The Official OL UK Ghar1ne Q&A

[kboxer7]

what about something to manipulate estrogen such as arimistane, inhibit-e or exotherm? wouldnt that help too with water weight since they tend to dry you out

Certainly would, but I know muay thai is well versed in AIs already so I left them out.

OL has El1minate (arimistane) at an outstanding value per caps in the bottle for others interested. Letrone did a decent job of drying me out at 2 caps/day as well. And inhibit-E gets good feedback too.

And of course there are always RC options.

 

[digitalpimp]

Dandelion Root

 

[CJNator]

Certainly would, but I know muay thai is well versed in AIs already so I left them out.

OL has El1minate (arimistane) at an outstanding value per caps in the bottle for others interested. Letrone did a decent job of drying me out at 2 caps/day as well. And inhibit-E gets good feedback too.

And of course there are always RC options.

I was going to say that, Letrone dries me out good and so did arimistane(was lower bf when I took it).

 

[chedapalooza]

I'll be on letrone with ghar1ne soon so I'll post feedback

 

[ericool007]

I'll be on letrone with ghar1ne soon so I'll post feedback

let me know, i have a feeling pairing it with something such as letrone, exotherm, arimistane, formestane or just about any AI would be the best way to go.

 

[kboxer7]

let me know, i have a feeling pairing it with something such as letrone, exotherm, arimistane, formestane or just about any AI would be the best way to go.

There is some (not directly relevant to healthy males) research out there that GH can increase SBGH and thus free T. If that was the case, an AI on top of that might be nice in addition to it's drying effects.

I'm still looking into the MOA on that though so don't hold me accountable just yet haha.

 

[muay thai]

is letrone stronger than el1minate? i had prettty decent results with el1minate, ive ran prob 3 bottles since last year

 

[kboxer7]

The Official OL UK Ghar1ne Q&A

is letrone stronger than el1minate? i had prettty decent results with el1minate, ive ran prob 3 bottles since last year

BLR touts it as being THE strongest out there.

However, anecdotally, I am not yet convinced. I've ran two bottles with dosing ranging from 1-3 caps per day and all while natty. Still didn't feel like it crushed my estro tbh.

No Estro sides. Dried me out decently and I seemed to lean out a bit. Noticed achy joints once at 3 caps but I couldn't replicate that when I tried bumping back up to 3 caps a second time.

Our boy Cheda is getting bloodwork while on Letrone soonish so hang tight for the lab work to really see what it does on paper.

As for El1minate (Arimistane), at least it is consistent in what to expect. It's tried and true in that regard. Just make sure to split dosing 2x/day due to the shorter half life.

 

[edje007]

My first week on ghar1ne and Cardar1ne. Sleep has improved and getting tighter by the day.

So far 10mg of ghar1ne is much better than the 2 other brands I've run on 30mg.

Yeah buddy! !!!

 

[muay thai]

BLR touts it as being THE strongest out there.

However, anecdotally, I am not yet convinced. I've ran two bottles with dosing ranging from 1-3 caps per day and all while natty. Still didn't feel like it crushed my estro tbh.

No Estro sides. Dried me out decently and I seemed to lean out a bit. Noticed achy joints once at 3 caps but I couldn't replicate that when I tried bumping back up to 3 caps a second time.

Our boy Cheda is getting bloodwork while on Letrone soonish so hang tight for the lab work to really see what it does on paper.

As for El1minate (Arimistane), at least it is consistent in what to expect. It's tried and true in that regard. Just make sure to split dosing 2x/day due to the shorter half life.

thanks brother, i look forward to his labs! I am just going to order a few el1minate to help reduce water levels. i have stronger ai and serm for the necessary stuff, but ive stacked el1minate along side nolva etc before and it worked great dude . i am using raloxifene and exemestane

also tudca is an amazing product from OL.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Just started Ghar1ne on the 1st. I'll update along the way and at some point during an extended run will get blood work for GH done.

 

[kboxer7]

Just started Ghar1ne on the 1st. I'll update along the way and at some point during an extended run will get blood work for GH done.

Reps for bloodwork.

Looking forward to seeing how Ghar1ne treats you.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Reps for bloodwork.

Looking forward to seeing how Ghar1ne treats you.

I don't have a direct baseline from right before starting, but I have labs on GH on I think 3 separate occasions (may be more -- I have to check my files) where it's always only been at 0.01 on a blood draw (with the exception being when it was raised via provocation for the insulin tolerance test).

