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The Perfect PCT

KgTomCat said:
Ive read this before; Nolva causing gyno, anyone care to further explain?? :thanks:
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It doesn't actually cause any gyno but will make it worse if it is being caused by progestin. Nolva up-regulates progesterone receptors, so if someone is experiencing symptoms of gyno caused by progestin (which tren is famous for) then the nolva will not help and probably make it worse. So it's not actually causing it but it would seem that way.
 
muffinman said:
It doesn't actually cause any gyno but will make it worse if it is being caused by progestin. Nolva up-regulates progesterone receptors, so if someone is experiencing symptoms of gyno caused by progestin (which tren is famous for) then the nolva will not help and probably make it worse. So it's not actually causing it but it would seem that way.
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thanx for clarifying that man. Im planning my next cycle and not sure if I'll need it this time around
 
something like this...
Hdrol: 50/50/75/100/100/100-125
Feraguno: 200-300mg throughout full cycle
Cycle Support throughout full cycle
Nolva20/10/10-Im not prone to gyno at all, just incase
Some test booster-not sure which oneDiesel, Activate Xtreme, Blue Up?-all of PCT
PCSwk 3-6
Lean Extremewk 3-6
Creatine Mono
-I also have a little 6OXO
might through in some DHEA, dont know and the main support supp Ill be using is Fish Oil
 
I was wondering if someone would critique my PCT for my H-Drol cycle.

I'm 5'10 192lbs. and 12% bf

H-Drol: 50/50/75/75/75
Cycle Assist

PCT:
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
Formex 50/50/25/25
PCT Assist*
Cycle Assist

*Should I start the PCT assist on day 1 of my PCT? Also, will I need any sort of cortisol blocker or is this PCT good?

I'm still debating whether or not I should use formex through my cycle, then, along with my PCT, too.

Thanks in advance.
 
DenDestroys said:
I was wondering if someone would critique my PCT for my H-Drol cycle.

I'm 5'10 192lbs. and 12% bf

H-Drol: 50/50/75/75/75
Cycle Assist

PCT:
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
Formex 50/50/25/25
PCT Assist*
Cycle Assist

*Should I start the PCT assist on day 1 of my PCT? Also, will I need any sort of cortisol blocker or is this PCT good?

I'm still debating whether or not I should use formex through my cycle, then, along with my PCT, too.

Thanks in advance.
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Well you definitely don't need to dose the nolva that high for an h-drol cycle. Maybe more like 20/20/10/10.
 
DenDestroys said:
I was wondering if someone would critique my PCT for my H-Drol cycle.

I'm 5'10 192lbs. and 12% bf

H-Drol: 50/50/75/75/75
Cycle Assist

PCT:
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
Formex 50/50/25/25
PCT Assist*
Cycle Assist

*Should I start the PCT assist on day 1 of my PCT? Also, will I need any sort of cortisol blocker or is this PCT good?

I'm still debating whether or not I should use formex through my cycle, then, along with my PCT, too.

Thanks in advance.
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Nolva is WAY too high. Cycle assist and PCT assist Ive never used, I just go with cycle support and post cycle support. Not sure about the formex either
 
DenDestroys said:
I was wondering if someone would critique my PCT for my H-Drol cycle.

I'm 5'10 192lbs. and 12% bf

H-Drol: 50/50/75/75/75
Cycle Assist

PCT:
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
Formex 50/50/25/25
PCT Assist*
Cycle Assist

*Should I start the PCT assist on day 1 of my PCT? Also, will I need any sort of cortisol blocker or is this PCT good?

I'm still debating whether or not I should use formex through my cycle, then, along with my PCT, too.

Thanks in advance.
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I would recommend Torem over Nolva, but whatever you decide I would not discourage you from using a SERM for any PCT.

Most people recommend starting AI in week three when using a SERM, but today I came across an IBE rep saying to start Formex in week one with a SERM so I'm trying to get clarification on that.

PCT Assist should be started at the beginning of week three as should a cortisol blocker.
 
