years i get a pneumonia shot, every year i get a flu shot, when i was a kid i got every vaccination available and when i was in the navy and travelled abroad got even more shots...my kids and grandkids have also had all their vaccinations and i encouraged this....

but there is something different that scares me about this vaccine---if we aren't forced to get it my wife and i won't be getting it.
 
wfreiling

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i have had every vaccination known to man up to this point. every 7 years i get a pneumonia shot, every year i get a flu shot, when i was a kid i got every vaccination available and when i was in the navy and travelled abroad got even more shots...my kids and grandkids have also had all their vaccinations and i encouraged this....

but there is something different that scares me about this vaccine---if we aren't forced to get it my wife and i won't be getting it.
I get that. I think with my past and all the poison I’ve put in it it just didn’t make me think twice. Also, my wife works in a hospital and I’m in a restaurant so there’s zero quarantining going on in our home.
 
M1911

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being upfront, I don’t consider my n1 a good indicator of anything. However, I’ve been vacc’d w the Pfizer since early January. No short term effects were recognized. Starting from February through all of March I was sick with colds and GI bugs for those 2 whole months. I’d have 2-5 days between illnesses that whole period. Not stating causation, but that’s been my experience. I have a vac card in my wallet, it’s my hope that I never have to show it to anyone. Personally, my concerns with the vaccine are nothing compared to what could be if “passports” are introduced.
“Never let a crisis go to waste” and all that.
 
thebigt

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I get that. I think with my past and all the poison I’ve put in it it just didn’t make me think twice. Also, my wife works in a hospital and I’m in a restaurant so there’s zero quarantining going on in our home.
i value your right to make the decision to get vaccinated...i hope my decision not to get vaccinated is valued also.
 
thebigt

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being upfront, I don’t consider my n1 a good indicator of anything. However, I’ve been vacc’d w the Pfizer since early January. No short term effects were recognized. Starting from February through all of March I was sick with colds and GI bugs for those 2 whole months. I’d have 2-5 days between illnesses that whole period. Not stating causation, but that’s been my experience. I have a vac card in my wallet, it’s my hope that I never have to show it to anyone. Personally, my concerns with the vaccine are nothing compared to what could be if “passports” are introduced.
“Never let a crisis go to waste” and all that.
if it comes down to it i have no doubt joe diben will send out the jackboots.
 
celc5

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I agree w T, to each his own.

But please don't let that first post of testimonials influence u in any way. Every single one sounds like an anxiety attack to me.
 
ValiantThor08

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I agree w T, to each his own.

But please don't let that first post of testimonials influence u in any way. Every single one sounds like an anxiety attack to me.
I'm part of a COVID vax side effects group, and there are new posts all the time of loved ones dying after the vaccination. I'm seeing a lot more, and a lot worse than panic attacks.
 
THOR 70

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I'm part of a COVID vax side effects group, and there are new posts all the time of loved ones dying after the vaccination. I'm seeing a lot more, and a lot worse than panic attacks.
What group is this?
 
poison

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I agree w T, to each his own.

But please don't let that first post of testimonials influence u in any way. Every single one sounds like an anxiety attack to me.
You know what sounds like anxiety to me? 'Long haul covid.' the symptoms mimic what happens when you lock people in solitary confinement, remove all pleasure from their lives, take away every outlet and social contact, keep them sedentary, and scare the **** out of them with a steady stream of fear mongering bullshit for months on end.

As far as side effects now....people are way to quick to dismiss them. Everything is hand waved with a 'the numbers are super low', or an 'extremely rare', but my favorite is 'there's no proof it was the vaccine'.

The double standard is glaring, and so disingenuous as to be almost evil. For a whole year, anyone who died within 60 days of a (ridiculously and purposely over inflated) 40 cycle pcr test was counted as a covid death, even if they needed the Jaws of life to remove the dead body from the mangled car. Everything was proof, or no proof was needed. But get the vaccine and die 2 hours, 2 days, or 2 weeks later? Nope, not the vaccine, no way, no how. Can't be. SCIENCE.

Meanwhile the media, social media, and the gang-bang sycophants ridicule, bully, and shout down anyone asking the pertinent questions. DANCE, PEASANT.
 
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poison

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I don't like conspiracy theories, but there is a lot of unusual consistency with this global response. My theory, with 0 proof:

JNJ has a better safety profile than Pfizer and Moderna, and AZ has a similar profile. Pfizer/Moderna use mRNA technology, JNJ/AZ use more traditional, non-mRNA technology.