 

[chedapalooza]

BLR touts it as being THE strongest out there.

However, anecdotally, I am not yet convinced. I've ran two bottles with dosing ranging from 1-3 caps per day and all while natty. Still didn't feel like it crushed my estro tbh.

No Estro sides. Dried me out decently and I seemed to lean out a bit. Noticed achy joints once at 3 caps but I couldn't replicate that when I tried bumping back up to 3 caps a second time.

Our boy Cheda is getting bloodwork while on Letrone soonish so hang tight for the lab work to really see what it does on paper.

As for El1minate (Arimistane), at least it is consistent in what to expect. It's tried and true in that regard. Just make sure to split dosing 2x/day due to the shorter half life.

Yea I will have blood work after 4 weeks on letrone. Started e2 is 38. Hoping to get down to 30.

In march-April, 6 weeks of inhibit e dropped my e2 13 points!

Very excited to see what letrone can do.

El1minate is great for controlling cortisol and water weight. Based off past bloods I wouldn't feel comfortable using it as a solo AI.. But something like letrone or a more direct AI +25mg el1m could be real nice

 

[mechka_grizli]

BLR touts it as being THE strongest out there.

However, anecdotally, I am not yet convinced. I've ran two bottles with dosing ranging from 1-3 caps per day and all while natty. Still didn't feel like it crushed my estro tbh.

No Estro sides. Dried me out decently and I seemed to lean out a bit. Noticed achy joints once at 3 caps but I couldn't replicate that when I tried bumping back up to 3 caps a second time.

Our boy Cheda is getting bloodwork while on Letrone soonish so hang tight for the lab work to really see what it does on paper.

As for El1minate (Arimistane), at least it is consistent in what to expect. It's tried and true in that regard. Just make sure to split dosing 2x/day due to the shorter half life.

No way arimistane beats out Letrone. If by tried and true you mean cortisol and good diuretic properties then yeah. But I would not use arimistane in a situation where estro was high

 

[Joedoubledose]

Everybody on the gharine train I'm missing out !

 

[kboxer7]

No way arimistane beats out Letrone. If by tried and true you mean cortisol and good diuretic properties then yeah. But I would not use arimistane in a situation where estro was high

Never said it did.

Arim has been around the block and tested in many scenarios by a plethora of users over an extended period of time. Its effects are easy to ascertain at various dosages because of this. That is what I meant by "tried and true."

I don't think I'd use anything otc as my primary AI if HIGH estro or estro sensitivity was a major concern, but sups like Letrone and Arim certainly have their place. I'm hoping once Chedda gets his bloodwork done it will yield more insight into the power of Letrone vs other AIs. Personally, I'm hoping Letrone shines and crushes E hard (sorry for wishing achy joints on you chedda lol).

I also realize some bloodwork does exist for Letrone, but the scenarios in which it was tested do not meet my personal needs so that makes it harder for me to make an apples to apples comparison. That and we have NO CLUE as to the half life or whether it is suicidal, two aspects that I like knowing with my AIs.

P.S. If you have access to or additional bloodwork done on Letrone that I have not yet seen I would certainly appreciate you sharing that with me.

 

[crowbar46]

Is there some reason people want to use an AI with Gharine--did I miss something? Gharine only mildly and transiently raises prolactin and estrogen.

Why would anyone, under any circumstances, want to "crush estrogen"? In the long run this is a VERY bad idea. Ai's, one of the most abused substances by recreational lifters.

 

[kboxer7]

Is there some reason people want to use an AI with Gharine--did I miss something? Gharine only mildly and transiently raises prolactin and estrogen.

Why would anyone, under any circumstances, want to "crush estrogen"? In the long run this is a VERY bad idea. Ai's, one of the most abused substances by recreational lifters.

I wouldn't particularly recommend it at all. It was brought up in the context of being a tool to reduce the bloating/water retention that can be caused by Ghar1ne.

 

[ericool007]

Is there some reason people want to use an AI with Gharine--did I miss something? Gharine only mildly and transiently raises prolactin and estrogen.

Why would anyone, under any circumstances, want to "crush estrogen"? In the long run this is a VERY bad idea. Ai's, one of the most abused substances by recreational lifters.

To reduce bloat and water weight. I just started ghar1ne at 10 mgs last night i plan on running just 10 for a month or two then when i up it to 20 i will add in either letrone or exotherm probably not neccesary but if exotherm is anything like formeron use to be it definitly seems like a win win to me.