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hey muffinman, so, i have been taking the nolvadex for about 7 days now, i feel no more pain in my nipples and the lump under nipple is going away. should i stop now or continue with the dosage reduced. i took nolvadex 40mg a day for 7 days. should i switch to something else or should i stop "cold turkey".
 
enoc09 said:
hey muffinman, so, i have been taking the nolvadex for about 7 days now, i feel no more pain in my nipples and the lump under nipple is going away. should i stop now or continue with the dosage reduced. i took nolvadex 40mg a day for 7 days. should i switch to something else or should i stop "cold turkey".
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Definitely do not stop cold turkey, I would say lower the dosage to twenty and cruise on that until it's cleared up for a while. Just remember though, even if the nolva gets rid of it, if your hormones are not balanced out right it will come right back again. The nolva is blocking estrogen receptors in your in your chest area not solving the estrogen problem causing the gyno.
 
ok, quick summary, finished a Animal stack a week ago. took the Animal stack on it's own about three weeks for pct. i used Tren Extreme + HMG (same company) for eight weeks in total. how would i know if my hormones are in balance? my balls are coming back to normal size. when should i start my new cycle. i am writing it up and then post it here for you guys to evaluate. been reading a lot of blogs and articles and now composing a plan for the next cycle. i will start taking the nolvedex at 20 mg but for how long. i know you said to take it until it clears but can you say a "no more than ---- weeks or days" ? thanks
 
enoc09 said:
ok, quick summary, finished a Animal stack a week ago. took the Animal stack on it's own about three weeks for pct. i used Tren Extreme + HMG (same company) for eight weeks in total. how would i know if my hormones are in balance? my balls are coming back to normal size. when should i start my new cycle. i am writing it up and then post it here for you guys to evaluate. been reading a lot of blogs and articles and now composing a plan for the next cycle. i will start taking the nolvedex at 20 mg but for how long. i know you said to take it until it clears but can you say a "no more than ---- weeks or days" ? thanks
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Wait so you only took animal stack for PCT after eight weeks of tren and an epi/havoc clone?
 
yes, really stupid of me but this was before i found this website. the people at max muscle are the ones who told me it was safe to do these back to back. learned my lesson and never going back to them again. many of the members have pointed me to articles and data that i have read and understood now. still doing research now before i decide to o a cycle again.
 
enoc09 said:
yes, really stupid of me but this was before i found this website. the people at max muscle are the ones who told me it was safe to do these back to back. learned my lesson and never going back to them again. many of the members have pointed me to articles and data that i have read and understood now. still doing research now before i decide to o a cycle again.
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I have no problem with the animal stack because that's not hormonal, but eight weeks of tren and epi with no pct is horrible! I can guarantee that your hormones are all out of wack so for starters don't plan on running another cycle for quite a while.

After finding this out I would say keep the nolva dosage at 40 for another week and then two weeks at 20. You also should get a natural test booster to take starting in you third week of nolva and take it for four weeks. That is the bare minimum.
 
ok, what do you recommend for the test booster? i have used novedex xt and got some good results. why do you say to run another test booster if i did animal stack for three weeks? just wondering.
 
enoc09 said:
ok, what do you recommend for the test booster? i have used novedex xt and got some good results. why do you say to run another test booster if i did animal stack for three weeks? just wondering.
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Something like Post Cycle Support from Anabolic Innovations would be good. The reason I say to use another is because first of all Animal stack is not the type that will work good coming off a cycle and second, if you are having gyno symptoms then that means your hormone ratios are off so the Animal stack didn't help much.
 
cool bro. your data makes sense. see i read that anabolic innovations cycle support is awesome and i will use in in the next ph cycle, as well as pct cycle. i will buy today the post cycle support from nutraplanet and use it when it arrives during this time. thanks for everything.
 
LAGear said:
I would recommend Torem over Nolva, but whatever you decide I would not discourage you from using a SERM for any PCT.

Most people recommend starting AI in week three when using a SERM, but today I came across an IBE rep saying to start Formex in week one with a SERM so I'm trying to get clarification on that.

PCT Assist should be started at the beginning of week three as should a cortisol blocker.
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In the "Formex rocks!" thread an IBE Rep says it could either be started on week 1 or week 3. For which one I should choose, I don't know. I guess my PCT will stand with slight modification.

nolva 20/20/10/10
PCT assist 0/0/begin
formex 50/50/20/20
cycle assist - entire cycle
 
DenDestroys said:
In the "Formex rocks!" thread an IBE Rep says it could either be started on week 1 or week 3. For which one I should choose, I don't know. I guess my PCT will stand with slight modification.

nolva 20/20/10/10
PCT assist 0/0/begin
formex 50/50/20/20
cycle assist - entire cycle
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:goodpost: I might try this...
 