AZ sells for cost ($3-4/dose), Pfizer/Moderna sell for a large profit (~$20/dose). I'm not sure about JNJ, but it's irrelevant in this scenario. IMO, Pfizer/Moderna are putting dirt out there, and lobbying gov'ts around the world, to kill AZ/JNJ. Why? Because Pfizer made $15B gross, or $4B in pure profit, since the end of last year. Many developing countries are choosing AZ, due to cost, and Pfizer can't have them stealing whole countries away from them.

Is there some insidious push to use mRNA for nefarious purposes, as the dude says above? Who knows, but that could play into it too. I can't fathom why every country is spouting the same coordinated bullshit, if it's not true.
 
THOR 70

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I don't like conspiracy theories, but there is a lot of unusual consistency with this global response. My theory, with 0 proof:

JNJ has a better safety profile than Pfizer and Moderna, and AZ has a similar profile. Pfizer/Moderna use mRNA technology, JNJ/AZ use more traditional, non-mRNA technology.

AZ sells for cost ($3-4/dose), Pfizer/Moderna sell for a large profit (~$20/dose). I'm not sure about JNJ, but it's irrelevant in this scenario. IMO, Pfizer/Moderna are putting dirt out there, and lobbying gov'ts around the world, to kill AZ/JNJ. Why? Because Pfizer made $15B gross, or $4B in pure profit, since the end of last year. Many developing countries are choosing AZ, due to cost, and Pfizer can't have them stealing whole countries away from them.

Is there some insidious push to use mRNA for nefarious purposes, as the dude says above? Who knows, but that could play into it too. I can't fathom why every country is spouting the same coordinated bullshit, if it's not true.
The most simple/minimal “conspiracy theory” would be all these vaccines just make the population slightly more sick and weak and less likely to fight back. These could also manifest years down the road as autoimmune diseases, cancers, and even schizophrenia from the connections I’ve seen a PhD I personally know connect the dots through syn1/HERV-W genetic elements in these diseases.
 
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THOR 70

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FDA halts JNJ vaccine usage



The side effects for moderna and pfizer were WORSE in trials than JNJ. ;)
I bet this gets swept under the rug pretty quick. Surprised it even made major news.
 
StrongGuy

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Posted this on another thread, but here's my limited experience so far:

Got the J&J on last Tuesday. Felt moderately crappy the following day, mainly some body aches/slight headache then fine after. Back to 100% a couple days later. Wife got the Pfizer, both shots back in February, and had virtually no side effects at all. I was on the fence a long time and decided to finally go with J&J because it was the one I felt most comfortable with.
 
ELROCK

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I got the Moderna vaccine a couple months ago as I work in the medical field. Just a sore shoulder for a few days after the first dose. The second dose I was smacked with full body aches and a headache. I was shivering and had cold sweats. My symptoms came on 12 hours after my second dose and lasted exactly 12 hours. As soon as the 12 hours was up I felt completely fine. I was even able to go to the gym the next day.
 
thebigt

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The most simple/minimal “conspiracy theory” would be all these vaccines just make the population slightly more sick and weak and less likely to fight back. These could also manifest years down the road as autoimmune diseases, cancers, and even schizophrenia from the connections I’ve seen a PhD I personally know connect the dots through syn1/HERV-W genetic elements in these diseases.
i've heard they will cause sterility....
 

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I got the Pfizer vaccine. No sides from the first dose. The day after the second dose, I felt tired/lethargic. The following day I was fine.
I know a lot of people who have had the vaccine and most had no or very minor side effects. A few people I know that previously had Covid seemed to get worse side effects after the vaccine (Pfizer or Moderna) - flu like symptoms for a day. But they were fine ~36 hours post vaccine.
 
THOR 70

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i've heard they will cause sterility....
Well this would fit in nicely with depopulation agenda. At first everyone discounts this as a crazy conspiracy theory, but guess what. The people don’t know the long term side effects of this.

I pray that it isn’t a side effect, but people are putting way too much faith and trust in this vaccine and the government.
 
LondonerTWBULLY

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I’m in the uk and nearly everyone has been offered their first jab,
no zombie apocalypse yet....