 

[chedapalooza]

To reduce bloat and water weight. I just started ghar1ne at 10 mgs last night i plan on running just 10 for a month or two then when i up it to 20 i will add in either letrone or exotherm probably not neccesary but if exotherm is anything like formeron use to be it definitly seems like a win win to me.

I will be two weeks into letrone when I start ghar1ne. I plan on sticking with 10mg for a month, 20mg for a month, and then 30mg for a month as long as each level treats me well, I wouldn't be opposed to lowering if needed, but I will not jump the gun in raising regardless.

 

[crowbar46]

To reduce bloat and water weight. I just started ghar1ne at 10 mgs last night i plan on running just 10 for a month or two then when i up it to 20 i will add in either letrone or exotherm probably not neccesary but if exotherm is anything like formeron use to be it definitly seems like a win win to me.

The problem with this is that GH doesn't cause water retention through raising estrogen. The most common theory is that GH increases the production of ADH (anti diuretic hormone; made in the hypothalamus and released by the pituitary gland).

 

[chedapalooza]

The problem with this is that GH doesn't cause water retention through raising estrogen. The most common theory is that GH increases the production of ADH (anti diuretic hormone; made in the hypothalamus and released by the pituitary gland).

Right

 

[kboxer7]

The problem with this is that GH doesn't cause water retention through raising estrogen. The most common theory is that GH increases the production of ADH (anti diuretic hormone; made in the hypothalamus and released by the pituitary gland).

While true, that doesn't mean that attacking water weight via a different MOA would be futile.

Again, I'm not saying running an AI is the best approach. And in fact, I would see it as a very temporary solution given that MK needs to typically be ran for months to get the best effect and I wouldn't recommend running an AI over 8 weeks (unless in a trt situation).

Earlier in this thread (or another, can't remember) I provided a number of natural diuretics as well as suggested limiting sodium and increasing pottassium as much better means of combating water weight with MK.

 

[Hastur]

Dandelion Root

I've been using Dandelion Root tea, actually. It's had a noticeable diuretic effect, and I would recommend it.

No way arimistane beats out Letrone. If by tried and true you mean cortisol and good diuretic properties then yeah. But I would not use arimistane in a situation where estro was high

Letrone isn't sounding like it's THAT effective actually.

anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/272396-best-otc-ai-2.html#post5069398

Is there some reason people want to use an AI with Gharine--did I miss something? Gharine only mildly and transiently raises prolactin and estrogen.

Why would anyone, under any circumstances, want to "crush estrogen"? In the long run this is a VERY bad idea. Ai's, one of the most abused substances by recreational lifters.

Agreed. I wouldn't use an AI specifically to address water retention from a compound like MK-677. Now, if someone was prone to higher estrogen, there's nothing wrong with controlling it, but I wouldn't recommend an AI specifically for MK-677.

The problem with this is that GH doesn't cause water retention through raising estrogen. The most common theory is that GH increases the production of ADH (anti diuretic hormone; made in the hypothalamus and released by the pituitary gland).

Exactly, water retention from GH is typically regarded as being caused by Vasopressin, also known as arginine vasopressin (AVP), antidiuretic hormone (ADH), or argipressin. I'm not 100% certain how to combat this, besides lower sodium, high potassium, increased water intake, and over the counter/natural diuretics. But an AI really wouldn't be my first choice.

 

[hamdysayed]

On page 7 tryna play catch up..... thanks Hastur

 

[StanleyG]

I did a write up for another forum some years ago on GH and one side effect that was addressed was water retention. Long and short of my research: Low dose daily aspirin therapy is effective at reducing this side effect due to its ability to reduce the effects of vasopressin.
I personally would not use an AI type product in an effort to reduce water retention and subsequently lowering e2 unless my e2 was elevated in the first place.

 

[StanleyG]

Oh it shoukd probably be mentioned as well that the increase in water retention caused by MK677 that is being attributed to increased GH is in fact not likely to be due to an increase in GH at all. It is most likely due to ghrelins increase in synaptic output to vasopresssin neurons. The whole blaming it on GH made little to no sense to me as having taken GH I realized the amount one needs to take (of pharma gh) to experience the fluid retention on the level users of MK were reporting and there is no way MK would come even close to increasing GH to this degree. This had me seeking another explanation and looking to ghrelin and its effects on vasopressin was the next natural step and I feel that what I just stated is much more likely the reason for the increase in fluid retention.