Im a bigger guy, and my cycle is going to be on the high end, and lengthy, should I run Formex at 100/75/50/25 or something like 100/75/50/50/25??
 
nattydisaster said:
The reverse taper is a fairly new idea that could definitely work. You should give it a go!
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I think I'm going to do it. But as I think you know I'm doing h-drol instead of epi.

I'm going to run Torem for 3-4 weeks (undecided). What do you think about this plan for Formex: 25 EOD/25/50/50/25/25?

You've said that you can take Formex year-round at 50 ED. If that is the case, why bother with tapering down Formex in PCT? Couldn't you just keep running it at 50 until you run out?

muffinman said:
It doesn't actually cause any gyno but will make it worse if it is being caused by progestin. Nolva up-regulates progesterone receptors, so if someone is experiencing symptoms of gyno caused by progestin (which tren is famous for) then the nolva will not help and probably make it worse. So it's not actually causing it but it would seem that way.
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I've seen some heated debates recently about whether a SERM is needed for h-drol PCT. I don't want to get into that here but the anti-SERM camp keeps bringing up the fact that SERMS upregulate estrogen receptors and can cause gyno. Is this what they are talking about?

If so, does it in any way apply to Torem? Can Torem increase gyno risk? And does this argument even apply to h-drol cycle since it's not a progestin?

muffinman said:
Well you definitely don't need to dose the nolva that high for an h-drol cycle. Maybe more like 20/20/10/10.
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How would you dose Torem for an h-drol cycle?
 
To clarify option #2, which is the prefered route:
Cycle support with Formex
Post cycle support with Formex
or PCS + CS with Formex
 
KgTomCat said:
CS is for when on cycle, PCS is for after the cycle (PCT)
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That I do understand...what I don't understand is why in the original post of this thread, Cycle Support is recommended over Post Cycle Support for PCT when used with Formex, or am I missing something?


"2) Without a SERM

Needed: 1 bottles IBE Formex, 1 bottle AI Cycle Support/PCS

Not everyone can get SERMs. This method is not as good as above, but is still much better than nothing.

Week 1: IBE Formex 50mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)
Week 2: IBE Formex 50mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)
Week 3: IBE Formex 25mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)
Week 4: IBE Formex 25mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS) "


Is Formex + CS better than Formex +PCS, or should both be used?
 
GTPB said:
To clarify option #2, which is the prefered route:
Cycle support with Formex
Post cycle support with Formex
or PCS + CS with Formex

I plan on running an EPI cycle soon and was curious as to why CS is better than PCS with formex?
Also if there are any threads of users who tried your option 2 with results.

I have 2 bottles of activate Xtreme leftover, could/should this be aded anywhere here?

Whats the deal with Epi and formex being out of stock everywhere? seems as tough SOM is the only place with stock.
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Both are OK. I always use CS in my PCT because it is so good at fixing the lipid panel. You could do both though. Or just either one. Whatever you like the best.
 
GTPB said:
That I do understand...what I don't understand is why in the original post of this thread, Cycle Support is recommended over Post Cycle Support for PCT when used with Formex, or am I missing something?


"2) Without a SERM

Needed: 1 bottles IBE Formex, 1 bottle AI Cycle Support/PCS

Not everyone can get SERMs. This method is not as good as above, but is still much better than nothing.

Week 1: IBE Formex 50mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)
Week 2: IBE Formex 50mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)
Week 3: IBE Formex 25mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)
Week 4: IBE Formex 25mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS) "


Is Formex + CS better than Formex +PCS, or should both be used?
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Most people would say use the PCS for sure and a lot of those people will tell you it's a good idea to use CS in PCT as well as on cycle. If you just use one I'd say PCS but I think using both together is a good idea.

Before following this exact protocol I would do a little more research. There are a lot of ideas about what's best for PCT and you need to DECIDE FOR YOURSELF what will work best, not just follow someone's advice.