I think everyone should be entitled to a choice regarding the vaccine,
But I think passports will be introduced, and if you want to travel etc you’ll need one.
its not the normal variants of COVID the average joe need to worry about,
its the Brazilian, African variants which are way more lethal even to the young.
 
poison

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What is an adenovirus vaccine? The reason Australia isn't asking for the Johnson & Johnson jab

What is an adenovirus vaccine?
Adenovirus vaccines are a type of viral vector vaccine.
That means they use a modified and harmless virus — in this case an adenovirus — as a delivery system for genetic instructions.
Those genetic instructions teach your body to produce spike proteins like those that adorn the outer shell of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

Does this have anything to do with blood clots?
Archie Clements, a professor of infectious disease epidemiology at Curtin University, said the government may have been stung by recent links between the AstraZeneca vaccine and a very rare blood clotting disorder.
The rollout of that vaccine was knocked off course last week after its association with the condition became clearer.
The vaccine is still being encouraged for people over 50, but it is only recommended for younger people if the benefits clearly outweigh the risks in individual circumstances.
"The government is probably feeling a certain amount of political discomfort around the promotion of AstraZeneca earlier on and the reliance on AstraZeneca," Professor Clements said.
Interesting. 'Harmless adenovirus', 'harmless spike proteins'. Cool.


Adenovirus-induced thrombocytopenia: the role of von Willebrand factor and P-selectin in mediating accelerated platelet clearance

Abstract
Thrombocytopenia has been consistently reported following the administration of adenoviral gene transfer vectors. The mechanism underlying this phenomenon is currently unknown. In this study, we have assessed the influence of von Willebrand Factor (VWF) and P-selectin on the clearance of platelets following adenovirus administration. In mice, thrombocytopenia occurs between 5 and 24 hours after adenovirus delivery. The virus activates platelets and induces platelet-leukocyte aggregate formation. There is an associated increase in platelet and leukocyte-derived microparticles. Adenovirus-induced endothelial cell activation was shown by VCAM-1 expression on virus-treated, cultured endothelial cells and by the release of ultra-large molecular weight multimers of VWF within 1 to 2 hours of virus administration with an accompanying elevation of endothelial microparticles. In contrast, VWF knockout (KO) mice did not show significant thrombocytopenia after adenovirus administration. We have also shown that adenovirus interferes with adhesion of platelets to a fibronectin-coated surface and flow cytometry revealed the presence of the Coxsackie adenovirus receptor on the platelet surface. We conclude that VWF and P-selectin are critically involved in a complex platelet-leukocyte-endothelial interplay, resulting in platelet activation and accelerated platelet clearance following adenovirus administration.
 
poison

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And unrelated, yet somewhat related. How is a study showing masks are not only ineffective, but actively harmful, related to vaccines? Well, the 'vaxx em all at any costs' crowd claims you hate science and want babies to die if you don't vaxx up. These same fucking moron assholes never followed the science when it came to masks, or lockdowns, science which has clearly stated for decades now that neither are effective in containing pandemics, in fact they are harmful. THIS WAS KNOWN, yet they persisted.

So, if they are willing to **** science in the name of <insert bullshit insidious political '**** orange man' goals>, when it comes to masks and lockdown, do you really think they're accurately and honestly representing science when it comes to vaccines?

Nah.


Cliffs (but you should really read the whole thing):

Table 1
Physiological and Psychological Effects of Wearing Facemask and Their Potential Health Consequences.
Physiological EffectsPsychological EffectHealth Consequences
  • • Hypoxemia
  • • Hypercapnia
  • • Shortness of breath
  • • Increase lactate concentration
  • • Decline in pH levels
  • • Acidosis
  • • Toxicity
  • • Inflammation
  • • Self-contamination
  • • Increase in stress hormones level (adrenaline, noradrenaline and cortisol)
  • • Increased muscle tension
  • • Immunosuppression
  • • Activation of “fight or flight” stress response
  • • Chronic stress condition
  • • Fear
  • • Mood disturbances
  • • Insomnia
  • • Fatigue
  • • Compromised cognitive performance
  • • Increased predisposition for viral and infection illnesses
  • • Headaches
  • • Anxiety
  • • Depression
  • • Hypertension
  • • Cardiovascular disease
  • • Cancer
  • • Diabetes
  • • Alzheimer disease
  • • Exacerbation of existing conditions and diseases
  • • Accelerated aging process
  • • Health deterioration
  • • Premature mortality
 
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poison

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Lockdowns? They literally let a 16yo schoolgirl inform national pandemic policy.