 

[crowbar46]

Stanley, to be honest I also wondered if MK could produce enough of an increase in GH to be responsible for the water retention, as most people experience serious water retention with pharmaceutical GH at 4 or 5 I.u.'s/day or so.

Thanks much for the tip. I will begin low dose aspirin tonight.

 

[rascal14]

Stanley, to be honest I also wondered if MK could produce enough of an increase in GH to be responsible for the water retention, as most people experience serious water retention with pharmaceutical GH at 4 or 5 I.u.'s/day or so.

Thanks much for the tip. I will begin low dose aspirin tonight.

Let us know how it works!

 

[hamdysayed]

There is some (not directly relevant to healthy males) research out there that GH can increase SBGH and thus free T. If that was the case, an AI on top of that might be nice in addition to it's drying effects.

I'm still looking into the MOA on that though so don't hold me accountable just yet haha.

Any in depth info about mk677 and it effects on shbg?

 

[StanleyG]

There is some (not directly relevant to healthy males) research out there that GH can increase SBGH and thus free T. If that was the case, an AI on top of that might be nice in addition to it's drying effects.

I'm still looking into the MOA on that though so don't hold me accountable just yet haha.

An increase in SHBG (its SHBG not SBGH) results in a decrease in free test, not an increase. Sexual Hormone Binding Globulin binds to the hormone , rendering less of it active. The more SHBG, the less active hormone.

 

[hamdysayed]

An increase in SHBG (its SHBG not SBGH) results in a decrease in free test, not an increase. Sexual Hormone Binding Globulin binds to the hormone , rendering less of it active. The more SHBG, the less active hormone.

Any info how mk677 effects it?

 

[muay thai]

I've been using Dandelion Root tea, actually. It's had a noticeable diuretic effect, and I would recommend it.



Letrone isn't sounding like it's THAT effective actually.

anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/272396-best-otc-ai-2.html#post5069398



Agreed. I wouldn't use an AI specifically to address water retention from a compound like MK-677. Now, if someone was prone to higher estrogen, there's nothing wrong with controlling it, but I wouldn't recommend an AI specifically for MK-677.



Exactly, water retention from GH is typically regarded as being caused by Vasopressin, also known as arginine vasopressin (AVP), antidiuretic hormone (ADH), or argipressin. I'm not 100% certain how to combat this, besides lower sodium, high potassium, increased water intake, and over the counter/natural diuretics. But an AI really wouldn't be my first choice.

Would potassium contained Hydro3 be suitable ?

 

[Hastur]

Would potassium contained Hydro3 be suitable ?

No, sadly it's not enough to really elicit the results we're looking for. You can take potassium supplements, but I prefer going with more whole foods like broccoli that are rich with potassium, and using Lite Salt on my food instead of regular table salt, things like this.

 

[kboxer7]

An increase in SHBG (its SHBG not SBGH) results in a decrease in free test, not an increase. Sexual Hormone Binding Globulin binds to the hormone , rendering less of it active. The more SHBG, the less active hormone.

Seems I got a bit dyslexic on that post when typing. You are indeed correct. Thank you for the revision.

 

[StanleyG]

Any info how mk677 effects it?

Not directly- no. At least I do not have any direct info. It (MK677) definitely increases IGF-BP3 which is a binding protein very similar to SHBG so anecdotally one might expect to see an increase in SHBG with MK-677 administration. This would be speculation however. Also just because there may be an increase (lets say there is) who is to say it is of any clinical significance whatsoever?
Something else to keep in mind along these lines. I mentioned IGF-BP3 being increased and it being a similar binding protein to SHBG so there may be an increase in SHBG along with BP3. Well BP3 is necessary to not only shuttle IGF to cells but to activate the IGF receptor so in part this would be an effect of MK677 that yields a distinctive benefit to the user.
Its all very interesting and what I posted above requires some speculation so it is far from definitive yet it is very interesting stuff. To ultimately answer your question aside from the possible effect I just mentioned, which is far from a proven one, I have no idea how MK effects or impacts SHBG but if I had to make an educated guess if it impacts it at all it probably slightly increases SHBG if anything.

 

[StanleyG]

Seems I got a bit dyslexic on that post when typing. You are indeed correct. Thank you for the revision.

Easy to do with that one for sure!