For instance, many people (including AI's reps) will tell you that PCS should be started in week three of PCT. I'm not telling you which is right/wrong. I'm just saying to learn as much as you can and decide for yourself. There are a lot of opinions from smart dudes who give conflicting advice. If you follow blindly you're basically guessing. Your PCT should be an educated decision made by YOU with the advice of others.
 
^X2....everyone has a different opinion. With orals the problem can be solved with more than one remedy
 
I want to start this cycle in 10 days, but I'm having trouble getting my hands on a SERM...if anyone can help PM please...

Cycle:
p-plex: 20/20/30/30
m-drol: 0/ 0/ 0/ 10/ 20 / 30
CS
milk thistle---2 grams of 80% Extract

PCT:
Nolva- 30/ 20/ 20/ 10
CS
Formex-50/50/25/25
milk thistle---1 - 2 grams of 80% Extract

feel free to critique
 
DeFit said:
I want to start this cycle in 10 days, but I'm having trouble getting my hands on a SERM...if anyone can help PM please...

Cycle:
p-plex: 20/20/30/30
m-drol: 0/ 0/ 0/ 10/ 20 / 30
CS
milk thistle---2 grams of 80% Extract

PCT:
Nolva- 30/ 20/ 20/ 10
CS
Formex-50/50/25/25
milk thistle---1 - 2 grams of 80% Extract

feel free to critique
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I'm not genius but I'd start off a cycle with Mdrol than Pplex. Your PCT looks a little weak to me
 
DeFit said:
I want to start this cycle in 10 days, but I'm having trouble getting my hands on a SERM...if anyone can help PM please...

Cycle:
p-plex: 20/20/30/30
m-drol: 0/ 0/ 0/ 10/ 20 / 30
CS
milk thistle---2 grams of 80% Extract

PCT:
Nolva- 30/ 20/ 20/ 10
CS
Formex-50/50/25/25
milk thistle---1 - 2 grams of 80% Extract

feel free to critique
Click to expand...

I'd swap the Mdrol and p-plex as well. Start out with the mdrol.

I would also go for a 40/30/20/10 Nolva run at least as well. If you can't, just be sure to never forget to take the formex.
 
Hello, Im a lurker here. Im going to be started this cycle soon, and just wanted to make sure everything was in check:

pre-load: AI cycle support

on cycle:
epistane 20/30/30/30 (maybe 40 last few days)
Formex 25mg
ai cycle support

PCT
formex 50/50/25/25
AI PCS or Reversitol


I think i have everything in check, and just wanted to see if adding in Androstenetrione during pct would be good?
 
calcaneous said:
Hello, Im a lurker here. Im going to be started this cycle soon, and just wanted to make sure everything was in check:

pre-load: AI cycle support

on cycle:
epistane 20/30/30/30 (maybe 40 last few days)
Formex 25mg
ai cycle support

PCT
formex 50/50/25/25
AI PCS or Reversitol


I think i have everything in check, and just wanted to see if adding in Androstenetrione during pct would be good?
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I don't think you need to use Formex on cycle with epi because it doesn't aromatize. Usually people use AIs on cycle for things that aromatize.
 
true, Im using Formex for my PCT...and maybe Reversitol, not sure if Formex will be enough of a test booster
 
LAGear said:
I don't think you need to use Formex on cycle with epi because it doesn't aromatize. Usually people use AIs on cycle for things that aromatize.
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alright, so just save it for PCT? Im def. thinking about using just PCS combined with CS for my pct along with formex.
 
calcaneous said:
alright, so just save it for PCT? Im def. thinking about using just PCS combined with CS for my pct along with formex.
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Conventional wisdom says save the Formex for PCT.

What you're planning is the MINIMUM PCT and I don't know that I'd want to use the minimum for something like epi.

Most would recommend adding a natty test booster. Some would recommend a cortisol blocker too.

And I would urge you to use a SERM with epi. The landscape is littered with epi cycle disasters. But I'm conservative, I even use a SERM for h-drol because I'd rather be safe than sorry and if you use Torem there's practically no downside.

If you're prone to MPB you might want to use some Rogaine and Nizoral because epi will cause shedding if you're prone.
 
calcaneous said:
Hello, Im a lurker here. Im going to be started this cycle soon, and just wanted to make sure everything was in check:

pre-load: AI cycle support

on cycle:
epistane 20/30/30/30 (maybe 40 last few days)
Formex 25mg
ai cycle support

PCT
formex 50/50/25/25
AI PCS or Reversitol


I think i have everything in check, and just wanted to see if adding in Androstenetrione during pct would be good?
Click to expand...