ow begins the grand effort, on display in thousands of articles and news broadcasts daily, somehow to normalize the lockdown and all its destruction of the last two months. We didn’t lock down almost the entire country in 1968/69, 1957, or 1949-1952, or even during 1918. But in a terrifying few days in March 2020, it happened to all of us, causing an avalanche of social, cultural, and economic destruction that will ring through the ages.
There was nothing normal about it all. We’ll be trying to figure out what happened to us for decades hence.
How did a temporary plan to preserve hospital capacity turn into two-to-three months of near-universal house arrest that ended up causing worker furloughs at 256 hospitals, a stoppage of international travel, a 40% job loss among people earning less than $40K per year, devastation of every economic sector, mass confusion and demoralization, a complete ignoring of all fundamental rights and liberties, not to mention the mass confiscation of private property with forced closures of millions of businesses?
Whatever the answer, it’s got to be a bizarre tale. What’s truly surprising is just how recent the theory behind lockdown and forced distancing actually is. So far as anyone can tell, the intellectual machinery that made this mess was invented 14 years ago, and not by epidemiologists but by computer-simulation modelers. It was adopted not by experienced doctors – they warned ferociously against it – but by politicians.
Let’s start with the phrase social distancing, which has mutated into forced human separation. The first I had heard it was in the 2011 movie Contagion. The first time it appeared in the New York Times was February 12, 2006:
If the avian flu goes pandemic while Tamiflu and vaccines are still in short supply, experts say, the only protection most Americans will have is “social distancing,” which is the new politically correct way of saying “quarantine.”
But distancing also encompasses less drastic measures, like wearing face masks, staying out of elevators — and the [elbow] bump. Such stratagems, those experts say, will rewrite the ways we interact, at least during the weeks when the waves of influenza are washing over us.
Maybe you don’t remember that the avian flu of 2006 didn’t amount to much. It’s true, despite all the extreme warnings about its lethality, H5N1 didn’t turn into much at all. What it did do, however, was send the existing president, George W. Bush, to the library to read about the 1918 flu and its catastrophic results. He asked for some experts to submit some plans to him about what to do when the real thing comes along.
The New York Times (April 22, 2020) tells the story from there:
Fourteen years ago, two federal government doctors, Richard Hatchett and Carter Mecher, met with a colleague at a burger joint in suburban Washington for a final review of a proposal they knew would be treated like a piñata: telling Americans to stay home from work and school the next time the country was hit by a deadly pandemic.
When they presented their plan not long after, it was met with skepticism and a degree of ridicule by senior officials, who like others in the United States had grown accustomed to relying on the pharmaceutical industry, with its ever-growing array of new treatments, to confront evolving health challenges.
Drs. Hatchett and Mecher were proposing instead that Americans in some places might have to turn back to an approach, self-isolation, first widely employed in the Middle Ages.
How that idea — born out of a request by President George W. Bush to ensure the nation was better prepared for the next contagious disease outbreak — became the heart of the national playbook for responding to a pandemic is one of the untold stories of the coronavirus crisis.
It required the key proponents — Dr. Mecher, a Department of Veterans Affairs physician, and Dr. Hatchett, an oncologist turned White House adviser — to overcome intense initial opposition.
It brought their work together with that of a Defense Department team assigned to a similar task.
And it had some unexpected detours, including a deep dive into the history of the 1918 Spanish flu and an important discovery kicked off by a high school research project pursued by the daughter of a scientist at the Sandia National Laboratories.
The concept of social distancing is now intimately familiar to almost everyone. But as it first made its way through the federal bureaucracy in 2006 and 2007, it was viewed as impractical, unnecessary and politically infeasible.
Notice that in the course of this planning, neither legal nor economic experts were brought in to consult and advise. Instead it fell to Mecher (formerly of Chicago and an intensive care doctor with no previous expertise in pandemics) and the oncologist Hatchett.
But what is this mention of the high-school daughter of 14? Her name is Laura M. Glass, and she recently declined to be interviewed when the Albuquerque Journal did a deep dive of this history.
Laura, with some guidance from her dad, devised a computer simulation that showed how people – family members, co-workers, students in schools, people in social situations – interact. What she discovered was that school kids come in contact with about 140 people a day, more than any other group. Based on that finding, her program showed that in a hypothetical town of 10,000 people, 5,000 would be infected during a pandemic if no measures were taken, but only 500 would be infected if the schools were closed.
Laura’s name appears on the foundational paper arguing for lockdowns and forced human separation. That paper is Targeted Social Distancing Designs for Pandemic Influenza (2006). It set out a model for forced separation and applied it with good results backwards in time to 1957. They conclude with a chilling call for what amounts to a totalitarian lockdown, all stated very matter-of-factly.
Implementation of social distancing strategies is challenging. They likely must be imposed for the duration of the local epidemic and possibly until a strain-specific vaccine is developed and distributed. If compliance with the strategy is high over this period, an epidemic within a community can be averted. However, if neighboring communities do not also use these interventions, infected neighbors will continue to introduce influenza and prolong the local epidemic, albeit at a depressed level more easily accommodated by healthcare systems.
 