 

[crowbar46]

An increase in SHBG (its SHBG not SBGH) results in a decrease in free test, not an increase. Sexual Hormone Binding Globulin binds to the hormone , rendering less of it active. The more SHBG, the less active hormone.[/QUOTE

]From the Iron Mag research article:




When discussing IGF-1 within the context of muscle growth, most tend to focus on the level of this hormone in the bloodstream, while paying little to no attention to those factors which influence the ability of IGF-1 to do its job. One of these is IGF-1 binding protein 3, or IGFBP-3, for short. While low dosages of MK-677 (5 mg/day) do not increase levels of this protein, normal dosages (25 mg/day and above) do. For many of you reading this, your initial reaction may be to think of this as a negative trait, due to misconceptions surrounding the role of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) in testosterone metabolism, but the truth is that elevations of IGFBP-3 (as well as SHBG, for that matter) are a good thing.

Let’s use testosterone as an example. Once testosterone has entered the bloodstream, it resides in one of two forms—in either a free or bound state. Free testosterone circulates as is, while bound testosterone is testosterone which has been bound to SHBG. For decades, most people thought, even the medical community, that free testosterone was all that mattered, as bound testosterone was believed to be unusable by the body; held hostage by SHBG. We now know we were wrong, as SHBG is not the enemy after all, but functions as transporter protein, helping to usher testosterone to the receptor site where it can then perform its actions.

In the same way, IGFBP-3 is the main carrier of IGF-1, but IGFBP-3 is more than just a transporter. It also helps prolong the life of IGF-1 in the body. In other words, the more IGFBP-3 present, the better. So, MK-677 not only increases growth hormone and IGF-1 levels, but also IGFBP-3, further potentiating the positive effects of IGF-1 on muscle growth.

 

[Hastur]

From the Iron Mag research article:

When discussing IGF-1 within the context of muscle growth, most tend to focus on the level of this hormone in the bloodstream, while paying little to no attention to those factors which influence the ability of IGF-1 to do its job. One of these is IGF-1 binding protein 3, or IGFBP-3, for short. While low dosages of MK-677 (5 mg/day) do not increase levels of this protein, normal dosages (25 mg/day and above) do. For many of you reading this, your initial reaction may be to think of this as a negative trait, due to misconceptions surrounding the role of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) in testosterone metabolism, but the truth is that elevations of IGFBP-3 (as well as SHBG, for that matter) are a good thing.

Let’s use testosterone as an example. Once testosterone has entered the bloodstream, it resides in one of two forms—in either a free or bound state. Free testosterone circulates as is, while bound testosterone is testosterone which has been bound to SHBG. For decades, most people thought, even the medical community, that free testosterone was all that mattered, as bound testosterone was believed to be unusable by the body; held hostage by SHBG. We now know we were wrong, as SHBG is not the enemy after all, but functions as transporter protein, helping to usher testosterone to the receptor site where it can then perform its actions.

In the same way, IGFBP-3 is the main carrier of IGF-1, but IGFBP-3 is more than just a transporter. It also helps prolong the life of IGF-1 in the body. In other words, the more IGFBP-3 present, the better. So, MK-677 not only increases growth hormone and IGF-1 levels, but also IGFBP-3, further potentiating the positive effects of IGF-1 on muscle growth.

Excellent post, excellent information. I was actually going to post just now about your stance on Melatonin and Somatostatin, I spent more time reading about it yesterday. I'm starting to think perhaps the Huperzine A and EGCG stack should be forgotten and Melatonin be recommended in it's place. It appears to inhibit somatostatin, increase growth hormone release possibly independent of that mechanism, and would encourage sleep rather than hinder it, unlike Huperzine A. You've been stacking Melatonin and MK-677 for a short while now, yes?

 

[crowbar46]

Excellent post, excellent information. I was actually going to post just now about your stance on Melatonin and Somatostatin, I spent more time reading about it yesterday. I'm starting to think perhaps the Huperzine A and EGCG stack should be forgotten and Melatonin be recommended in it's place. It appears to inhibit somatostatin, increase growth hormone release possibly independent of that mechanism, and would encourage sleep rather than hinder it, unlike Huperzine A. You've been stacking Melatonin and MK-677 for a short while now, yes?

Yes, and I couldn't be happier!

 

[Hastur]

Yes, and I couldn't be happier!

Music to my ears. I should be starting Ghar1ne in a week or two during my PCT, and I grabbed 2 bottles of Schiff Melatonin Ultra at CostCo the other day. The more I read about the possible synergy between Melatonin and MK-677, the more I think it's the way to go over Huperzine-A. I can't find hard data that would allow me to compare Melatonin to Huperzine-A as far their abilities to inhibit somatostatin, but in the end, if one makes sleeping/functioning more difficult and the other doesn't, it's a a pretty simple choice.