Looks good but I agree with the fact you dont need the formex during cycle with Epi. With wet compounds though, it's a must.

Formex is good at boosting natural testosterone aside from just being an AI. It boosts free testosterone through lowering SHBG as well as being a mild 5a-reductase inhibitor, allowing less testosterone to convert to DHT and more to stay as testosterone.
 
Natty, Im going to use Formex in my PCT, but wasn't sure if I should use another test booster?? I had either Diesel Test or Reversitol in mind
 
KgTomCat said:
Natty, Im going to use Formex in my PCT, but wasn't sure if I should use another test booster?? I had either Diesel Test or Reversitol in mind
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I think Reversitol has a few other AI's in it. I wouldnt use any more. I think a lot of people stack Formex with DTHC because it has no AI's, if i'm not mistaken. You can take another natty test booster, just make sure it's not one that boosts test because it is another AI. I always recommend Divanex.
 
o, Im not sure which are natty or which aren't. Ive never heard of Divanex, I have some extra DHEA that I was going to use to help with lethargy if it becomes an issue, never used DTHC either :(
 
nattydisaster said:
I think Reversitol has a few other AI's in it. I wouldnt use any more. I think a lot of people stack Formex with DTHC because it has no AI's, if i'm not mistaken. You can take another natty test booster, just make sure it's not one that boosts test because it is another AI. I always recommend Divanex.
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Yeah, I wouldn't run Formex + Reversitol because they're both AI's.

Lately it seems like Formex and Reversitol are the most popular AI's. I've not heard many negative comments about either one so you can't go wrong either way. I would personally use Formex though if it's in stock anywhere.

DTHC does not have any AI properties so if you want to run a separate test booster that would be my choice based user feedback. If you are going to run PCS that has test boosting components as well so with Formex + PCS + DTHC you'll be tripled up in that department. That's what I'm doing in my current PCT (plus Torem) and it's going smoothly.
 
LAGear said:
Conventional wisdom says save the Formex for PCT.

What you're planning is the MINIMUM PCT and I don't know that I'd want to use the minimum for something like epi.

Most would recommend adding a natty test booster. Some would recommend a cortisol blocker too.

And I would urge you to use a SERM with epi. The landscape is littered with epi cycle disasters. But I'm conservative, I even use a SERM for h-drol because I'd rather be safe than sorry and if you use Torem there's practically no downside.

If you're prone to MPB you might want to use some Rogaine and Nizoral because epi will cause shedding if you're prone.
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I can not really find a serm. I don't trust ordering online and my gym has a lot fo undercover cops. Three guys were already busted for trying to sell.

I think im going to do this for PCT:

AI Post Cycle Support
AI Cycle support
Formex 50/50/25/25
diesel test hardcore ?

any good? im not going to order epi till i get my pct completely correct.
 
calcaneous said:
I can not really find a serm. I don't trust ordering online and my gym has a lot fo undercover cops. Three guys were already busted for trying to sell.

I think im going to do this for PCT:

AI Post Cycle Support
AI Cycle support
Formex 50/50/25/25
diesel test hardcore ?

any good? im not going to order epi till i get my pct completely correct.
Click to expand...

SERM's aren't illegal so ordering online is about as big a deal as purchasing the current supplements you have listed above. Get a SERM or just don't take epi if you want to keep it simple.
 
calcaneous said:
I can not really find a serm. I don't trust ordering online and my gym has a lot fo undercover cops. Three guys were already busted for trying to sell.

I think im going to do this for PCT:

AI Post Cycle Support
AI Cycle support
Formex 50/50/25/25
diesel test hardcore ?

any good? im not going to order epi till i get my pct completely correct.
Click to expand...

Why don't you trust buying online? There are reputable and reliable websites where you can legally buy a SERM. You're not doing anything illegal. Besides, what do you think undercover cops are going to do, follow you home from the gym and watch you dose the SERM?

If you think you should use a SERM then if you live in the US there's no need not to use one. If you think that OTC is better then using a SERM then you've got nothing to worry about. Personally, I wouldn't use anything without Torem for PCT, but on this website that puts me in the minority.
 
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