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In other words, it was a high-school science experiment that eventually became law of the land, and through a circuitous route propelled not by science but politics.
The primary author of this paper was Robert J. Glass, a complex-systems analyst with Sandia National Laboratories. He had no medical training, much less an expertise in immunology or epidemiology.
That explains why Dr. D.A. Henderson, “who had been the leader of the international effort to eradicate smallpox,” completely rejected the whole scheme.
Says the NYT:
Dr. Henderson was convinced that it made no sense to force schools to close or public gatherings to stop. Teenagers would escape their homes to hang out at the mall. School lunch programs would close, and impoverished children would not have enough to eat. Hospital staffs would have a hard time going to work if their children were at home.
The measures embraced by Drs. Mecher and Hatchett would “result in significant disruption of the social functioning of communities and result in possibly serious economic problems,” Dr. Henderson wrote in his own academic paper responding to their ideas.
The answer, he insisted, was to tough it out: Let the pandemic spread, treat people who get sick and work quickly to develop a vaccine to prevent it from coming back.
AIER’s Phil Magness got to work to find the literature responding to the 2006 paper by Robert and Laura M. Glass and discovered the following manifesto: Disease Mitigation Measures in the Control of Pandemic Influenza. The authors included D.A. Henderson, along with three professors from Johns Hopkins: infectious disease specialist Thomas V.Inglesby, epidemiologist Jennifer B. Nuzzo, and physician Tara O’Toole.
Their paper is a remarkably readable refutation of the entire lockdown model.
There are no historical observations or scientific studies that support the confinement by quarantine of groups of possibly infected people for extended periods in order to slow the spread of influenza. … It is difficult to identify circumstances in the past half-century when large-scale quarantine has been effectively used in the control of any disease. The negative consequences of large-scale quarantine are so extreme (forced confinement of sick people with the well; complete restriction of movement of large populations; difficulty in getting critical supplies, medicines, and food to people inside the quarantine zone) that this mitigation measure should be eliminated from serious consideration
Home quarantine also raises ethical questions. Implementation of home quarantine could result in healthy, uninfected people being placed at risk of infection from sick household members. Practices to reduce the chance of transmission (hand-washing, maintaining a distance of 3 feet from infected people, etc.) could be recommended, but a policy imposing home quarantine would preclude, for example, sending healthy children to stay with relatives when a family member becomes ill. Such a policy would also be particularly hard on and dangerous to people living in close quarters, where the risk of infection would be heightened….
Travel restrictions, such as closing airports and screening travelers at borders, have historically been ineffective. The World Health Organization Writing Group concluded that “screening and quarantining entering travelers at international borders did not substantially delay virus introduction in past pandemics . . . and will likely be even less effective in the modern era.”… It is reasonable to assume that the economic costs of shutting down air or train travel would be very high, and the societal costs involved in interrupting all air or train travel would be extreme.
During seasonal influenza epidemics, public events with an expected large attendance have sometimes been cancelled or postponed, the rationale being to decrease the number of contacts with those who might be contagious. There are, however, no certain indications that these actions have had any definitive effect on the severity or duration of an epidemic. Were consideration to be given to doing this on a more extensive scale and for an extended period, questions immediately arise as to how many such events would be affected. There are many social gatherings that involve close contacts among people, and this prohibition might include church services, athletic events, perhaps all meetings of more than 100 people. It might mean closing theaters, restaurants, malls, large stores, and bars. Implementing such measures would have seriously disruptive consequences
Schools are often closed for 1–2 weeks early in the development of seasonal community outbreaks of influenza primarily because of high absentee rates, especially in elementary schools, and because of illness among teachers. This would seem reasonable on practical grounds. However, to close schools for longer periods is not only impracticable but carries the possibility of a serious adverse outcome….
Thus, cancelling or postponing large meetings would not be likely to have any significant effect on the development of the epidemic. While local concerns may result in the closure of particular events for logical reasons, a policy directing communitywide closure of public events seems inadvisable. Quarantine. As experience shows, there is no basis for recommending quarantine either of groups or individuals. The problems in implementing such measures are formidable, and secondary effects of absenteeism and community disruption as well as possible adverse consequences, such as loss of public trust in government and stigmatization of quarantined people and groups, are likely to be considerable….
Finally, the remarkable conclusion:
Experience has shown that communities faced with epidemics or other adverse events respond best and with the least anxiety when the normal social functioning of the community is least disrupted. Strong political and public health leadership to provide reassurance and to ensure that needed medical care services are provided are critical elements. If either is seen to be less than optimal, a manageable epidemic could move toward catastrophe.
Confronting a manageable epidemic and turning it into a catastrophe: that seems like a good description of everything that has happened in the COVID-19 crisis of 2020.
Thus did some of the most highly trained and experienced experts on epidemics warn with biting rhetoric against everything that the advocates of lockdown proposed. It was not even a real-world idea in the first place and showed no actual knowledge of viruses and disease mitigation. Again, the idea was born of a high-school science experiment using agent-based modelling techniques having nothing at all to do with real life, real science, or real medicine.
So the question becomes: how did the extreme view prevail?
The New York Times has the answer:
The [Bush] administration ultimately sided with the proponents of social distancing and shutdowns — though their victory was little noticed outside of public health circles. Their policy would become the basis for government planning and would be used extensively in simulations used to prepare for pandemics, and in a limited way in 2009 during an outbreak of the influenza called H1N1. Then the coronavirus came, and the plan was put to work across the country for the first time.
[Post-publication note: You can read the 2007 CDC paper here. It is arguable that this paper did not favor full lockdown. I’ve spoken to Rajeev Venkayya, MD, who regards the 2007 plan as more liberal, and assures me that they never envisioned this level of lockdown: “lockdowns and shelter-in-place were not part of the recommendations.” To my mind, fleshing out the full relationship between this 2007 document and current policy requires a separate article.]
The Times called one of the pro-lockdown researchers, Dr. Howard Markel, and asked what he thought of the lockdowns. His answer: he is glad that his work was used to “save lives” but added, “It is also horrifying.” “We always knew this would be applied in worst-case scenarios,” he said. “Even when you are working on dystopian concepts, you always hope it will never be used.”
Ideas have consequences, as they say. Dream up an idea for a virus-controlling totalitarian society, one without an endgame and eschewing any experienced-based evidence that it would achieve the goal, and you might see it implemented someday. Lockdown might be the new orthodoxy but that doesn’t make it medically sound or morally correct. At least now we know that many great doctors and scholars in 2006 did their best to stop this nightmare from unfolding. Their mighty paper should serve as a blueprint for dealing with the next pandemic.
 