 

[hamdysayed]

Hmm so 10 mg minimum or there is other dose?
And how about hupa + green tea am and melatonin and green tea pm?

 

[StanleyG]

An increase in SHBG (its SHBG not SBGH) results in a decrease in free test, not an increase. Sexual Hormone Binding Globulin binds to the hormone , rendering less of it active. The more SHBG, the less active hormone.[/QUOTE

]From the Iron Mag research article:




When discussing IGF-1 within the context of muscle growth, most tend to focus on the level of this hormone in the bloodstream, while paying little to no attention to those factors which influence the ability of IGF-1 to do its job. One of these is IGF-1 binding protein 3, or IGFBP-3, for short. While low dosages of MK-677 (5 mg/day) do not increase levels of this protein, normal dosages (25 mg/day and above) do. For many of you reading this, your initial reaction may be to think of this as a negative trait, due to misconceptions surrounding the role of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) in testosterone metabolism, but the truth is that elevations of IGFBP-3 (as well as SHBG, for that matter) are a good thing.

Let’s use testosterone as an example. Once testosterone has entered the bloodstream, it resides in one of two forms—in either a free or bound state. Free testosterone circulates as is, while bound testosterone is testosterone which has been bound to SHBG. For decades, most people thought, even the medical community, that free testosterone was all that mattered, as bound testosterone was believed to be unusable by the body; held hostage by SHBG. We now know we were wrong, as SHBG is not the enemy after all, but functions as transporter protein, helping to usher testosterone to the receptor site where it can then perform its actions.

In the same way, IGFBP-3 is the main carrier of IGF-1, but IGFBP-3 is more than just a transporter. It also helps prolong the life of IGF-1 in the body. In other words, the more IGFBP-3 present, the better. So, MK-677 not only increases growth hormone and IGF-1 levels, but also IGFBP-3, further potentiating the positive effects of IGF-1 on muscle growth.

Im sorry can you explain to me how this article is a response to my post you quoted?
The article does seem to coincide with my last few posts as far as effect on IGF-BP3 and how that is a positive effect of MK but I am not sure how it applies to my statement of increased SHBG decreases free test.
Thanks

 

[Hastur]

Hmm so 10 mg minimum or there is other dose?
And how about hupa + green tea am and melatonin and green tea pm?

I have 3mg caps of Melatonin, so thats what I'll be using. I don't particularly like the idea of megadosing Melatonin. So until I read something that convices me to run a higher dosage, I'll be sticking with 3mg Melatonin with my 10mg Ghar1ne to start with. And if you can personally tolerate such a combination of Hup/GT am and Melatonin/MK pm, it would likely prove synergistic.

 

[StanleyG]

What dose of Melatonin do you guys think will inhibit GHIH effects? All I have read indicates that acute melatonin administration is required to achieve this. Have you guys read that this effect is achieved with reasonable doses of melatonin? If so that would be great and Id love to see the information.

 

[crowbar46]

"Sexual Hormone Binding Globulin binds to the hormone, RENDERING LESS OF IT ACTIVE. The more SHBG, the less active hormone."

Paragraph two of the article I quoted would seem to directly contradict the idea that SHBG makes less of the testosterone active.

 

[crowbar46]

the only research I've found used 10 mg. doses of Melatonin. It showed significant inhibition of somatostatin.

 

[hamdysayed]

Thanks for replies, I stopped taking hup a for 2 days to see if any benefits or anything that I'm missing out on or it's messing me up, not a whole lot of difference in sleep.
and I think I'll continue to take hup a first thing in the morning with my coffee cup I love the focus and feeling like extra alerted or whatever u call it.
also I will be testing 10 mg melatonin pm and stick to my hup a am

 

[StanleyG]

"Sexual Hormone Binding Globulin binds to the hormone, RENDERING LESS OF IT ACTIVE. The more SHBG, the less active hormone."

Paragraph two of the article I quoted would seem to directly contradict the idea that SHBG makes less of the testosterone active.

You are reading it wrong. SHBG absolutely renders less of it active. That is not even up for debate - it is a fact and the reason there are 2 measurements of testosterone: Free and Total test.
All paragraph 2 is saying is that while it does render less of the hormone active its effects are not all bad as in addition to doing that it also is responsible for helping to shuttle test to the available receptors.