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Again, why is this relevant? Because the 'follow the science' crowd actually doesn't give a **** about the science, unless it furthers their goals. And now these same people are shouting the same things about vaccines.

Do your own math.
 
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Again, why is this relevant? Because the 'follow the science' crowd actually doesn't give a **** about the science, unless it furthers their goals. And now these same people are shouting the same things about vaccines.

Do your own math.
So I’ve been thinking about this a lot. I’ve come to the conclusion that people are now too weak to take responsibility for their own lives. So subconsciously, they will always choose the subservient path the government lays out for them, so that they don’t have to make the hard choices. Either that or they are locked into fight or flight, and due to stress hormones they can only think emotionally, not logically. Or both. Touché to whomever planned and orchestrated this. It’s evil genius to be frank.
 
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The retards that lie to us about all things COVID, I wont be trusting w/ this (yet).
Ill let it bake out there for a while. I never get the flu vaccine either. When Im older sure, now? Nah...

COVID :ROFLMAO:
 
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Portugal ruled PCR testing is not a legal means of determining covid infection status, a while ago. Now an Aurtian court has done the same:

“In the name of the republic” a sensational judgment was issued on March 24 under the business number VGW-103/048/3227 / 2021-2 , which gave the Kurz government a resounding slap in the face. The court stated in several places that a PCR test is not suitable for determining infectivity. This probably factually correct judgment indirectly rejects the entire corona policy in Austria, which is based on this test.


Yet another instance of 'the science' followers being full of utter ****.
 
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Well this would fit in nicely with depopulation agenda. At first everyone discounts this as a crazy conspiracy theory, but guess what. The people don’t know the long term side effects of this.

I pray that it isn’t a side effect, but people are putting way too much faith and trust in this vaccine and the government.
actually looking at many of the young people today, maybe sterility would be a good thing.
 

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